Military Law

(On Campus Interviews, Summer Associate positions, Firm Reviews, Tips, ...)
Forum rules
Anonymous Posting

Anonymous posting is only appropriate when you are revealing sensitive employment related information about a firm, job, etc. You may anonymously respond on topic to these threads. Unacceptable uses include: harassing another user, joking around, testing the feature, or other things that are more appropriate in the lounge.

Failure to follow these rules will get you outed, warned, or banned.
wreckem
Posts: 94
Joined: Fri Oct 24, 2008 8:32 pm

Re: Military Law

Postby wreckem » Thu Jul 23, 2009 1:24 am

ArkansasFan wrote:
Esquire wrote:
H.E. Pennypacker wrote:For those of you serving or with summer experience, what is the age range like in the JAG corps? Does it skew younger, meaning someone graduating at ~30 would be out of place relative to other career options?

I wouldn't be afraid to commission at 25 or 35. There's a large range of ages. I've encountered many here on base. I wouldn't think much of it at all.


The only thing I would worry about is age associated with rank. Just as an example, not having anything to do with law school or JAG, I'd hate being say a 30 year old second lieutenant/ensign.


Fortunately thats not really an issue. JAGs don't start at second lieutenant/ensign. They start out as 0-2 and are typically promoted to 0-3 6 months after active duty commissioning. Promotion to 0-3 typically happens shortly after graduation from basic legal school.

wreckem
Posts: 94
Joined: Fri Oct 24, 2008 8:32 pm

Re: Military Law

Postby wreckem » Thu Jul 23, 2009 1:32 am

J-Rod wrote:
wreckem wrote:I'm not sure if the Army program that gives $60k is any better than the LARP offered for public service.

IBR/LARP in my opinion will be a superior choice if you plan to be in for 10 years. Unless you have private loans.

With IBR you dont have to pay taxes on the amount forgiven. With the $60k you have to pay taxes on it. Again I feel the Army's program is only useful if you have private loans. I'm not suprised other branches aren't following the Army's path.


they offer a way to take your private loans and consolidate them into a package that qualifies for the LRAP though


The Federal Loan Forgiveness program requires loans be eligible for Direct Consolidation. You have to do a direct consolidation with the Dept. of Ed. Private loans do not qualify for that. They have to be govt. backed loans. To my knowledge there are no programs that allow you to convert private loans into govt. backed loans. You can add your private loans into the IBR payment calculations, but they are not forgiven.

Or it is possible you might be thinking about the part where traditionally you must have atleast one federal direct loan in order to do direct consolidation. That is wavied for the 10 year public service loan forgiveness program.

User avatar
J-Rod
Posts: 508
Joined: Tue Oct 02, 2007 6:00 pm

Re: Military Law

Postby J-Rod » Thu Jul 23, 2009 8:50 am

wreckem wrote:
J-Rod wrote:
wreckem wrote:I'm not sure if the Army program that gives $60k is any better than the LARP offered for public service.

IBR/LARP in my opinion will be a superior choice if you plan to be in for 10 years. Unless you have private loans.

With IBR you dont have to pay taxes on the amount forgiven. With the $60k you have to pay taxes on it. Again I feel the Army's program is only useful if you have private loans. I'm not suprised other branches aren't following the Army's path.


they offer a way to take your private loans and consolidate them into a package that qualifies for the LRAP though


The Federal Loan Forgiveness program requires loans be eligible for Direct Consolidation. You have to do a direct consolidation with the Dept. of Ed. Private loans do not qualify for that. They have to be govt. backed loans. To my knowledge there are no programs that allow you to convert private loans into govt. backed loans. You can add your private loans into the IBR payment calculations, but they are not forgiven.

Or it is possible you might be thinking about the part where traditionally you must have atleast one federal direct loan in order to do direct consolidation. That is wavied for the 10 year public service loan forgiveness program.


I must have misread. Your stafford and gradplus loans do qualify though correct?

naptime10
Posts: 12
Joined: Sat Jul 11, 2009 11:08 am

Re: Military Law

Postby naptime10 » Thu Jul 23, 2009 9:16 am

Patrick Bateman wrote:
Ryduce wrote:Is JAG selective at all? I heard you have to conduct multiple phone interviews.And you may not get the gig.

And you get promoted to O-3 6 months in right?

That'll put you at about 80k a year with tax free housing plus health benefits and food allowances.Seems like a sweet deal to me.


Air Force is limited to 120 new JAGs every year. Not all new JAGs come from Direct Appointment (seems the most common commissioning source for AF JAG) so there are not a lot of spots. Depending on the year and accessions board, there is only a 7%-11% selection rate.

There are not multiple interviews. You arrange an interview with the Staff Judge Advocate (0-5/0-6 that heads up a Wing's legal office) and based on that, the SJA submits your application package to the accessions board along with his/her recommendation (or lack there of). You are either selected or not based on the board's decision but that is highly influenced by the SJA.

You will be promoted to 0-3 within 6 months of your first day of Commissioned Officer's Training (assuming you are a direct appointment). The Housing Allowance (BAH) can vary tremendously on the location, but if you add up the tax breaks of non-taxed BAH/BAS along with the free healthcare and the like, I feel that $80K number is fair enough. In that the IRS only considers your Basic Pay as taxable income, many JAGs also qualify for their law school's LRAP programs as well as the new federal LRAP program CCRAA. It is not BigLaw market rate, but it's a great bundle of money considering you are also serving your country in uniform.



i grew up a jag brat. unless they changed promotion zones you get picked up for O3 in about 3 years. the pay depends on how long you are an O3. it usually takes around 4 years if i remember correctly to attain the rank of O3--at least in the army. this, however, is subject to change depending on whether you get picked up "below the zone" for early promotion. where did you get your information from?

User avatar
J-Rod
Posts: 508
Joined: Tue Oct 02, 2007 6:00 pm

Re: Military Law

Postby J-Rod » Thu Jul 23, 2009 9:22 am

naptime10 wrote:
Patrick Bateman wrote:
Ryduce wrote:Is JAG selective at all? I heard you have to conduct multiple phone interviews.And you may not get the gig.

And you get promoted to O-3 6 months in right?

That'll put you at about 80k a year with tax free housing plus health benefits and food allowances.Seems like a sweet deal to me.


Air Force is limited to 120 new JAGs every year. Not all new JAGs come from Direct Appointment (seems the most common commissioning source for AF JAG) so there are not a lot of spots. Depending on the year and accessions board, there is only a 7%-11% selection rate.

There are not multiple interviews. You arrange an interview with the Staff Judge Advocate (0-5/0-6 that heads up a Wing's legal office) and based on that, the SJA submits your application package to the accessions board along with his/her recommendation (or lack there of). You are either selected or not based on the board's decision but that is highly influenced by the SJA.

You will be promoted to 0-3 within 6 months of your first day of Commissioned Officer's Training (assuming you are a direct appointment). The Housing Allowance (BAH) can vary tremendously on the location, but if you add up the tax breaks of non-taxed BAH/BAS along with the free healthcare and the like, I feel that $80K number is fair enough. In that the IRS only considers your Basic Pay as taxable income, many JAGs also qualify for their law school's LRAP programs as well as the new federal LRAP program CCRAA. It is not BigLaw market rate, but it's a great bundle of money considering you are also serving your country in uniform.



i grew up a jag brat. unless they changed promotion zones you get picked up for O3 in about 3 years. the pay depends on how long you are an O3. it usually takes around 4 years if i remember correctly to attain the rank of O3--at least in the army. this, however, is subject to change depending on whether you get picked up "below the zone" for early promotion. where did you get your information from?


This information is easily accessible on all of the JAG websites for the different services. It has changed drastically since you were younger. You commission as an O-2, and very quickly get promoted to O-3, they count your 3 years in law school as time in service for promotion purposes only.

User avatar
Patrick Bateman
Posts: 595
Joined: Tue Feb 19, 2008 5:41 pm

Re: Military Law

Postby Patrick Bateman » Thu Jul 23, 2009 9:37 am

naptime10 wrote:
Patrick Bateman wrote:
Ryduce wrote:Is JAG selective at all? I heard you have to conduct multiple phone interviews.And you may not get the gig.

And you get promoted to O-3 6 months in right?

That'll put you at about 80k a year with tax free housing plus health benefits and food allowances.Seems like a sweet deal to me.


Air Force is limited to 120 new JAGs every year. Not all new JAGs come from Direct Appointment (seems the most common commissioning source for AF JAG) so there are not a lot of spots. Depending on the year and accessions board, there is only a 7%-11% selection rate.

There are not multiple interviews. You arrange an interview with the Staff Judge Advocate (0-5/0-6 that heads up a Wing's legal office) and based on that, the SJA submits your application package to the accessions board along with his/her recommendation (or lack there of). You are either selected or not based on the board's decision but that is highly influenced by the SJA.

You will be promoted to 0-3 within 6 months of your first day of Commissioned Officer's Training (assuming you are a direct appointment). The Housing Allowance (BAH) can vary tremendously on the location, but if you add up the tax breaks of non-taxed BAH/BAS along with the free healthcare and the like, I feel that $80K number is fair enough. In that the IRS only considers your Basic Pay as taxable income, many JAGs also qualify for their law school's LRAP programs as well as the new federal LRAP program CCRAA. It is not BigLaw market rate, but it's a great bundle of money considering you are also serving your country in uniform.



i grew up a jag brat. unless they changed promotion zones you get picked up for O3 in about 3 years. the pay depends on how long you are an O3. it usually takes around 4 years if i remember correctly to attain the rank of O3--at least in the army. this, however, is subject to change depending on whether you get picked up "below the zone" for early promotion. where did you get your information from?


Concur with J-Rod.

Promotion to 0-3 is automatic at the 6 month mark. I know this because I just pinned on Captain on 10 July, exactly 6 months after I took my Oath as a 1st Lt.

Even in regular line promotion from 0-2 to 0-3, I don't think there is Below the Zone, as 0-3 is generally automatic barring a huge blemish (Art 15 for DUI, for example) on the officer's record. It's similar to how the promotions for AF enlisted are automatic from E-1 through E-4.

naptime10
Posts: 12
Joined: Sat Jul 11, 2009 11:08 am

Re: Military Law

Postby naptime10 » Thu Jul 23, 2009 9:58 am

J-Rod wrote:
naptime10 wrote:
Patrick Bateman wrote:
Ryduce wrote:Is JAG selective at all? I heard you have to conduct multiple phone interviews.And you may not get the gig.

And you get promoted to O-3 6 months in right?

That'll put you at about 80k a year with tax free housing plus health benefits and food allowances.Seems like a sweet deal to me.


Air Force is limited to 120 new JAGs every year. Not all new JAGs come from Direct Appointment (seems the most common commissioning source for AF JAG) so there are not a lot of spots. Depending on the year and accessions board, there is only a 7%-11% selection rate.

There are not multiple interviews. You arrange an interview with the Staff Judge Advocate (0-5/0-6 that heads up a Wing's legal office) and based on that, the SJA submits your application package to the accessions board along with his/her recommendation (or lack there of). You are either selected or not based on the board's decision but that is highly influenced by the SJA.

You will be promoted to 0-3 within 6 months of your first day of Commissioned Officer's Training (assuming you are a direct appointment). The Housing Allowance (BAH) can vary tremendously on the location, but if you add up the tax breaks of non-taxed BAH/BAS along with the free healthcare and the like, I feel that $80K number is fair enough. In that the IRS only considers your Basic Pay as taxable income, many JAGs also qualify for their law school's LRAP programs as well as the new federal LRAP program CCRAA. It is not BigLaw market rate, but it's a great bundle of money considering you are also serving your country in uniform.



i grew up a jag brat. unless they changed promotion zones you get picked up for O3 in about 3 years. the pay depends on how long you are an O3. it usually takes around 4 years if i remember correctly to attain the rank of O3--at least in the army. this, however, is subject to change depending on whether you get picked up "below the zone" for early promotion. where did you get your information from?


This information is easily accessible on all of the JAG websites for the different services. It has changed drastically since you were younger. You commission as an O-2, and very quickly get promoted to O-3, they count your 3 years in law school as time in service for promotion purposes only.


oh, wow that is interesting. it makes the military not look too bad of a deal for a job out of law school--they pay off your loans as well right? the only thing is you are kind of behind the curve coming out of the military to practice law in the civilian sector right? unless you practice military related law as a civilian?

nickc321
Posts: 9
Joined: Fri Jan 23, 2009 1:14 pm

Re: Military Law

Postby nickc321 » Thu Jul 23, 2009 10:24 am

ArkansasFan wrote:
J-Rod wrote:Bateman, any updates on the AF offering money along the lines of the Army? I know that the CG, Navy, and Marines will not be.


Any reason why they won't be?



The AF is already swamped with highly qualified applicants; I can't imagine them needing to offer any other incentives, but I am keeping my fingers crossed that they follow suit. I had not even entertained the idea of going Army until they announced the new loan repayment plan. I am now planning to apply for the next Army board; all I need is my in person interview as all the other documents are set and ready to go.

User avatar
Patrick Bateman
Posts: 595
Joined: Tue Feb 19, 2008 5:41 pm

Re: Military Law

Postby Patrick Bateman » Thu Jul 23, 2009 1:22 pm

Naptime:

It might do you some good to read through all the previous posts on this thread. A lot of these issues have been already covered in detail.

Army is offering greater incentives at the moment but there is no "loan payback" program with any service. Beyond the incentives, there are also LRAP programs from law schools that come into play with JAG service. Also consider the CCRA.

To say JAGs are beyond the curve in the civilian sector is incorrect. Army and USAF JAGs practice in civil law areas in addition to all the military justice work. JAG will do little for someone looking to lateral into corporate transactional work. Beyond that, there are plenty of lateral oppurtunities, both in criminal and civil work, if a JAG decides to punch out and go civilian. Many JAGs stay working as Feds after the leave military service but the litigation skills honed in uniform provide quite a lot of opportunity in the private sector.

User avatar
Veritas
Posts: 2722
Joined: Fri Oct 24, 2008 11:50 pm

Re: Military Law

Postby Veritas » Thu Jul 23, 2009 2:17 pm

Anyone have insight into what life on a Ship would be like for a JAG?

What types of daily tasks would they be working on and what types of non-legal/JAG related tasks do they administer to JAGs?

3milesup
Posts: 25
Joined: Fri Jun 12, 2009 5:15 pm

Re: Military Law

Postby 3milesup » Thu Jul 23, 2009 2:27 pm

J-Rod wrote:Also, if anyone is interested, I gathered some valuable information in having my personal statement for my Navy application reviewed by a CDR here, which I can post up later today. It was pretty useful, and I'm sure relevant, no matter what branch you would be applying to.


J-Rod: I am very interested in what you learned. I just finished my own statement (which I think is pretty good after several rounds of editing, if I do say so myself!).

Please post the advice when you can.

Gracias!

User avatar
J-Rod
Posts: 508
Joined: Tue Oct 02, 2007 6:00 pm

Re: Military Law

Postby J-Rod » Thu Jul 23, 2009 3:30 pm

3milesup wrote:
J-Rod wrote:Also, if anyone is interested, I gathered some valuable information in having my personal statement for my Navy application reviewed by a CDR here, which I can post up later today. It was pretty useful, and I'm sure relevant, no matter what branch you would be applying to.


J-Rod: I am very interested in what you learned. I just finished my own statement (which I think is pretty good after several rounds of editing, if I do say so myself!).

Please post the advice when you can.

Gracias!


While it says explain your interest and motivation for serving at the top of the essay box, I was told not to just talk about your motivation to serve, desire to serve country, etc. It is important to mention that, but don't make it the focus of your essay, as they already assume that you possess those qualities since you are applying. Tell them about yourself, work in a couple of accomplishments, perhaps how certain experiences have prepared you to serve, etc. Don't necessarily iterate specific opportunities that really attracted you to the corps as they assume everyone is joining for many of those reasons, but you can certainly mention your excitement for the opportunities provided. Perhaps mention classes you plan on taking, or law school activities you plan on getting involved in(I'm doing this because I just finished my 1L, so seeing the prescribed list of courses on my transcript doesn't say much)

Lucky for me, both the LCDR and CDR here are going to meet with me to go over the bio of the CAPT I'm interviewing with, and a good strategy for the interview . . . and I'm interning with the Army, but these Navy folks are more than willing to help me out.

So if nothing else, this is again just a plug for the 1L internship with any service.
Last edited by J-Rod on Thu Jul 23, 2009 3:44 pm, edited 1 time in total.

User avatar
Foozle
Posts: 166
Joined: Mon Jun 01, 2009 12:04 pm

Re: Military Law

Postby Foozle » Thu Jul 23, 2009 3:33 pm

Over the last few weeks, I've read through this entire thread.

I just wanted to say that, as a 0L who has toyed around with the idea of doing JAG for the last few months, I've found it very useful.

User avatar
Veritas
Posts: 2722
Joined: Fri Oct 24, 2008 11:50 pm

Re: Military Law

Postby Veritas » Thu Jul 23, 2009 3:42 pm

J-Rod wrote:
While it says explain your interest and motivation for serving at the top of the essay box, I was told not to just talk about your motivation to serve, desire to serve country, etc. It is important to mention that, but don't make it the focus of your essay, as they already assume that you possess those qualities since you are applying. Tell them about yourself, work in a couple of accomplishments, perhaps how certain experiences have prepared you to serve, etc. Don't necessarily iterate specific opportunities that really attracted you to the corps as they assume everyone is joining for many of those reasons, but you can certainly mention your excitement for the opportunities provided. Perhaps mention classes you plan on taking, or law school activities you plan on getting involved in(I'm doing this because I just finished my 1L, so seeing the prescribed list of courses on my transcript doesn't say much)

Lucky for my, both the LCDR and CDR here are going to meet with me to go over the bio of the CAPT I'm interviewing with, and a good strategy for the interview . . . and I'm interning with the Army, but these Navy folks are more than willing to help me out.

So if nothing else, this is again just a plug for the 1L internship with any service.

Thanks, J-rod! Useful information. So it seems that the focus should be more on what you have to offer the JAG corps rather than why the JAG corp?

User avatar
J-Rod
Posts: 508
Joined: Tue Oct 02, 2007 6:00 pm

Re: Military Law

Postby J-Rod » Thu Jul 23, 2009 3:47 pm

veritas85 wrote:
J-Rod wrote:
While it says explain your interest and motivation for serving at the top of the essay box, I was told not to just talk about your motivation to serve, desire to serve country, etc. It is important to mention that, but don't make it the focus of your essay, as they already assume that you possess those qualities since you are applying. Tell them about yourself, work in a couple of accomplishments, perhaps how certain experiences have prepared you to serve, etc. Don't necessarily iterate specific opportunities that really attracted you to the corps as they assume everyone is joining for many of those reasons, but you can certainly mention your excitement for the opportunities provided. Perhaps mention classes you plan on taking, or law school activities you plan on getting involved in(I'm doing this because I just finished my 1L, so seeing the prescribed list of courses on my transcript doesn't say much)

Lucky for my, both the LCDR and CDR here are going to meet with me to go over the bio of the CAPT I'm interviewing with, and a good strategy for the interview . . . and I'm interning with the Army, but these Navy folks are more than willing to help me out.

So if nothing else, this is again just a plug for the 1L internship with any service.

Thanks, J-rod! Useful information. So it seems that the focus should be more on what you have to offer the JAG corps rather than why the JAG corp?


Yes, I would say 75/25 what/why . . . they already know about the desire to serve, what the corps is like, etc. They want to know about you, why they should offer you a commission

User avatar
Veritas
Posts: 2722
Joined: Fri Oct 24, 2008 11:50 pm

Re: Military Law

Postby Veritas » Thu Jul 23, 2009 3:48 pm

Cool, thanks.

Are you doing the Army internship right now? If, so, how's it going?

User avatar
J-Rod
Posts: 508
Joined: Tue Oct 02, 2007 6:00 pm

Re: Military Law

Postby J-Rod » Thu Jul 23, 2009 4:07 pm

veritas85 wrote:Cool, thanks.

Are you doing the Army internship right now? If, so, how's it going?


I am doing it right now, and it's going very well. I'm on here today because it's a slow day at the office, several people are PCS'ing so we had an award ceremony, etc.

I've worked on some cool projects, met a lot of great people, traveled to DC, shortly I'm headed to Guantanamo Bay, and possibly Ft. Campbell as well, so it will be an exciting last two weeks of the summer

This internship has defintely increased my desire to serve

ArkansasFan
Posts: 44
Joined: Fri Jun 29, 2007 9:39 pm

Re: Military Law

Postby ArkansasFan » Thu Jul 23, 2009 6:49 pm

wreckem wrote:
ArkansasFan wrote:
Esquire wrote:
H.E. Pennypacker wrote:For those of you serving or with summer experience, what is the age range like in the JAG corps? Does it skew younger, meaning someone graduating at ~30 would be out of place relative to other career options?

I wouldn't be afraid to commission at 25 or 35. There's a large range of ages. I've encountered many here on base. I wouldn't think much of it at all.


The only thing I would worry about is age associated with rank. Just as an example, not having anything to do with law school or JAG, I'd hate being say a 30 year old second lieutenant/ensign.


Fortunately thats not really an issue. JAGs don't start at second lieutenant/ensign. They start out as 0-2 and are typically promoted to 0-3 6 months after active duty commissioning. Promotion to 0-3 typically happens shortly after graduation from basic legal school.



That's kind of why I was making an illustration outside of JAG. Granted, being a 30 year old 0-1 isn't really any better.

User avatar
Rotor
Posts: 917
Joined: Sat Oct 04, 2008 11:06 pm

Re: Military Law

Postby Rotor » Fri Jul 24, 2009 9:43 am

veritas85 wrote:Anyone have insight into what life on a Ship would be like for a JAG?

What types of daily tasks would they be working on and what types of non-legal/JAG related tasks do they administer to JAGs?


There are actually very few sea-going billets for JAGs (at least at junior levels). Each of the aircraft carriers has a Lieutenant Commander/Commander JAG as their SJA and most (if not all) have transitioned their legal/discipline officer to JAGs too (rather than the navy equivalent of a paralegal). Big deck amphibs will also have a LT or LCDR, but probably only one officer instead of two, so that may be 30-40 people max-- meaning only 10-15 openings each year. If you end up in a shipboard billet, much of what you do will depend on your Captain. My last "Judge" got involved with the training team and led one of the damage control repair lockers, fighting fires etc. Others I've seen have been so busy administering the legal system on the ship, they just stayed in their office and apart from the room moving under you, it would probably be similar to whatever office job you're used to. Basically, it's what you want to make of it.

As you get more senior, you may be assigned to an admiral's staff for your expertise in laws of war, etc., and reviewing certain decisions made by subordinate commanders in enforcing the UCMJ to ensure compliance with the manual. But then, you won't have any shipboard duties since the admiral will keep you plenty busy!

If you have specific questions about life in the navy, JAG or not, let me know. Since I'm retiring from the navy and becoming a 1L in 3 weeks, I can only give you what I know about JAG life from the outside looking in and from friends. But I can certainly answer whatever big-Navy questions you have! (But the movers come in 3 days, so I may not get to it right away!)

3milesup
Posts: 25
Joined: Fri Jun 12, 2009 5:15 pm

Re: Military Law

Postby 3milesup » Fri Jul 24, 2009 5:37 pm

Rotor wrote:
There are actually very few sea-going billets for JAGs (at least at junior levels). Each of the aircraft carriers has a Lieutenant Commander/Commander JAG as their SJA and most (if not all) have transitioned their legal/discipline officer to JAGs too (rather than the navy equivalent of a paralegal). Big deck amphibs will also have a LT or LCDR, but probably only one officer instead of two, so that may be 30-40 people max-- meaning only 10-15 openings each year. If you end up in a shipboard billet, much of what you do will depend on your Captain. My last "Judge" got involved with the training team and led one of the damage control repair lockers, fighting fires etc. Others I've seen have been so busy administering the legal system on the ship, they just stayed in their office and apart from the room moving under you, it would probably be similar to whatever office job you're used to. Basically, it's what you want to make of it.

As you get more senior, you may be assigned to an admiral's staff for your expertise in laws of war, etc., and reviewing certain decisions made by subordinate commanders in enforcing the UCMJ to ensure compliance with the manual. But then, you won't have any shipboard duties since the admiral will keep you plenty busy!

If you have specific questions about life in the navy, JAG or not, let me know. Since I'm retiring from the navy and becoming a 1L in 3 weeks, I can only give you what I know about JAG life from the outside looking in and from friends. But I can certainly answer whatever big-Navy questions you have! (But the movers come in 3 days, so I may not get to it right away!)


What do you think, based on your experience: If I am accepted into Navy JAG, what are the chances that I could end up in Afghanistan on my first tour? I actually want to go. Thx.

3milesup
Posts: 25
Joined: Fri Jun 12, 2009 5:15 pm

Re: Military Law

Postby 3milesup » Fri Jul 24, 2009 5:40 pm

J-Rod wrote:
veritas85 wrote:
J-Rod wrote:
While it says explain your interest and motivation for serving at the top of the essay box, I was told not to just talk about your motivation to serve, desire to serve country, etc. It is important to mention that, but don't make it the focus of your essay, as they already assume that you possess those qualities since you are applying. Tell them about yourself, work in a couple of accomplishments, perhaps how certain experiences have prepared you to serve, etc. Don't necessarily iterate specific opportunities that really attracted you to the corps as they assume everyone is joining for many of those reasons, but you can certainly mention your excitement for the opportunities provided. Perhaps mention classes you plan on taking, or law school activities you plan on getting involved in(I'm doing this because I just finished my 1L, so seeing the prescribed list of courses on my transcript doesn't say much)

Lucky for my, both the LCDR and CDR here are going to meet with me to go over the bio of the CAPT I'm interviewing with, and a good strategy for the interview . . . and I'm interning with the Army, but these Navy folks are more than willing to help me out.

So if nothing else, this is again just a plug for the 1L internship with any service.

Thanks, J-rod! Useful information. So it seems that the focus should be more on what you have to offer the JAG corps rather than why the JAG corp?


Yes, I would say 75/25 what/why . . . they already know about the desire to serve, what the corps is like, etc. They want to know about you, why they should offer you a commission


Interesting. Thanks!

brownshoe
Posts: 74
Joined: Thu Mar 26, 2009 8:46 am

Re: Military Law

Postby brownshoe » Fri Jul 24, 2009 7:21 pm

3milesup wrote:
Rotor wrote:
There are actually very few sea-going billets for JAGs (at least at junior levels). Each of the aircraft carriers has a Lieutenant Commander/Commander JAG as their SJA and most (if not all) have transitioned their legal/discipline officer to JAGs too (rather than the navy equivalent of a paralegal). Big deck amphibs will also have a LT or LCDR, but probably only one officer instead of two, so that may be 30-40 people max-- meaning only 10-15 openings each year. If you end up in a shipboard billet, much of what you do will depend on your Captain. My last "Judge" got involved with the training team and led one of the damage control repair lockers, fighting fires etc. Others I've seen have been so busy administering the legal system on the ship, they just stayed in their office and apart from the room moving under you, it would probably be similar to whatever office job you're used to. Basically, it's what you want to make of it.

As you get more senior, you may be assigned to an admiral's staff for your expertise in laws of war, etc., and reviewing certain decisions made by subordinate commanders in enforcing the UCMJ to ensure compliance with the manual. But then, you won't have any shipboard duties since the admiral will keep you plenty busy!

If you have specific questions about life in the navy, JAG or not, let me know. Since I'm retiring from the navy and becoming a 1L in 3 weeks, I can only give you what I know about JAG life from the outside looking in and from friends. But I can certainly answer whatever big-Navy questions you have! (But the movers come in 3 days, so I may not get to it right away!)


What do you think, based on your experience: If I am accepted into Navy JAG, what are the chances that I could end up in Afghanistan on my first tour? I actually want to go. Thx.



Right now, the way I understand it is if you want to go, you'll go. They are filling almost all the IA (individual augmentee) billets with volunteers. A lot of people actually want to go, so the spots do fill pretty quickly.

Caveat - this info is about 1 year old, so I don't know how it is changing with different personnel requirements for Iraq/Afghan now.

User avatar
J-Rod
Posts: 508
Joined: Tue Oct 02, 2007 6:00 pm

Re: Military Law

Postby J-Rod » Fri Jul 24, 2009 7:29 pm

brownshoe wrote:
3milesup wrote:
Rotor wrote:
There are actually very few sea-going billets for JAGs (at least at junior levels). Each of the aircraft carriers has a Lieutenant Commander/Commander JAG as their SJA and most (if not all) have transitioned their legal/discipline officer to JAGs too (rather than the navy equivalent of a paralegal). Big deck amphibs will also have a LT or LCDR, but probably only one officer instead of two, so that may be 30-40 people max-- meaning only 10-15 openings each year. If you end up in a shipboard billet, much of what you do will depend on your Captain. My last "Judge" got involved with the training team and led one of the damage control repair lockers, fighting fires etc. Others I've seen have been so busy administering the legal system on the ship, they just stayed in their office and apart from the room moving under you, it would probably be similar to whatever office job you're used to. Basically, it's what you want to make of it.

As you get more senior, you may be assigned to an admiral's staff for your expertise in laws of war, etc., and reviewing certain decisions made by subordinate commanders in enforcing the UCMJ to ensure compliance with the manual. But then, you won't have any shipboard duties since the admiral will keep you plenty busy!

If you have specific questions about life in the navy, JAG or not, let me know. Since I'm retiring from the navy and becoming a 1L in 3 weeks, I can only give you what I know about JAG life from the outside looking in and from friends. But I can certainly answer whatever big-Navy questions you have! (But the movers come in 3 days, so I may not get to it right away!)


What do you think, based on your experience: If I am accepted into Navy JAG, what are the chances that I could end up in Afghanistan on my first tour? I actually want to go. Thx.



Right now, the way I understand it is if you want to go, you'll go. They are filling almost all the IA (individual augmentee) billets with volunteers. A lot of people actually want to go, so the spots do fill pretty quickly.

Caveat - this info is about 1 year old, so I don't know how it is changing with different personnel requirements for Iraq/Afghan now.



Right now, pretty much anyone who wants a deployment can get one. Navy JAG doesn't make anyone deploy who doesn't want to, but they're definitely plenty available right now

biglaw930
Posts: 6
Joined: Fri Dec 12, 2008 12:13 pm

Re: Military Law

Postby biglaw930 » Sun Jul 26, 2009 8:02 pm

Wow, what a great thread. I've read through this entire thread and feel like I know all that there is about the various Jag programs except for one HUGE question about my history. I just graduated undergrad at age 26 (a bit on the old side). To my credit I am married with two kids and one on the way, and I have supported my family the past three years running a very successful personal training business (and I love crossfit BTW!). I am starting law school in about three weeks at a T3 that I chose because they offered me a full ride scholarship. I have decided that JAG is what I want to do BUT, there is a huge problem...my record. When I was 18, my first g/f broke up with me and I acted very immaturely. I received two MIP's in 28 days...then a year later I got a DUI, which the judge supposedly knocked down to an impaired driving...then, as a sophmore in college, I got another DUI, that stayed as a DUI on my record...So, my latest DUI will be 5 years old around the time that I apply. My first DUI will be 8 years old around the time that I apply and my MIP's will be 9 years old. Obviously, I have matured greatly since then, especially since I have children now. I feel terribly that I was once so ignorant, and I pray to god that no idiot like I was then ever runs a stop sign and hits my children while under the influence. I definitely understand the seriousness of my offenses, and I am not at all trying to down play them. I just don't want them to prevent me from following my dreams of becoming a JAG in the military. What do you guys think, is my fate sealed? Is there any hope? If so, how slim and what do I need to do?

Thanks in advance!

biglaw930
Posts: 6
Joined: Fri Dec 12, 2008 12:13 pm

Re: Military Law

Postby biglaw930 » Sun Jul 26, 2009 9:43 pm

bump




Return to “Legal Employment”

Who is online

The online users are hidden on this forum.