Military Law

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ShockTop
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Re: Military Law

Postby ShockTop » Thu Mar 14, 2013 7:14 pm

LazinessPerSe wrote:
wesangler wrote:To anybody who is in the know, how much of a leg-up will a 2L summer spent with the Navy JAGC give me come time for Direct Appointment applications? Can anybody vouch for the Navy internship experience as a whole? I ask because I have a secondary offer from a government agency where I have a better idea of the substantive work experience I'd be getting. Any advice would be appreciated.


Talked with a few Navy JAGs (O-3, O-5) about the Navy internship subject. Their basic consensus was that it is a valuable experience, but working for a DA's office would look better on application boards. The rationale was that the Navy internship does not get the intern much legal experience, whereas the DA's office often allows 3Ls to handle their own cases. There's value in the connections and potential review of work product / LOR from the Navy internship, but the litigation/advocacy experience is higher when working a DA internship.

Take it FWIW - but I wouldn't put too much stock in the Navy internship.


So did I, and I had the opposite reaction from every single officer I spoke to, including several O-6s. Every single one said the most valuable piece of someone's application, if they had one, would be a letter of recommendation from an O-6 JAG. Furthermore, I was told they look at interns differently in boards than other applicants. Interning for the Navy, for free, gives the board the impression that you really want to work there. This is all hearsay, obviously, but my experience with the internship program has left me with the impression that it matters more than you make it out to be.

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LazinessPerSe
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Re: Military Law

Postby LazinessPerSe » Thu Mar 14, 2013 10:48 pm

ShockTop wrote:
LazinessPerSe wrote:
wesangler wrote:To anybody who is in the know, how much of a leg-up will a 2L summer spent with the Navy JAGC give me come time for Direct Appointment applications? Can anybody vouch for the Navy internship experience as a whole? I ask because I have a secondary offer from a government agency where I have a better idea of the substantive work experience I'd be getting. Any advice would be appreciated.


Talked with a few Navy JAGs (O-3, O-5) about the Navy internship subject. Their basic consensus was that it is a valuable experience, but working for a DA's office would look better on application boards. The rationale was that the Navy internship does not get the intern much legal experience, whereas the DA's office often allows 3Ls to handle their own cases. There's value in the connections and potential review of work product / LOR from the Navy internship, but the litigation/advocacy experience is higher when working a DA internship.

Take it FWIW - but I wouldn't put too much stock in the Navy internship.


So did I, and I had the opposite reaction from every single officer I spoke to, including several O-6s. Every single one said the most valuable piece of someone's application, if they had one, would be a letter of recommendation from an O-6 JAG. Furthermore, I was told they look at interns differently in boards than other applicants. Interning for the Navy, for free, gives the board the impression that you really want to work there. This is all hearsay, obviously, but my experience with the internship program has left me with the impression that it matters more than you make it out to be.


That's a fair counterpoint. I'm just parroting what I heard from those officers I spoke to on the matter. It's very plausible that it's all subjective to the officer.

ShockTop
Posts: 86
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Re: Military Law

Postby ShockTop » Fri Mar 15, 2013 6:05 pm

LazinessPerSe wrote:
ShockTop wrote:
LazinessPerSe wrote:
wesangler wrote:To anybody who is in the know, how much of a leg-up will a 2L summer spent with the Navy JAGC give me come time for Direct Appointment applications? Can anybody vouch for the Navy internship experience as a whole? I ask because I have a secondary offer from a government agency where I have a better idea of the substantive work experience I'd be getting. Any advice would be appreciated.


Talked with a few Navy JAGs (O-3, O-5) about the Navy internship subject. Their basic consensus was that it is a valuable experience, but working for a DA's office would look better on application boards. The rationale was that the Navy internship does not get the intern much legal experience, whereas the DA's office often allows 3Ls to handle their own cases. There's value in the connections and potential review of work product / LOR from the Navy internship, but the litigation/advocacy experience is higher when working a DA internship.

Take it FWIW - but I wouldn't put too much stock in the Navy internship.


So did I, and I had the opposite reaction from every single officer I spoke to, including several O-6s. Every single one said the most valuable piece of someone's application, if they had one, would be a letter of recommendation from an O-6 JAG. Furthermore, I was told they look at interns differently in boards than other applicants. Interning for the Navy, for free, gives the board the impression that you really want to work there. This is all hearsay, obviously, but my experience with the internship program has left me with the impression that it matters more than you make it out to be.


That's a fair counterpoint. I'm just parroting what I heard from those officers I spoke to on the matter. It's very plausible that it's all subjective to the officer.


That's true. I guess one should also keep in mind that the board is made up of a dozen or so O-5s and O-6s and nobody outside of those on the board really knows what they're looking for, specifically, in terms of criteria. My impression of what I was told by my advisors and superiors was that the intern applicants were put in a separate pile and looked at separately, amongst other things. I have no idea if that's true but it was my impression of what they were saying. One said of last spring's boards, of the ~30 they took, more than half were ex-Navy interns.

acw1213
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Re: Military Law

Postby acw1213 » Mon Mar 18, 2013 5:32 pm

Have any other Army interns figured out what they're going to do now that all the positions will be unpaid?

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LSATmakesMeNeurotic
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Re: Military Law

Postby LSATmakesMeNeurotic » Mon Mar 18, 2013 7:50 pm

acw1213 wrote:Have any other Army interns figured out what they're going to do now that all the positions will be unpaid?


Start rationing my money for the summer so I can continue to eat since I used my externship credits up last summer doing the same thing and won't have loans coming in? But I'm an alternate, so I don't know if that changes anything.

Myself
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Postby Myself » Tue Mar 19, 2013 5:46 am

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Beachbum89
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Re: Military Law

Postby Beachbum89 » Tue Mar 19, 2013 9:36 am

ajax adonis wrote:
acw1213 wrote:Have any other Army interns figured out what they're going to do now that all the positions will be unpaid?


Do some of your schools provide some sort of grant for public interest internships?


Mine gives all students working public interest $300 per week over the summer.

andythefir
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Re: Military Law

Postby andythefir » Tue Mar 19, 2013 10:45 am

Does anyone have any experience with when the spring Navy board will get turned around? I assume it will be like the fall board, which would put it in mid-April (early October board got back in mid-December, early February at the same pace would put it in mid-April).

Also, is the spring 2L Navy board where the strong applicants tend to get picked up? I know some incredibly strong applicants got turned down in the fall, and it seems like this would be the Navy's last chance at most of the people with good credentials not willing to ride out 3L without a job.

Lechsie
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Re: Military Law

Postby Lechsie » Tue Mar 19, 2013 1:21 pm

With regard to your first question (turnaround Spring Navy Board), I have heard from my contact to expect news mid- to late-April.

navyjagjds
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Re: Military Law

Postby navyjagjds » Wed Mar 20, 2013 6:42 pm

With respect to the second question, the Navy takes its strongest applicants whether it is the Spring or Fall board. The implication that the Fall board chose weaker applicants is misguided.

awkwadoodle
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Re: Military Law

Postby awkwadoodle » Wed Mar 20, 2013 9:31 pm

So, if you do a Navy internship 1L -- what do you do 2L? Any recommendations? Also, what are the advantages or disadvantages of doing it 1L vs 2L? (sort of moot since I'm doing it this summer, but still curious)

andythefir
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Re: Military Law

Postby andythefir » Thu Mar 21, 2013 10:08 am

navyjagjds wrote:With respect to the second question, the Navy takes its strongest applicants whether it is the Spring or Fall board. The implication that the Fall board chose weaker applicants is misguided.


Let me clarify: the Navy folks that spoke to me said that for someone in my situation (no prior service, no 1L Navy internship) getting picked up on the 1st board was rare and that subsequent boards were more likely. They broke it down further that one of the reasons the acceptance % is so low is because the spring board for 3L 1st time applicants was a bloodbath (<1%), while other applicants to other boards are more successful (as high as 15-20%). I appreciate that other people have had different experiences, but this is definitely ringing true for the applications I am seeing.

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Rowinguy2009
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Re: Military Law

Postby Rowinguy2009 » Fri Mar 22, 2013 1:00 pm

Anyone apply for the army reserve spring selection board? (The one with the January 23, 2013 deadline). Any idea when results will be posted?

mlittle5
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Joined: Thu Apr 15, 2010 5:40 pm

Re: Military Law

Postby mlittle5 » Fri Mar 22, 2013 5:05 pm

Rowinguy2009 wrote:Anyone apply for the army reserve spring selection board? (The one with the January 23, 2013 deadline). Any idea when results will be posted?


I applied to the Reserves. I heard from my FSO results are due sometime in April. He wasn't too certain, though. Best of luck to you and everyone else who applied!

Myself
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Postby Myself » Sat Mar 23, 2013 3:42 am

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allendanze
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Re: Military Law

Postby allendanze » Mon Mar 25, 2013 9:08 am

Is there any significant difference between doing the JAG program through the National Guard vs. the military reserve. It looks like you have to go through the same training and the pay and benefits are the same.

mlittle5
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Re: Military Law

Postby mlittle5 » Mon Mar 25, 2013 3:39 pm

allendanze wrote:Is there any significant difference between doing the JAG program through the National Guard vs. the military reserve. It looks like you have to go through the same training and the pay and benefits are the same.


From what I'm told the biggest difference as far as applying is the selection rate. You can see on JARO's website that they accept FAR fewer people for NG than Army as a whole. As far as the job, I can't speak to that. I would assume the deployment rates are far different, but that's just my speculation.

Pdk7
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Re: Military Law

Postby Pdk7 » Mon Mar 25, 2013 5:51 pm

This reminds me, for those of you who didn't get the 2L internship, sometimes the National Guard has internships. Unpaid, but in fall, spring, and summer. A few people at my school and a few others in the area interned with the NG last year and I know that one of them was selected for AD this last round. It may not be as prestigious as the 2L internship, but it wouldn't hurt you either. If you're really interested, you should check around to see if there are any available in your state.

hoogs23
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Re: Military Law

Postby hoogs23 » Tue Mar 26, 2013 11:47 am

Sorry if this has already been stated, but does JAG ask how long a person intends to stay in JAG if selected? And do they favor someone who says they would stay in JAG for an extended time?

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howell
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Re: Military Law

Postby howell » Tue Mar 26, 2013 5:52 pm

hoogs23 wrote:Sorry if this has already been stated, but does JAG ask how long a person intends to stay in JAG if selected? And do they favor someone who says they would stay in JAG for an extended time?

I had a similar question a couple of years ago on this thread when I was applying. They don't ask, and I wouldn't make any claims of how long you want to stay in. Just explain why you're interested in JAG (type of work, serving your country, the people, etc.), and you can get across the idea that being a JAG officer is something you would really enjoy. You could briefly speak to the different career paths offered to indicate that you're at least considering what the future will be like, but I don't think it's necessary at all to try to indicate that you plan on staying in a long time. If you truly aren't one of those people just looking to hide out from a shitty economy, that should come through in many ways.

hoogs23
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Re: Military Law

Postby hoogs23 » Tue Mar 26, 2013 6:40 pm

howell wrote:
hoogs23 wrote:Sorry if this has already been stated, but does JAG ask how long a person intends to stay in JAG if selected? And do they favor someone who says they would stay in JAG for an extended time?

I had a similar question a couple of years ago on this thread when I was applying. They don't ask, and I wouldn't make any claims of how long you want to stay in. Just explain why you're interested in JAG (type of work, serving your country, the people, etc.), and you can get across the idea that being a JAG officer is something you would really enjoy. You could briefly speak to the different career paths offered to indicate that you're at least considering what the future will be like, but I don't think it's necessary at all to try to indicate that you plan on staying in a long time. If you truly aren't one of those people just looking to hide out from a shitty economy, that should come through in many ways.


thanks that helps a lot

Lechsie
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Re: Military Law

Postby Lechsie » Wed Mar 27, 2013 10:03 am

mlittle5 wrote:
allendanze wrote:Is there any significant difference between doing the JAG program through the National Guard vs. the military reserve.


Anecdata here from the mid-Atlantic. The National Guard for my jurisdiction was at 125% capacity for its JAG personnel, so not taking any more applications. The two neighboring states and even one slightly further afield (but still in region) also at capacity plus, so no opportunity there either, even were I able to waive into the appropriate bar and secure an age waiver stat. YMMV.

jagapplicant2012
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Re: Military Law

Postby jagapplicant2012 » Wed Mar 27, 2013 3:31 pm

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bouakedojo
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Re: Military Law

Postby bouakedojo » Wed Mar 27, 2013 8:02 pm

jagapplicant2012 wrote:I've been posting little updates about the Army AD process for selectees. Just wanted to give everyone a heads up that Army AD selects from Dec. 2012 just were notified that some (at least 20) are not shipping for OBC until Jan 2015. Pretty tough to hear. They're looking for volunteers to take the later OBC class date. I have no idea what this means for future applicants (perhaps nothing).


:shock:

Myself
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Postby Myself » Thu Mar 28, 2013 2:14 am

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