Military Law

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paul554
Posts: 96
Joined: Mon Dec 19, 2011 6:14 pm

Re: Military Law

Postby paul554 » Wed Jan 09, 2013 1:48 pm

mlittle5 wrote:Regarding the Air Force Internship

FWIW I just received an email from USAJobs saying my application has been referred to the hiring manager. Not sure if this means anything aside from a clerical update, but thought I'd share for anyone else who's applying.


USAJOBS is funny, this message only means that you met the minimum qualifications for the job. In my experience with USAJOBS you'll either receive an email stating your rejected or a phone call from the hiring official to work out start times, interview etc..

bkenney2
Posts: 34
Joined: Thu Aug 13, 2009 12:35 pm

Re: Military Law

Postby bkenney2 » Wed Jan 09, 2013 2:33 pm

Jobs for spouses question. What do most spouses do for work, specifically. My significant other has work experience and a college degree. What type of jobs would be suitable for her as we begin to look. Anyone know what most people do in the military? She is considering consulting where she would be traveling a bit, but which would not require her to be located in a particular area for any reason (besides being near an airport). Any other types of jobs spouses usually take? Thanks for any help guys.

Appleton4309
Posts: 4
Joined: Thu Dec 06, 2012 11:42 am

Re: Military Law

Postby Appleton4309 » Wed Jan 09, 2013 2:54 pm

Esquire and other JAGS

You mentioned you would have an easier time finding a post military job if so desired. Can you speak to how the post-military job market is for JAGs right now? I read online that a lot of JAGs getting out are having a very hard time finding decent jobs (big law is nearly impossible). Can you speak to any personal experience you all have with people who just got out or if you have any experience yourself? Thank you very much for your time and service.

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Esquire
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Re: Military Law

Postby Esquire » Wed Jan 09, 2013 4:38 pm

Appleton4309 wrote:Esquire and other JAGS

You mentioned you would have an easier time finding a post military job if so desired. Can you speak to how the post-military job market is for JAGs right now? I read online that a lot of JAGs getting out are having a very hard time finding decent jobs (big law is nearly impossible). Can you speak to any personal experience you all have with people who just got out or if you have any experience yourself? Thank you very much for your time and service.

If you're looking to get into JAG because you couldn't cut it for big law the first time around, don't. The two jobs attract a different set of people. Basically no one goes from JAG to biglaw. I know biglaw to JAG, though. Federal government jobs are very possible.

"I read online that a lot of JAGs getting out are having a very hard time finding decent jobs"

Did you? Show me. I've found this information to be quite scarce.

paul554
Posts: 96
Joined: Mon Dec 19, 2011 6:14 pm

Re: Military Law

Postby paul554 » Wed Jan 09, 2013 6:16 pm

bkenney2 wrote:Jobs for spouses question. What do most spouses do for work, specifically. My significant other has work experience and a college degree. What type of jobs would be suitable for her as we begin to look. Anyone know what most people do in the military? She is considering consulting where she would be traveling a bit, but which would not require her to be located in a particular area for any reason (besides being near an airport). Any other types of jobs spouses usually take? Thanks for any help guys.


We go to law school and post on TLS all day!

The big question is what degree does you SO have? Federal jobs will be the most portable as they will get a hiring preference when you PCS, if you are married PRIOR to the PCS. The most common jobs I've seen for spouses in the federal system are Police/Security guard, accounting, contracts and general office work. These jobs tend to exist at near every military post in some fashion or another so this is why they appear to be so popular.

Appleton4309
Posts: 4
Joined: Thu Dec 06, 2012 11:42 am

Re: Military Law

Postby Appleton4309 » Wed Jan 09, 2013 7:01 pm

Esquire wrote:
Appleton4309 wrote:Esquire and other JAGS


Did you? Show me. I've found this information to be quite scarce.



http://insidethelawschoolscam.blogspot. ... esent.html

check out the comments. Thats just from last week. Can you please tell me if there is any truth to this based on what you have seen personally? Thanks

adonai
Posts: 1033
Joined: Mon Apr 23, 2007 9:09 pm

Re: Military Law

Postby adonai » Wed Jan 09, 2013 7:10 pm

Appleton4309 wrote:
Esquire wrote:
Appleton4309 wrote:Esquire and other JAGS


Did you? Show me. I've found this information to be quite scarce.



http://insidethelawschoolscam.blogspot. ... esent.html

check out the comments. Thats just from last week. Can you please tell me if there is any truth to this based on what you have seen personally? Thanks

The only thing I personally saw was one guy saying it was hard to get a promotion (assuming in JAG)? Anyway, one of my interviewers made it seem like he and those he knew in various JAG branches basically had their pick of the litter with regards to big fed jobs, with most common being boon-town USAOs, DOJ, and DHS.

paul554
Posts: 96
Joined: Mon Dec 19, 2011 6:14 pm

Re: Military Law

Postby paul554 » Wed Jan 09, 2013 7:49 pm

adonai wrote:
Appleton4309 wrote:
Esquire wrote:
Appleton4309 wrote:Esquire and other JAGS


Did you? Show me. I've found this information to be quite scarce.



http://insidethelawschoolscam.blogspot. ... esent.html

check out the comments. Thats just from last week. Can you please tell me if there is any truth to this based on what you have seen personally? Thanks

The only thing I personally saw was one guy saying it was hard to get a promotion (assuming in JAG)? Anyway, one of my interviewers made it seem like he and those he knew in various JAG branches basically had their pick of the litter with regards to big fed jobs, with most common being boon-town USAOs, DOJ, and DHS.


There is a reason JAG retention rates are low and it is not because people are getting "run out" of the military. My advice if you get JAG is simply to do your 20 years and retire. As a Major of LTC you are looking at a yearly pension of around 48K-65K not including COLA adjustments and your TSP (401K). The Army Times posted an article about this once and the average officer who retires at 20-22 years before the age of 50 is expected to make over 1.5 million dollars in retirement benefits just from their pension, not including health care and so forth.

Another
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Postby Another » Thu Jan 10, 2013 2:42 pm

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Last edited by Another on Fri Nov 29, 2013 5:05 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Neverow
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Re: Military Law

Postby Neverow » Thu Jan 10, 2013 6:02 pm

I have a strategy question here. I am currently a 3L in Washington, DC. I applied twice to AF AD so far and have been rejected twice. I had my interview at a local base and didn't feel great about it. For the April board I understand that I need a new interview. My wife is from North Dakota and we are going there for spring break. Do I gain any strategic advantage from scheduling my interview at the Minot AF Base over spring break? I can't imagine they get many appplicants up there. I'm sure the DC area bases get a ton. Do different geographical regions have any sort of quota? I think it would be pretty obvious that I'm trying to game the system. Thanks for the help.

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Patrick Bateman
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Re: Military Law

Postby Patrick Bateman » Thu Jan 10, 2013 10:27 pm

hopkins23 wrote:Question: I recently got a job offer into the AF AD. I was wondering if it would be okay/ungrateful for me to tell other employers I interviewed with about my current offer?

How does JAG generally look at this? Would it be frowned upon? I'm not ungrateful, and I appreciate the great opportunity to serve my country and I am heavily heavily leaning toward joining, but I just want to make sure I'm exploring all options. Muchas gracias!


I'm not sure if I understand your question. Are you concerned about AF JAG being butt-hurt over you using their offer to leverage something better? Practically speaking, I'm not sure how AF JAG would find out that you were shopping their offer around in the first place.

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Patrick Bateman
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Re: Military Law

Postby Patrick Bateman » Thu Jan 10, 2013 10:36 pm

Neverow wrote:I have a strategy question here. I am currently a 3L in Washington, DC. I applied twice to AF AD so far and have been rejected twice. I had my interview at a local base and didn't feel great about it. For the April board I understand that I need a new interview. My wife is from North Dakota and we are going there for spring break. Do I gain any strategic advantage from scheduling my interview at the Minot AF Base over spring break? I can't imagine they get many appplicants up there. I'm sure the DC area bases get a ton. Do different geographical regions have any sort of quota? I think it would be pretty obvious that I'm trying to game the system. Thanks for the help.


I don't see any issues trying out a different base/SJA if you are concerned about the perception of forum shopping. There is no reason you should feel married to a particular base if you did not have a particularly good interview or rapport with that SJA.

I've never seen any sort of quota system in terms of applicants from bases. JAX is going to select the best qualified, whether that applicant is applying at Andrews in DC, Andersen in Guam, or Grissom Air Reserve Base in Indianapolis. I've seen boards where a single base has 2-3 applicants selected and then none for the following board. This is (hopefully) about finding the best officers we can, not any arbitrary"each base gets one" system.

Minot is a cool base, albeit in a remote area. Spend some time there if you can - the B-52 BUFF mission at the 5th Bomb Wing is incredible. Amazing to consider the B-52 has been flying since 1952 and is still at it.

Myself
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Postby Myself » Fri Jan 11, 2013 1:08 am

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Myself
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Postby Myself » Fri Jan 11, 2013 1:10 am

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Esquire
Posts: 145
Joined: Thu Jul 09, 2009 2:45 pm

Re: Military Law

Postby Esquire » Fri Jan 11, 2013 12:58 pm

Appleton4309 wrote:
Esquire wrote:
Appleton4309 wrote:Esquire and other JAGS


Did you? Show me. I've found this information to be quite scarce.



http://insidethelawschoolscam.blogspot. ... esent.html

check out the comments. Thats just from last week. Can you please tell me if there is any truth to this based on what you have seen personally? Thanks

"If your friend wants to climb the ranks in the military, he will have to jump from JAG to infantry, which means he will have to be in shape and take shit from the grunts (remember, in training your captain's bars don't mean crap as you have to lick your drill instructor's boots). "

Whatever.

"I'm in the JAG Corps. I'm getting out later this year. Promotions are getting much more difficult. "

Yes, but if we're talking about promotion to Major, big deal. It's still a high 80-85%. The people that don't get selected for it likely have a reason why they weren't selected. LTC is still yours to lose.

"A Michigan grad will be derided harder than the average JAG officer. "

Who posts this kind of nonsense? It's just straight trolling. If you pick out useful comments for me to look at, I can give my opinion. Otherwise, I've stopped reading it. Seems to be a bunch of trolling.

adonai wrote:The only thing I personally saw was one guy saying it was hard to get a promotion (assuming in JAG)? Anyway, one of my interviewers made it seem like he and those he knew in various JAG branches basically had their pick of the litter with regards to big fed jobs, with most common being boon-town USAOs, DOJ, and DHS.

I've found this to be the case. Veteran's preference and real litigation experience is highly respected by the Feds.
Last edited by Esquire on Fri Jan 11, 2013 3:20 pm, edited 1 time in total.

ZeroDay
Posts: 20
Joined: Tue Jan 10, 2012 10:29 pm

Re: Military Law

Postby ZeroDay » Fri Jan 11, 2013 1:57 pm

Esquire wrote:Yes, but if we're talking about promotion to Major, big deal. It's still a high 80-85%. The people that don't get selected for it likely have a reason why they weren't selected. LTC is still yours to lose.

PPTO just put out a memo on promotion rates and trends for the future; you can see the document here (LinkRemoved).

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Patrick Bateman
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Re: Military Law

Postby Patrick Bateman » Fri Jan 11, 2013 2:48 pm

ajax adonis wrote:
Neverow wrote:I have a strategy question here. I am currently a 3L in Washington, DC. I applied twice to AF AD so far and have been rejected twice. I had my interview at a local base and didn't feel great about it. For the April board I understand that I need a new interview. My wife is from North Dakota and we are going there for spring break. Do I gain any strategic advantage from scheduling my interview at the Minot AF Base over spring break? I can't imagine they get many appplicants up there. I'm sure the DC area bases get a ton. Do different geographical regions have any sort of quota? I think it would be pretty obvious that I'm trying to game the system. Thanks for the help.


I've spoken with a AF JAG at an informational session and what you say is true. Going to certain bases where there are not a lot of applicants will make you stand out more in the eyes of the interviewer because you're probably the only one he's interviewing (or maybe one out of two or three). She recommended going to less popular bases to interview.

I'm sure you could do the same thing even without interviewing. (e.g., drive farther to a more isolated base).


That is a good consideration.

A busier base will inevitably result in the SJA doing some sort of stratification/rack-and-stack of all the applicants because he/she probably cannot say every single applicant is an absolute must select. That cuts both ways. You will face some more competition, in a sense, from your fellow applicants but the SJA's recommendation may carry even more influence if he/she is able to say "number one of six applicants interviewed for the April board."

Edit: Another consideration is that a base with less applicants (I imagine Minot fits this bill) will have more time to assemble your application folder. Life at base legal at busy bases can be pretty miserable and even the SJA can be pulled in 17 different directions on any given day. Putting together the application packages, to include writing the SJA's recommendation, to be forwarded up to JAX can be time intensive.
Last edited by Patrick Bateman on Sat Jan 12, 2013 1:02 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Esquire
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Re: Military Law

Postby Esquire » Fri Jan 11, 2013 3:23 pm

ZeroDay wrote:
Esquire wrote:Yes, but if we're talking about promotion to Major, big deal. It's still a high 80-85%. The people that don't get selected for it likely have a reason why they weren't selected. LTC is still yours to lose.

PPTO just put out a memo on promotion rates and trends for the future; you can see the document here (LinkRemoved).

Thanks for that. I still think 80% is not a big issue. Yes, it's not an automatic thing but it's to be expected in this time of downsizing.

Here's something curious for aspiring JAGs: "Being a Broadly Skilled Judge Advocate is the coin of the realm."

It's true. You're supposed to be more of a generalist than specialist. The JAG Corps really wants you to be a jack of all trades.

cggoudre
Posts: 1
Joined: Fri Jan 11, 2013 5:39 pm

Re: Military Law

Postby cggoudre » Fri Jan 11, 2013 5:45 pm

I was recently selected for an army jag summer internship and if all goes well this summer I'm interested in applying active duty next year. I'm just wondering if anyone knew the selection rate for summer interns for active duty? I just want to know what kind of chance I have at active duty so I can prepare myself.

adonai
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Joined: Mon Apr 23, 2007 9:09 pm

Re: Military Law

Postby adonai » Fri Jan 11, 2013 5:48 pm

cggoudre wrote:I was recently selected for an army jag summer internship and if all goes well this summer I'm interested in applying active duty next year. I'm just wondering if anyone knew the selection rate for summer interns for active duty? I just want to know what kind of chance I have at active duty so I can prepare myself.

Someone posted in this topic that a senior JAG said he/she wants to accept 80% of summer interns into active duty. Still, it is up to the board to decide that, not a senior JAG if I'm not mistaken. Take it as you will?

Another
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Postby Another » Fri Jan 11, 2013 11:01 pm

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Last edited by Another on Fri Nov 29, 2013 5:05 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Myself
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Postby Myself » Tue Jan 15, 2013 1:10 pm

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Last edited by Myself on Tue Nov 19, 2013 10:15 am, edited 1 time in total.

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bouakedojo
Posts: 321
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Re: Military Law

Postby bouakedojo » Tue Jan 15, 2013 1:31 pm

ajax adonis wrote:Did any people accepted into JAG receive any further information from their FSOs or the recruiting office?


I spoke with someone selected AD for Army and, as of Sunday, this person had not heard anything from anyone yet.

votewarrior
Posts: 9
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Re: Military Law

Postby votewarrior » Tue Jan 15, 2013 1:48 pm

My FSO and I have traded a few emails since, but really just pleasantries, nothing more.

Still no mail with formal offer etc

rrami006
Posts: 4
Joined: Mon Dec 05, 2011 5:45 pm

Re: Military Law

Postby rrami006 » Tue Jan 15, 2013 3:44 pm

I just set up a hiring interview with an Air Force SJA for the Graduate Law Program. For anyone that has gone through the 2 year program or something similar, what can I expect in the interview, as they said it would be 3 hours long?




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