Military Law

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spleenworship
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Re: Military Law

Postby spleenworship » Sat Dec 29, 2012 5:54 pm

bouakedojo wrote:
shir9650 wrote:
erik_1717 wrote:So I've been pretty hardcore about applying to the Marines (finally got my application complete two weeks ago), but upon realizing that they do not offer the same loan repayment plan as others, I have been tempted to look into other branches. I have applied for 2L internships with both the Air Force and Army, and have began my application for the Navy Feb. Board. I tried to look into applying to be an actual JAG in the Air Force, but it looks like the program for 2Ls required me to do an interview in the fall semester of my 2L year. So my question is really just to clarify with those that know info about the Army and Air Force application processes. It looks like I will have to wait until my third year to apply to the Air Force, but there are three boards that meet in that year, thus three chances to get in, correct? Also, it looks like the Army meets twice a year, and I don't know if I have found a source that has anything a 2L can do to apply. Am I correct in saying that I will not be able to apply anything Army JAG related until third year?

Thanks for all the great info already and any future responses.


I wouldn't count on getting student loan repayment from the Army. It looks like the program is currently under review, due to budget restrictions. --LinkRemoved--


But keep in mind the federal program that offers 10 year loan forgiveness for military members, if you're wanting to make a career out of JAG service.


Do you get the tax bomb with the 10 year discharge for public service? I forget...

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LSATmakesMeNeurotic
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Re: Military Law

Postby LSATmakesMeNeurotic » Sat Dec 29, 2012 6:07 pm

spleenworship wrote:
Do you get the tax bomb with the 10 year discharge for public service? I forget...


No.

Myself
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Postby Myself » Sat Dec 29, 2012 7:41 pm

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LazinessPerSe
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Re: Military Law

Postby LazinessPerSe » Sat Dec 29, 2012 10:14 pm

Are you guys sure about that? Am I reading this wrong?

http://www.finaid.org/loans/publicservice.phtml

The borrower must be employed full-time in a public service job for each of the 120 monthly payments. Public service jobs include, among other positions, emergency management, government (excluding time served as a member of Congress), military service, public safety and law enforcement (police and fire), public health (including nurses, nurse practitioners, nurses in a clinical setting, and full-time professionals engaged in health care practitioner occupations and health care support occupations), public education. . .

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BruceWayne
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Re: Military Law

Postby BruceWayne » Sat Dec 29, 2012 10:22 pm

Yeah the quote shows that military service DOES count. Actually a lot more things count than I would have thought. Hmmm sticker debt for law school might not be as bad as this site makes it out to be if you go the public service route.

Myself
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Postby Myself » Sun Dec 30, 2012 3:26 am

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LazinessPerSe
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Re: Military Law

Postby LazinessPerSe » Sun Dec 30, 2012 6:06 am

ajax adonis wrote:
LazinessPerSe wrote:Are you guys sure about that? Am I reading this wrong?

http://www.finaid.org/loans/publicservice.phtml

The borrower must be employed full-time in a public service job for each of the 120 monthly payments. Public service jobs include, among other positions, emergency management, government (excluding time served as a member of Congress), military service, public safety and law enforcement (police and fire), public health (including nurses, nurse practitioners, nurses in a clinical setting, and full-time professionals engaged in health care practitioner occupations and health care support occupations), public education. . .


Yes, so if you work in the military for 10 years, you qualify for forgiveness, but the amount forgiven is not taxed.


Oh, I see what we're about now. My bad! I did a double-take thinking the above posts were denying that military service qualifies for public service forgiveness. Thanks for clearing it up.

Another
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Postby Another » Sun Dec 30, 2012 8:04 pm

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Rotor
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Re: Military Law

Postby Rotor » Sun Dec 30, 2012 11:03 pm

hopkins23 wrote:just wondering. Does anyone know why the army jagcnet website always comes up as an "untrusted connection?"

For some reason, the military is horrible about keeping its certificates current with the Internet security orgs. Maybe they feel they don't have to play well with others because they have their own security organization.

If it's a .mil, you can safely click the "not recommended" red X.

Myself
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Postby Myself » Mon Dec 31, 2012 2:22 am

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Myself
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Postby Myself » Mon Dec 31, 2012 7:23 pm

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boardercms
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Re: Military Law

Postby boardercms » Tue Jan 01, 2013 12:30 am

I did not get into the Army's Program. I am a 3L. Can I apply for the Reserve Board on Jan. 20th or must I wait until after I pass the bar?

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Esquire
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Re: Military Law

Postby Esquire » Tue Jan 01, 2013 7:56 am

ajax adonis wrote:To anyone that's gone through a military medical clearance test before being sworn into JAG: how much poking and prodding do they do? How rigorous is the process? Anything I should be prepared to answer from the docs?

I think I wrote about medical exam stuff previously. It wasn't too bad.

Myself
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Postby Myself » Tue Jan 01, 2013 2:19 pm

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Patrick Bateman
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Re: Military Law

Postby Patrick Bateman » Tue Jan 01, 2013 2:37 pm

ajax adonis wrote:
Esquire wrote:
Bounders wrote:Does anybody know what the medical process is for Army JAG? I went through MEPS (which was a delightful experience) for Marines and passed.

Is this Dodmerb physical similar to MEPS?

I don't know if it's similar to MEPS but basically you schedule an appointment with eye, ear, and a typical physician around your area. You pop in, they fill out your forms, they send 'em over to the Army. You get your results in 2 or so weeks, IIRC. Really painless.

You only go through this once you get accepted as a JAG candidate. Not prior to.


Thanks. I was wondering; I've read horror stories. How soon after getting accepted did you go through this process? Were you able to do it before taking the bar?


You'll want to get after it as soon as you can. If you have something that requires a waiver or any other issues arise, it can be a very slow process.

I was picked up late August and attended MEPS in October. It has been a while now but I remember spending a lot of that six weeks having to actively work with my MEPS liaison and JAX to get shit arranged. With the Air Force, we are owned by JAX and do not interact with recruiters or the AF Personnel Center at all - the rest of the Air Force does not work this way. This usually serves to confuse the hell out of MEPS personnel and slow the entire process down.

Stay on top of the MEPS process and once you get there, be prepared for what can be a long day.

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Patrick Bateman
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Re: Military Law

Postby Patrick Bateman » Tue Jan 01, 2013 9:58 pm

ajax adonis wrote:
Esquire wrote:
Bounders wrote:Does anybody know what the medical process is for Army JAG? I went through MEPS (which was a delightful experience) for Marines and passed.

Is this Dodmerb physical similar to MEPS?

I don't know if it's similar to MEPS but basically you schedule an appointment with eye, ear, and a typical physician around your area. You pop in, they fill out your forms, they send 'em over to the Army. You get your results in 2 or so weeks, IIRC. Really painless.

You only go through this once you get accepted as a JAG candidate. Not prior to.


Thanks. I was wondering; I've read horror stories. How soon after getting accepted did you go through this process? Were you able to do it before taking the bar?


One of the civilian posters on AFOTS put together a comprehensive breakdown of his MEPS experience:

http://airforceots.com/portal/modules.p ... highlight=

You'll have to register but worth it if you are interested in AF JAG as the JAG specific thread has some great stuff as well:
http://airforceots.com/portal/modules.p ... forum&f=51

Whitefox's post on AFOTS does not totally mirror my experience - YMMV from location to location.

abc123def
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Re: Military Law

Postby abc123def » Wed Jan 02, 2013 3:16 pm

Does anyone know anything about the Army General Counsel Honors Program or been a part of it (http://ogc.hqda.pentagon.mil/Careers/ho ... ogram.aspx)?

Just wondering what people think of doing this instead of Army JAG, in terms of work experience, life experience, and how others see this job (those in the military and also civilian employers).

I'm very interested in JAG but the idea of knowing you will be in DC for 4 years as opposed to who knows what Army base(s), and also knowing exactly what type of stuff you will be working on as opposed to what appears to be a very wide array of possibilities in JAG, does seem appealing to some degree. Though it appears you would miss out on most of the real "military experience" if you will (for better or worse).

target
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Re: Military Law

Postby target » Wed Jan 02, 2013 10:33 pm

What happen if I can't recall the exact dates of my past employments? I remember the month and year, but can't remember the exact dates. Does anyone have any tips in looking up that information?

Myself
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Postby Myself » Thu Jan 03, 2013 2:50 am

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abogadesq
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Re: Military Law

Postby abogadesq » Thu Jan 03, 2013 3:50 am

Since Navy and Air Force JAG emphasize litigation so much, do they view moot court/trial team or other courtroom activity more favourably than secondary journal (say, environmental law)?

erik_1717
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Re: Military Law

Postby erik_1717 » Thu Jan 03, 2013 3:10 pm

Have any of the people selected or the alternates for army summer internship gotten anything in the mail yet?

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Patrick Bateman
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Re: Military Law

Postby Patrick Bateman » Thu Jan 03, 2013 11:51 pm

mmartinneal wrote:Since Navy and Air Force JAG emphasize litigation so much, do they view moot court/trial team or other courtroom activity more favourably than secondary journal (say, environmental law)?


Well first, in that this is America, we do not use that bullsh*t "u" in favorably. That might fly in the RAF but not in my USAF. We are busy killing terrorists - we have no time for extraneous letters in our words.

I had both moot court team and managing editor of a secondary journal (business law). My interview (which was back in 2007 - a lot has changed in AF JAG accessions since then, so YMMV) had a very clear litigation emphasis. I had a lot of questions about moot court, my grades in litigation-ish classes (evidence, crim pro, pre-trial lit, etc), lit classes I would be taking as a 3L, etc. I don't recall much, if any, discussions about the journal or my other coursework.

I really cannot answer the ultimate question - which one is more important for a JAG acceptance? Gun to my head and absolutely everything else being equal, I would say moot court. That answer is also somewhat practical, beyond the resume boost - as much as I hated moot court, it was a great foundation for oral advocacy. I truly think I'm a better trial attorney for having suffered through it.

That said, if you already have a strong litigation background, a journal position may round you out better. There are a lot of positions in the JAG Corps that are not in the courtroom and not every SJA comes from an ADC/STC/SDC background. New JAGs will be doing some amount of courts in their first two assignments - some more than others. After that, there is the opportunity to stick with the litigation track or branch out to things like medical, environmental, labor, etc.

So, the standard lawyer answer is probably the best: it depends. Get good grades, demonstrate a commitment to government/public interest work, have some form litigation experience or show an interest in litigation, and get a JAG internship if you can. If you can get all that on your resume and interview well, you should be in good shape with moot court or a journal.

erik_1717
Posts: 42
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Re: Military Law

Postby erik_1717 » Fri Jan 04, 2013 12:18 am

Patrick Bateman wrote:
ajax adonis wrote:
Esquire wrote:
Bounders wrote:Does anybody know what the medical process is for Army JAG? I went through MEPS (which was a delightful experience) for Marines and passed.

Is this Dodmerb physical similar to MEPS?

I don't know if it's similar to MEPS but basically you schedule an appointment with eye, ear, and a typical physician around your area. You pop in, they fill out your forms, they send 'em over to the Army. You get your results in 2 or so weeks, IIRC. Really painless.

You only go through this once you get accepted as a JAG candidate. Not prior to.


Thanks. I was wondering; I've read horror stories. How soon after getting accepted did you go through this process? Were you able to do it before taking the bar?


One of the civilian posters on AFOTS put together a comprehensive breakdown of his MEPS experience:

http://airforceots.com/portal/modules.p ... highlight=

You'll have to register but worth it if you are interested in AF JAG as the JAG specific thread has some great stuff as well:
http://airforceots.com/portal/modules.p ... forum&f=51

Whitefox's post on AFOTS does not totally mirror my experience - YMMV from location to location.



I just got my physical approval today for the Marines using DodMerb. I read a billion terrible stories about MEPS and went into my Dodmerb thinking it would be a similar experience, but I was wrong. My Captain and SSgt both scared me when I initially began applying and had me obtain records from the hospitals I had been to. I doubt that everyone has to do this, but I had a pretty extensive medical history including three concussions. So, I walked into my Dodmerb physical carrying a ton of paperwork, expecting to be pummeled with questions, but the people administering the physical never asked me one question about any of my medical history! The worst part about the physical was just the hour wait beforehand, but once I got in there and did the test, it was a breeze. I'm not saying that my experience will mirror others, but for me it was something that was built up to be far worse than it really was.

After the physical I was kicking slightly kicking myself because of all of the time and effort I had to put into obtaining all of my medical history, but from other experiences I have read, I would say going this process is definitely one to use a "better safe than sorry" mentality. It can be incredibly slow and frustrating to be rejected. The experience above was the one for my actual physical. As someone else stated already, I also had to go and get an eye exam.

However, at least for the Marines, you get your physical BEFORE you are accepted as a JAG candidate, not after. From what someone else wrote, that may not be the case for the other branches.

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twenty
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Re: Military Law

Postby twenty » Fri Jan 04, 2013 7:10 pm

Hi all.

First off, 0L. Sorry.

I understand the army (and potentially other branches?) allows graduate students to do ROTC, and that simultaneously joining a drill unit allows you to do something called Simultaneous Membership Program. This covers 100% of your school tuition, while incurring 3 years of active duty or 6 years in the reserve. I'm a current graduate student with somewhere between 1-2 years left before I get my master's.

Thus, can I, in order...?

1) Sign up as a non-scholarship ROTC student during grad school (can I lump law school and grad school together under one ROTC contract?)
2) Sign up for SMP.
3) Get 100% LS tuition paid for and chill in law school while being a reservist.
4) Hopefully get JAG, but honestly don't care at the point where I get three years of law school free.

Thoughts?

johndeaux225
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Re: Military Law

Postby johndeaux225 » Sat Jan 05, 2013 8:50 pm

I apologize, but another 0L here, just need some advice on getting a jump on being a JAG.

I come from a strong USAF family (mom was an E-9, dad was an E-8. I have always felt the need to serve, and since I have set my sights on being a lawyer, I want to be a JAG. A career JAG. I would prefer to join the Two Year program while in law school, which for me, is at least 3 (undergraduate) semesters away. I just want some advising before I attempt to go down this path.

First, I live in Louisiana, and plan to attend a Louisiana law school. Due to a unique law code and bar set up, one is usually only prepared to take the Louisiana bar if they attended a LA law school, and you can only practice in LA if you pass the LA bar. Will this specificity help or hinder me? Hinder me as in being too exclusive of a degree, or could it help me, as in, due to the exclusivity, I will only be competing against other applicants from LA? Or should I forget about LA law school entirely and go to a school somewhere else?

Second, in the past, I have been known to partake in some marijuana use. I wouldn't call it heavy use, but it was more than sporadically. By the time I apply to the program (after first semester of 1L) this poor habit will have stopped for over 2 years. I will be honest and forthright in the process, but I do not wish to be disqualified for what I did in late adolescence. Do any of you JAGs know anyone with a similar path or should I just forget about it if I smoked pot more than once or twice?

Third, my parents were at one base my whole life (Barksdale AFB) and became very esteemed members of that community. With any luck, I'd like to interview with some of their old bosses and connections (including a recently retired Major General) in the hopes that I could impress one of them enough to write me a letter of recommendation. Would a rec letter from someone like this help me in my quest? I don't want to ride my parents coattails, but I feel like if I had the chance to sit down with someone with so much knowledge, that they might be able to see past my prior indiscretions and see the JAG potential that I feel I have.

Thank you in advance, to whoever helps. I've wanted to be a JAG since I figured out I wanted to be a lawyer. I love being around the law ( I work part time as a runner for a highly respected LA civil lawyer) and I love my country. I've never wanted anything as much as to be an officer in the USAF, and even if I'm never a JAG, I want to commission as an officer.




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