Military Law

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Appleton4309
Posts: 4
Joined: Thu Dec 06, 2012 11:42 am

Re: Military Law

Postby Appleton4309 » Thu Dec 06, 2012 11:45 am

There is no benefit to doing it this way. JAG does there own applications so you have to go through the regular JAG board, and if you dont get selected then you have to do 4 years in a different branch of the Army with potentially a law degree. AKA you could be working in Human Resources with a JD and be obligated for 4 years.

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abogadesq
Posts: 260
Joined: Sun May 20, 2012 1:30 am

Re: Military Law

Postby abogadesq » Thu Dec 06, 2012 10:14 pm

How great is the risk that you would not be accepted by the JAG board? I would think that someone who has gone through ROTC while in law school with decent grades would have a great shot...

Appleton4309
Posts: 4
Joined: Thu Dec 06, 2012 11:42 am

Re: Military Law

Postby Appleton4309 » Fri Dec 07, 2012 11:22 am

For Army I believe they have around a 7-9% acceptance rate so thats your answer. Roughly 91% chance you dont get selected.

PSH
Posts: 12
Joined: Tue Nov 27, 2012 1:37 pm

Re: Military Law

Postby PSH » Fri Dec 07, 2012 11:47 am

mmartinneal wrote:How great is the risk that you would not be accepted by the JAG board? I would think that someone who has gone through ROTC while in law school with decent grades would have a great shot...


You would have a great shot. However, any branch would still view your 4 years of ROTC and subsequent military commitment as just one factor in their ubiquitous "whole person approach." It would probably be a big plus in your favor, but not as big as say, actual prior experience.

Moreover, at the end of the day we are still talking about a career path with current acceptance rates on par with getting into a high level medical school. Competition is very fierce and supremely qualified candidates are rejected all the time. You would be putting all your eggs into the JAG basket and even if it boosted your odds from the statistical 5-10% to 15-20% that's still an 80% chance that you'll be fixing jeeps with your shiny new law degree.

I highly recommend you seek out the opinion of both a current Army JAG and a current Army recruiter. They will be able to give you better info than any of us regarding whether or not this is a good idea. However, don't be surprised if their answer is the same as mine. The military is highly non-committal when giving advice regarding how likely you are to get the job you want.

2012jagADselect
Posts: 2
Joined: Fri Dec 07, 2012 12:14 pm

Re: Military Law

Postby 2012jagADselect » Fri Dec 07, 2012 1:01 pm

Hello all,

I was offered a commission for AD during the Army JAG's most recent (2012) selection board, and I had no prior military experience. Just thought I'd share my experience and perspective as a first-time, non-military applicant who was selected. I'm happy to answer any questions, as well.

My take on the entire process is that the interview is the MOST important part of your application. And the notion that only 1-2 people per region are selected is bogus.

He spent most of the interview asking me how fit I was, and if I thought I could handle basic training and the PT requirements. He asked me a few questions about law school and my leadership experiences, but his emphasis was almost entirely on physical fitness. In fact, he told me that I was his #1 choice and that he would be recommending me before the interview was even halfway through (I was also only his 3rd interview of the day). I can only assume that he made this pre-judgment on the basis of my grades and simply confirmed his choice once I didn't screw up my interview. I'm sure most FSOs aren't like this, but that was my experience.

My FSO highlighted my grades and moot court experience as important aspects of my application, but made sure to note that his recommendation was the MOST important factor in terms of possible selection. He made it seem like I could half-ass my application and still be selected if he recommended me for AD. He was very frank with me and essentially said "If I recommend you, you will be selected, so tell me now if you're not fully committed to being an officer in the Army and I will give your spot to someone else."

I only had one letter of recommendation in my application, and it was from a professor who had no military affiliation whatsoever. In my personal statement, I emphasized my ties to the Army (however minimal) and my desire to serve. I also discussed the great opportunities presented to entry-level attorneys by the JAG Corps, noting that for me it wasn't simply a 4-year stop on the way to civil litigation, but a career choice.

My advice is to nail your interview. My experience tells me that grades are particularly important, along with moot court participation. Law review is somewhat of a factor, but not as much as moot court/trial teams. Prior military experience is not necessary, but showing a commitment to service definitely is. Also, show up to your interview looking great - i.e. in shape and pulled-together. Have something to share about your athleticism (I did gymnastics for a couple years in highschool, so clearly your athletic activities need not be collegiate-level) and emphasize what a great opportunity you think the JAG is - that you're excited about all the trial experience you'll get and the fact that you'll be serving your country instead of sitting in a cubicle reading documents.

Don't waste time collecting 4-5 LORs. Given that I only had 1 somewhat mediocre one, I have to assume that they aren't really that important.

thedude6512
Posts: 17
Joined: Tue Oct 28, 2008 11:32 pm

Re: Military Law

Postby thedude6512 » Sat Dec 08, 2012 12:45 am

mmartinneal wrote:My friend graduated last spring, did Army ROTC while in law school, and became a JAG. He said you can enrol in ROTC at your 2L year, but that after graduation you will be given a different branch until you pass the bar exam. Any info on this?


I'm in my last year of law school and am doing Army ROTC. Once I commission, I will go through the regular accessions process and be given a basic branch. If I get accepted for JAG, though, I will never go to BOLC for that branch. When I pass the bar, they'll send me to JABOLC.

Appleton4309 wrote:There is no benefit to doing it this way. JAG does there own applications so you have to go through the regular JAG board, and if you dont get selected then you have to do 4 years in a different branch of the Army with potentially a law degree. AKA you could be working in Human Resources with a JD and be obligated for 4 years.


That's not true. For one, it shows that you're committed to serving in the Army. While it doesn't guarantee you a spot in JAG, it definitely helps. Also, an ROTC scholarship can cover the entirety of your law school tuition. They also have loan repayment options. You could fulfill your service obligation in the Guard or Reserve if you wanted a civilian legal job.

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Esquire
Posts: 145
Joined: Thu Jul 09, 2009 2:45 pm

Re: Military Law

Postby Esquire » Sat Dec 08, 2012 8:45 am

2012jagADselect wrote:Hello all,

I was offered a commission for AD during the Army JAG's most recent (2012) selection board, and I had no prior military experience. Just thought I'd share my experience and perspective as a first-time, non-military applicant who was selected. I'm happy to answer any questions, as well.

My take on the entire process is that the interview is the MOST important part of your application. And the notion that only 1-2 people per region are selected is bogus.

He spent most of the interview asking me how fit I was, and if I thought I could handle basic training and the PT requirements. He asked me a few questions about law school and my leadership experiences, but his emphasis was almost entirely on physical fitness. In fact, he told me that I was his #1 choice and that he would be recommending me before the interview was even halfway through (I was also only his 3rd interview of the day). I can only assume that he made this pre-judgment on the basis of my grades and simply confirmed his choice once I didn't screw up my interview. I'm sure most FSOs aren't like this, but that was my experience.

My FSO highlighted my grades and moot court experience as important aspects of my application, but made sure to note that his recommendation was the MOST important factor in terms of possible selection. He made it seem like I could half-ass my application and still be selected if he recommended me for AD. He was very frank with me and essentially said "If I recommend you, you will be selected, so tell me now if you're not fully committed to being an officer in the Army and I will give your spot to someone else."

I only had one letter of recommendation in my application, and it was from a professor who had no military affiliation whatsoever. In my personal statement, I emphasized my ties to the Army (however minimal) and my desire to serve. I also discussed the great opportunities presented to entry-level attorneys by the JAG Corps, noting that for me it wasn't simply a 4-year stop on the way to civil litigation, but a career choice.

My advice is to nail your interview. My experience tells me that grades are particularly important, along with moot court participation. Law review is somewhat of a factor, but not as much as moot court/trial teams. Prior military experience is not necessary, but showing a commitment to service definitely is. Also, show up to your interview looking great - i.e. in shape and pulled-together. Have something to share about your athleticism (I did gymnastics for a couple years in highschool, so clearly your athletic activities need not be collegiate-level) and emphasize what a great opportunity you think the JAG is - that you're excited about all the trial experience you'll get and the fact that you'll be serving your country instead of sitting in a cubicle reading documents.

Don't waste time collecting 4-5 LORs. Given that I only had 1 somewhat mediocre one, I have to assume that they aren't really that important.

'Don't waste time collecting 4-5 LORs' is just bad advice.

Also, the regional thing has some merit. FSOs order their applicants. If an FSO has an entire region, it'll be an uphill battle to be 10th on that list and still get selected. If you're interviewing with someone who has a lot of credibility in the JAG Corps and you're raked 10th but he or she says to select you, it's likely a different story.

Unrelated, I've heard the selection rates are going up. Based on fewer applicants you have a better shot than a year or two ago. It's still not easy to get in, however.

2012jagADselect
Posts: 2
Joined: Fri Dec 07, 2012 12:14 pm

Re: Military Law

Postby 2012jagADselect » Sat Dec 08, 2012 11:03 am

Esquire wrote:
2012jagADselect wrote:Hello all,

I was offered a commission for AD during the Army JAG's most recent (2012) selection board, and I had no prior military experience. Just thought I'd share my experience and perspective as a first-time, non-military applicant who was selected. I'm happy to answer any questions, as well.

My take on the entire process is that the interview is the MOST important part of your application. And the notion that only 1-2 people per region are selected is bogus.

He spent most of the interview asking me how fit I was, and if I thought I could handle basic training and the PT requirements. He asked me a few questions about law school and my leadership experiences, but his emphasis was almost entirely on physical fitness. In fact, he told me that I was his #1 choice and that he would be recommending me before the interview was even halfway through (I was also only his 3rd interview of the day). I can only assume that he made this pre-judgment on the basis of my grades and simply confirmed his choice once I didn't screw up my interview. I'm sure most FSOs aren't like this, but that was my experience.

My FSO highlighted my grades and moot court experience as important aspects of my application, but made sure to note that his recommendation was the MOST important factor in terms of possible selection. He made it seem like I could half-ass my application and still be selected if he recommended me for AD. He was very frank with me and essentially said "If I recommend you, you will be selected, so tell me now if you're not fully committed to being an officer in the Army and I will give your spot to someone else."

I only had one letter of recommendation in my application, and it was from a professor who had no military affiliation whatsoever. In my personal statement, I emphasized my ties to the Army (however minimal) and my desire to serve. I also discussed the great opportunities presented to entry-level attorneys by the JAG Corps, noting that for me it wasn't simply a 4-year stop on the way to civil litigation, but a career choice.

My advice is to nail your interview. My experience tells me that grades are particularly important, along with moot court participation. Law review is somewhat of a factor, but not as much as moot court/trial teams. Prior military experience is not necessary, but showing a commitment to service definitely is. Also, show up to your interview looking great - i.e. in shape and pulled-together. Have something to share about your athleticism (I did gymnastics for a couple years in highschool, so clearly your athletic activities need not be collegiate-level) and emphasize what a great opportunity you think the JAG is - that you're excited about all the trial experience you'll get and the fact that you'll be serving your country instead of sitting in a cubicle reading documents.

Don't waste time collecting 4-5 LORs. Given that I only had 1 somewhat mediocre one, I have to assume that they aren't really that important.

'Don't waste time collecting 4-5 LORs' is just bad advice.

Also, the regional thing has some merit. FSOs order their applicants. If an FSO has an entire region, it'll be an uphill battle to be 10th on that list and still get selected. If you're interviewing with someone who has a lot of credibility in the JAG Corps and you're raked 10th but he or she says to select you, it's likely a different story.

Unrelated, I've heard the selection rates are going up. Based on fewer applicants you have a better shot than a year or two ago. It's still not easy to get in, however.



I wouldn't go so far as to say it's "bad advice." I'm just sharing my experience, and I only had one LOR. My FSO told me that I should try to submit one but noted that they aren't as important as your grades/his recommendation and sometimes aren't even looked at. I don't know if he was speaking from experience or assumption or if he was just making the application process seem easier. It seems like having 2-3 good letters from professors/supervisors/colleagues/former or current JAG officers is enough. I say this because I know someone who had 5 LORS, 3 of which were from current or former high-ranking JAGs/federal judges, had tons of moot court and trial experience, even prior military service, and was not selected. By all means, if you have 4-5 great recommenders, submit their LORS, but my opinion, from my experience, is that it may not be a particularly important factor in selection.

Also, with the regional thing - I've seen some posters say emphatically that always, without exception, only 1-2 people are selected from every region. After this year, where they selected multiple people (sometimes as many as 3-4) from the same schools, that just isn't true anymore.

adonai
Posts: 1033
Joined: Mon Apr 23, 2007 9:09 pm

Re: Military Law

Postby adonai » Sat Dec 08, 2012 2:00 pm

2012jagADselect wrote:

I wouldn't go so far as to say it's "bad advice." I'm just sharing my experience, and I only had one LOR. My FSO told me that I should try to submit one but noted that they aren't as important as your grades/his recommendation and sometimes aren't even looked at. I don't know if he was speaking from experience or assumption or if he was just making the application process seem easier. It seems like having 2-3 good letters from professors/supervisors/colleagues/former or current JAG officers is enough. I say this because I know someone who had 5 LORS, 3 of which were from current or former high-ranking JAGs/federal judges, had tons of moot court and trial experience, even prior military service, and was not selected. By all means, if you have 4-5 great recommenders, submit their LORS, but my opinion, from my experience, is that it may not be a particularly important factor in selection.

Also, with the regional thing - I've seen some posters say emphatically that always, without exception, only 1-2 people are selected from every region. After this year, where they selected multiple people (sometimes as many as 3-4) from the same schools, that just isn't true anymore.

So much for the "whole person" approach. JAG hiring is just like big law then according to you...just be a "Bro" with good grades. There are very differing accounts on selection here. So which one is really right?

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bouakedojo
Posts: 321
Joined: Thu Apr 16, 2009 3:08 pm

Re: Military Law

Postby bouakedojo » Sat Dec 08, 2012 2:29 pm

adonai wrote:
2012jagADselect wrote:

I wouldn't go so far as to say it's "bad advice." I'm just sharing my experience, and I only had one LOR. My FSO told me that I should try to submit one but noted that they aren't as important as your grades/his recommendation and sometimes aren't even looked at. I don't know if he was speaking from experience or assumption or if he was just making the application process seem easier. It seems like having 2-3 good letters from professors/supervisors/colleagues/former or current JAG officers is enough. I say this because I know someone who had 5 LORS, 3 of which were from current or former high-ranking JAGs/federal judges, had tons of moot court and trial experience, even prior military service, and was not selected. By all means, if you have 4-5 great recommenders, submit their LORS, but my opinion, from my experience, is that it may not be a particularly important factor in selection.

Also, with the regional thing - I've seen some posters say emphatically that always, without exception, only 1-2 people are selected from every region. After this year, where they selected multiple people (sometimes as many as 3-4) from the same schools, that just isn't true anymore.

So much for the "whole person" approach. JAG hiring is just like big law then according to you...just be a "Bro" with good grades. There are very differing accounts on selection here. So which one is really right?


Probably depends on the FSO.

target
Posts: 688
Joined: Tue Jul 26, 2011 6:40 pm

Re: Military Law

Postby target » Sat Dec 08, 2012 2:45 pm

bouakedojo wrote:
adonai wrote:So much for the "whole person" approach. JAG hiring is just like big law then according to you...just be a "Bro" with good grades. There are very differing accounts on selection here. So which one is really right?


Probably depends on the FSO.


So it's fair to say that like biglaw, if you can impress the "partner," you are in.

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Esquire
Posts: 145
Joined: Thu Jul 09, 2009 2:45 pm

Re: Military Law

Postby Esquire » Sat Dec 08, 2012 3:38 pm

adonai wrote:
2012jagADselect wrote:

I wouldn't go so far as to say it's "bad advice." I'm just sharing my experience, and I only had one LOR. My FSO told me that I should try to submit one but noted that they aren't as important as your grades/his recommendation and sometimes aren't even looked at. I don't know if he was speaking from experience or assumption or if he was just making the application process seem easier. It seems like having 2-3 good letters from professors/supervisors/colleagues/former or current JAG officers is enough. I say this because I know someone who had 5 LORS, 3 of which were from current or former high-ranking JAGs/federal judges, had tons of moot court and trial experience, even prior military service, and was not selected. By all means, if you have 4-5 great recommenders, submit their LORS, but my opinion, from my experience, is that it may not be a particularly important factor in selection.

Also, with the regional thing - I've seen some posters say emphatically that always, without exception, only 1-2 people are selected from every region. After this year, where they selected multiple people (sometimes as many as 3-4) from the same schools, that just isn't true anymore.

So much for the "whole person" approach. JAG hiring is just like big law then according to you...just be a "Bro" with good grades. There are very differing accounts on selection here. So which one is really right?

I literally laughed out loud.

ShockTop
Posts: 86
Joined: Sun Jan 30, 2011 10:23 pm

Re: Military Law

Postby ShockTop » Sat Dec 08, 2012 6:28 pm

Entirely unrelated, but I decided to print every page of this topic to PDF and combine all of them into a single PDF. It's 1,675 pages. Granted, a lot of this is due to the headers on each page.

PSH
Posts: 12
Joined: Tue Nov 27, 2012 1:37 pm

Re: Military Law

Postby PSH » Sun Dec 09, 2012 10:52 pm

Predictions on when we hear from the Navy? My vote is Tues.

votewarrior
Posts: 9
Joined: Sat Dec 08, 2012 8:02 pm

Re: Military Law

Postby votewarrior » Mon Dec 10, 2012 12:55 am

PSH wrote:Predictions on when we hear from the Navy? My vote is Tues.


That would have been my guess, but I'll take the under and say Mon. Mainly cuz I'm sick of refreshing the Navy Jag page

Myself
Posts: 1372
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.

Postby Myself » Mon Dec 10, 2012 1:58 am

.
Last edited by Myself on Tue Nov 19, 2013 10:23 am, edited 1 time in total.

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evilxs
Posts: 390
Joined: Wed Jun 10, 2009 1:21 pm

Re: Military Law

Postby evilxs » Mon Dec 10, 2012 10:49 am

ajax adonis wrote:So has Army JAG sent out their offers already?


No, under board review.

BetterCallSaul!
Posts: 25
Joined: Tue Sep 11, 2012 10:36 am

Re: Military Law

Postby BetterCallSaul! » Mon Dec 10, 2012 2:24 pm

Any word on when the AF board is meeting?!

I'll take speculation and/or rumors as well!

Neverow
Posts: 8
Joined: Wed Oct 24, 2012 4:57 pm

Re: Military Law

Postby Neverow » Mon Dec 10, 2012 2:46 pm

For the AF October board, people started getting calls on October 24th. I would imagine we hear right around Christmas. I remember reading that in previous years people heard right before the holiday.

My prediction for Army is that the list drops on January 4. This is 100% pure speculation. I went back through this message board and looked at previous Army notification dates:

Jan 9, 2010
Jan 6, 2011
Jan 5, 2012

We could be pushed back this year because of Sandy. Hope that helps. Good luck to all.

KWC2VL
Posts: 17
Joined: Tue Dec 04, 2012 11:29 am

Re: Military Law

Postby KWC2VL » Mon Dec 10, 2012 3:27 pm

The Army JAG Recruiting FB Page had a post on Nov. 28th that said results were expected out "around January 1," so calls that week with the list on the 4th seems pretty plausible even with Sandy.

I had to call the AF Recruiting Office with an application question recently and was told not to expect results until January. I don't know if that's just the standard date they give to allow some cushion or not, but just thought I'd share. Because Christmas Eve is on Monday this year, if calls started going out prior to Christmas, it would almost have to be by Friday the 21st. I guess we can see if anyone posts at the end of that week, and if not, take a breath and enjoy the Holidays.

Good luck to all.

ShockTop
Posts: 86
Joined: Sun Jan 30, 2011 10:23 pm

Re: Military Law

Postby ShockTop » Mon Dec 10, 2012 3:39 pm

This was posted to the Navy JAG Corps facebook page today:

US Navy JAG Corps Results will be released soon, via a change to your Application Status when you log in to the online application. Professionally Recommended applicants will also be contacted directly by the JAGC Accessions Office. for more info, visit
--LinkRemoved--

votewarrior
Posts: 9
Joined: Sat Dec 08, 2012 8:02 pm

Re: Military Law

Postby votewarrior » Mon Dec 10, 2012 4:52 pm

ShockTop wrote:This was posted to the Navy JAG Corps facebook page today:

US Navy JAG Corps Results will be released soon, via a change to your Application Status when you log in to the online application. Professionally Recommended applicants will also be contacted directly by the JAGC Accessions Office. for more info, visit
--LinkRemoved--



"Soon" is such a tease.

lawstudent123456
Posts: 2
Joined: Mon Dec 10, 2012 1:01 am

Re: Military Law

Postby lawstudent123456 » Mon Dec 10, 2012 5:30 pm

While I'm not saying this information isn't accurate, we should keep in mind that the Navy is a big organization with many moving parts.

The person in charge of the Facebook page may have simply copied and pasted the (vague) information from the website and based the "soon" on the eight-weeks listed there, rather than bother the accessions staff and ask them when the results will actually be ready.

Pogues
Posts: 12
Joined: Mon Feb 27, 2012 12:10 am

Re: Military Law

Postby Pogues » Mon Dec 10, 2012 8:23 pm

Esquire wrote:
Unrelated, I've heard the selection rates are going up. Based on fewer applicants you have a better shot than a year or two ago. It's still not easy to get in, however.


That is the best news I've heard in a long time.

travellingboarder
Posts: 67
Joined: Sat Dec 08, 2012 1:58 am

Re: Military Law

Postby travellingboarder » Mon Dec 10, 2012 8:32 pm

Pogues wrote:
Esquire wrote:
Unrelated, I've heard the selection rates are going up. Based on fewer applicants you have a better shot than a year or two ago. It's still not easy to get in, however.


That is the best news I've heard in a long time.


Yep...this is great news!




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