Military Law

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Pogues
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Re: Military Law

Postby Pogues » Tue Nov 20, 2012 2:07 pm

At what point does an Army JAG applicant incur a service obligation? Is it right after the board's selection in January, or are there additional steps before the service obligation?

Same question for Air Force. From what I remember during my SJA interview, it sounded like there was no service obligation until the applicant receives a base assignment. Is that correct?

Jagjen82
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Re: Military Law

Postby Jagjen82 » Tue Nov 20, 2012 2:24 pm

Pogues wrote:At what point does an Army JAG applicant incur a service obligation? Is it right after the board's selection in January, or are there additional steps before the service obligation?

Same question for Air Force. From what I remember during my SJA interview, it sounded like there was no service obligation until the applicant receives a base assignment. Is that correct?


For Army JAG, your obligation doesn't begin till your first day of training when you take your oath - not when selected in January.

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evilxs
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Re: Military Law

Postby evilxs » Tue Nov 20, 2012 3:54 pm

-Under Completeness Review for me as well. I applied Direct Appointment... :mrgreen:

Texan09
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Re: Military Law

Postby Texan09 » Tue Nov 20, 2012 11:24 pm

Fiction wrote:Sorry I wasn't clear.

I was wondering--what is the likelihood of a person selected for the 2L internship (assuming he has a good evaluation and gets some good LORs) will get picked up for active duty?

Like is having the 2L internship a lock for selection or is it just a nice resume line?


I had a 2L internship with the Army this summer. There was a change of the deputy SJA while I was there. The incoming SJAs previous assignment was commanding JARO. She had a lot of valuable information.

According to her the goal this cycle is to accept around 80% of interns.

She has never sat on a selection board though. This was more of a goal for JARO and the FSOs than a hard and fast line. The selection board will choose whoever they want.

Mr. Worf
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Re: Military Law

Postby Mr. Worf » Fri Nov 23, 2012 11:55 am

2L here applying for JAG summer internships. JAG felt like a black hole before I found this thread, thanks to everyone who has contributed!

Just curious if anyone knows how the Boards look at unpaid summer intern work? If I'm not selected for one of the paid summer internships, I'm considering working at a local Air Force base (the SJA gave me the thumbs up) this summer. I know getting one of the paid internships is good when applying for DA, is there any similar boost with unpaid work, other than hopefully a good letter of recommendation?

If this has already been covered in one of the 146 forum pages, then I must've missed it, sorry.

Thanks.

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Patrick Bateman
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Re: Military Law

Postby Patrick Bateman » Fri Nov 23, 2012 2:29 pm

Mr. Worf wrote:2L here applying for JAG summer internships. JAG felt like a black hole before I found this thread, thanks to everyone who has contributed!

Just curious if anyone knows how the Boards look at unpaid summer intern work? If I'm not selected for one of the paid summer internships, I'm considering working at a local Air Force base (the SJA gave me the thumbs up) this summer. I know getting one of the paid internships is good when applying for DA, is there any similar boost with unpaid work, other than hopefully a good letter of recommendation?

If this has already been covered in one of the 146 forum pages, then I must've missed it, sorry.

Thanks.


Good question.

I would highly recommend going the unpaid route in the event you do not get picked up for the official intern program. I've never been able to get a good feel for how many extra "points" an applicant may get by going through the official program versus the ad-hoc volunteer one. While there is something to be said to already having an application favorably reviewed by a JAX and getting competitively selected, I also think having the initiative and determination to arrange an unpaid internship speaks a lot about how seriously an applicant wants to pursue JAG.

The true pay off with the internship comes from being able to prove yourself over 10 weeks in a legal office and having that reflected by the SJA in the interview. It is much easier to demonstrate you have the ability to fit in and excel in the military over a 10 week window that in a 90 minute interview.

Having worked with a few unpaid interns in the past: if you end up going that route, work early with whoever your handler is (usually one of the Captains or the Law Office Superintendent) on how to get computer access. Official interns are DOD hires, so it is easy enough to get them a CAC and access to the network. If you volunteer, that is not always the case. Sometimes it can be worked out - other times you might be bringing in your own laptop. I had one unpaid intern who ended up getting a wireless card/wi-fi hotspot so he could do research and have email access.

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Dostoevsky
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Re: Military Law

Postby Dostoevsky » Fri Nov 23, 2012 4:59 pm

Anyone else "Pending Board Decision" for Nov Army board?

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Dostoevsky
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Re: Military Law

Postby Dostoevsky » Fri Nov 23, 2012 5:02 pm

adonai wrote:Got a 3 hour interview coming up for AF OYCP. What could possibly be asked that could take 3 hours? I'd imagine the AF DAP interviews are much shorter. Is it cause OYCP is such a small program that they need 3 hours in order to differentiate all the candidates?


My AF DAP interview was 3 hours.

adonai
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Re: Military Law

Postby adonai » Fri Nov 23, 2012 5:43 pm

Dostoevsky wrote:
adonai wrote:Got a 3 hour interview coming up for AF OYCP. What could possibly be asked that could take 3 hours? I'd imagine the AF DAP interviews are much shorter. Is it cause OYCP is such a small program that they need 3 hours in order to differentiate all the candidates?


My AF DAP interview was 3 hours.

How does the interview work such that it takes that long?

Wolverhoo
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Re: Military Law

Postby Wolverhoo » Fri Nov 23, 2012 8:11 pm

Dostoevsky wrote:Anyone else "Pending Board Decision" for Nov Army board?


Mine changed also (yesterday, I think).

wedge96
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Re: Military Law

Postby wedge96 » Fri Nov 23, 2012 8:39 pm

Patrick Bateman wrote:
Mr. Worf wrote:2L here applying for JAG summer internships. JAG felt like a black hole before I found this thread, thanks to everyone who has contributed!

Just curious if anyone knows how the Boards look at unpaid summer intern work? If I'm not selected for one of the paid summer internships, I'm considering working at a local Air Force base (the SJA gave me the thumbs up) this summer. I know getting one of the paid internships is good when applying for DA, is there any similar boost with unpaid work, other than hopefully a good letter of recommendation?

If this has already been covered in one of the 146 forum pages, then I must've missed it, sorry.

Thanks.


Good question.

I would highly recommend going the unpaid route in the event you do not get picked up for the official intern program. I've never been able to get a good feel for how many extra "points" an applicant may get by going through the official program versus the ad-hoc volunteer one. While there is something to be said to already having an application favorably reviewed by a JAX and getting competitively selected, I also think having the initiative and determination to arrange an unpaid internship speaks a lot about how seriously an applicant wants to pursue JAG.

The true pay off with the internship comes from being able to prove yourself over 10 weeks in a legal office and having that reflected by the SJA in the interview. It is much easier to demonstrate you have the ability to fit in and excel in the military over a 10 week window that in a 90 minute interview.

Having worked with a few unpaid interns in the past: if you end up going that route, work early with whoever your handler is (usually one of the Captains or the Law Office Superintendent) on how to get computer access. Official interns are DOD hires, so it is easy enough to get them a CAC and access to the network. If you volunteer, that is not always the case. Sometimes it can be worked out - other times you might be bringing in your own laptop. I had one unpaid intern who ended up getting a wireless card/wi-fi hotspot so he could do research and have email access.


FWIW: I wasn't selected for the Army or AF paid internships so I volunteered at a local AF base legal office. I worked there all summer (~12 weeks), did as much legal work I could (criminal, legal assistance, procurement, environmental, real estate, etc.), talked a lot with everyone in the office about the AF and JAG Corps, did group PT with the office, sat in on all staff meetings and video teleconferences, and saw every hearing/courtroom proceeding I could. After my internship I interviewed with the SJA there and got picked up on my first board.

I heard that the SJA asked everyone in the office for their opinion of me when I interviewed to get a better idea of me and whether I would be a good fit in the AF. Also, everyone in the office, the SJA included, seemed impressed that I worked my entire 2L summer there for free and I think it made a difference when she wrote my interview report. I think the paid internship shows the AF is at least interested in you, but I definitely think the unpaid route can help as well.

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Dostoevsky
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Re: Military Law

Postby Dostoevsky » Sat Nov 24, 2012 12:37 am

adonai wrote:
Dostoevsky wrote:
adonai wrote:Got a 3 hour interview coming up for AF OYCP. What could possibly be asked that could take 3 hours? I'd imagine the AF DAP interviews are much shorter. Is it cause OYCP is such a small program that they need 3 hours in order to differentiate all the candidates?


My AF DAP interview was 3 hours.

How does the interview work such that it takes that long?


We went through my resume with a fine-tooth comb. I appreciated that the SJA took the time, though.

shock259
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Re: Military Law

Postby shock259 » Sat Nov 24, 2012 12:54 pm

adonai wrote:
Dostoevsky wrote:
adonai wrote:Got a 3 hour interview coming up for AF OYCP. What could possibly be asked that could take 3 hours? I'd imagine the AF DAP interviews are much shorter. Is it cause OYCP is such a small program that they need 3 hours in order to differentiate all the candidates?


My AF DAP interview was 3 hours.

How does the interview work such that it takes that long?


My AF interview was about 3 hours too. I met with probably 3-4 Captains first. It was a lot of informal chatting, Q&A, and some other basic stuff. Then I met with the SJA for about an hour and a half. We went over every little thing on my resume in detail. The whole interview was a relatively low-pressure, fun environment.

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shepdawg
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Re: Military Law

Postby shepdawg » Sat Nov 24, 2012 12:56 pm

adonai wrote:
Dostoevsky wrote:
My AF DAP interview was 3 hours.

How does the interview work such that it takes that long?

They ask you about your entire life, starting in high school. They ask about tons of personal stuff that would not be asked at a normal interview.

target
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Re: Military Law

Postby target » Sat Nov 24, 2012 1:39 pm

shock259 wrote:
adonai wrote:
Dostoevsky wrote:
adonai wrote:Got a 3 hour interview coming up for AF OYCP. What could possibly be asked that could take 3 hours? I'd imagine the AF DAP interviews are much shorter. Is it cause OYCP is such a small program that they need 3 hours in order to differentiate all the candidates?


My AF DAP interview was 3 hours.

How does the interview work such that it takes that long?


My AF interview was about 3 hours too. I met with probably 3-4 Captains first. It was a lot of informal chatting, Q&A, and some other basic stuff. Then I met with the SJA for about an hour and a half. We went over every little thing on my resume in detail. The whole interview was a relatively low-pressure, fun environment.


Did they ask any formal questions like Navy JAG interview?

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Patrick Bateman
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Re: Military Law

Postby Patrick Bateman » Sat Nov 24, 2012 2:00 pm

shepdawg wrote:
adonai wrote:
Dostoevsky wrote:
My AF DAP interview was 3 hours.

How does the interview work such that it takes that long?

They ask you about your entire life, starting in high school. They ask about tons of personal stuff that would not be asked at a normal interview.


Image

Do you think I'm cute, Private Pyle? Do you think I'm funny?

shock259
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Re: Military Law

Postby shock259 » Sat Nov 24, 2012 2:17 pm

I didn't do the Navy JAG interview but based on what I've heard about it, no. I got asked the typical questions: Why do you want to serve? Why AF? Why did you go to law school? etc. And then we went over my resume for a long while. But no scenario-based questions like the Navy.

Oh, I also got asked about any counseling or therapy that I have done in the past. That kinda blindsided me and I don't think I gave a very good response. If you've had any of that stuff in the past, I'd recommend thinking that answer through beforehand.

target
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Re: Military Law

Postby target » Sat Nov 24, 2012 8:17 pm

shock259 wrote:I didn't do the Navy JAG interview but based on what I've heard about it, no. I got asked the typical questions: Why do you want to serve? Why AF? Why did you go to law school? etc. And then we went over my resume for a long while. But no scenario-based questions like the Navy.

Oh, I also got asked about any counseling or therapy that I have done in the past. That kinda blindsided me and I don't think I gave a very good response. If you've had any of that stuff in the past, I'd recommend thinking that answer through beforehand.


Cool, this is good to know.

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oberlin08
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Re: Military Law

Postby oberlin08 » Sun Nov 25, 2012 2:09 pm

evilxs wrote:-Under Completeness Review for me as well. I applied Direct Appointment... :mrgreen:



Me too for Active Duty.

Did anyone who applied for Active Duty also clicked the box(es) that asked about interest in Reserve Duty or your State's National Guard?

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Dostoevsky
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Re: Military Law

Postby Dostoevsky » Sun Nov 25, 2012 9:08 pm

oberlin08 wrote:
evilxs wrote:-Under Completeness Review for me as well. I applied Direct Appointment... :mrgreen:



Me too for Active Duty.

Did anyone who applied for Active Duty also clicked the box(es) that asked about interest in Reserve Duty or your State's National Guard?


I did, but I'd strongly prefer AD. I applied AF as well, also ticking all of the boxes. I was a little concerned that I'd appear less eager (somehow) if I said "this and only this."

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Dostoevsky
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Re: Military Law

Postby Dostoevsky » Sun Nov 25, 2012 9:11 pm

shock259 wrote:
adonai wrote:
Dostoevsky wrote:
adonai wrote:Got a 3 hour interview coming up for AF OYCP. What could possibly be asked that could take 3 hours? I'd imagine the AF DAP interviews are much shorter. Is it cause OYCP is such a small program that they need 3 hours in order to differentiate all the candidates?


My AF DAP interview was 3 hours.

How does the interview work such that it takes that long?



My AF interview was about 3 hours too. I met with probably 3-4 Captains first. It was a lot of informal chatting, Q&A, and some other basic stuff. Then I met with the SJA for about an hour and a half. We went over every little thing on my resume in detail. The whole interview was a relatively low-pressure, fun environment.


I spent the whole 3 hours with the SJA. :shock:
He was really nice, friendly etc. Law school has made me neurotic in interviews.

megamanx
Posts: 32
Joined: Wed Mar 09, 2011 5:51 pm

Re: Military Law

Postby megamanx » Mon Nov 26, 2012 2:37 pm

wedge96 wrote:
Patrick Bateman wrote:
Mr. Worf wrote:2L here applying for JAG summer internships. JAG felt like a black hole before I found this thread, thanks to everyone who has contributed!

Just curious if anyone knows how the Boards look at unpaid summer intern work? If I'm not selected for one of the paid summer internships, I'm considering working at a local Air Force base (the SJA gave me the thumbs up) this summer. I know getting one of the paid internships is good when applying for DA, is there any similar boost with unpaid work, other than hopefully a good letter of recommendation?

If this has already been covered in one of the 146 forum pages, then I must've missed it, sorry.

Thanks.


Good question.

I would highly recommend going the unpaid route in the event you do not get picked up for the official intern program. I've never been able to get a good feel for how many extra "points" an applicant may get by going through the official program versus the ad-hoc volunteer one. While there is something to be said to already having an application favorably reviewed by a JAX and getting competitively selected, I also think having the initiative and determination to arrange an unpaid internship speaks a lot about how seriously an applicant wants to pursue JAG.

The true pay off with the internship comes from being able to prove yourself over 10 weeks in a legal office and having that reflected by the SJA in the interview. It is much easier to demonstrate you have the ability to fit in and excel in the military over a 10 week window that in a 90 minute interview.

Having worked with a few unpaid interns in the past: if you end up going that route, work early with whoever your handler is (usually one of the Captains or the Law Office Superintendent) on how to get computer access. Official interns are DOD hires, so it is easy enough to get them a CAC and access to the network. If you volunteer, that is not always the case. Sometimes it can be worked out - other times you might be bringing in your own laptop. I had one unpaid intern who ended up getting a wireless card/wi-fi hotspot so he could do research and have email access.


FWIW: I wasn't selected for the Army or AF paid internships so I volunteered at a local AF base legal office. I worked there all summer (~12 weeks), did as much legal work I could (criminal, legal assistance, procurement, environmental, real estate, etc.), talked a lot with everyone in the office about the AF and JAG Corps, did group PT with the office, sat in on all staff meetings and video teleconferences, and saw every hearing/courtroom proceeding I could. After my internship I interviewed with the SJA there and got picked up on my first board.

I heard that the SJA asked everyone in the office for their opinion of me when I interviewed to get a better idea of me and whether I would be a good fit in the AF. Also, everyone in the office, the SJA included, seemed impressed that I worked my entire 2L summer there for free and I think it made a difference when she wrote my interview report. I think the paid internship shows the AF is at least interested in you, but I definitely think the unpaid route can help as well.


This is a damn good idea that a few guys I knew took advantage of last summer. However, make sure the base (not just the JAG office) will allow such an internship to work. I worked with a volunteer intern last year that was told week one that he would not be getting a CAC card and therefore couldn't access any office computers the entire summer.

PSH
Posts: 12
Joined: Tue Nov 27, 2012 1:37 pm

Re: Military Law

Postby PSH » Tue Nov 27, 2012 2:43 pm

Hi 2L here. Applied to the Navy SP for the October Boards. Anyone hear anything yet?

target
Posts: 688
Joined: Tue Jul 26, 2011 6:40 pm

Re: Military Law

Postby target » Tue Nov 27, 2012 2:56 pm

PSH wrote:Hi 2L here. Applied to the Navy SP for the October Boards. Anyone hear anything yet?


Do we even know if they will call people or just change the status on the website?

PSH
Posts: 12
Joined: Tue Nov 27, 2012 1:37 pm

Re: Military Law

Postby PSH » Tue Nov 27, 2012 3:03 pm

target wrote:
PSH wrote:Hi 2L here. Applied to the Navy SP for the October Boards. Anyone hear anything yet?


Do we even know if they will call people or just change the status on the website?


According to the FAQ on the site people will be made aware through a status change and they will be called. My assumption is that the call will be made after the status change. They said around 8 weeks, which would be Dec. 7. But they have been quick throughout this process (at least for me) so I'd not be surprised if the status changes started rolling in this week or next week.




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