Military Law

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shir9650
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Re: Military Law

Postby shir9650 » Sun Nov 11, 2012 5:35 pm

Out of curiosity, what are the available duty stations for the 190th JAOBC?

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Esquire
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Re: Military Law

Postby Esquire » Mon Nov 12, 2012 6:25 am

howell wrote:
Jagjen82 wrote:For anyone curious and interested in the timeline, those of us in the 190th JAOBC (Army) starting in February received our list of possible duty locations yesterday - about three months out from our start date.

Just curious, but how does that work? Is that just them narrowing it down, or do you have some ability to select your duty location?

They give you a list of locations. You put in for your preferences. They use that preference sheet to help determine where to put the new JAGs.

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erw0331
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Re: Military Law

Postby erw0331 » Mon Nov 12, 2012 4:25 pm

Has anyone on here done PLC for the Marine Corps after their during their 1L or 2L summer? I've spoken with my local recruiter and am trying to make the decision over the next month or so if this is something that I want to move on. I'm also interested in the Navy's JAG program, and I know that they're quite different processes. If anyone has been through this decision, any info or advice you could give would be incredibly helpful.

Fiction
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Re: Military Law

Postby Fiction » Mon Nov 12, 2012 5:59 pm

edit
Last edited by Fiction on Wed May 14, 2014 9:56 am, edited 1 time in total.

Fed_Atty
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Re: Military Law

Postby Fed_Atty » Mon Nov 12, 2012 6:59 pm

Fiction wrote:Considering applying for the Army 2L internship. If I get selected for the Army internship, what are my chances at getting accepted to Active Duty?

It is like 90% who get accepted to the internship get taken on for active duty or is it more like one more nice resume line?


This is purely anecdotal and not based on first hand knowledge - I did the 1L Army Internship - the Major who interviewed me and ultimately forwarded the offer stated that many people do the 1L internship who have no desire to go on Active Duty. However, that may simply be because there is so little paid work available 1L. I would think that people who do the 2L internship ultimately plan on applying for a spot once they graduate. For the Navy, internship experience is valued - I have to believe it is similar for the Army.

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bouakedojo
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Re: Military Law

Postby bouakedojo » Mon Nov 12, 2012 8:03 pm

Fiction wrote:Considering applying for the Army 2L internship. If I get selected for the Army internship, what are my chances at getting accepted to Active Duty?

It is like 90% who get accepted to the internship get taken on for active duty or is it more like one more nice resume line?


Are you considering applying for next year? I think the deadline has passed already (Nov. 8 ).

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Scotusnerd
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Re: Military Law

Postby Scotusnerd » Mon Nov 12, 2012 8:41 pm

Just as a reminder, there's no longer any 1L internships available. We were told the Army one was gone, and the Air Force recently changed their site. The only one left is the unpaid Navy, but unless you're near a base and/or have lots of money, that one is unfeasible. Marines never did any internships except for candidates already accepted.

Jredelman15
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Re: Military Law

Postby Jredelman15 » Mon Nov 12, 2012 8:58 pm

I am going to law school with the sole intention of doing JAG. I am looking for insight on how to make this dream a reality. What should I be doing now? What should I do while in law school other than working internships? Is this a bad idea? I have family in the Army but they don't know much about JAG. Thanks for the help

chicubs88
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Re: Military Law

Postby chicubs88 » Mon Nov 12, 2012 9:02 pm

erw0331 wrote:Has anyone on here done PLC for the Marine Corps after their during their 1L or 2L summer? I've spoken with my local recruiter and am trying to make the decision over the next month or so if this is something that I want to move on. I'm also interested in the Navy's JAG program, and I know that they're quite different processes. If anyone has been through this decision, any info or advice you could give would be incredibly helpful.


I did Marine JAG PLC Law this summer. Is there anything specific you want to know about? If you asked me "What's the best thing about Marine JAG," I would tell you that I started this year(my 2L) knowing that I have a job when I graduate. I can't stress enough how assume it feels. The only down side is that my grades are likely to drop, given that I no longer have the immense amount of motivation(fear) that I did during 1L.

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Ruxin1
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Re: Military Law

Postby Ruxin1 » Mon Nov 12, 2012 9:03 pm

Jredelman15 wrote:I am going to law school with the sole intention of doing JAG. I am looking for insight on how to make this dream a reality. What should I be doing now? What should I do while in law school other than working internships? Is this a bad idea? I have family in the Army but they don't know much about JAG. Thanks for the help


Not to be a dick but if this is your dream why don't you read all 144 pages of this thread first?

Jredelman15
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Re: Military Law

Postby Jredelman15 » Mon Nov 12, 2012 9:05 pm

Ruxin1 wrote:
Jredelman15 wrote:I am going to law school with the sole intention of doing JAG. I am looking for insight on how to make this dream a reality. What should I be doing now? What should I do while in law school other than working internships? Is this a bad idea? I have family in the Army but they don't know much about JAG. Thanks for the help


Not to be a dick but if this is your dream why don't you read all 144 pages of this thread first?


Just thought I could get a quick answer. I have been following this page for awhile and I have not seen anything about what I should be doing in undergrad. I saw volunteer I was just looking for more insight.

target
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Re: Military Law

Postby target » Tue Nov 13, 2012 2:09 am

Jredelman15 wrote:
Ruxin1 wrote:
Jredelman15 wrote:I am going to law school with the sole intention of doing JAG. I am looking for insight on how to make this dream a reality. What should I be doing now? What should I do while in law school other than working internships? Is this a bad idea? I have family in the Army but they don't know much about JAG. Thanks for the help


Not to be a dick but if this is your dream why don't you read all 144 pages of this thread first?


Just thought I could get a quick answer. I have been following this page for awhile and I have not seen anything about what I should be doing in undergrad. I saw volunteer I was just looking for more insight.


If you are still an undergrad, there is not much you can do besides staying out of troubles. The second thing to do is start reading through this thread.

Jredelman15
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Re: Military Law

Postby Jredelman15 » Tue Nov 13, 2012 2:39 am

target wrote:
Jredelman15 wrote:
Ruxin1 wrote:
Jredelman15 wrote:I am going to law school with the sole intention of doing JAG. I am looking for insight on how to make this dream a reality. What should I be doing now? What should I do while in law school other than working internships? Is this a bad idea? I have family in the Army but they don't know much about JAG. Thanks for the help


Not to be a dick but if this is your dream why don't you read all 144 pages of this thread first?


Just thought I could get a quick answer. I have been following this page for awhile and I have not seen anything about what I should be doing in undergrad. I saw volunteer I was just looking for more insight.


If you are still an undergrad, there is not much you can do besides staying out of troubles. The second thing to do is start reading through this thread.


Is there any organization to join or any volunteering that the boards value more highly?

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Scotusnerd
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Re: Military Law

Postby Scotusnerd » Tue Nov 13, 2012 9:52 am

Jredelman15 wrote:I am going to law school with the sole intention of doing JAG. I am looking for insight on how to make this dream a reality. What should I be doing now? What should I do while in law school other than working internships? Is this a bad idea? I have family in the Army but they don't know much about JAG. Thanks for the help


You might want to rethink that. I'm glad that you want to serve your country, but the numbers I've heard are not good news for people like us JAG hopefuls. A navy JAG told me that they recieved 2-3k applications last year, and accepted 35. I heard that the AF accepts about 100. The Army accepts about the same amount from what I remember. This is for the entire country.

Not to put too fine a point on it, but see if you really want to practice law first. There is a very good chance you will not get JAG. Someone will be more connected than you, or more fit than you, or just have a face the recruiters like more than you. If you get it, wonderful, but take a serious look at how much law school costs, and whether it's worth it or not. Look at other areas of law you want to do. I'd take the time to study and do well on the LSAT, along with doing some form of volunteering that involves leadership. Find something that interests you. Enjoy life a little.

If you still want to go to law school and only do JAG, be aware that you are purchasing the most expensive lottery ticket in existence.

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howell
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Re: Military Law

Postby howell » Tue Nov 13, 2012 10:47 am

Jredelman15 wrote:I am going to law school with the sole intention of doing JAG. I am looking for insight on how to make this dream a reality. What should I be doing now? What should I do while in law school other than working internships? Is this a bad idea? I have family in the Army but they don't know much about JAG. Thanks for the help

As mentioned, JAG is extremely selective, with recent selection boards generally having single digit selection rates. A lot of very qualified candidates don't make it in. Understand that you could do everything "right" and still not end up with a position. Off the top of my head, here are the things you should be doing based on your post:

1. Find out as much about JAG and the different branches as you can. Each branch is a bit different, with some being very different. Make sure you know what a JAG officer's duties in the branch(es) you're looking at are what you want to do on a day-to-day basis. The best way to do this would be to speak with JAG officers in the different branches. There is also a lot of information in this thread on a JAG's daily life and the differences between the branches. This will ultimately let you target a branch or branches (if any) and let you focus on the correct timeline(s) for getting accepted. Once you identify a branch or branches, certainly start looking at the different paths in (check the websites for the branches you're interested in and this thread too).

2. Find out if you would be disqualified or highly unlikely to be selected now. Look into the MEPS process and make sure you don't have anything that would disqualify you or require an unlikely waiver. Make sure your criminal and drug histories are in line with what JAG is looking for. Make sure you're young enough to pursue the branch(es) you're looking for. Make sure you can fit the height/weight and fitness guidelines. You don't want to go through 3 years of law school only to find out that you never had a shot to begin with.

3. Start doing things to make law school acceptance easier, and identify schools that will fit your needs. You'll of course want as high an LSAT score and GPA as possible, so do your best to improve those. Then start identifying schools that you can get into and/or get money from. JAG selection seems pretty unrelated to school rank (there are discussions of this throughout this thread), so attending a school ranked lower but with scholarships might be the better decision. Less law school debt will mean you can start enjoying your JAG salary sooner and will also let your pursue backup plans more easily.

4. This is the step you were asking about, I think - craft your resume to fit what JAG selection boards are looking for. Pursue leadership positions in whatever ways possible. This could include leading student organizations, church groups, volunteer efforts, supervisory positions at work, etc. Show an interest in government service. Try to intern with government organizations or, if possible, federal agencies. Show an interest in community service, which can be very different from government service. Get involved in a church, a volunteer organization, or something of the kind. Show an interest in athletics - intramural teams, individual sports, whatever. Just show a strong history of athletic involvement. All of these things are not necessary, but they can all help, they are things you can do now, and they are likely things that will have a positive impact on your life even if you don't end up in JAG.

5. Identify backup plans. This isn't as much fun, but it's necessary. Not knowing your reasons for wanting to do JAG, you might even want to consider just joining as a non-JAG officer, so look into that too. But know that even if there is nothing likely to disqualify you and even if you do everything everyone suggests, you may still not get selected. There's no guarantee the military will even have as many JAG positions in 3-4 years when you get out. So you need to understand that and start thinking about what you might do if that happens. Taking on less debt in law school fits in with this. A lot of people interested in JAG are also the type that would enjoy DA/PD work or working as a government attorney in other capacities. The same resume that you craft for a JAG spot would probably work very well for a DA/PD/government position. Or maybe you wouldn't want to practice law outside of JAG. These are things you need to consider now too. It doesn't mean you shouldn't put 100% effort into getting into JAG, it's just being prepared for the worst.

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howell
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Re: Military Law

Postby howell » Tue Nov 13, 2012 10:58 am

There's at least one other thing I left out:

Start building relationships with mentors (professors, managers, etc.) such that these people can write you letters of recommendation for both law school and possibly JAG. Knowing how to foster these relationships can have a huge impact on JAG selection and your life in general. I'm sure people have bullshitted their way through these relationships before and done just fine, but I would encourage you to be genuine in your efforts in this area. There is so much you can learn from people like this outside of the advantages they can give you professionally. If you're going into the military, knowing how to make these relationships work (for both parties) will make your life so much easier (and enjoyable, in my opinion). Continue to do this as you go along - in jobs, internships, law school, etc.

thekc7
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Re: Military Law

Postby thekc7 » Wed Nov 14, 2012 11:53 am

Hello all! I have applied to the Army November board and the AF December board. I've completed both applications and had both interviews. My Army interviewer was very complimentary, telling me that I was very articulate and that I was a very good candidate. My AF interviewer didn't give any feedback, and I didn't feel comfortable asking for any at that time. Just wondering if anyone else received that kind of feedback during their interview and whether you ended up being selected then?

Obviously, I know that all interviewers are different, and that some will simply choose not to offer feed back, so I'm not taking the AF interviewer's non-feedback negatively. I'm more curious as to how much I should read into the Army interviewer's good feedback.

Thanks!

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howell
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Re: Military Law

Postby howell » Wed Nov 14, 2012 12:18 pm

thekc7 wrote:Hello all! I have applied to the Army November board and the AF December board. I've completed both applications and had both interviews. My Army interviewer was very complimentary, telling me that I was very articulate and that I was a very good candidate. My AF interviewer didn't give any feedback, and I didn't feel comfortable asking for any at that time. Just wondering if anyone else received that kind of feedback during their interview and whether you ended up being selected then?

Obviously, I know that all interviewers are different, and that some will simply choose not to offer feed back, so I'm not taking the AF interviewer's non-feedback negatively. I'm more curious as to how much I should read into the Army interviewer's good feedback.

Thanks!

I'm basing my response off of having interviewed several times and having spoken to several interviewing officers. I have never sat on a selection board; I have only spoken to those that have, and probably not too recently. So if someone has a better idea of how the selection boards actually do their work, that would be more helpful than most of what I can offer.

Unfortunately, you probably cannot read much into either one. Certainly the feedback from the Army interview is positive, but you don't know who else was interviewing with the same person. Consider that they might have been interviewing someone who had interned in that very office and had been trying to get in for a couple of boards already or the interviewer knew exactly how much work the other person had done to prepare. The likelihood that you will get a more positive recommendation than this other person is low. However, you might have been the only one with a pulse that walked through the door.

For the AF interview, one of the SJAs I interviewed with would have a phenomenal poker face - I had actually interned for her but would never have known what she thought about me if she hadn't told me later. She was extremely polite, professional, and very hard to read. That didn't mean anything good or bad for me during the interview, though.

Something else you don't know is how good of a recommendation your interviewer can write in general. Even if you blew them away, your interviewer's review may come off as tepid without meaning to. Every interviewer is likely to have a top candidate that they interviewed.

Another thing to consider (though you didn't explicitly ask about this) is that different lines of questioning during interviews may not mean what you think. If you have some kind of problem with your package (like an old credit issue or something that isn't an auto-ding), your interviewer might ask you a lot of questions about that instead of how amazing the rest of your package is. This might be to determine if they want to give a positive recommendation, or it might be so that they know exactly how to spin any negatives on your application if they really want to give you a great recommendation.

tl;dr - Reading the tea leaves is nigh impossible.

BetterCallSaul!
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Re: Military Law

Postby BetterCallSaul! » Wed Nov 14, 2012 2:34 pm

How does the judge advocate setup work at joint bases? For example, is there a lot of interaction between the Army and Air Force JAs at a base like Lewis-McChord? Or do they have their own office and operate from within their respective purview?

thekc7
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Re: Military Law

Postby thekc7 » Wed Nov 14, 2012 7:17 pm

howell wrote:
thekc7 wrote:Hello all! I have applied to the Army November board and the AF December board. I've completed both applications and had both interviews. My Army interviewer was very complimentary, telling me that I was very articulate and that I was a very good candidate. My AF interviewer didn't give any feedback, and I didn't feel comfortable asking for any at that time. Just wondering if anyone else received that kind of feedback during their interview and whether you ended up being selected then?

Obviously, I know that all interviewers are different, and that some will simply choose not to offer feed back, so I'm not taking the AF interviewer's non-feedback negatively. I'm more curious as to how much I should read into the Army interviewer's good feedback.

Thanks!

I'm basing my response off of having interviewed several times and having spoken to several interviewing officers. I have never sat on a selection board; I have only spoken to those that have, and probably not too recently. So if someone has a better idea of how the selection boards actually do their work, that would be more helpful than most of what I can offer.

Unfortunately, you probably cannot read much into either one. Certainly the feedback from the Army interview is positive, but you don't know who else was interviewing with the same person. Consider that they might have been interviewing someone who had interned in that very office and had been trying to get in for a couple of boards already or the interviewer knew exactly how much work the other person had done to prepare. The likelihood that you will get a more positive recommendation than this other person is low. However, you might have been the only one with a pulse that walked through the door.

For the AF interview, one of the SJAs I interviewed with would have a phenomenal poker face - I had actually interned for her but would never have known what she thought about me if she hadn't told me later. She was extremely polite, professional, and very hard to read. That didn't mean anything good or bad for me during the interview, though.

Something else you don't know is how good of a recommendation your interviewer can write in general. Even if you blew them away, your interviewer's review may come off as tepid without meaning to. Every interviewer is likely to have a top candidate that they interviewed.

Another thing to consider (though you didn't explicitly ask about this) is that different lines of questioning during interviews may not mean what you think. If you have some kind of problem with your package (like an old credit issue or something that isn't an auto-ding), your interviewer might ask you a lot of questions about that instead of how amazing the rest of your package is. This might be to determine if they want to give a positive recommendation, or it might be so that they know exactly how to spin any negatives on your application if they really want to give you a great recommendation.

tl;dr - Reading the tea leaves is nigh impossible.


Thanks for your input, it is certainly appreciated. I figured that there wasn't too much to read into the comments/lack thereof from the interviewers. At this point, I'm taking an expect the worst/hope for the best approach to the whole process. I certainly want to be a JAG, so I'm hoping that even if I don't get in this time, that I can get in on another board.

balzie94
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Re: Military Law

Postby balzie94 » Thu Nov 15, 2012 11:40 am

Edit
Last edited by balzie94 on Thu Nov 15, 2012 4:46 pm, edited 1 time in total.

legalsport
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Re: Military Law

Postby legalsport » Thu Nov 15, 2012 12:06 pm

i say that as well, but wasn't aware that it was a new procedure. so, i had those who recommended me fill it out and send it directly to that navyaccensions email. no idea if that would disqualify you or not though

balzie94
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Re: Military Law

Postby balzie94 » Thu Nov 15, 2012 1:02 pm

Edit
Last edited by balzie94 on Thu Nov 15, 2012 4:46 pm, edited 1 time in total.

legalsport
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Re: Military Law

Postby legalsport » Thu Nov 15, 2012 1:30 pm

the only good thing is that we should know soon either way whether it worked against you. the timeline says 8 weeks from october 12 deadline, which puts us in earlyish dec for decision time

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LazinessPerSe
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Re: Military Law

Postby LazinessPerSe » Thu Nov 15, 2012 4:17 pm

IIRC from a call with Navy Accessions, the new form did need to be filled out. The reference can attach a letter to the form as well. The form could be mailed or e-mailed; either way was acceptable. I obviously can't say for sure whether this will disqualify or not - just be sure to read the fine print and check over your application a few times before the next board if you don't make this one.

GL.




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