Military Law

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BruceWayne
Posts: 2032
Joined: Sat Aug 14, 2010 9:36 pm

Re: Military Law

Postby BruceWayne » Mon Oct 29, 2012 12:44 pm

How much will not submitting 5 reccs hurt me for my DAP app to the AF? I will be submitting reccs, but probably only 2.

Kobe_Teeth
Posts: 964
Joined: Fri Dec 18, 2009 1:40 am

Re: Military Law

Postby Kobe_Teeth » Mon Oct 29, 2012 4:06 pm

How does the Navy inform people of accept/reject (since I can clearly begin expecting a "thanks but not thanks letter" from AF)?

wedge96
Posts: 11
Joined: Sun Mar 18, 2012 6:08 pm

Re: Military Law

Postby wedge96 » Mon Oct 29, 2012 4:55 pm

Kobe_Teeth wrote:How does the Navy inform people of accept/reject (since I can clearly begin expecting a "thanks but not thanks letter" from AF)?


The status of your application online will read "Not professionally recommended."
You will also receive a letter but it will arrive much later.

wedge96
Posts: 11
Joined: Sun Mar 18, 2012 6:08 pm

Re: Military Law

Postby wedge96 » Mon Oct 29, 2012 5:03 pm

BruceWayne wrote:How much will not submitting 5 reccs hurt me for my DAP app to the AF? I will be submitting reccs, but probably only 2.


If they are two real quality apps then it may not make a difference. Seriously consider asking a SJA for advice.

FWIW, I submitted five. Two were great, two were good, and one was kind of generic. One of the great ones was by a civilian attorney in the base legal office where I volunteered and the other was by a professor. Both are prior-service members and I thought they were able to focus on characteristics that a selection board would want to know about (leadership potential, work ethic, attitude, willingness to serve, etc.).

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Patrick Bateman
Posts: 595
Joined: Tue Feb 19, 2008 5:41 pm

Re: Military Law

Postby Patrick Bateman » Mon Oct 29, 2012 6:56 pm

wedge96 wrote:
BruceWayne wrote:How much will not submitting 5 reccs hurt me for my DAP app to the AF? I will be submitting reccs, but probably only 2.


If they are two real quality apps then it may not make a difference. Seriously consider asking a SJA for advice.

FWIW, I submitted five. Two were great, two were good, and one was kind of generic. One of the great ones was by a civilian attorney in the base legal office where I volunteered and the other was by a professor. Both are prior-service members and I thought they were able to focus on characteristics that a selection board would want to know about (leadership potential, work ethic, attitude, willingness to serve, etc.).


Culturally, the Air Force is a lot of about checking boxes, not always about substance. For the regular Line Os, it is highly recommended they have their masters degree done before their Major's board. The promotion board does not care what fake online program they get it from, as long as they have it. Check the box.

The advice I got back in 07 regarding the LORs was to check the box for all five. The theory is that the board will add some weight/consideration to the fact that you were willing/able to max out the amount of letters. I cannot verify the veracity of this theory, but in a weird way, it makes sense to me. Obviously, there is a point of diminishing return if you have five polished turds that lack any substance, but if you have the opportunity to max em out, I recommend it.

I also had five. Two strong ones from the base legal office at which I interned, two solid from professors (a former AUSA and an adjunct who was also an O-6 Nat Guard SJA), and from my 1L law firm.

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autumnaesthetic
Posts: 26
Joined: Mon Jul 21, 2008 12:12 pm

Re: Military Law

Postby autumnaesthetic » Wed Oct 31, 2012 1:47 pm

Patrick Bateman wrote:
wedge96 wrote:
BruceWayne wrote:How much will not submitting 5 reccs hurt me for my DAP app to the AF? I will be submitting reccs, but probably only 2.


If they are two real quality apps then it may not make a difference. Seriously consider asking a SJA for advice.

FWIW, I submitted five. Two were great, two were good, and one was kind of generic. One of the great ones was by a civilian attorney in the base legal office where I volunteered and the other was by a professor. Both are prior-service members and I thought they were able to focus on characteristics that a selection board would want to know about (leadership potential, work ethic, attitude, willingness to serve, etc.).


Culturally, the Air Force is a lot of about checking boxes, not always about substance. For the regular Line Os, it is highly recommended they have their masters degree done before their Major's board. The promotion board does not care what fake online program they get it from, as long as they have it. Check the box.

The advice I got back in 07 regarding the LORs was to check the box for all five. The theory is that the board will add some weight/consideration to the fact that you were willing/able to max out the amount of letters. I cannot verify the veracity of this theory, but in a weird way, it makes sense to me. Obviously, there is a point of diminishing return if you have five polished turds that lack any substance, but if you have the opportunity to max em out, I recommend it.

I also had five. Two strong ones from the base legal office at which I interned, two solid from professors (a former AUSA and an adjunct who was also an O-6 Nat Guard SJA), and from my 1L law firm.


Is there a limit (or general rule of thumb) on how old the letter can be? I have four current LORs specifically written for my AF DAP application. I have other letters I can use; namely, a letter written last November following my 1L internship with a City Attorney's Office. The letter is very positive and I've used it successfully before.

The problem is, I haven't been in contact with the recommender (on a substantive level) for about 18 months. I don't want to impose and ask him to update the salutation/date/etc. Would it be a bad idea to submit this along with the others written specifically for the AF to satisfy the "check the box" rationale?

BetterCallSaul!
Posts: 25
Joined: Tue Sep 11, 2012 10:36 am

Re: Military Law

Postby BetterCallSaul! » Wed Oct 31, 2012 1:59 pm

autumnaesthetic wrote:
Patrick Bateman wrote:
wedge96 wrote:
BruceWayne wrote:How much will not submitting 5 reccs hurt me for my DAP app to the AF? I will be submitting reccs, but probably only 2.


If they are two real quality apps then it may not make a difference. Seriously consider asking a SJA for advice.

FWIW, I submitted five. Two were great, two were good, and one was kind of generic. One of the great ones was by a civilian attorney in the base legal office where I volunteered and the other was by a professor. Both are prior-service members and I thought they were able to focus on characteristics that a selection board would want to know about (leadership potential, work ethic, attitude, willingness to serve, etc.).


Culturally, the Air Force is a lot of about checking boxes, not always about substance. For the regular Line Os, it is highly recommended they have their masters degree done before their Major's board. The promotion board does not care what fake online program they get it from, as long as they have it. Check the box.

The advice I got back in 07 regarding the LORs was to check the box for all five. The theory is that the board will add some weight/consideration to the fact that you were willing/able to max out the amount of letters. I cannot verify the veracity of this theory, but in a weird way, it makes sense to me. Obviously, there is a point of diminishing return if you have five polished turds that lack any substance, but if you have the opportunity to max em out, I recommend it.

I also had five. Two strong ones from the base legal office at which I interned, two solid from professors (a former AUSA and an adjunct who was also an O-6 Nat Guard SJA), and from my 1L law firm.


Is there a limit (or general rule of thumb) on how old the letter can be? I have four current LORs specifically written for my AF DAP application. I have other letters I can use; namely, a letter written last November following my 1L internship with a City Attorney's Office. The letter is very positive and I've used it successfully before.

The problem is, I haven't been in contact with the recommender (on a substantive level) for about 18 months. I don't want to impose and ask him to update the salutation/date/etc. Would it be a bad idea to submit this along with the others written specifically for the AF to satisfy the "check the box" rationale?


Unsure. I believe the BOT guide says their LOR date is only good for 60 days or so, but that's BOT.
Last edited by BetterCallSaul! on Thu Nov 01, 2012 9:46 am, edited 1 time in total.

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autumnaesthetic
Posts: 26
Joined: Mon Jul 21, 2008 12:12 pm

Re: Military Law

Postby autumnaesthetic » Wed Oct 31, 2012 2:09 pm

No, my avatar is misleading. I'm in Southern CA with an interview scheduled at March ARB.

megamanx
Posts: 32
Joined: Wed Mar 09, 2011 5:51 pm

Re: Military Law

Postby megamanx » Wed Oct 31, 2012 2:10 pm

Hey ya'll, I also got the news from AF today so I definitely wouldn't lose hope just because other people have heard back already. I interviewed at a base affected by Hurricane Sandy so the SJA just wasn't around to make the call until today.

Also for those discussing the AF internship program, your safest bet is to call the recruiter directly to find out when the job will be posted. Last year, the internship wasn't available to apply to until February but you just never know. If the job is up on USAJOBS make sure you confirm with the recruiter that they received your application because there have been several issues with lost paperwork since I started law school (3L now).

Kobe_Teeth
Posts: 964
Joined: Fri Dec 18, 2009 1:40 am

Re: Military Law

Postby Kobe_Teeth » Wed Oct 31, 2012 2:44 pm

megamanx wrote:Hey ya'll, I also got the news from AF today so I definitely wouldn't lose hope just because other people have heard back already. I interviewed at a base affected by Hurricane Sandy so the SJA just wasn't around to make the call until today.

Also for those discussing the AF internship program, your safest bet is to call the recruiter directly to find out when the job will be posted. Last year, the internship wasn't available to apply to until February but you just never know. If the job is up on USAJOBS make sure you confirm with the recruiter that they received your application because there have been several issues with lost paperwork since I started law school (3L now).



So you're in? Congratulations!

mattpen
Posts: 16
Joined: Tue Feb 16, 2010 2:26 am

Re: Military Law

Postby mattpen » Wed Oct 31, 2012 5:08 pm

autumnaesthetic wrote:No, my avatar is misleading. I'm in Southern CA with an interview scheduled at March ARB.


Let me know what you think of the interview, I interviewed there a month or so ago. Good luck!

mattpen
Posts: 16
Joined: Tue Feb 16, 2010 2:26 am

Re: Military Law

Postby mattpen » Wed Oct 31, 2012 5:09 pm

megamanx wrote:Hey ya'll, I also got the news from AF today so I definitely wouldn't lose hope just because other people have heard back already. I interviewed at a base affected by Hurricane Sandy so the SJA just wasn't around to make the call until today.

Also for those discussing the AF internship program, your safest bet is to call the recruiter directly to find out when the job will be posted. Last year, the internship wasn't available to apply to until February but you just never know. If the job is up on USAJOBS make sure you confirm with the recruiter that they received your application because there have been several issues with lost paperwork since I started law school (3L now).


Congrats! My mom told me today that a letter came in the mail today from the AF so I expect bad news. There's always the next cycle, constantly improving the application.

Kobe_Teeth
Posts: 964
Joined: Fri Dec 18, 2009 1:40 am

Re: Military Law

Postby Kobe_Teeth » Wed Oct 31, 2012 5:13 pm

Man, I hate letters. Swear to god I still get them from my 2L mass mail lollolol

megamanx
Posts: 32
Joined: Wed Mar 09, 2011 5:51 pm

Re: Military Law

Postby megamanx » Wed Oct 31, 2012 5:17 pm

mattpen wrote:
megamanx wrote:Hey ya'll, I also got the news from AF today so I definitely wouldn't lose hope just because other people have heard back already. I interviewed at a base affected by Hurricane Sandy so the SJA just wasn't around to make the call until today.

Also for those discussing the AF internship program, your safest bet is to call the recruiter directly to find out when the job will be posted. Last year, the internship wasn't available to apply to until February but you just never know. If the job is up on USAJOBS make sure you confirm with the recruiter that they received your application because there have been several issues with lost paperwork since I started law school (3L now).


Congrats! My mom told me today that a letter came in the mail today from the AF so I expect bad news. There's always the next cycle, constantly improving the application.


Thanks guys. If my recollection of the list released last year serves, they took more people in the second round so hopefully they do the same this year.

balzie94
Posts: 182
Joined: Wed Sep 12, 2012 1:41 pm

Re: Military Law

Postby balzie94 » Wed Oct 31, 2012 5:34 pm

Just checking in to place my AF DAP ding on the record. 0/1. Got the "You suck" letter yesterday.

BetterCallSaul!
Posts: 25
Joined: Tue Sep 11, 2012 10:36 am

Re: Military Law

Postby BetterCallSaul! » Wed Oct 31, 2012 5:50 pm

balzie94 wrote:Just checking in to place my AF DAP ding on the record. 0/1. Got the "You suck" letter yesterday.


Got mine too. 0/4. Fifth time's a charm!

Congrats, megamanx!

wedge96
Posts: 11
Joined: Sun Mar 18, 2012 6:08 pm

Re: Military Law

Postby wedge96 » Wed Oct 31, 2012 11:20 pm

autumnaesthetic wrote:
Patrick Bateman wrote:
wedge96 wrote:
BruceWayne wrote:How much will not submitting 5 reccs hurt me for my DAP app to the AF? I will be submitting reccs, but probably only 2.


If they are two real quality apps then it may not make a difference. Seriously consider asking a SJA for advice.

FWIW, I submitted five. Two were great, two were good, and one was kind of generic. One of the great ones was by a civilian attorney in the base legal office where I volunteered and the other was by a professor. Both are prior-service members and I thought they were able to focus on characteristics that a selection board would want to know about (leadership potential, work ethic, attitude, willingness to serve, etc.).


Culturally, the Air Force is a lot of about checking boxes, not always about substance. For the regular Line Os, it is highly recommended they have their masters degree done before their Major's board. The promotion board does not care what fake online program they get it from, as long as they have it. Check the box.

The advice I got back in 07 regarding the LORs was to check the box for all five. The theory is that the board will add some weight/consideration to the fact that you were willing/able to max out the amount of letters. I cannot verify the veracity of this theory, but in a weird way, it makes sense to me. Obviously, there is a point of diminishing return if you have five polished turds that lack any substance, but if you have the opportunity to max em out, I recommend it.

I also had five. Two strong ones from the base legal office at which I interned, two solid from professors (a former AUSA and an adjunct who was also an O-6 Nat Guard SJA), and from my 1L law firm.


Is there a limit (or general rule of thumb) on how old the letter can be? I have four current LORs specifically written for my AF DAP application. I have other letters I can use; namely, a letter written last November following my 1L internship with a City Attorney's Office. The letter is very positive and I've used it successfully before.

The problem is, I haven't been in contact with the recommender (on a substantive level) for about 18 months. I don't want to impose and ask him to update the salutation/date/etc. Would it be a bad idea to submit this along with the others written specifically for the AF to satisfy the "check the box" rationale?


I submitted a letter that was written by my boss at the end of my 1L summer internship. I don't think it should be a problem.

ShockTop
Posts: 86
Joined: Sun Jan 30, 2011 10:23 pm

Re: Military Law

Postby ShockTop » Thu Nov 01, 2012 12:42 pm

wedge96 wrote:
Kobe_Teeth wrote:How does the Navy inform people of accept/reject (since I can clearly begin expecting a "thanks but not thanks letter" from AF)?


The status of your application online will read "Not professionally recommended."
You will also receive a letter but it will arrive much later.


Sorry for the late reply to this but I never actually received a letter from the Navy when I was rejected during the last boards and found out just through the application website when my status was updated. If my memory is correct, I recall the status being updated several days before the website predicted. In this case, I would suggest checking around the beginning of December.

xerxes
Posts: 20
Joined: Thu May 03, 2012 8:42 pm

Re: Military Law

Postby xerxes » Thu Nov 01, 2012 6:39 pm

So just figured I'd pipe up and offer some help, given that this site has been so helpful for me for years (going back to college and determining where to go to law school). This thread of course has been useful, so in case my experiences can be of use, feel free to send a pm/throw stuff out there.

I graduated law school in 2011, and unfortunately was not picked up on any of the student programs. I applied to the Navy 5 times, AF 3 or 4, and Army twice; only time I wasn't flat out rejected was as an Army alternate (which, no offense to Army folks, but thankfully I wasn't picked up on).

I re-applied for both the AF and Navy last year, and was picked up for the Navy in the Spring, and recently have commissioned, heading to ODS in a few weeks. I did a Navy internship during my 1L summer, and they were far and away my first choice, so it ended up working-out.

To throw some random thoughts out there:

-Obviously, if at first you don't succeed, try try again. But I would also say to analyze why you aren't perhaps getting in, and if there's anything you can do to control it. Personally, I re-worked my motivational statement several times, as well as sought out opportunities (a dual-degree in criminal law, and a post-law school job as a federal prosecutor with 12+ trials) that were applicable.
-Medically/background wise, be honest. I had some stuff that wasn't entirely helpful, and may have hurt/delayed my process, but in the end it's better off being revealed now than later.


Anyways, thanks for the help to the random JAG folks on here, and good luck to those who are trying to get there.

leedleed
Posts: 29
Joined: Mon Dec 05, 2011 12:36 pm

Re: Military Law

Postby leedleed » Fri Nov 02, 2012 12:18 am

BruceWayne wrote:How much will not submitting 5 reccs hurt me for my DAP app to the AF? I will be submitting reccs, but probably only 2.


I have submitted only 1 and was selected. So I don't think the number really matters so much?

xerxes
Posts: 20
Joined: Thu May 03, 2012 8:42 pm

Re: Military Law

Postby xerxes » Fri Nov 02, 2012 4:54 pm

Also - has anyone gone to Navy ODS lately?

govt.law
Posts: 2
Joined: Mon Nov 05, 2012 11:32 am

Re: Military Law

Postby govt.law » Mon Nov 05, 2012 11:42 am

. . .
Last edited by govt.law on Wed Nov 07, 2012 1:41 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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howell
Posts: 503
Joined: Mon Jan 10, 2011 10:57 am

Re: Military Law

Postby howell » Mon Nov 05, 2012 12:05 pm

govt.law wrote:I have a question on the medical clearance which I know has been discussed elsewhere on this forum. Is depression that was treated nearly 9 or 10 years ago a deal breaker? I realize there isn't a definitive answer on this and that, to some extent, it will depend on who reviews the application and medical records. That said I'm curious if other people have had experience with any similar medical clearance issues. No offense, but I'm not interested in other applicants' general opinions that are based on forum discussions and other secondary information. I'm more interested in hearing from anyone who is a current or former JAG or other applicants who have gone through the medical waiver process, specifically w/r/t depression or related medical issues. The application is otherwise clean with no criminal violations or other medical problems. Also, is there any variation between branches in terms of how lenient or strict they are with medical waivers? Thanks for the help and input.

From my experience of getting a couple of therapy visits cleared, these seem to be the relevant issues:

- Were you actually diagnosed with anything (such as a form of depression)?
- How long did the treatment run/how many visits was it?
- Were you prescribed medication? (seems to be a biggie)

I have not known anyone who has tried to get depression (actual diagnosis, possibly medication involved, significant treatment, etc.) cleared, so I can't speak to where the line will be.

govt.law
Posts: 2
Joined: Mon Nov 05, 2012 11:32 am

Re: Military Law

Postby govt.law » Mon Nov 05, 2012 12:28 pm

howell wrote:
govt.law wrote:I have a question on the medical clearance which I know has been discussed elsewhere on this forum. Is depression that was treated nearly 9 or 10 years ago a deal breaker? I realize there isn't a definitive answer on this and that, to some extent, it will depend on who reviews the application and medical records. That said I'm curious if other people have had experience with any similar medical clearance issues. No offense, but I'm not interested in other applicants' general opinions that are based on forum discussions and other secondary information. I'm more interested in hearing from anyone who is a current or former JAG or other applicants who have gone through the medical waiver process, specifically w/r/t depression or related medical issues. The application is otherwise clean with no criminal violations or other medical problems. Also, is there any variation between branches in terms of how lenient or strict they are with medical waivers? Thanks for the help and input.

From my experience of getting a couple of therapy visits cleared, these seem to be the relevant issues:

- Were you actually diagnosed with anything (such as a form of depression)?
- How long did the treatment run/how many visits was it?
- Were you prescribed medication? (seems to be a biggie)

I have not known anyone who has tried to get depression (actual diagnosis, possibly medication involved, significant treatment, etc.) cleared, so I can't speak to where the line will be.


Do you mind if I ask what the timing with your therapy visits was? How much time passed between your application and your therapy visits? Thanks for the help.

AnnaP331
Posts: 5
Joined: Thu Sep 27, 2012 4:52 pm

Re: Military Law

Postby AnnaP331 » Mon Nov 05, 2012 12:38 pm

AnnaP331 wrote:My husband was selected for the Navy SP in May and now he is having a problem with MEPS. In college he fractured his skull and more recently he had vision correction surgey. MEPS asked him for his medical records and he sent them everything the hospital had and filled out the forms they requested. Even after recieving the records, they are still refusing to give him a MEPS appointment due to insufficient records. Now his recruiter is telling him that we have to front the money for a private physical.

What is crazy about this whole thing is that he was previously in the Army and they were aware of his fractured skull and approved his vision surgery. How is it that he is qualified to deploy with the Army for 15 months, attend ranger school, airborne school, etc and not potentially be medically qualified to be a lawyer in the Navy?

Is it common for people to have to get private physicals? Is this a bad sign?


Any thoughts on the issue above? We really appreciate you input!




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