Military Law

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balzie94
Posts: 182
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Re: Military Law

Postby balzie94 » Wed Oct 24, 2012 2:17 pm

Is it safe to assume that if our SJA does not call us today, then we didn't get picked for DAP?

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Patrick Bateman
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Re: Military Law

Postby Patrick Bateman » Wed Oct 24, 2012 2:21 pm

balzie94 wrote:Is it safe to assume that if our SJA does not call us today, then we didn't get picked for DAP?


Generally a good idea to wait until the end of the week to start expecting the worst. SJAs may be on the road, be TDY, or on Leave and where they do not have ready internet access.

balzie94
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Re: Military Law

Postby balzie94 » Wed Oct 24, 2012 2:26 pm

Got it, thanks.

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bouakedojo
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Re: Military Law

Postby bouakedojo » Wed Oct 24, 2012 2:28 pm

wedge96 wrote:
leedleed wrote:FYI: People are getting calls for AF Oct board acceptances.


I can confirm this. Just got the call from the SJA that interviewed me this morning. Good luck to everyone else!


Congrats, Wedge!

AnnaP331
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Re: Military Law

Postby AnnaP331 » Wed Oct 24, 2012 2:58 pm

My husband was selected for the Navy SP in May and now he is having a problem with MEPS. In college he fractured his skull and more recently he had vision correction surgey. MEPS asked him for his medical records and he sent them everything the hospital had and filled out the forms they requested. Even after recieving the records, they are still refusing to give him a MEPS appointment due to insufficient records. Now his recruiter is telling him that we have to front the money for a private physical.

What is crazy about this whole thing is that he was previously in the Army and they were aware of his fractured skull and approved his vision surgery. How is it that he is qualified to deploy with the Army for 15 months, attend ranger school, airborne school, etc and not potentially be medically qualified to be a lawyer in the Navy?

Is it common for people to have to get private physicals? Is this a bad sign?

Neverow
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Re: Military Law

Postby Neverow » Wed Oct 24, 2012 5:03 pm

Hi All,

I've been reading this thread for a few months now. It has been incredibly informative, and I thank you all for your contributions. I am currently a 3L and have applied to the Oct. AF board and the Nov. Army board. Haven't heard anything yet from the AF today. I wish everyone the best of luck!

Best,

Neverow

leedleed
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Re: Military Law

Postby leedleed » Wed Oct 24, 2012 5:32 pm

Doc Review Lifer wrote:Congrats Leed and Wedge!

Was there any other substantive information?! As far as MEPS dates, OTS dates, etc. are concerned?


No specifics. I was just told that people will be getting more info in the mail.

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bouakedojo
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Re: Military Law

Postby bouakedojo » Wed Oct 24, 2012 5:36 pm

leedleed wrote:
Doc Review Lifer wrote:Congrats Leed and Wedge!

Was there any other substantive information?! As far as MEPS dates, OTS dates, etc. are concerned?


No specifics. I was just told that people will be getting more info in the mail.


I'm confused. Are you in the Navy already, leed? Or are you wanting to take an AF commission over a Navy one?

leedleed
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Re: Military Law

Postby leedleed » Wed Oct 24, 2012 8:11 pm

bouakedojo wrote:
leedleed wrote:
Doc Review Lifer wrote:Congrats Leed and Wedge!

Was there any other substantive information?! As far as MEPS dates, OTS dates, etc. are concerned?


No specifics. I was just told that people will be getting more info in the mail.


I'm confused. Are you in the Navy already, leed? Or are you wanting to take an AF commission over a Navy one?


I'm still in law school. I've applied to all branches, got selected for Navy first and then AF. Will be going Navy though.

Wolverhoo
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Re: Military Law

Postby Wolverhoo » Wed Oct 24, 2012 8:11 pm

Patrick Bateman wrote:
balzie94 wrote:Is it safe to assume that if our SJA does not call us today, then we didn't get picked for DAP?


Generally a good idea to wait until the end of the week to start expecting the worst. SJAs may be on the road, be TDY, or on Leave and where they do not have ready internet access.[/quote


I also did not get a call today- is there any way to access the list to see if my name is on it?

I remember thinking Army posts their selection list publicly but AF does not... is that right? I realize I will know yea/nay likely within 72 hrs or so but the suspense is just too much now that I know the list has dropped...

leedleed
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Re: Military Law

Postby leedleed » Wed Oct 24, 2012 8:19 pm

Wolverhoo wrote:
Patrick Bateman wrote:
balzie94 wrote:Is it safe to assume that if our SJA does not call us today, then we didn't get picked for DAP?


Generally a good idea to wait until the end of the week to start expecting the worst. SJAs may be on the road, be TDY, or on Leave and where they do not have ready internet access.[/quote


I also did not get a call today- is there any way to access the list to see if my name is on it?

I remember thinking Army posts their selection list publicly but AF does not... is that right? I realize I will know yea/nay likely within 72 hrs or so but the suspense is just too much now that I know the list has dropped...


To my knowledge, there is no list for AF when there is one for the Army. I'd just wait and see -- sometimes they do take a couple of days depending on the Staff JA of your base.

Either way, don't give up. Keep on trying if you're serious. I've applied more than once to every branch as well.

Wolverhoo
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Re: Military Law

Postby Wolverhoo » Wed Oct 24, 2012 8:26 pm

leedleed wrote:
Wolverhoo wrote:
Patrick Bateman wrote:
balzie94 wrote:Is it safe to assume that if our SJA does not call us today, then we didn't get picked for DAP?


Generally a good idea to wait until the end of the week to start expecting the worst. SJAs may be on the road, be TDY, or on Leave and where they do not have ready internet access.[/quote


I also did not get a call today- is there any way to access the list to see if my name is on it?

I remember thinking Army posts their selection list publicly but AF does not... is that right? I realize I will know yea/nay likely within 72 hrs or so but the suspense is just too much now that I know the list has dropped...


To my knowledge, there is no list for AF when there is one for the Army. I'd just wait and see -- sometimes they do take a couple of days depending on the Staff JA of your base.

Either way, don't give up. Keep on trying if you're serious. I've applied more than once to every branch as well.



Thanks for the encouragement, leed.... it is my first time applying but I am very serious about it (strong AF legacy, always wanted to go into the AF in some capacity).

You didn't happen to interview at Wright-Pat, did you?

leedleed
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Re: Military Law

Postby leedleed » Wed Oct 24, 2012 9:02 pm


Thanks for the encouragement, leed.... it is my first time applying but I am very serious about it (strong AF legacy, always wanted to go into the AF in some capacity).

You didn't happen to interview at Wright-Pat, did you?


Nope, not Wright-Pat.

Wolverhoo
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Re: Military Law

Postby Wolverhoo » Wed Oct 24, 2012 9:07 pm

leedleed wrote:

Thanks for the encouragement, leed.... it is my first time applying but I am very serious about it (strong AF legacy, always wanted to go into the AF in some capacity).

You didn't happen to interview at Wright-Pat, did you?


Nope, not Wright-Pat.



Thanks! I will hold out hope for a little while longer, then.

Also, many congratulations to you!

GoinforJAG
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Re: Military Law

Postby GoinforJAG » Wed Oct 24, 2012 9:15 pm

Leed, do you have any suggestions for submitting subsequent applications? Did you change much about the motivational statement for each submission/start a new activity to put on there/get new recs?

Congrats on Navy and AF! I also eventually want to go Navy, but it's awesome that you get a choice.

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bouakedojo
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Re: Military Law

Postby bouakedojo » Wed Oct 24, 2012 9:43 pm

leedleed wrote:I'm still in law school. I've applied to all branches, got selected for Navy first and then AF. Will be going Navy though.


Holy cow, leed. Congrats. :D

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Rotor
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Re: Military Law

Postby Rotor » Wed Oct 24, 2012 10:29 pm

bouakedojo wrote:
leedleed wrote:I'm still in law school. I've applied to all branches, got selected for Navy first and then AF. Will be going Navy though.


Holy cow, leed. Congrats. :D


Yes--congrats! And excellent choice. 8)

wedge96
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Re: Military Law

Postby wedge96 » Wed Oct 24, 2012 11:48 pm

leedleed wrote:
To my knowledge, there is no list for AF when there is one for the Army. I'd just wait and see -- sometimes they do take a couple of days depending on the Staff JA of your base.

Either way, don't give up. Keep on trying if you're serious. I've applied more than once to every branch as well.


That's correct. For whatever reason the Army is the only branch that makes their list public. The AF publishes it's list, but its only available to those in the JAG Corps--including interns--that have access to their website.

FWIW, I was not picked up for the Navy twice as a 2L and not picked up for the paid AF/Army 2L internships. Thankfully I was picked up on the first try for the AF DAP.
Keep the faith!

wedge96
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Re: Military Law

Postby wedge96 » Wed Oct 24, 2012 11:53 pm

Doc Review Lifer wrote:Congrats Leed and Wedge!

Was there any other substantive information?! As far as MEPS dates, OTS dates, etc. are concerned?


I was told that I would need to get a physical and was asked whether I thought that would be a problem. The SJA said that one of the recent boards had a ton of people DQ'ed for medical reasons. Other than that I was told I would receive further instruction through snail mail.

leedleed
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Re: Military Law

Postby leedleed » Thu Oct 25, 2012 12:52 am

GoinforJAG wrote:Leed, do you have any suggestions for submitting subsequent applications? Did you change much about the motivational statement for each submission/start a new activity to put on there/get new recs?

Congrats on Navy and AF! I also eventually want to go Navy, but it's awesome that you get a choice.


Thank you all for the well wishes. I am really grateful and excited.

In terms of applications...

To be exact, I applied to the Navy board two times, AF board twice (One Year College Program last year), Navy internship two times (for 1L and 2L summers), and the Army internship twice (for 1L and 2L summers). So I think it was pretty clear that I wanted JAG...

In terms of my application for the boards, I did rewrite my motivational statement. In my first statement, I made it a purely public-service oriented statement where I describe my desire to do work for the community, but for my second one, I essentially tied in more substantive material and details regarding my leadership activities, my knowledge/experience regarding JAG, trial experience, and my commitment to physical fitness. I know that's still pretty generic but I was specific enough with my details, and somehow was able to tie them all together into one theme--that JAG is perfect for me and vice versa.

In terms of other differences between the apps, after my first rejections... I got on my school's mock trial team, became SBA president, and raised my GPA. Also, I interned at two JAG offices (once in the summer, and once locally during a semester), and a DA's in between the two board selections .

Hope that helps! Feel free to PM for specific questions.

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Esquire
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Re: Military Law

Postby Esquire » Thu Oct 25, 2012 2:26 pm

ZeroDay wrote:
Esquire wrote:Where did you get all this misinformation?
Mostly from blogs at armystrongstories.com and also a little bit from people who went through JAOBC in years past. I guess I'll just revert back to assuming I know absolutely nothing until it actually happens.

Nah, things just change quick. My advice could very well be outdated by the time you get there. The BAH question, though, will not.

dreakol
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Re: Military Law

Postby dreakol » Fri Oct 26, 2012 12:23 pm

Anyone else having trouble finding the listing on USAJobs for the 2L AF internship?

had an "interview" with someone and they told me to go there and apply. can't find it though :/.

leedleed
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Re: Military Law

Postby leedleed » Sun Oct 28, 2012 10:14 am

dreakol wrote:Anyone else having trouble finding the listing on USAJobs for the 2L AF internship?

had an "interview" with someone and they told me to go there and apply. can't find it though :/.


I don't think they posted up yet. Just keep on checking, they will eventually post something up for the internships.

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Patrick Bateman
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Re: Military Law

Postby Patrick Bateman » Sun Oct 28, 2012 10:31 am

leedleed wrote:
dreakol wrote:Anyone else having trouble finding the listing on USAJobs for the 2L AF internship?

had an "interview" with someone and they told me to go there and apply. can't find it though :/.


I don't think they posted up yet. Just keep on checking, they will eventually post something up for the internships.


Make sure you are following the AF JAG Recruiting Page on Facebook. The JAX accessions OIC usually provides updates on the internship application process.

reydingo
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Joined: Sat Aug 15, 2009 12:03 pm

Re: Military Law

Postby reydingo » Mon Oct 29, 2012 5:58 am

Patrick Bateman wrote:
reydingo wrote:First off, this is a great thread for people of all walks interested in joining the JAG Corps, regardless of branch of interest. Maybe my question has already been answer, but believe it is unique enough to warrant a new post among the others.

BLUF: I am an Army Captain that will be leaving in March of next year to attend law school to become an Air Force JAG. My pros:

1. Six years of active duty service, and will continue as a Space and Missile Officer in the ANG.
2. Time as a A/S3, Platoon Leader, XO, BN Chemical Officer (For those in the Army again A/S3), and BN Intelligence Officer
3. TC/SCI
4. 1 completed deployment, and currently on the 2nd.

Now the cons:
1. Six years of service (will explain in a moment)
2. 36 years old by start of law school.
3. Entered the service with a medical waiver for excessive refractive error (was approved by the Air Force in 2007 when applying for AF OTS, during their drawdown, when I tried for the 5th time to go line AF Officer.)

My concern at this point would be if I would be considered for AF JAG. I originally chose the AF based on the mission of protecting America from air and space. I tried for a while to get a rated slot, then non rated, and was rejected every time, hence why I am in the Army. What my concerns are are the cons listed. At one end, I know the AF allows applicants with up to ten years, but I have heard that they may look negatively on prior service for that long.
(For candidates that are considering Army JAG, I would say go for it. I have absolutely nothing against the Army, as it has done a lot for me. In my case, it is becoming a “legal Airman” and the mission of supporting AF Operations and Airmen from a legal standpoint that motivates my actions. If you feel the same way, except for Soldiers, then by all means submit.)

My question to the experienced JAG Officers is whether I would get looked at based on my cons. The reason being is I have heard second hand information that while it possible to apply with commissioned time, the chances of being accepted are slimmer than if I was applying as a non prior. I would like to confirm/deny this, before expending the effort in applying for AF JAG. Army JAG is an option, as I am going to law school regardless, but now I have a family to consider before attempting this task.


The issue I've seen with JAGs that come in with extensive time as an officer in a different career field (usually FLEP or ELP) is that they show up with so much time in grade, there is really no time to season/develop them as junior attorneys. With 6+years in, you'll probably be selected for Major, if not wearing oak leaves by the time you start at a base legal office. They leaves you very little time to practice as a junior JAG before you get pushed up in having to manage by virtue of your rank. No matter what, you'll have to be chief of military justice or civil law at a large legal office (Nellis, DM, Ramstein, etc) without the benefit of having been a section OIC and understanding how the different sections run. After that first assignment, you'd very likely be done being a drone at base legal and have to move up to either a Numbered Air Force or be the Deputy SJA at a different base legal office.

Bottom line - you'll just have to operate with a much steeper learning curve than your peers who got to spend all of their time in uniform in JAG. I don't think most of those jobs are terribly difficult, especially for someone with your background who is inevitably used to working outside his comfort zone, but it is still a challenge to be in a leadership position just out of the gate.

Practically, you may lose out on some of the cooler opportunities in the AF JAG Corps due to your rank - positions like Area Defense Counsel, working at a Field Support Center, and the other slots for the senior Captains will probably not work out for you as they will have to develop you very quickly for more senior leadership roles. Your chance to do courts will be limited to probably that first assignment at a legal office as well.

So, if I am sitting on a selection board looking at your file, this is what is going through my mind. The "Con" is everything listed above. You have valuable experience as an officer and leader, but not as a JAG, and you'll have the challenge of having to lead folks with far more practical lawyer experience than you. The "Pro" is that you have already been seasoned as an officer and you are going to bring all of that valuable background to the JAG Corps. You'll have a different perspective and skill set that folks like me, coming through a weak commissioning program and not knowing much of the operational Air Force beyond deployments, could never provide. When you talk to Commanders, you will have that additional credibility of wearing the ribbons and decs of someone that has been around the block.

You sound like you truly want to be wearing Blue and that is not something I can say for the vast majority of applicants out there. I highly encourage you to go for it. Your background is so unique that it is almost impossible to ballpark you odds of success. I personally know a handful of Field Graders that have similar backgrounds, overcame the same challenges, and have done a hell of a job.

Best of luck to you and keep your head down on this current deployment.



Patrick Bateman-

Thank you and JCFindley (I talked with him in th ITT Military Veteran thread). In our other thread, I mentioned a desire to practice aviation law. However, being an Air Force JAG Officer is my number one choice. With 6 years in, I may as well go for retrirement, though I see a lot of profeesional growth and valuee in the military in general.

It is funny you mentioned Ramstein, considering I would like to "specialize" in strategic airlift in international settings. With this, I considered all overseas airlift bases as potential assignments, after the first two, which would be enough to establish credibility and hopefully, become the AF equal to "Branch Qualified", which is my current assignment in the Army. I find it funny because I am stationed in Bavaria, and while I enjoy it, my favorite place has been Kaiserslautern. If no otheer reason, I would stay in for that assignment, and is one of the few place I would live outside the US. I don't think I will voluntarily com back to Afghanistan.




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