Military Law

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ZeroDay

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Re: Military Law

Postby ZeroDay » Tue Sep 25, 2012 11:30 pm

us.army.jag.hopeful wrote:Whats the makeup of each Army JAOBC class? I know there are about 100 or so per class--but how many are Active v. Reserve for each class (Feb, July, Oct)?

Esquire previously posted these stats for the February 2012 class:
    115 students
    86 Males, 27 Females
    45 Active Duty
    36 Reserve
    32 National Guard

Is anybody else scheduled to attend the 191st JAOBC?

Jagjen82

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Re: Military Law

Postby Jagjen82 » Thu Sep 27, 2012 1:29 pm

I was selected for Army JAG, but I will be in the 190th JAOBC starting in February.

AnnaP331

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Re: Military Law

Postby AnnaP331 » Thu Sep 27, 2012 5:05 pm

I stumbled across this thread while looking for information about the Navy JAG. My husband was professionally recommended in May and we are trying to decide whether or not this is right for us and I'm hoping to get some information here that would help us make the decision.

Can someone tell me about the training for the Navy? I know there is ODS and the basic lawyer course. When will he attend each of these schools? While he is training, am I allowed to go with him or will he be required to stay on base the whole time? What type of pay is he getting while he is training (full pay with BAH/BAS)? After training how long are you given to move before you start working?

Also he was in the Army for ~4 years and in the National Guard for about 2 years. Does anyone know how that will effect his rank and his pay schedule in the Navy?

Is there a strong likelihood that he will be deployed? If so, how long would the deployments last? What will his schedule be while he is at home? Will he be required to travel a lot for work?

brownshoe

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Re: Military Law

Postby brownshoe » Thu Sep 27, 2012 7:08 pm

AnnaP331 wrote:I stumbled across this thread while looking for information about the Navy JAG. My husband was professionally recommended in May and we are trying to decide whether or not this is right for us and I'm hoping to get some information here that would help us make the decision.

Can someone tell me about the training for the Navy? I know there is ODS and the basic lawyer course. When will he attend each of these schools? While he is training, am I allowed to go with him or will he be required to stay on base the whole time? What type of pay is he getting while he is training (full pay with BAH/BAS)? After training how long are you given to move before you start working?

Also he was in the Army for ~4 years and in the National Guard for about 2 years. Does anyone know how that will effect his rank and his pay schedule in the Navy?

Is there a strong likelihood that he will be deployed? If so, how long would the deployments last? What will his schedule be while he is at home? Will he be required to travel a lot for work?

If he graduates in May, ODS will be around August, 5 weeks long, and you can't go with him. I think you get base pay but no BAH. Then he has to wait until he passes the bar - if he has results before the Oct class, he can start NJS in October. If not, he has to wait until Jan. He won't get paid between ODS and NJS. The first day of NJS is the first day of active duty. It is 10 weeks long, and you can go with him for that. You roll right from NJS to your first duty station. Theoretically, you could take leave en route, but typically, you just get a few days to travel there, and then you start work.

Pay - the 4 years will move him over a couple spots on the pay scale - not sure about the National guard time. Rank will be LTJG for the first nine months like everyone else unless he was an officer. In that case, he'll come in as a LT. Make sure the accessions detailer and recruiter is fully aware of his prior time so they can get his pay and rank straight before he begins.

AnnaP331

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Re: Military Law

Postby AnnaP331 » Thu Sep 27, 2012 10:14 pm

Thanks so much for that information. He was an officer in the Army and left as an 03 so its good to know that will effect his pay in the Navy.

When do you find out where you will be stationed? Also does anyone know about the deployments?

Thanks for all of your insights!

brownshoe

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Re: Military Law

Postby brownshoe » Thu Sep 27, 2012 10:34 pm

AnnaP331 wrote:Thanks so much for that information. He was an officer in the Army and left as an 03 so its good to know that will effect his pay in the Navy.

When do you find out where you will be stationed? Also does anyone know about the deployments?

Thanks for all of your insights!

Usually you find out your duty station between ODS and NJS. Almost zero chance he will be deployed during the first two years. After that, still not a great chance. Almost all of the Afg. billets have gone away. There are jobs on ships, but they are all voluntary. I have yet to meet someone forced to deploy in the Navy JAGC. However, if he chooses to go to sea, deployments range anywhere from a few months to a year, with most being around 6-7 months.

thomas7669

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Re: Military Law

Postby thomas7669 » Thu Sep 27, 2012 11:26 pm

I see references in this thread to a 65,000 loan repayment program offered by the Army for JAG officers.

Is that current? I did not see anything on the Army's JAG website about it. I also found another unofficial website that said current loan repayment programs are limited to enlistees.

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Ruxin1

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Re: Military Law

Postby Ruxin1 » Thu Sep 27, 2012 11:37 pm

thomas7669 wrote:I see references in this thread to a 65,000 loan repayment program offered by the Army for JAG officers.

Is that current? I did not see anything on the Army's JAG website about it. I also found another unofficial website that said current loan repayment programs are limited to enlistees.


LRAP is up to your school not the employer.

thomas7669

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Re: Military Law

Postby thomas7669 » Thu Sep 27, 2012 11:40 pm

I was referencing this quote on the previous page

I am not that familiar with LRAP programs, but my recollection is that it is for most. Certainly check with your school's program to be sure.

There are other alternatives, such as the $65k in SLRP funds for the Army and Air Force,


It sounds like the poster was talking about something other than school repayment programs. Maybe I misread it.

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Ex Cearulo

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Re: Military Law

Postby Ex Cearulo » Thu Sep 27, 2012 11:56 pm

Checking in. Nice to see people interested in serving after law school. I'm currently a pilot but attempting to get into law school through the ELP. But if anyone has any questions about the Air Force in general, I've been in for 6+ yrs including time stationed at Hurlburt Field (FL), Columbus AFB (MS), Davis Monthan AFB (AZ), Osan AB (Korea), and currently Moody AFB (GA), as well as a trip to scenic Afbhanistan. Happy to help in any way I can.

-HD

jeeves4567

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Re: Military Law

Postby jeeves4567 » Fri Sep 28, 2012 1:03 pm

HawgDriver wrote:Checking in. Nice to see people interested in serving after law school. I'm currently a pilot but attempting to get into law school through the ELP. But if anyone has any questions about the Air Force in general, I've been in for 6+ yrs including time stationed at Hurlburt Field (FL), Columbus AFB (MS), Davis Monthan AFB (AZ), Osan AB (Korea), and currently Moody AFB (GA), as well as a trip to scenic Afbhanistan. Happy to help in any way I can.

-HD


Why is Osan considered an undesirable base/is it really that bad? And how does the follow-on assignment procedure work? Thanks!

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howell

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Re: Military Law

Postby howell » Fri Sep 28, 2012 1:45 pm

jeeves4567 wrote:
HawgDriver wrote:Checking in. Nice to see people interested in serving after law school. I'm currently a pilot but attempting to get into law school through the ELP. But if anyone has any questions about the Air Force in general, I've been in for 6+ yrs including time stationed at Hurlburt Field (FL), Columbus AFB (MS), Davis Monthan AFB (AZ), Osan AB (Korea), and currently Moody AFB (GA), as well as a trip to scenic Afbhanistan. Happy to help in any way I can.

-HD


Why is Osan considered an undesirable base/is it really that bad?

I'd be interested on your thoughts on this too. And Davis Monthan - how was that?

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JCFindley

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Re: Military Law

Postby JCFindley » Fri Sep 28, 2012 4:39 pm

howell wrote:
jeeves4567 wrote:
HawgDriver wrote:Checking in. Nice to see people interested in serving after law school. I'm currently a pilot but attempting to get into law school through the ELP. But if anyone has any questions about the Air Force in general, I've been in for 6+ yrs including time stationed at Hurlburt Field (FL), Columbus AFB (MS), Davis Monthan AFB (AZ), Osan AB (Korea), and currently Moody AFB (GA), as well as a trip to scenic Afbhanistan. Happy to help in any way I can.

-HD


Why is Osan considered an undesirable base/is it really that bad?

I'd be interested on your thoughts on this too. And Davis Monthan - how was that?


I have never been to Osan so can't comment on it.

Personally, I LOVED DM every time I was there. Keep in mind it IS desert and it IS hot but there is a lot to do in the AZ desert from my perspective and I like the desert SW in general. There are a few bases that fit the desert SW bill BTW, DM, Luke, Kirtland come to mind. Those three are all in reasonably large metro areas with lots for spouses and kids to do too.

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Esquire

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Re: Military Law

Postby Esquire » Sat Sep 29, 2012 12:07 pm

thomas7669 wrote:I was referencing this quote on the previous page

I am not that familiar with LRAP programs, but my recollection is that it is for most. Certainly check with your school's program to be sure.

There are other alternatives, such as the $65k in SLRP funds for the Army and Air Force,


It sounds like the poster was talking about something other than school repayment programs. Maybe I misread it.

That's called Student Loan Repayment. I don't know if it's still in effect but I know I have it http://armystrongstories.com/blogger/be ... tter-deal/

AFJAGHopeful1988

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Re: Military Law

Postby AFJAGHopeful1988 » Sat Sep 29, 2012 5:05 pm

I'm currently in law school (went straight through from undergrad to law school), and I am going through the JAG application Process. Unfortunately, my parents are both strongly opposed to any of their children entering the military in any capacity. I've tried to discuss it with them at various times over the past few years as JAG has been something I have been interested in for a long time, but the conversations have gotten very emotional and I usually just end the conversation for the sake of avoiding an argument. At this point I try not to bring it up. That said, I feel very uncomfortable hiding it from them that I am going thorugh the JAG application process and if I do get a commission, springing it on them that I was entering the military would be very difficult for them. I think it's time that they and I had a serious conversation about it. Has anyone else had this problem? If so, how did you deal with this conversation/issue?

brownshoe

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Re: Military Law

Postby brownshoe » Sat Sep 29, 2012 8:04 pm

AFJAGHopeful1988 wrote:I'm currently in law school (went straight through from undergrad to law school), and I am going through the JAG application Process. Unfortunately, my parents are both strongly opposed to any of their children entering the military in any capacity. I've tried to discuss it with them at various times over the past few years as JAG has been something I have been interested in for a long time, but the conversations have gotten very emotional and I usually just end the conversation for the sake of avoiding an argument. At this point I try not to bring it up. That said, I feel very uncomfortable hiding it from them that I am going thorugh the JAG application process and if I do get a commission, springing it on them that I was entering the military would be very difficult for them. I think it's time that they and I had a serious conversation about it. Has anyone else had this problem? If so, how did you deal with this conversation/issue?

I hope this doesn't sound too harsh, but if you're 24/25, there's not much conversation to be had. "Mom/Dad, this is my chosen profession - I'd appreciate your support, but if you choose not to, that's fine - I'll still love you either way."

AFJAGHopeful1988

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Re: Military Law

Postby AFJAGHopeful1988 » Sat Sep 29, 2012 8:27 pm

brownshoe wrote:
AFJAGHopeful1988 wrote:I'm currently in law school (went straight through from undergrad to law school), and I am going through the JAG application Process. Unfortunately, my parents are both strongly opposed to any of their children entering the military in any capacity. I've tried to discuss it with them at various times over the past few years as JAG has been something I have been interested in for a long time, but the conversations have gotten very emotional and I usually just end the conversation for the sake of avoiding an argument. At this point I try not to bring it up. That said, I feel very uncomfortable hiding it from them that I am going thorugh the JAG application process and if I do get a commission, springing it on them that I was entering the military would be very difficult for them. I think it's time that they and I had a serious conversation about it. Has anyone else had this problem? If so, how did you deal with this conversation/issue?

I hope this doesn't sound too harsh, but if you're 24/25, there's not much conversation to be had. "Mom/Dad, this is my chosen profession - I'd appreciate your support, but if you choose not to, that's fine - I'll still love you either way."


I appreciate your candor. To be clear, I know what I want to do and this conversation is not a conversation regarding what my life plans will be. While I would appreciate their approval, I came to terms with the fact that I likely will not get it years ago. I would, however, prefer to be able to address some of their concerns when i talk to them regarding safety, etc. While they will not approve, I would like to make this as easy for them as possible.

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JCFindley

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Re: Military Law

Postby JCFindley » Sat Sep 29, 2012 9:11 pm

AFJAGHopeful1988 wrote:
brownshoe wrote:
AFJAGHopeful1988 wrote:I'm currently in law school (went straight through from undergrad to law school), and I am going through the JAG application Process. Unfortunately, my parents are both strongly opposed to any of their children entering the military in any capacity. I've tried to discuss it with them at various times over the past few years as JAG has been something I have been interested in for a long time, but the conversations have gotten very emotional and I usually just end the conversation for the sake of avoiding an argument. At this point I try not to bring it up. That said, I feel very uncomfortable hiding it from them that I am going thorugh the JAG application process and if I do get a commission, springing it on them that I was entering the military would be very difficult for them. I think it's time that they and I had a serious conversation about it. Has anyone else had this problem? If so, how did you deal with this conversation/issue?

I hope this doesn't sound too harsh, but if you're 24/25, there's not much conversation to be had. "Mom/Dad, this is my chosen profession - I'd appreciate your support, but if you choose not to, that's fine - I'll still love you either way."


I appreciate your candor. To be clear, I know what I want to do and this conversation is not a conversation regarding what my life plans will be. While I would appreciate their approval, I came to terms with the fact that I likely will not get it years ago. I would, however, prefer to be able to address some of their concerns when i talk to them regarding safety, etc. While they will not approve, I would like to make this as easy for them as possible.


What are their concerns? Which service/services are you attempting to join?

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Esquire

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Re: Military Law

Postby Esquire » Sun Sep 30, 2012 7:01 am

AFJAGHopeful1988 wrote:
brownshoe wrote:
AFJAGHopeful1988 wrote:I'm currently in law school (went straight through from undergrad to law school), and I am going through the JAG application Process. Unfortunately, my parents are both strongly opposed to any of their children entering the military in any capacity. I've tried to discuss it with them at various times over the past few years as JAG has been something I have been interested in for a long time, but the conversations have gotten very emotional and I usually just end the conversation for the sake of avoiding an argument. At this point I try not to bring it up. That said, I feel very uncomfortable hiding it from them that I am going thorugh the JAG application process and if I do get a commission, springing it on them that I was entering the military would be very difficult for them. I think it's time that they and I had a serious conversation about it. Has anyone else had this problem? If so, how did you deal with this conversation/issue?

I hope this doesn't sound too harsh, but if you're 24/25, there's not much conversation to be had. "Mom/Dad, this is my chosen profession - I'd appreciate your support, but if you choose not to, that's fine - I'll still love you either way."


I appreciate your candor. To be clear, I know what I want to do and this conversation is not a conversation regarding what my life plans will be. While I would appreciate their approval, I came to terms with the fact that I likely will not get it years ago. I would, however, prefer to be able to address some of their concerns when i talk to them regarding safety, etc. While they will not approve, I would like to make this as easy for them as possible.

If you're trying to go USAF, based on your username, just tell them your job will probably be far safer than being a stockboy. If their worry is a deployment, you're going to actually have to fight to get one these days. That concern shouldn't be on their minds.

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JCFindley

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Re: Military Law

Postby JCFindley » Sun Sep 30, 2012 8:52 am

Esquire wrote:If you're trying to go USAF, based on your username, just tell them your job will probably be far safer than being a stockboy. If their worry is a deployment, you're going to actually have to fight to get one these days. That concern shouldn't be on their minds.


Yupp. The military is not a particularly dangerous career path unless you are in a combat unit or other job where you put your life on the line on a regular basis. (EOD comes to mind here.)

Especially in the Air Force, there just aren't that many jobs that are all that dangerous. SOME aviation, EOD, CCTs, PJs, ALOs and I am sure a few more I am not thinking of but short of a WWIII situation or terrorist attack, JAGs are just not going to be in dangerous situations in general. The same would apply to the Navy though you may spend some time on a ship but again, short of short of WWIII ships are a relatively safe place to be.

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BruceWayne

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Re: Military Law

Postby BruceWayne » Sun Sep 30, 2012 3:36 pm

Anyone have any experience with Robins in Warner Robins, GA? Particularly in regards to what JAGS are doing there.

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JCFindley

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Re: Military Law

Postby JCFindley » Sun Sep 30, 2012 4:12 pm

BruceWayne wrote:Anyone have any experience with Robins in Warner Robins, GA? Particularly in regards to what JAGS are doing there.



I have been there a bunch and can tell you about the area and base though what Jags do there would be pure speculation on my part.

Speculation: It is a pretty large depot base which means there is a lot of military contracting going on which should mean that JAGs would do quite a bit of transactional work there but just guessing on my part.

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BruceWayne

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Re: Military Law

Postby BruceWayne » Sun Sep 30, 2012 4:15 pm

JCFindley wrote:
BruceWayne wrote:Anyone have any experience with Robins in Warner Robins, GA? Particularly in regards to what JAGS are doing there.



I have been there a bunch and can tell you about the area and base though what Jags do there would be pure speculation on my part.

Speculation: It is a pretty large depot base which means there is a lot of military contracting going on which should mean that JAGs would do quite a bit of transactional work there but just guessing on my part.


Thanks that's actually about all I wanted--very helpful!

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Patrick Bateman

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Re: Military Law

Postby Patrick Bateman » Sun Sep 30, 2012 10:59 pm

AFJAGHopeful1988 wrote:I'm currently in law school (went straight through from undergrad to law school), and I am going through the JAG application Process. Unfortunately, my parents are both strongly opposed to any of their children entering the military in any capacity. I've tried to discuss it with them at various times over the past few years as JAG has been something I have been interested in for a long time, but the conversations have gotten very emotional and I usually just end the conversation for the sake of avoiding an argument. At this point I try not to bring it up. That said, I feel very uncomfortable hiding it from them that I am going thorugh the JAG application process and if I do get a commission, springing it on them that I was entering the military would be very difficult for them. I think it's time that they and I had a serious conversation about it. Has anyone else had this problem? If so, how did you deal with this conversation/issue?


Parents like this generally fall into two camps: the first have no fundamental issue with the military but have the perfectly reasonable fear for the safety of their children. The second tend to be the sort that are so "liberal" that they hate the military in some form, despite having no service background or first-hand knowledge about how it functions.

If they are in the first camp - you need to educate them. Consider talking to a nearby AFB Legal Office; ask for a base tour and Q&A from one of the active duty JAGs. Let you parents see first hand what day-to-day on an AFB is like. A lot of civilians also simply do not understand that combat arms positions are a world apart from staff positions - most assume that everyone wearing the uniform can moonlight as a Ranger or SEAL.

They also need to learn about deployments - your folks may assume you would be in some door-kicker position in the AOR. While there is always the risk of indirect fire on a FOB and Green-On-Blue, them understanding you are in legal/advisory role while deployed and realtively safe may go a long way.

This thread is a great place to learn about some aspects JAG service but the information you need to convince your folks is probably going to have to come from somewhere more direct.

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Ty Webb

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Re: Military Law

Postby Ty Webb » Mon Oct 01, 2012 12:34 am

My dad provided some comfort to my mom by letting her know that I'm probably 4x more likely to get gunned down in the third ward of Houston (where my LS is) than in Kabul or Kandahar. And that I'm probably 10x as likely to get run over by an 18-wheeler on the interstate as I am to die in combat.

That made her feel better...and then it didn't.



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