Military Law

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leedleed
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Re: Military Law

Postby leedleed » Wed Aug 29, 2012 6:00 pm

Anyone know anything about waivers for hypertension/high blood pressure for the Navy? I'm wondering what the procedure is like to get a waiver if necessary, and if anyone even knows what the cut off line is for hypertension (what BP measurement is considered to be not physically qualified for JAG). Thanks in advance!

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spleenworship
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Re: Military Law

Postby spleenworship » Wed Aug 29, 2012 6:26 pm

leedleed wrote:Anyone know anything about waivers for hypertension/high blood pressure for the Navy? I'm wondering what the procedure is like to get a waiver if necessary, and if anyone even knows what the cut off line is for hypertension (what BP measurement is considered to be not physically qualified for JAG). Thanks in advance!



I don't know the exact answer to your question, but after research I can tell you this: It would be way better to not have to ask for a waiver. If it is possible to get that down with diet and exercise instead of medication, I would do that and pass your history of hypertension off to the MEPS doc as a "I had it for a little while cuz I wasn't running enough and eating too much kielbasa, but its all good now."

leedleed
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Re: Military Law

Postby leedleed » Wed Aug 29, 2012 11:36 pm

I agree with you. Thanks for that.

But just out of curiosity, (it seems like it from general research off Google) is the maximum BP 140/90 for the Navy?

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LazinessPerSe
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Re: Military Law

Postby LazinessPerSe » Fri Aug 31, 2012 1:45 am

Submitting USN JAG application tomorrow. Have ref letters from: UG Prof (graduated MCL in Finance), 1L Law Prof, LCDR Recruiter (family friend), and retired JAG CAPT (2 years out - family friend). #3/125 in 1L class, transferred to T1, 4 CALI awards, 154 LSAT + 3.9 UGPA.

Wish me luck - should have my interview sometime later in September.

chicubs88
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Re: Military Law

Postby chicubs88 » Fri Aug 31, 2012 2:24 am

The Marine Corps didn't make a big deal out of high blood pressure for me. All I had to do was go to someone who was certified to check my blood pressure and have them check my pressure 3 consecutive days, once in the morning and once at night, and then have them record the results. I even have a heart murmur and was still cleared. Considering that the USMC sent me to OCS to partake in a hell of a lot of strenuous activity that Navy JAG wont require, I think you should be fine as long as your blood pressure isn't routinely very high. Although, when it comes to the military and medical waivers, nothing is predictable. I should point out though, that when I had my blood pressure checked, it was just barely under the highest allowed all 3 days, but it was still acceptable. If you are unable to get your blood pressure down, I honestly don't know how big of a roadblock that could be.

Fed_Atty
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Re: Military Law

Postby Fed_Atty » Fri Aug 31, 2012 8:21 am

LazinessPerSe wrote:Submitting USN JAG application tomorrow. Have ref letters from: UG Prof (graduated MCL in Finance), 1L Law Prof, LCDR Recruiter (family friend), and retired JAG CAPT (2 years out - family friend). #3/125 in 1L class, transferred to T1, 4 CALI awards, 154 LSAT + 3.9 UGPA.

Wish me luck - should have my interview sometime later in September.


Good luck to you - looks like the biggest negative is the LSAT score - however, your high class rank and the fact that you are now at a T1 should help.

leedleed
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Re: Military Law

Postby leedleed » Fri Aug 31, 2012 10:19 pm

chicubs88 wrote:The Marine Corps didn't make a big deal out of high blood pressure for me. All I had to do was go to someone who was certified to check my blood pressure and have them check my pressure 3 consecutive days, once in the morning and once at night, and then have them record the results. I even have a heart murmur and was still cleared. Considering that the USMC sent me to OCS to partake in a hell of a lot of strenuous activity that Navy JAG wont require, I think you should be fine as long as your blood pressure isn't routinely very high. Although, when it comes to the military and medical waivers, nothing is predictable. I should point out though, that when I had my blood pressure checked, it was just barely under the highest allowed all 3 days, but it was still acceptable. If you are unable to get your blood pressure down, I honestly don't know how big of a roadblock that could be.


OK, thanks for your feedback. I am just a little higher above average and hoping it won't be a big deal. At times I do get near 140/90, so I was worried.

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JCFindley
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Re: Military Law

Postby JCFindley » Fri Aug 31, 2012 10:49 pm

NavyJAG1 wrote:
LazinessPerSe wrote:Submitting USN JAG application tomorrow. Have ref letters from: UG Prof (graduated MCL in Finance), 1L Law Prof, LCDR Recruiter (family friend), and retired JAG CAPT (2 years out - family friend). #3/125 in 1L class, transferred to T1, 4 CALI awards, 154 LSAT + 3.9 UGPA.

Wish me luck - should have my interview sometime later in September.


Good luck to you - looks like the biggest negative is the LSAT score - however, your high class rank and the fact that you are now at a T1 should help.


Just curious, does the JAG Corps actually ask or even care about the LSAT? Not like you are applying to LS, nor does the military report to USN and compete against other services for rankings.

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JCFindley
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Re: Military Law

Postby JCFindley » Fri Aug 31, 2012 10:56 pm

leedleed wrote:
OK, thanks for your feedback. I am just a little higher above average and hoping it won't be a big deal. At times I do get near 140/90, so I was worried.


Unless you are on medication or it is on record that you have an issue there are a few things that you can do to keep it low for the physical. Look into some meditation techniques that you can use while they take your BP. In all seriousness, I did this on every flight physical I ever took and it does work. Also I have been told a couple low dose aspirin can help too. Obviously, if you are way over it won't make enough difference.

As said above, it is always better not to need a waiver and this is especially true before you are in.

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LazinessPerSe
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Re: Military Law

Postby LazinessPerSe » Fri Aug 31, 2012 11:43 pm

JCFindley wrote:
NavyJAG1 wrote:
LazinessPerSe wrote:Submitting USN JAG application tomorrow. Have ref letters from: UG Prof (graduated MCL in Finance), 1L Law Prof, LCDR Recruiter (family friend), and retired JAG CAPT (2 years out - family friend). #3/125 in 1L class, transferred to T1, 4 CALI awards, 154 LSAT + 3.9 UGPA.

Wish me luck - should have my interview sometime later in September.


Good luck to you - looks like the biggest negative is the LSAT score - however, your high class rank and the fact that you are now at a T1 should help.


Just curious, does the JAG Corps actually ask or even care about the LSAT? Not like you are applying to LS, nor does the military report to USN and compete against other services for rankings.


Yes and no. Yes because it's part of the "whole person package" and no because, well, it's less important than grades / recs / interview eval. You have to report it.

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JCFindley
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Re: Military Law

Postby JCFindley » Sat Sep 01, 2012 7:17 am

LazinessPerSe wrote:
Yes and no. Yes because it's part of the "whole person package" and no because, well, it's less important than grades / recs / interview eval. You have to report it.


Thanks L, while I don't really understand their logic, the one thing I do understand after 21 years in is there is NO regulation that demands the military ever has to be logical.

andythefir
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Re: Military Law

Postby andythefir » Sat Sep 01, 2012 9:12 am

From what I've seen the LSAT is like almost anything else in applying to the JAG: it can't really help you but it can definitely hurt you. Talking to recruiters undergrad grades, LSAT, law school grades, work experience, law school attended are like boxes to check before they get to your interview, which is really the meat of the application.

Fed_Atty
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Re: Military Law

Postby Fed_Atty » Sat Sep 01, 2012 9:15 am

The navy tracks the average and median LSAT score - in some ways it is a good tool because it is standardized - in other ways it is imperfect for the whole host of reasons that you will see all over this board. Even though we have a selection rate of right around 5%, we are still going full bore with recruiting.

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JCFindley
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Re: Military Law

Postby JCFindley » Sat Sep 01, 2012 9:59 am

NavyJAG1 wrote:The navy tracks the average and median LSAT score - in some ways it is a good tool because it is standardized - in other ways it is imperfect for the whole host of reasons that you will see all over this board. Even though we have a selection rate of right around 5%, we are still going full bore with recruiting.


andythefir wrote:From what I've seen the LSAT is like almost anything else in applying to the JAG: it can't really help you but it can definitely hurt you. Talking to recruiters undergrad grades, LSAT, law school grades, work experience, law school attended are like boxes to check before they get to your interview, which is really the meat of the application.


Thank yall. While the info doesn't affect me directly, I am asked about the JAG corps a lot already in school and like to help anyone I can looking to go in the military so I answer what I can and send them to this thread for better info.

That all makes sense. Before they use limited training slots, spend a lot of money or even grant an interview for someone the military is about why shouldn't we take the candidate v. how great he/she is. It was that way for pilots as well. Hay fever? Sorry, have a nice day...

JC

Kobe_Teeth
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Re: Military Law

Postby Kobe_Teeth » Mon Sep 03, 2012 12:58 pm

I waited to apply until 3L for personal reasons. Am I still fighting an uphill battle? Why the stigma on 3Ls? Just because we didn't get a job at OCI?

Pogues
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Re: Military Law

Postby Pogues » Mon Sep 03, 2012 1:55 pm

I don't think there is any "stigma" about applying until your 3L year. From what I hear, applying during your 1L and 2L years can help, because it shows that you are really interested in the military. BUT, I don't think the selection board will frown upon your application packet because you only applied your 3L year. That will just be one factor that the SJA and the board will consider.

Please take my comment with a grain of salt here - I'm not exactly the expert on selection boards. I applied for OYCP and was denied, and applied for DAP again and the SJA said it might help.

Best of luck to you Kobe. Which branch are you considering?

Kobe_Teeth
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Re: Military Law

Postby Kobe_Teeth » Mon Sep 03, 2012 3:10 pm

Pogues wrote:I don't think there is any "stigma" about applying until your 3L year. From what I hear, applying during your 1L and 2L years can help, because it shows that you are really interested in the military. BUT, I don't think the selection board will frown upon your application packet because you only applied your 3L year. That will just be one factor that the SJA and the board will consider.

Please take my comment with a grain of salt here - I'm not exactly the expert on selection boards. I applied for OYCP and was denied, and applied for DAP again and the SJA said it might help.

Best of luck to you Kobe. Which branch are you considering?


Navy and Air Force (fiance nixed the Army idea). My app is 3/4ths done, just waiting on a couple Letters of Rec. from employer and prof. I'm hoping for the best, but not counting on anything because my UG numbers suck and I'm only on a secondary journal. My grades are solid, top 1/3, so not great (@T2 school). My background is service related - former HS Eng. Teacher, and my WE in LS is public interest related. I have a shot, I think, just maybe not a good one.

Fed_Atty
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Re: Military Law

Postby Fed_Atty » Mon Sep 03, 2012 4:31 pm

For the Navy, there is no disadvantage applying 3L year, in fact, you will be competing against 3Ls only. We have different quotas for 2Ls and 3Ls.

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Patrick Bateman
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Re: Military Law

Postby Patrick Bateman » Mon Sep 03, 2012 5:10 pm

Kobe_Teeth wrote:
Pogues wrote:I don't think there is any "stigma" about applying until your 3L year. From what I hear, applying during your 1L and 2L years can help, because it shows that you are really interested in the military. BUT, I don't think the selection board will frown upon your application packet because you only applied your 3L year. That will just be one factor that the SJA and the board will consider.

Please take my comment with a grain of salt here - I'm not exactly the expert on selection boards. I applied for OYCP and was denied, and applied for DAP again and the SJA said it might help.

Best of luck to you Kobe. Which branch are you considering?


Navy and Air Force (fiance nixed the Army idea). My app is 3/4ths done, just waiting on a couple Letters of Rec. from employer and prof. I'm hoping for the best, but not counting on anything because my UG numbers suck and I'm only on a secondary journal. My grades are solid, top 1/3, so not great (@T2 school). My background is service related - former HS Eng. Teacher, and my WE in LS is public interest related. I have a shot, I think, just maybe not a good one.


That sounds like a solid package overall. Hopefully you have some advocacy stuff in there as well (moot court, trial team, solid grades in Evidence/Crim Pro/etc). You can spin your teaching experience as an excellent form of advocacy training as well – having to distill complicated concepts for young minds is not that much different from having to make comprehensible legal arguments to officer panels. No doubt a lot of your job involved significant pre-class preparation, thinking on your feet, and dealing with unexpected questions – pretty much the same skills I use as a trial attorney.

Make sure you are able to address why you are applying later in the game. I do not think it is necessarily a weak point if you can articulately explain why. I applied as a 3L and my answer was simple: I entered law school convinced I wanted BigLaw. After my 2L AF Internship, I knew I wanted to serve. Simple as that. I don’t think anyone will fault you for not being born with a JAG Badge on your chest – there is not just one route to military service.

Kobe_Teeth
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Re: Military Law

Postby Kobe_Teeth » Mon Sep 03, 2012 5:18 pm

Patrick Bateman wrote:
Kobe_Teeth wrote:
Pogues wrote:I don't think there is any "stigma" about applying until your 3L year. From what I hear, applying during your 1L and 2L years can help, because it shows that you are really interested in the military. BUT, I don't think the selection board will frown upon your application packet because you only applied your 3L year. That will just be one factor that the SJA and the board will consider.

Please take my comment with a grain of salt here - I'm not exactly the expert on selection boards. I applied for OYCP and was denied, and applied for DAP again and the SJA said it might help.

Best of luck to you Kobe. Which branch are you considering?


Navy and Air Force (fiance nixed the Army idea). My app is 3/4ths done, just waiting on a couple Letters of Rec. from employer and prof. I'm hoping for the best, but not counting on anything because my UG numbers suck and I'm only on a secondary journal. My grades are solid, top 1/3, so not great (@T2 school). My background is service related - former HS Eng. Teacher, and my WE in LS is public interest related. I have a shot, I think, just maybe not a good one.


That sounds like a solid package overall. Hopefully you have some advocacy stuff in there as well (moot court, trial team, solid grades in Evidence/Crim Pro/etc). You can spin your teaching experience as an excellent form of advocacy training as well – having to distill complicated concepts for young minds is not that much different from having to make comprehensible legal arguments to officer panels. No doubt a lot of your job involved significant pre-class preparation, thinking on your feet, and dealing with unexpected questions – pretty much the same skills I use as a trial attorney.

Make sure you are able to address why you are applying later in the game. I do not think it is necessarily a weak point if you can articulately explain why. I applied as a 3L and my answer was simple: I entered law school convinced I wanted BigLaw. After my 2L AF Internship, I knew I wanted to serve. Simple as that. I don’t think anyone will fault you for not being born with a JAG Badge on your chest – there is not just one route to military service.


This makes me feel better. Thank you. I don't have trial team or moot court, but I very good grades in my advocacy courses and will be getting good recs. from those classes, so maybe that can cover a weak spot. Also, I can explain waiting, my personal life is crazy right now (in good ways that I won't bore TLS with e.g. new neice, planning my wedding, fiance also in grad school), and it will just be easier to begin this aspect (should I be fortunate enough) of my life next year.

Kobe_Teeth
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Re: Military Law

Postby Kobe_Teeth » Tue Sep 04, 2012 3:39 pm

One last question for the time being, I have a few close friends who are in the Army (I'm applying Navy & Air Force), who are Captains, and still in the Army, as officers, but not JAG. Would having one of them write me a letter be a good idea or bad idea? They know me on a strictly personal level, and are some of my best friends. Would this just be useless or would it carry some weight towards vouching for character?

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Patrick Bateman
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Re: Military Law

Postby Patrick Bateman » Tue Sep 04, 2012 10:51 pm

Kobe_Teeth wrote:One last question for the time being, I have a few close friends who are in the Army (I'm applying Navy & Air Force), who are Captains, and still in the Army, as officers, but not JAG. Would having one of them write me a letter be a good idea or bad idea? They know me on a strictly personal level, and are some of my best friends. Would this just be useless or would it carry some weight towards vouching for character?


I recommend against it.

Looking at this generally, I'm not sure how much weight a board will give a letter from a Company Grade Officer. Figure that the board will all be O-5 and up - it will be hard for an O-3 to impress them in regard to being able to identify you as a solid potential officer. I'm sure there are some exceptions - if the letter writer was an 11-A and serving a leadership legitimate role like a Company Commander, that letter might carry some weight, but there will still be the "what the hell does a CPT know anyway?" bias.

That all also does not get around the fact that a friend is writing you the letter for a professional position. I don't think the board will care much about any "he's a really good dude" or anything like that. Again, maybe there is a unique facet to your relationship with your friend but the letters you want are folks that supervised/managed/taught you. Don't feel a huge amount of pressure to get a letter from a military member - there are plenty of JAGs that did not have a military letter of rec in their application package.

Kobe_Teeth
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Re: Military Law

Postby Kobe_Teeth » Wed Sep 05, 2012 12:12 am

Good to know. Thank you.

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Esquire
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Re: Military Law

Postby Esquire » Wed Sep 05, 2012 12:44 pm

Kobe_Teeth wrote:(fiance nixed the Army idea).

Out of curiosity, why's that?

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JCFindley
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Re: Military Law

Postby JCFindley » Wed Sep 05, 2012 1:20 pm

Esquire wrote:
Kobe_Teeth wrote:(fiance nixed the Army idea).

Out of curiosity, why's that?



The green just clashes with his eyes.....




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