Military Law

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Patrick Bateman
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Re: Military Law

Postby Patrick Bateman » Thu Aug 09, 2012 11:49 am

Scotusnerd wrote:Thank you, Captain Bateman. I'm not currently physically fit enough (I weigh 256, should be 227), so I'll hold off until I lose a few more pounds and have some time to research the culture thoroughly. I'm working out 30 minutes, six days a week, eating right and all that jazz. It's just going to be a matter of time. I figure it's a chance for me to show dedication and seriousness about wanting to be a JAG, and I'm not going to mess it up.

I appreciate the advice.


I didn't mean to scare you off from pursuing the externship this semester. Fitness is important but I don't think you'll be shooting yourself in the foot if you start externing while in the process of getting fit. You are already making the important lifestyle changes - I would view that as a positive and an indication of that you take the fitness aspect of military service seriously.

I think I've said this before regarding internships but no one expects you to be 100% Air Force fluent starting off on Day 1 as an extern/intern. Everyone knows you are a law student and a civilian that will be learning the ropes.

If you were considering the externship for this semester, by all means keep pursuing it.

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Scotusnerd
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Re: Military Law

Postby Scotusnerd » Thu Aug 09, 2012 11:52 am

Patrick Bateman wrote:
I didn't mean to scare you off from pursuing the externship this semester. Fitness is important but I don't think you'll be shooting yourself in the foot if you start externing while in the process of getting fit. You are already making the important lifestyle changes - I would view that as a positive and an indication of that you take the fitness aspect of military service seriously.

I think I've said this before regarding internships but no one expects you to be 100% Air Force fluent starting off on Day 1 as an extern/intern. Everyone knows you are a law student and a civilian that will be learning the ropes.

If you were considering the externship for this semester, by all means keep pursuing it.


Absolutely! I'm planning on trying to find one around October or so. Thank you again. :D

andmealso
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Re: Military Law

Postby andmealso » Fri Aug 10, 2012 4:49 pm

I’m a 2L and considering applying to the AF One-Year College Program and the Navy Student Program. I am working my way through all the helpful info in this tread—thanks to everyone who has contributed. I have a few questions before upcoming informational interviews with Capt/ LTs.

For both AF and Navy, in your first four years of active duty how often, and for how long, do you leave your station for assignments? How long are typical assignments to one station?

After your first four years, is it typical to stay at one station or do you tend to move every few years?

Thanks!

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Patrick Bateman
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Re: Military Law

Postby Patrick Bateman » Fri Aug 10, 2012 5:19 pm

andmealso wrote:I’m a 2L and considering applying to the AF One-Year College Program and the Navy Student Program. I am working my way through all the helpful info in this tread—thanks to everyone who has contributed. I have a few questions before upcoming informational interviews with Capt/ LTs.

For both AF and Navy, in your first four years of active duty how often, and for how long, do you leave your station for assignments? How long are typical assignments to one station?

After your first four years, is it typical to stay at one station or do you tend to move every few years?

Thanks!


For the Air Force, the standard is that you will do 2 x 2 year assignments, each at a different base. Three year assignments are starting to become a little more common and sometimes short notice PCSs do come up however.

While there a few exceptions, you can expect to change station or assignment, often both, every two or three years. Sometimes you will start a new job at a completely new base, other times you will start a new job at the base at which you are already stationed.

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spleenworship
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Re: Military Law

Postby spleenworship » Fri Aug 10, 2012 6:12 pm

Summer intern interview:

Remove handlebar mustache, or no?

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Patrick Bateman
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Re: Military Law

Postby Patrick Bateman » Fri Aug 10, 2012 6:23 pm

spleenworship wrote:Summer intern interview:

Remove handlebar mustache, or no?


If I understood that "In the Navy" recruiting music video by the Village People correctly, USN is good to go in respect to a nice handlebar mustache.

--ImageRemoved--

I kid, I kid.

If you have to ask, the answer in life is "no" 99% of the time. Maybe 99.5% when you are dealing with the military.

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spleenworship
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Re: Military Law

Postby spleenworship » Fri Aug 10, 2012 6:30 pm

Patrick Bateman wrote:
spleenworship wrote:Summer intern interview:

Remove handlebar mustache, or no?


If I understood that "In the Navy" recruiting music video by the Village People correctly, USN is good to go in respect to a nice handlebar mustache.

--ImageRemoved--

I kid, I kid.

If you have to ask, the answer in life is "no" 99% of the time. Maybe 99.5% when you are dealing with the military.


I've worked on it for almost a year. It is amazing. I'm going to miss it.

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Scotusnerd
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Re: Military Law

Postby Scotusnerd » Fri Aug 10, 2012 7:04 pm

spleenworship wrote:
Patrick Bateman wrote:
spleenworship wrote:Summer intern interview:

Remove handlebar mustache, or no?


If I understood that "In the Navy" recruiting music video by the Village People correctly, USN is good to go in respect to a nice handlebar mustache.

--ImageRemoved--

I kid, I kid.

If you have to ask, the answer in life is "no" 99% of the time. Maybe 99.5% when you are dealing with the military.


I've worked on it for almost a year. It is amazing. I'm going to miss it.


If it makes you feel better, I'm gonna be shaving an epic beard I've been growing for two years. :?

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spleenworship
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Re: Military Law

Postby spleenworship » Fri Aug 10, 2012 7:12 pm

Scotusnerd wrote:
spleenworship wrote:
I've worked on it for almost a year. It is amazing. I'm going to miss it.


If it makes you feel better, I'm gonna be shaving an epic beard I've been growing for two years. :?


My mustache is visible from behind me. So epic. :cry: :cry:

I know they said you have to be prepared to make sacrifices to serve your country... but couldn't I just punch myself in the nads a few times instead?

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Scotusnerd
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Re: Military Law

Postby Scotusnerd » Fri Aug 10, 2012 7:50 pm

spleenworship wrote:
My mustache is visible from behind me. So epic. :cry: :cry:

I know they said you have to be prepared to make sacrifices to serve your country... but couldn't I just punch myself in the nads a few times instead?


You should donate it to locks for love. :D

Starscream15
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Re: Military Law

Postby Starscream15 » Fri Aug 10, 2012 7:52 pm

spleenworship wrote:
Scotusnerd wrote:
spleenworship wrote:
I've worked on it for almost a year. It is amazing. I'm going to miss it.


If it makes you feel better, I'm gonna be shaving an epic beard I've been growing for two years. :?


My mustache is visible from behind me. So epic. :cry: :cry:

I know they said you have to be prepared to make sacrifices to serve your country... but couldn't I just punch myself in the nads a few times instead?


I would recommend the clean shaven look when you interview. Probably helps to look like you can fit in with the work culture when interviewing for a job. This includes firms and other interviews.

And while they will not punch your nads as a prereq to joining the military, they will definitely juggle your nads at MEPS if you get selected! You also have to participate in some awesome semi naked aerobics with 5 other strangers while being yelled at by a doctor. So lucky you! You have so many things to look forward to! Can you say "sacrifice"..... :P

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JCFindley
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Re: Military Law

Postby JCFindley » Fri Aug 10, 2012 11:46 pm

20 years in the military with at most a week of fuzz and THIS is what I look like now.

Image

Yes, I will shave before OCI but that is a ways away.

Oh, last time I had it this long I walked into a Marine Corps barber and told him I was having urges to buy a chartreuse VW Van covered with peace signs and join a commune in California. Marine Coprs barbers can cure that issue for a LOT less money than a shrink.

andmealso
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Re: Military Law

Postby andmealso » Mon Aug 13, 2012 10:50 am

Patrick Bateman wrote:
andmealso wrote:I’m a 2L and considering applying to the AF One-Year College Program and the Navy Student Program. I am working my way through all the helpful info in this tread—thanks to everyone who has contributed. I have a few questions before upcoming informational interviews with Capt/ LTs.

For both AF and Navy, in your first four years of active duty how often, and for how long, do you leave your station for assignments? How long are typical assignments to one station?

After your first four years, is it typical to stay at one station or do you tend to move every few years?

Thanks!


For the Air Force, the standard is that you will do 2 x 2 year assignments, each at a different base. Three year assignments are starting to become a little more common and sometimes short notice PCSs do come up however.

While there a few exceptions, you can expect to change station or assignment, often both, every two or three years. Sometimes you will start a new job at a completely new base, other times you will start a new job at the base at which you are already stationed.


Thank you!

SchopenhauerFTW
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Re: Military Law

Postby SchopenhauerFTW » Mon Aug 13, 2012 7:37 pm

Patrick Bateman wrote:If I understood that "In the Navy" recruiting music video by the Village People correctly, USN is good to go in respect to a nice handlebar mustache.

--ImageRemoved--

Come on, enjoy your fellow man!

chicubs88
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Re: Military Law

Postby chicubs88 » Wed Aug 15, 2012 3:40 am

Marine Corps JAG here. Just finished OCS and about to start my 2L year. If you have any questions about the selection process, getting in shape, OCS itself, or anything else feel free to post here or PM me.

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Scotusnerd
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Re: Military Law

Postby Scotusnerd » Wed Aug 15, 2012 8:52 am

chicubs88 wrote:Marine Corps JAG here. Just finished OCS and about to start my 2L year. If you have any questions about the selection process, getting in shape, OCS itself, or anything else feel free to post here or PM me.


Thanks for answering questions. How difficult is OCS? I'm trying to get in shape, and I want to know if I stand a reasonable chance of getting into it at the end of my first year of doing this or not.

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Esquire
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Re: Military Law

Postby Esquire » Wed Aug 15, 2012 12:34 pm

Scotusnerd wrote:Thank you, Captain Bateman. I'm not currently physically fit enough (I weigh 256, should be 227), so I'll hold off until I lose a few more pounds and have some time to research the culture thoroughly.

Ehhh, you'll fit right in the AF :mrgreen:

chicubs88
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Re: Military Law

Postby chicubs88 » Thu Aug 16, 2012 1:02 pm

[/quote]Thanks for answering questions. How difficult is OCS? I'm trying to get in shape, and I want to know if I stand a reasonable chance of getting into it at the end of my first year of doing this or not.[/quote]

Physically, you need to be able to run close to a 290 PFT(20 pull-ups, 100 situps in 2 min, and run 3 miles in at least under 20 minutes). Selection for OCC (which is what you would do as a JAG) has gotten incredibly competitive. I ran a 293 PFT and was in the middle of the pack physically. You need to be in good enough shape that you are not in danger of failing or doing poorly on any of the physical tests. You have a lot to worry about while you are there and being able to satisfy all of the physical requirements will be a load off of your mind. To get in shape for OCS I suggest you run, run, and run some more. You do not need to touch weights at all to get ready for OCS. The best workout plan would be one in which you do body weight exercises (pull-ups, push-ups, dips, etc...), run 4-5 times a weight with the length varying between 3-6 miles, and then crossfit/p90x/or some other type of circuit training.

In terms of "difficulty," there isn't a single physical event/obstacle that is impossibly difficult, but rather the challenge is the aggregate effect all of the PT has on your body. While at OCS your body will rarely get a break. Getting 5 hours of sleep will be a luxury you will rarely get to enjoy, especially during the first month and a half. Also, while the food isn't terrible, your diet will consist mainly of carbs that will pump you full of calories to burn off. You will not get much protein and you will become noticeably weaker over the course of training. The real challenge will be to stay motivated and to keep getting out of the rack in the morning. You have to be able to get going even when you are "running on empty."

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Scotusnerd
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Re: Military Law

Postby Scotusnerd » Thu Aug 16, 2012 6:10 pm

Physically, you need to be able to run close to a 290 PFT(20 pull-ups, 100 situps in 2 min, and run 3 miles in at least under 20 minutes). Selection for OCC (which is what you would do as a JAG) has gotten incredibly competitive. I ran a 293 PFT and was in the middle of the pack physically. You need to be in good enough shape that you are not in danger of failing or doing poorly on any of the physical tests. You have a lot to worry about while you are there and being able to satisfy all of the physical requirements will be a load off of your mind. To get in shape for OCS I suggest you run, run, and run some more. You do not need to touch weights at all to get ready for OCS. The best workout plan would be one in which you do body weight exercises (pull-ups, push-ups, dips, etc...), run 4-5 times a weight with the length varying between 3-6 miles, and then crossfit/p90x/or some other type of circuit training.

In terms of "difficulty," there isn't a single physical event/obstacle that is impossibly difficult, but rather the challenge is the aggregate effect all of the PT has on your body. While at OCS your body will rarely get a break. Getting 5 hours of sleep will be a luxury you will rarely get to enjoy, especially during the first month and a half. Also, while the food isn't terrible, your diet will consist mainly of carbs that will pump you full of calories to burn off. You will not get much protein and you will become noticeably weaker over the course of training. The real challenge will be to stay motivated and to keep getting out of the rack in the morning. You have to be able to get going even when you are "running on empty."



Thank you for answering this. I've been trying to figure out how to stagger my JAG applications, and this gives me the information I need. I'm currently overweight, and achieving OCS-level fitness in one year does not seem like a feasible or intelligent option. I'll attempt Marines my 2L year. Marines JAG is difficult to find information on. :D

Much appreciated.

target
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Re: Military Law

Postby target » Thu Aug 16, 2012 8:43 pm

chicubs88 wrote:Physically, you need to be able to run close to a 290 PFT(20 pull-ups, 100 situps in 2 min, and run 3 miles in at least under 20 minutes).


I got to ask. Would it be the 20 pull-ups + 100 situps in 2 mins? Or would it be each set in 2 mins?

If the former, boys, I hope that is specific to the Marine JAG.

chicubs88
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Re: Military Law

Postby chicubs88 » Fri Aug 17, 2012 1:53 am

The sets are separate. Basically, once you're on the pull-up bar you have as much time as you need to do 20, as long as you stay on the bar. You then get a short break and then you do the sit-ups, which must be completed in 2 minutes.

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JCFindley
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Re: Military Law

Postby JCFindley » Fri Aug 17, 2012 2:48 pm

target wrote:
chicubs88 wrote:Physically, you need to be able to run close to a 290 PFT(20 pull-ups, 100 situps in 2 min, and run 3 miles in at least under 20 minutes).


I got to ask. Would it be the 20 pull-ups + 100 situps in 2 mins? Or would it be each set in 2 mins?

If the former, boys, I hope that is specific to the Marine JAG.


Pretty sure the Air Force only requires one pull up and an Air Force pull up is pulling a 12 ounce beer up from the bar.

(In all seriousness, I just asked an Army guy that is over here and for the new Army PFT it is like five pullups and the USAF does not require them unless you want to be a PJ, CRO or CCT. (None of which are JAGs.)

JC

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Patrick Bateman
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Re: Military Law

Postby Patrick Bateman » Fri Aug 17, 2012 3:30 pm

JCFindley wrote:
target wrote:
chicubs88 wrote:Physically, you need to be able to run close to a 290 PFT(20 pull-ups, 100 situps in 2 min, and run 3 miles in at least under 20 minutes).


I got to ask. Would it be the 20 pull-ups + 100 situps in 2 mins? Or would it be each set in 2 mins?

If the former, boys, I hope that is specific to the Marine JAG.


Pretty sure the Air Force only requires one pull up and an Air Force pull up is pulling a 12 ounce beer up from the bar.

(In all seriousness, I just asked an Army guy that is over here and for the new Army PFT it is like five pullups and the USAF does not require them unless you want to be a PJ, CRO or CCT. (None of which are JAGs.)

JC


I’ve always held that there is no better test of upper body and core strength than the pull-up - you can be an overweight meathead and throw out 315 on the bench or fit enough to accomplish the minimum amount of pushups. Pull-ups, however, require a serious level of fitness to accomplish. The Air Force does not require them (excepting, as JC correctly noted, our AFSOC and CSAR assets) and while I think that is a shame, I shudder to think what would happen to our force strength it became a required component.

I’m always conflicted with Air Force fitness standards – I’d always like them to be more rigorous because I am a fitness orientated guy, but at the end of the day, would that make us more effective at our mission of projecting air superiority? Does it become counterproductive to wash out capable maintainers, air crew, and other AF folks due to a increased fitness standard that does not really connect to their ability to do their jobs? Does it matter of my MQ-9 sensor operator or F-15E maintainer can knock out dead hang pull-ups?

And for the record, the 21st century Expeditionary Air Force does not do 12 ounce pull-ups. We are training on 16-ounce Pounders, 22-ounce Double-Deuces, and 24 ounce Tall Boys.

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LSATmakesMeNeurotic
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Re: Military Law

Postby LSATmakesMeNeurotic » Fri Aug 17, 2012 3:35 pm

For some reason, I cannot access the Army JAG webpage that takes you to the applications. It keeps telling me there is a problem with the security certificate. I've tried it with all three browsers I have: Mozilla, Chrome and Internet Explorer.

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JCFindley
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Re: Military Law

Postby JCFindley » Fri Aug 17, 2012 3:42 pm

Patrick Bateman wrote:
I’ve always held that there is no better test of upper body and core strength than the pull-up - you can be an overweight meathead and throw out 315 on the bench or fit enough to accomplish the minimum amount of pushups. Pull-ups, however, require a serious level of fitness to accomplish. The Air Force does not require them (excepting, as JC correctly noted, our AFSOC and CSAR assets) and while I think that is a shame, I shudder to think what would happen to our force strength it became a required component.

I’m always conflicted with Air Force fitness standards – I’d always like them to be more rigorous because I am a fitness orientated guy, but at the end of the day, would that make us more effective at our mission of projecting air superiority? Does it become counterproductive to wash out capable maintainers, air crew, and other AF folks due to a increased fitness standard that does not really connect to their ability to do their jobs? Does it matter of my MQ-9 sensor operator or F-15E maintainer can knock out dead hang pull-ups?

And for the record, the 21st century Expeditionary Air Force does not do 12 ounce pull-ups. We are training on 16-ounce Pounders, 22-ounce Double-Deuces, and 24 ounce Tall Boys.


Agreed on all counts except you are giving intermediate scores for the pullups. The min is the 12 once and the max is the fifth of Jeremiah Weed. Then there are all sorts of scores in between.

The only good thing about the standards being where they are is I maxed every one I ever took. I also applied to be a CRO when they first created the career field. I passed the PT test but eventually it was decided that my knee issue was not conducive to carrying telephone poles over my head and the other fun stuff involved in superman school. (It did solidify my "Crackbaby" call sign though.)
Last edited by JCFindley on Fri Aug 17, 2012 3:46 pm, edited 2 times in total.




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