Military Law

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Patrick Bateman
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Re: Military Law

Postby Patrick Bateman » Thu Jul 12, 2012 10:04 pm

msanders44 wrote:well considering people have said different things as to what it looked at the most when applying I wanted to know others opinions. And it really didn't explain what you are in law school, whether you are JAG or something else because I thought ROTC was for undergrad


I cannot say about the other services but at least with the Air Force, there are no traditional recruiters. As noted throughout this thread, JAX is the Gatekeeper/Keymaster (depending on your Ghostbusters preferance) for JA recruiting. Air Force JAG accessions are not run through the Air Force Personnel Center and the traditional recruiters have absolutely zero idea how we operate. Based on my memory of applying as an intern with the Army, their system of Field Screening Officers (FSO) is similarly unique.

I'm not going to quibble in regard to the information you are seeking being on this board or not. That said, in that some of us have been posting here for four years, there are not many of the "tell me about JAG" questions that have not been covered in detail from multiple services.

And as Shock correctly noted, all the services have their own JAG specific recruiting sites. For example:

Image

You'll see just about every possible applicant category on there. Your ROTC confusion should be cleared up with a few minutes exploring this site.

The regulars on this thread have put in a ton of time and knowledge into this board. There is a general expectation that folks will do their homework first - a good lesson for anyone aspiring to earn their officer's commission. So pardon the snark. That said, I will not apologize for referencing possibly the greatest pop song of the 21st century.

msanders44
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Re: Military Law

Postby msanders44 » Thu Jul 12, 2012 10:15 pm

Okay thank you. I had not looked at the Air Force's site yet, but I've looked at Navy and Marine.

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Acronin689
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Re: Military Law

Postby Acronin689 » Fri Jul 13, 2012 4:01 pm

Don't know if this has been answered already but I'll ask it anyway, Are you allowed to apply for DC with more than one branch at a time?

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JCFindley
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Re: Military Law

Postby JCFindley » Fri Jul 13, 2012 4:23 pm

Acronin689 wrote:Don't know if this has been answered already but I'll ask it anyway, Are you allowed to apply for DC with more than one branch at a time?


If you mean you want to work in DC and you don't care what service it is so long as it is DC good luck with that.

Military service, at least in the O ranks, doesn't work like that. You want to serve it is to serve and you will go wherever the service needs you. You have SOME input but that doesn't happen until you are done with your initial training and even then, the needs of the service comes first.

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Acronin689
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Re: Military Law

Postby Acronin689 » Fri Jul 13, 2012 4:28 pm

What I mean is, can you apply to the Navy and Army both or is it one place and the branch that picks you wants you? I'm a 0L and have very little knowledge of this so I apologize for my ignorance.

shock259
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Re: Military Law

Postby shock259 » Fri Jul 13, 2012 4:29 pm

Yeah, you'll go wherever you they put you.

If you just meant whether you can apply to all of the services at the same time, then the answer is yes. Most/many applicants apply to multiple services. An offer from one of them is not binding.
Last edited by shock259 on Fri Jul 13, 2012 7:26 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Acronin689
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Re: Military Law

Postby Acronin689 » Fri Jul 13, 2012 4:31 pm

Is it on you to do that individually to each service or do you make one JAG application and it goes to all of them?

shock259
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Re: Military Law

Postby shock259 » Fri Jul 13, 2012 4:34 pm

You will apply to each individually, and each branch has a number of different programs that you can apply to at different points in your law school career. The different applications are distinct, but similar. The selection criteria are also very similar.

For more info, check out the website of the respective services you are interested in. With the exception of the Marines, all of the JAG websites are very informative. This thread also has great info on the branches.

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Acronin689
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Re: Military Law

Postby Acronin689 » Fri Jul 13, 2012 4:36 pm

Yeah, this is a great thread. I'm slowly working my way through it. I'm sure my answer was buried in here somewhere. Thanks for the help!

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Esquire
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Re: Military Law

Postby Esquire » Fri Jul 13, 2012 7:13 pm

shock259 wrote:Yeah, you'll go wherever you they put you. DC tours don't happen (at least in the Navy) until further into your career.

My buddy who is a Navy JAG is in DC. He just started recently. Also, for the Army, DC tours can happen early in your career.

shock259
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Re: Military Law

Postby shock259 » Fri Jul 13, 2012 7:27 pm

Thanks for the correction. Edited out my info to avoid any confusion.

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Patrick Bateman
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Re: Military Law

Postby Patrick Bateman » Fri Jul 13, 2012 7:42 pm

Esquire wrote:
shock259 wrote:Yeah, you'll go wherever you they put you. DC tours don't happen (at least in the Navy) until further into your career.

My buddy who is a Navy JAG is in DC. He just started recently. Also, for the Army, DC tours can happen early in your career.


Of course junior Navy JAGs can be assigned to DC - I'm pretty sure we are all well versed with the prince of the Washington Navy Yard, Daniel Kaffee, LTJG, JAGC, USN. He successfully plea bargained 44 cases in 9 months. :D

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laxbrah420
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Re: Military Law

Postby laxbrah420 » Fri Jul 13, 2012 8:00 pm

Esquire wrote:
shock259 wrote:Yeah, you'll go wherever you they put you. DC tours don't happen (at least in the Navy) until further into your career.

My buddy who is a Navy JAG is in DC. He just started recently. Also, for the Army, DC tours can happen early in your career.

Is this your buddy?

Image
(from the Offender Report)

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howell
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Re: Military Law

Postby howell » Fri Jul 13, 2012 8:37 pm

After the bar is over, I'll take a look at consolidating and condensing the info that has been presented on this thread. I'm not sure what format would be best, but it is a great source of info. I've been through this thread multiple times, and I seem to pick up something new every time. Something like a wiki would probably be appropriate - something that allows for continuous updating.

msanders44
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Re: Military Law

Postby msanders44 » Sat Jul 14, 2012 12:48 am

Sorry if this is already answered but adding to what was asked a couple questions ago, I would think that the branches wouldn't like it if you were applying to all of them. So I guess my question is does it look bad to the branches you are applying to if you are applying to more than one?

target
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Re: Military Law

Postby target » Sat Jul 14, 2012 1:29 am

howell wrote:After the bar is over, I'll take a look at consolidating and condensing the info that has been presented on this thread. I'm not sure what format would be best, but it is a great source of info. I've been through this thread multiple times, and I seem to pick up something new every time. Something like a wiki would probably be appropriate - something that allows for continuous updating.


I think a comprehensive post like one of those how to do well in law school would do wonder. And you can ask a mod to add in the OP.

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howell
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Re: Military Law

Postby howell » Sat Jul 14, 2012 8:17 am

msanders44 wrote:Sorry if this is already answered but adding to what was asked a couple questions ago, I would think that the branches wouldn't like it if you were applying to all of them. So I guess my question is does it look bad to the branches you are applying to if you are applying to more than one?


There are other perspectives on this earlier in the thread, but the consensus seemed to be that it doesn't hurt and probably helps, and that goes along with what I have seen too. I think all of my interviewers asked about what other branches I was applying to, and they all encouraged it, especially in light of the difficulty of getting in any one branch. I have never encountered any story of anyone saying, "Oh, you interned for the Army, you're SOL for the Air Force."

It also makes sense that it would be a positive. It shows a commitment to public/military service, it gives you experience with the military (there are great similarities in life in all of the branches), and it gives you a chance to get officers (of any branch) to recommend your work.

I looked up the backgrounds of most of the Air Force 2L interns last summer, and most of them had a variety of prior government and military service - in all branches.

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Esquire
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Re: Military Law

Postby Esquire » Sat Jul 14, 2012 2:42 pm

howell wrote:After the bar is over, I'll take a look at consolidating and condensing the info that has been presented on this thread. I'm not sure what format would be best, but it is a great source of info. I've been through this thread multiple times, and I seem to pick up something new every time. Something like a wiki would probably be appropriate - something that allows for continuous updating.

Ken would pay you if you did such a thing. I'd PM him about it.

SchopenhauerFTW
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Re: Military Law

Postby SchopenhauerFTW » Sat Jul 14, 2012 5:39 pm

howell wrote:After the bar is over, I'll take a look at consolidating and condensing the info that has been presented on this thread. I'm not sure what format would be best, but it is a great source of info. I've been through this thread multiple times, and I seem to pick up something new every time. Something like a wiki would probably be appropriate - something that allows for continuous updating.
Join forces with JCFindley, since he started this thread: viewtopic.php?f=1&t=187630

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Rotor
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Re: Military Law

Postby Rotor » Sat Jul 14, 2012 6:37 pm

SchopenhauerFTW wrote:
howell wrote:After the bar is over, I'll take a look at consolidating and condensing the info that has been presented on this thread. I'm not sure what format would be best, but it is a great source of info. I've been through this thread multiple times, and I seem to pick up something new every time. Something like a wiki would probably be appropriate - something that allows for continuous updating.
Join forces with JCFindley, since he started this thread: http://top-law-schools.com/forums/viewt ... 1&t=187630

I'm not saying don't work with JCF, but I actually see the need for two threads--one for law students who are interested in becoming JAGs and another for military members who are interested in becoming law students. There certainly is some overlap--and it is likely that this thread contains a lot of both. JCF's thread is less about JAG and more about vets becoming students. There is another GI Bill thread out there that has some info, but much is likely out of date with the changes in the program last year.

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JCFindley
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Re: Military Law

Postby JCFindley » Sat Jul 14, 2012 11:31 pm

Rotor wrote:
SchopenhauerFTW wrote:
howell wrote:After the bar is over, I'll take a look at consolidating and condensing the info that has been presented on this thread. I'm not sure what format would be best, but it is a great source of info. I've been through this thread multiple times, and I seem to pick up something new every time. Something like a wiki would probably be appropriate - something that allows for continuous updating.
Join forces with JCFindley, since he started this thread: http://top-law-schools.com/forums/viewt ... 1&t=187630

I'm not saying don't work with JCF, but I actually see the need for two threads--one for law students who are interested in becoming JAGs and another for military members who are interested in becoming law students. There certainly is some overlap--and it is likely that this thread contains a lot of both. JCF's thread is less about JAG and more about vets becoming students. There is another GI Bill thread out there that has some info, but much is likely out of date with the changes in the program last year.


I agree, and you are welcome to add it on mine but separate is probably better since they are vastly different subjects. I comment on this one on general military stuff but know NOTHING JAG specific.

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Patrick Bateman
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Re: Military Law

Postby Patrick Bateman » Sun Jul 15, 2012 12:04 am

howell wrote:
msanders44 wrote:Sorry if this is already answered but adding to what was asked a couple questions ago, I would think that the branches wouldn't like it if you were applying to all of them. So I guess my question is does it look bad to the branches you are applying to if you are applying to more than one?


There are other perspectives on this earlier in the thread, but the consensus seemed to be that it doesn't hurt and probably helps, and that goes along with what I have seen too. I think all of my interviewers asked about what other branches I was applying to, and they all encouraged it, especially in light of the difficulty of getting in any one branch. I have never encountered any story of anyone saying, "Oh, you interned for the Army, you're SOL for the Air Force."

It also makes sense that it would be a positive. It shows a commitment to public/military service, it gives you experience with the military (there are great similarities in life in all of the branches), and it gives you a chance to get officers (of any branch) to recommend your work.

I looked up the backgrounds of most of the Air Force 2L interns last summer, and most of them had a variety of prior government and military service - in all branches.


Overall, I agree with Howell here. Desire to serve is desire to serve - applying across the board can show that desire. And in a practical sense, those of us in JAG right now do see how competitive it is and would not it against an applicant for hedging his/her bets.

I can see applying to all the services also being a negative. All the branches take great pride in their specific contribution to the greater fight. While the desire to serve as an officer is noble, I can think of those SJAs and selection boards that want an applicant that wants to be an Air Force/Army/Navy/Marine Officer. I know I got the "why Air Force?" question when I had my interview and that was a question I spent a significant amount of time researching - I had to spend that time because at the beginning of my internship, I really did not know the answer to that question. I read every book I could find, talked to any AD O or E that had a few minutes, and the like to find out if I truly wanted to join the Air Force, not just earn a pair of generic bars.

Were I the SJA conducting an interview, the tie is going to the applicant that truly wants to be in the Air Force, not the applicant that will be happy serving somewhere. That all said, realistically, if I got an answer like "the Air Force is my number one choice but I am trying to be realistic in light of how competitive it is, so I also have applications in with the Army and Navy," I would not have a problem with that.

Howell - how was it you were able to look up the background of the Air Force 2L interns?

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Rotor
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Re: Military Law

Postby Rotor » Sun Jul 15, 2012 12:55 am

JCFindley wrote:
Rotor wrote:
SchopenhauerFTW wrote:
howell wrote:After the bar is over, I'll take a look at consolidating and condensing the info that has been presented on this thread. I'm not sure what format would be best, but it is a great source of info. I've been through this thread multiple times, and I seem to pick up something new every time. Something like a wiki would probably be appropriate - something that allows for continuous updating.
Join forces with JCFindley, since he started this thread: viewtopic.php?f=1&t=187630

I'm not saying don't work with JCF, but I actually see the need for two threads--one for law students who are interested in becoming JAGs and another for military members who are interested in becoming law students. There certainly is some overlap--and it is likely that this thread contains a lot of both. JCF's thread is less about JAG and more about vets becoming students. There is another GI Bill thread out there that has some info, but much is likely out of date with the changes in the program last year.


I agree, and you are welcome to add it on mine but separate is probably better since they are vastly different subjects. I comment on this one on general military stuff but know NOTHING JAG specific.
I'm in the same boat--only I have quite a few JAG friends and can talk a bit about what it is like in service but not how to get selected. And it'll be a while before I can really do anything. Bar in a week and a half, then trip/move/start work. But I will try to chime in when I can.

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howell
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Re: Military Law

Postby howell » Sun Jul 15, 2012 6:14 am

Patrick Bateman wrote:Howell - how was it you were able to look up the background of the Air Force 2L interns?


They sent several emails to the entire group without using the BCC feature, so I could see the email address of every 2L intern. Most people had email addresses like john.smith@lawschool.edu, so most people were easy to track down online. Also, LinkedIn provided a lot of information. I couldn't find everyone, but maybe 20 out of 25.

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Patrick Bateman
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Re: Military Law

Postby Patrick Bateman » Tue Jul 17, 2012 12:05 am

*
Last edited by Patrick Bateman on Thu Jul 19, 2012 4:10 pm, edited 1 time in total.




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