Military Law Forum

[shock259]

Thanks so much, PB. Very informative.

Our accounts seem quite similar. I will follow up on some of the information I recieved to try and verify it. One discrepancy between our accouts is the fail rate for the first review/continuation board. 5-10% vs. 20-30%. Have a hard time believing that the Navy forces out so many more people than the Air Force. Perhaps the info I got was a little skewed. I'll get some more opinions and post back in a bit.

[brownshoe]

Thanks so much, PB. Very informative.

Our accounts seem quite similar. I will follow up on some of the information I recieved to try and verify it. One discrepancy between our accouts is the fail rate for the first review/continuation board. 5-10% vs. 20-30%. Have a hard time believing that the Navy forces out so many more people than the Air Force. Perhaps the info I got was a little skewed. I'll get some more opinions and post back in a bit.

What you heard is pretty close to accurate for the Navy. The board is the "Career Status Board," and it is held twice a year. You apply for it after you've been a JAG for 3 years. If you are not selected at the first board, you get one more look at the next board. If you're not selected, you will probably be forced out (so, then you are at the 4 year point). If I remember correctly, three boards ago and two boards ago the selection rate was 70%. The board that was just held was 85%. So those numbers were generally correct. Obviously, as the economy (hopefully) improves, fewer people will apply for CSB and the rates will go up.

Regarding promotion to O-4 - one big difference from PB's post on the AF is that the Navy's selection rate to O-4 has also been much lower. I think the last few boards it's been in the 70s. Same deal though - if you fail to select twice, you will be forced out. As you can see, it's been tough in the Navy the last few years.

[xerxes]

So question, do we have anyone here who has gone through ODS/NJS with the Navy? have some questions I wanted to PM.

[Fed_Atty]

So question, do we have anyone here who has gone through ODS/NJS with the Navy? have some questions I wanted to PM.

I went through OCS and then NJS. While I did not go through ODS, I have spoken with many of my colleagues who have gone through it.

[IHeartPhilly]

This thread is a great read, and I'm currently working my way through it.

Im an 0L about to start school this Fall and am aiming for Navy/Army JAG. Quick question, and I hope it hasn't been glossed over yet (apologies if it has). Would a second language profiency (i/e: pashtun/arabic) be a marketable skill when applying for JAG? Or would this skill be irrelevant/no help?

[Esquire]

This thread is a great read, and I'm currently working my way through it.

Im an 0L about to start school this Fall and am aiming for Navy/Army JAG. Quick question, and I hope it hasn't been glossed over yet (apologies if it has). Would a second language profiency (i/e: pashtun/arabic) be a marketable skill when applying for JAG? Or would this skill be irrelevant/no help?

Probably but here's the best answer: it couldn't hurt.

[SemperLegal]

(unless you join the Marines, in which case it actually is) ... (again, unless you join the Marines). ... (again, unless you join the Marines).

Just FYI, having done Marine Recruit Training, let me tell you that given enough time to prepare (60 days), a little heart, and no serious medical problems, anyone can pass Marine entry requirements. Drill Instructors are very good at turning civilians into Marines. They have been doing it for 237 years.

That being said, Marine SJAs (and I assume all other USMC JAGs) are expected to maintain a higher level of fitness than our less expeditious counselors due to a cultural difference (alluded to in the staff/line officer posts). However, its almost impossible not to do so (You get 1-2 hours off in the mornings to physically train, gym access, and some pretty knowledgeable workout partners/trainers).

Keep this a secret though; our PR machine spends a lot of time making us look like warriors right out of the womb.

[Dasho]

Great thread! I have spent some time reading it all. Thanks to all those who contribute. I just finished my 1L year and have been committed to Marine JAG for some time. I am recently married and am trying to get more info about training and deployment so I am give my family a heads up to what to expect. I have been visiting the MarineOCS website and found out there is a family day in week 9 of OCS where the candidates can see their family.
Is that the only day during the 10 weeks or are there others?

Also, what is the 6 month BI training like? Do married officers live with their wives? If not how often are visits allowed?

Finally, how long are Marine JAG deployments? I have heard multiple answers of the different threads I have visited (6 months to 12 months).

Again thank you for any answers given.

[SchopenhauerFTW]

.

[Rirruto]

Does anyone have any insight into whether any of the branches will allow you to defer for a year to do a state or federal clerkship? The Marines will allow you to request a deferral, but I can't find anything about any of the other programs either in this thread or elsewhere.

The Navy application for the fall board is up for anyone wanting to get a jump on filling it out.

Link to Marines allowing you to do clerkship or LLM for posterity. Under "Examination Requirements."
http://media.marines.com/uploads/docume ... athway.pdf

[ZeroDay]

Does anyone have any insight into whether any of the branches will allow you to defer for a year to do a state or federal clerkship?

Army JAGC may consider requests for a deferral of up to one year. I don't know if they consider requests every cycle, but I know they sometimes do. Also, I think they consider a clerkship a good reason to defer an applicant's start date. Keep in mind that you don't get accepted and then start the next day -- it will take at least several months but likely a year or longer for you to start with the Army, even without a deferral. My understanding is that they have three sets of training classes every year. One starts in February, another in July, and the last in October. And you have to pass a state bar and get a medical clearance before they can schedule you for a class. So, if you were to graduate from law school in May, then you'd go off to training the following year in either February, July, or October -- assuming you pass the bar and are cleared by the Medical Review Board.

[clwilson6]

Are there no paralegals in the Marines? I know people who have been paralegals in the Army, but the only similar position in the USMC seems to be that of a legal services specialist.

The answer to that question is that they are both the same, just a different title. The work is pretty similar except I believe that the Marine legal specialist rotate throughout the different law offices pretty quickly. Paralegals in other services may stay within a particular legal specialty longer than most Marine paralegals. I may be off the mark but I spent 20 years as a legal specialist and interacted with my other service counterparts on many occasions.

[clwilson6]

Finally, how long are Marine JAG deployments? I have heard multiple answers of the different threads I have visited (6 months to 12 months).

I've worked in JAG offices for 20 years and from my experience the answer is, it all depends. Generally, many JAG offices don't deploy in their entirety. Certain personnel in individual offices are assigned to deploying units and their deployment is based off of the deployment cycle of the unit their assigned to. Most deployments range between 9-12 months depending. However, most units aren't really active in theater for the full 9-12 months because of change overs near the end of the deployment cycle thereby sometimes only deploying for 6-9 months. I've seen JAG personnel that have been deployed up to 15 months but that is usually because some personnel wish to remain in theater (collect some extra cash, glory and experience) and get attached to other units in theater or other incoming units.

[msanders44]

Can someone explain the JAG process to me? I'm confused because I thought for undergrad you were a part of ROTC and then if you joined and were accepted while in law school you were JAG but it sounds like you don't join JAG until after you graduate law school. Can someone explain this please? And also what type of stats does someone usually have to have to get into JAG? Do they base it on GPA and LSAT, along with the obvious physical fitness, etc. or is it rank in law school, etc.?

[target]

Can someone explain the JAG process to me? I'm confused because I thought for undergrad you were a part of ROTC and then if you joined and were accepted while in law school you were JAG but it sounds like you don't join JAG until after you graduate law school. Can someone explain this please? And also what type of stats does someone usually have to have to get into JAG? Do they base it on GPA and LSAT, along with the obvious physical fitness, etc. or is it rank in law school, etc.?

you should start at page 1 and read on. All your questions have been thoroughly answered in previous pages. But to be responsive, you can join JAG while you are in law school, but you don't start serving until you graduate. For your second question, there is not good data on what it takes to get accepted. JAG looks at each component of your application.

[Patrick Bateman]

Can someone explain the JAG process to me? I'm confused because I thought for undergrad you were a part of ROTC and then if you joined and were accepted while in law school you were JAG but it sounds like you don't join JAG until after you graduate law school. Can someone explain this please? And also what type of stats does someone usually have to have to get into JAG? Do they base it on GPA and LSAT, along with the obvious physical fitness, etc. or is it rank in law school, etc.?

you should start at page 1 and read on. All your questions have been thoroughly answered in previous pages. But to be responsive, you can join JAG while you are in law school, but you don't start serving until you graduate. For your second question, there is not good data on what it takes to get accepted. JAG looks at each component of your application.

You let him off easy. I was going to go with:

Hey, you just posted here
And this is crazy
But you need to read the whole thread
And repost here, maybe?

--ImageRemoved--

[shock259]

So, so good.

[msanders44]

well considering there are 126 pages I don't have the time to read all of that I thought asking would be easier since the first couple pages didn't answer my questions

[spleenworship]

well considering there are 126 pages I don't have the time to read all of that I thought asking would be easier since the first couple pages didn't answer my questions

First 10 pages answered 90% of my questions, and 100% of the ones I didn't know I had. Mastering "skimming for important info" is a skill that will serve you well as an attorney.

[target]

well considering there are 126 pages I don't have the time to read all of that I thought asking would be easier since the first couple pages didn't answer my questions

Dude, you are not even trying (to make up good excuses). Almost all Patrick's posts in the first two pages direct at what you asked.

[msanders44]

well considering people have said different things as to what it looked at the most when applying I wanted to know others opinions. And it really didn't explain what you are in law school, whether you are JAG or something else because I thought ROTC was for undergrad

[shock259]

Most of the info is also available on the websites of the respective services if you don't want to read through this thread.

Best of luck to you.

[msanders44]

Thank you for being kind. I've looked at them and still have some questions but a recruiter is supposed to be contacting me within a couple days I was just wanting to see what people had to say on here.

Most of the info is also available on the websites of the respective services if you don't want to read through this thread.

Best of luck to you.

[Patrick Bateman]

well considering people have said different things as to what it looked at the most when applying I wanted to know others opinions. And it really didn't explain what you are in law school, whether you are JAG or something else because I thought ROTC was for undergrad

I cannot say about the other services but at least with the Air Force, there are no traditional recruiters. As noted throughout this thread, JAX is the Gatekeeper/Keymaster (depending on your Ghostbusters preferance) for JA recruiting. Air Force JAG accessions are not run through the Air Force Personnel Center and the traditional recruiters have absolutely zero idea how we operate. Based on my memory of applying as an intern with the Army, their system of Field Screening Officers (FSO) is similarly unique.

I'm not going to quibble in regard to the information you are seeking being on this board or not. That said, in that some of us have been posting here for four years, there are not many of the "tell me about JAG" questions that have not been covered in detail from multiple services.

And as Shock correctly noted, all the services have their own JAG specific recruiting sites. For example:



You'll see just about every possible applicant category on there. Your ROTC confusion should be cleared up with a few minutes exploring this site.

The regulars on this thread have put in a ton of time and knowledge into this board. There is a general expectation that folks will do their homework first - a good lesson for anyone aspiring to earn their officer's commission. So pardon the snark. That said, I will not apologize for referencing possibly the greatest pop song of the 21st century.

[msanders44]

Okay thank you. I had not looked at the Air Force's site yet, but I've looked at Navy and Marine.