Military Law

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txlaw
Posts: 8
Joined: Tue Nov 16, 2010 1:47 pm

Re: Military Law

Postby txlaw » Tue Feb 07, 2012 3:41 am

has anyone heard back from the AF about summer internships yet? or know when we might get a decision? I know the posting hasn't closed yet, but I thought maybe they would have already made their decisions about the January 27th group. (...basically I'm just trying to figure out if not hearing anything means I've been rejected)

holajerin
Posts: 19
Joined: Tue Feb 07, 2012 12:06 pm

Re: Military Law

Postby holajerin » Tue Feb 07, 2012 12:13 pm

txlaw wrote:has anyone heard back from the AF about summer internships yet? or know when we might get a decision? I know the posting hasn't closed yet, but I thought maybe they would have already made their decisions about the January 27th group. (...basically I'm just trying to figure out if not hearing anything means I've been rejected)


Hey txlaw, I spoke with an AF JAGC representative at a career fair recently, and it sounds like they won't be making any decisions until some time in March. So, we've all got a long wait ahead.

Also, for anyone who applied for a Navy internship, it sounds like decisions should be out by the end of Feb.

shock259
Posts: 1737
Joined: Tue Jan 19, 2010 2:30 am

Re: Military Law

Postby shock259 » Tue Feb 07, 2012 12:34 pm

That timeframe sounds right based on what it has been in years past. I'm hoping to hear from AF internship, AF GLP, and Navy internship by mid-March at the latest.

I still don't quite understand the AF internship application regarding the different dates. I hope I haven't screwed myself by not applying yet. I wrote down the deadline as Feb 10th, not Jan 27th. The language from the post reads:

"THIS IS AN OPEN CONTINUOUS ANNOUNCEMENT WHICH EXPIRES ON THE CLOSING DATE - FIRST CUTOFF DATE FOR APPLICANT EMPLOYMENT CONSIDERATION WILL OCCUR ON 27 JAN 12; ALL OTHER APPLICATIONS RECEIVED AFTER THE FIRST CUTOFF WILL BE CONSIDERED/REVIEWED ON THE CLOSING DATE OF THIS ANNOUNCEMENT. "

Meh. Guess there is nothing I can do about it now.

txlaw
Posts: 8
Joined: Tue Nov 16, 2010 1:47 pm

Re: Military Law

Postby txlaw » Tue Feb 07, 2012 1:10 pm

thanks guys! guess I'll have to try to be patient then. good luck to both of you!

Bowl
Posts: 3
Joined: Wed Sep 01, 2010 8:33 am

Re: Military Law

Postby Bowl » Tue Feb 07, 2012 4:18 pm

shock259 wrote:That timeframe sounds right based on what it has been in years past. I'm hoping to hear from AF internship, AF GLP, and Navy internship by mid-March at the latest.

I still don't quite understand the AF internship application regarding the different dates. I hope I haven't screwed myself by not applying yet. I wrote down the deadline as Feb 10th, not Jan 27th. The language from the post reads:

"THIS IS AN OPEN CONTINUOUS ANNOUNCEMENT WHICH EXPIRES ON THE CLOSING DATE - FIRST CUTOFF DATE FOR APPLICANT EMPLOYMENT CONSIDERATION WILL OCCUR ON 27 JAN 12; ALL OTHER APPLICATIONS RECEIVED AFTER THE FIRST CUTOFF WILL BE CONSIDERED/REVIEWED ON THE CLOSING DATE OF THIS ANNOUNCEMENT. "

Meh. Guess there is nothing I can do about it now.


The 1L and 2L AF internships close on Feb 10th. All applications will be considered that were submitted by that date so I wouldn't worry. If you apply by the 10th you'll be in the running.

shock259
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Joined: Tue Jan 19, 2010 2:30 am

Re: Military Law

Postby shock259 » Thu Feb 09, 2012 8:45 pm

Really hope they don't use USAJOBS for the AF summer internships in the future. That was definitely one of the most confusing and convoluted application experiences I have ever endured. Ugh.

TB12
Posts: 29
Joined: Fri Jan 20, 2012 10:55 pm

Re: Military Law

Postby TB12 » Thu Feb 09, 2012 10:17 pm

shock259 wrote:Really hope they don't use USAJOBS for the AF summer internships in the future. That was definitely one of the most confusing and convoluted application experiences I have ever endured. Ugh.


Agreed. I gave up on applying because I couldn't figure it out.

shock259
Posts: 1737
Joined: Tue Jan 19, 2010 2:30 am

Re: Military Law

Postby shock259 » Thu Feb 09, 2012 10:30 pm

My app is still saying incomplete and missing documents because my documents are pending a virus scan check.

Word of warning to those that haven't applied: do it quickly. It may take longer than you think.

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bouakedojo
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Re: Military Law

Postby bouakedojo » Thu Feb 16, 2012 11:47 am

As per this thread, I am trying to see about an unofficial summer with the local JAG base here in St. Louis.

Any tips on how to approach the office for doing an unofficial internship with them?

I called my local base and left a message for a Captain but haven't heard back yet and I'm confident they're super busy there. I was going to write an email and was hoping for any advice? Anything I should be emphasizing?

I have applied for the official AF internship, but I'd much rather stay local if I can.

Texan09
Posts: 74
Joined: Tue Mar 09, 2010 5:06 pm

Re: Military Law

Postby Texan09 » Thu Feb 16, 2012 3:18 pm

bouakedojo wrote:As per this thread, I am trying to see about an unofficial summer with the local JAG base here in St. Louis.

Any tips on how to approach the office for doing an unofficial internship with them?

I called my local base and left a message for a Captain but haven't heard back yet and I'm confident they're super busy there. I was going to write an email and was hoping for any advice? Anything I should be emphasizing?

I have applied for the official AF internship, but I'd much rather stay local if I can.


I had trouble getting in contact with the base legal office at my local base as well. I found out that there is a different office on base for the Area Defense Council (which makes lots of since). I contacted that office and had an immediate response. Maybe you could try the same if you don't mind spending a summer doing criminal defense.

wannabejag
Posts: 74
Joined: Sat Oct 15, 2011 10:48 pm

Re: Military Law

Postby wannabejag » Thu Feb 16, 2012 4:23 pm

Texan09 wrote:
bouakedojo wrote:As per this thread, I am trying to see about an unofficial summer with the local JAG base here in St. Louis.

Any tips on how to approach the office for doing an unofficial internship with them?

I called my local base and left a message for a Captain but haven't heard back yet and I'm confident they're super busy there. I was going to write an email and was hoping for any advice? Anything I should be emphasizing?

I have applied for the official AF internship, but I'd much rather stay local if I can.


I had trouble getting in contact with the base legal office at my local base as well. I found out that there is a different office on base for the Area Defense Council (which makes lots of since). I contacted that office and had an immediate response. Maybe you could try the same if you don't mind spending a summer doing criminal defense.


If you guys are calling around trying to land a gig like this you have to ask/speak to the right people. You need to speak with the Chief Paralegal, Legal Administrator, or the Staff Judge Advocate. Random Captain Joe Billy Bob attorneys most likely are not going to follow up with you because they are A. busy and B. don't have the authority to say "yes, come on in". Talking to the Chief Paralegal would be in your best interest...this person is going to know if the office needs help and could be your voice to the SJA to bring you in. Just food for thought.

Texan09
Posts: 74
Joined: Tue Mar 09, 2010 5:06 pm

Re: Military Law

Postby Texan09 » Thu Feb 16, 2012 5:10 pm

wannabejag wrote:
Texan09 wrote:
bouakedojo wrote:As per this thread, I am trying to see about an unofficial summer with the local JAG base here in St. Louis.

Any tips on how to approach the office for doing an unofficial internship with them?

I called my local base and left a message for a Captain but haven't heard back yet and I'm confident they're super busy there. I was going to write an email and was hoping for any advice? Anything I should be emphasizing?

I have applied for the official AF internship, but I'd much rather stay local if I can.


I had trouble getting in contact with the base legal office at my local base as well. I found out that there is a different office on base for the Area Defense Council (which makes lots of since). I contacted that office and had an immediate response. Maybe you could try the same if you don't mind spending a summer doing criminal defense.


If you guys are calling around trying to land a gig like this you have to ask/speak to the right people. You need to speak with the Chief Paralegal, Legal Administrator, or the Staff Judge Advocate. Random Captain Joe Billy Bob attorneys most likely are not going to follow up with you because they are A. busy and B. don't have the authority to say "yes, come on in". Talking to the Chief Paralegal would be in your best interest...this person is going to know if the office needs help and could be your voice to the SJA to bring you in. Just food for thought.



Not saying this advice isn't vaild, but I got my internship by speaking with a "random" Capt and paralegal. This is because the Area Defense Council has his own office and paralegal and doesn't have to jump through the same hoops. My experience went like this:

1) Called ADC's office and told them I was interested in an internship. They scheduled the interview while I was on the phone.
2) I came in for the interview and was told I had the job at the end of it. We picked a start date.
3) I came in for work and had a computer login and access to FLITE.

My experience is just one, but my recommendation is to try multiple avenues of approach.

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bouakedojo
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Re: Military Law

Postby bouakedojo » Thu Feb 16, 2012 8:53 pm

Thanks for the advice! I appreciate it.

shock259
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Joined: Tue Jan 19, 2010 2:30 am

Re: Military Law

Postby shock259 » Thu Feb 16, 2012 10:42 pm

Seconded. Expecting to be soliciting the office I interviewed with for GLP. Hoping the SJA will take my call/remember me from the GLP interview.

TBJAG
Posts: 12
Joined: Fri Mar 12, 2010 10:44 pm

Re: Military Law

Postby TBJAG » Fri Feb 17, 2012 1:17 am

wannabejag wrote:If you guys are calling around trying to land a gig like this you have to ask/speak to the right people. You need to speak with the Chief Paralegal, Legal Administrator, or the Staff Judge Advocate. Random Captain Joe Billy Bob attorneys most likely are not going to follow up with you because they are A. busy and B. don't have the authority to say "yes, come on in". Talking to the Chief Paralegal would be in your best interest...this person is going to know if the office needs help and could be your voice to the SJA to bring you in. Just food for thought.


A base legal office may not have a LOS and may not have anyone with the title, "Chief Paralegal." I know my office doesn't. We are tragically undermanned in the paralegal department and the paralegals have even less time to talk to you than I do. In addition, if you try to contact an SJA directly it may be a while before you get an answer. Most of them are exceptionally busy people. My point is, YMMV. You may not have much luck contacting a captain, so try a different captain or a paralegal. Just keep going to different people, including the SJA, until you find someone who is responsive. Different offices are going to have different key people.

//signed//
Capt Joe Billy Bob

Sidenote: That captain should have returned the call by now. Unless, you are TDY or deployed you are not too busy to return a phone call.

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Patrick Bateman
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Re: Military Law

Postby Patrick Bateman » Fri Feb 17, 2012 1:34 pm

TBJAG wrote:
wannabejag wrote:If you guys are calling around trying to land a gig like this you have to ask/speak to the right people. You need to speak with the Chief Paralegal, Legal Administrator, or the Staff Judge Advocate. Random Captain Joe Billy Bob attorneys most likely are not going to follow up with you because they are A. busy and B. don't have the authority to say "yes, come on in". Talking to the Chief Paralegal would be in your best interest...this person is going to know if the office needs help and could be your voice to the SJA to bring you in. Just food for thought.


A base legal office may not have a LOS and may not have anyone with the title, "Chief Paralegal." I know my office doesn't. We are tragically undermanned in the paralegal department and the paralegals have even less time to talk to you than I do. In addition, if you try to contact an SJA directly it may be a while before you get an answer. Most of them are exceptionally busy people. My point is, YMMV. You may not have much luck contacting a captain, so try a different captain or a paralegal. Just keep going to different people, including the SJA, until you find someone who is responsive. Different offices are going to have different key people.

//signed//
Capt Joe Billy Bob

Sidenote: That captain should have returned the call by now. Unless, you are TDY or deployed you are not too busy to return a phone call.


Could not have said it better myself.
I think the Chief Paralegal title is an Army thing. From the context of the post, it sounds like the OP is looking at an Air Force legal office. The LOS, or Law Office Superintendant, is the most senior paralegal in any given AFB legal office. There will also be NCOICs of both the Civil Law (sometimes called General Law) division and Military Justice division that are at the next tier of seniority on the enlisted side.
I agree 100% with TBJAG’s sidenote. Busy or not, the OIC of Recruiting is an official extra duty assignment by the SJA and that Captain has a duty to be doing that job. If the office is so busy that the Captain legitimately cannot return calls, I have a feeling the SJA, DSJA, LOS, and other leadership will also be slammed.

As an educational point – the Office of the Area Defense Counsel (ADC) is indeed a separate entity from the base legal office. The SJA works directly for the Wing Commander and falls under that chain of command. ADC is merely a tenant unit on the base with no administrative or command connection to the Wing – ADCs fall under the Air Force Legal Operations Agency (AFLOA) which is commanded by a 1-Star in DC. This guarantees that there is no command influence or other issues in terms of the ADC advocating for his/her clients.

Bouakedojo – to answer your question directly, there is absolutely no harm in writing a follow up email to the Captain you were dealing with. I’ve handled recruiting at two very busy base legal offices and always appreciated when applicants would follow up – like every base legal JAG, I’m constantly being pulled in 17 different directions and in that I do not have a Will Hunting level memory, a quick reminder can be a huge help. If you have not actually made positive contact with someone at the office, I’ll second the advice to try someone else. The Deputy SJA is a solid compromise between the Captain types and the SJA.

wannabejag
Posts: 74
Joined: Sat Oct 15, 2011 10:48 pm

Re: Military Law

Postby wannabejag » Fri Feb 17, 2012 6:15 pm

Texan09 wrote:
wannabejag wrote:
Texan09 wrote:
bouakedojo wrote:As per this thread, I am trying to see about an unofficial summer with the local JAG base here in St. Louis.

Any tips on how to approach the office for doing an unofficial internship with them?

I called my local base and left a message for a Captain but haven't heard back yet and I'm confident they're super busy there. I was going to write an email and was hoping for any advice? Anything I should be emphasizing?

I have applied for the official AF internship, but I'd much rather stay local if I can.


I had trouble getting in contact with the base legal office at my local base as well. I found out that there is a different office on base for the Area Defense Council (which makes lots of since). I contacted that office and had an immediate response. Maybe you could try the same if you don't mind spending a summer doing criminal defense.


If you guys are calling around trying to land a gig like this you have to ask/speak to the right people. You need to speak with the Chief Paralegal, Legal Administrator, or the Staff Judge Advocate. Random Captain Joe Billy Bob attorneys most likely are not going to follow up with you because they are A. busy and B. don't have the authority to say "yes, come on in". Talking to the Chief Paralegal would be in your best interest...this person is going to know if the office needs help and could be your voice to the SJA to bring you in. Just food for thought.



Not saying this advice isn't vaild, but I got my internship by speaking with a "random" Capt and paralegal. This is because the Area Defense Council has his own office and paralegal and doesn't have to jump through the same hoops. My experience went like this:

1) Called ADC's office and told them I was interested in an internship. They scheduled the interview while I was on the phone.
2) I came in for the interview and was told I had the job at the end of it. We picked a start date.
3) I came in for work and had a computer login and access to FLITE.

My experience is just one, but my recommendation is to try multiple avenues of approach.


Trial Defense is a different animal as you are right, they are a seperate entitiy. In the Army they actually are not even assigned paralegals. There are no enlisted personell in Trial Defense in the Army, they are all on loan from another unit.

wannabejag
Posts: 74
Joined: Sat Oct 15, 2011 10:48 pm

Re: Military Law

Postby wannabejag » Fri Feb 17, 2012 6:17 pm

Patrick Bateman wrote:
TBJAG wrote:
wannabejag wrote:If you guys are calling around trying to land a gig like this you have to ask/speak to the right people. You need to speak with the Chief Paralegal, Legal Administrator, or the Staff Judge Advocate. Random Captain Joe Billy Bob attorneys most likely are not going to follow up with you because they are A. busy and B. don't have the authority to say "yes, come on in". Talking to the Chief Paralegal would be in your best interest...this person is going to know if the office needs help and could be your voice to the SJA to bring you in. Just food for thought.


A base legal office may not have a LOS and may not have anyone with the title, "Chief Paralegal." I know my office doesn't. We are tragically undermanned in the paralegal department and the paralegals have even less time to talk to you than I do. In addition, if you try to contact an SJA directly it may be a while before you get an answer. Most of them are exceptionally busy people. My point is, YMMV. You may not have much luck contacting a captain, so try a different captain or a paralegal. Just keep going to different people, including the SJA, until you find someone who is responsive. Different offices are going to have different key people.

//signed//
Capt Joe Billy Bob

Sidenote: That captain should have returned the call by now. Unless, you are TDY or deployed you are not too busy to return a phone call.


Could not have said it better myself.
I think the Chief Paralegal title is an Army thing. From the context of the post, it sounds like the OP is looking at an Air Force legal office. The LOS, or Law Office Superintendant, is the most senior paralegal in any given AFB legal office. There will also be NCOICs of both the Civil Law (sometimes called General Law) division and Military Justice division that are at the next tier of seniority on the enlisted side.
I agree 100% with TBJAG’s sidenote. Busy or not, the OIC of Recruiting is an official extra duty assignment by the SJA and that Captain has a duty to be doing that job. If the office is so busy that the Captain legitimately cannot return calls, I have a feeling the SJA, DSJA, LOS, and other leadership will also be slammed.

As an educational point – the Office of the Area Defense Counsel (ADC) is indeed a separate entity from the base legal office. The SJA works directly for the Wing Commander and falls under that chain of command. ADC is merely a tenant unit on the base with no administrative or command connection to the Wing – ADCs fall under the Air Force Legal Operations Agency (AFLOA) which is commanded by a 1-Star in DC. This guarantees that there is no command influence or other issues in terms of the ADC advocating for his/her clients.

Bouakedojo – to answer your question directly, there is absolutely no harm in writing a follow up email to the Captain you were dealing with. I’ve handled recruiting at two very busy base legal offices and always appreciated when applicants would follow up – like every base legal JAG, I’m constantly being pulled in 17 different directions and in that I do not have a Will Hunting level memory, a quick reminder can be a huge help. If you have not actually made positive contact with someone at the office, I’ll second the advice to try someone else. The Deputy SJA is a solid compromise between the Captain types and the SJA.


I have a bad habit in this forum of always assuming Army because that is what I know. Point taken, but still, talk to the right individuals.

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bouakedojo
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Re: Military Law

Postby bouakedojo » Sun Feb 19, 2012 5:39 pm

Thanks for the advice again from the posters above.

I have sent an email to the department that goes to two Captains there.

I will report back when I hear something.

Tangential question: I've heard from several JAGs that Navy is the most prestigious of the branches. Is that true? I don't remember reading that before ITT and thought it was interesting.

I personally believe I could be happy with any of the branches, but I would probably prefer the AF, and I always thought they were the most highly regarded.

brownshoe
Posts: 74
Joined: Thu Mar 26, 2009 8:46 am

Re: Military Law

Postby brownshoe » Sun Feb 19, 2012 11:02 pm

bouakedojo wrote:Thanks for the advice again from the posters above.

I have sent an email to the department that goes to two Captains there.

I will report back when I hear something.

Tangential question: I've heard from several JAGs that Navy is the most prestigious of the branches. Is that true? I don't remember reading that before ITT and thought it was interesting.

I personally believe I could be happy with any of the branches, but I would probably prefer the AF, and I always thought they were the most highly regarded.

Regarding prestige - lol - I'm in the Navy and don't think that at all, nor have I ever heard that. The ONLY thing I would say is some civilians are more aware of the Navy JAGC from things like A Few Good Men and the TV show JAG. Otherwise, I think there is no difference.

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2LT_CPG
Posts: 272
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Re: Military Law

Postby 2LT_CPG » Mon Feb 20, 2012 1:16 am

bouakedojo wrote:Thanks for the advice again from the posters above.

I have sent an email to the department that goes to two Captains there.

I will report back when I hear something.

Tangential question: I've heard from several JAGs that Navy is the most prestigious of the branches. Is that true? I don't remember reading that before ITT and thought it was interesting.

I personally believe I could be happy with any of the branches, but I would probably prefer the AF, and I always thought they were the most highly regarded.

In re the prestige question, I don't know who told you that, but take it with a grain of salt. Anytime I hear interservice rivalry stuff come up, my immediate reaction is to quell it if it's mean spirited. Every service branch does a different job. Every service branch has an elite, be they special ops guys, signal pros, top guns, whatever. In the end, everyone does a different job and it can be tough to compare, and prestige is difficult to quantify. If I had a quarter every time I heard the stupid 'Marine Infantry versus Army Ranger' argument...

But is a Navy JAG more 'prestigious' than an Army JAG of an Air Force JAG? No idea, but I suspect it's all pretty similar, just different locales, traditions, etc. My initial gut reaction is to warn you against choosing a service branch based on your concept of which is most prestigious. Choose based on what you want to do and who offers you the best deal to do it. That's why I switched from Navy ROTC to Army ROTC, and now I'm a happy Army officer because of it.

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bouakedojo
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Re: Military Law

Postby bouakedojo » Mon Feb 20, 2012 1:22 pm

Thanks for the responses. I was thinking it was more of a subjective thing, but the way the Army JAG was talking made me question whether it was true or not.

I'm definitely applying to all branches, though. Especially given the competitiveness, I would be thrilled being in any branch.

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2LT_CPG
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Re: Military Law

Postby 2LT_CPG » Mon Feb 20, 2012 1:30 pm

bouakedojo wrote:Thanks for the responses. I was thinking it was more of a subjective thing, but the way the Army JAG was talking made me question whether it was true or not.

I'm definitely applying to all branches, though. Especially given the competitiveness, I would be thrilled being in any branch.

Just anecdotally, I asked a gold bar in my battalion who was a JAG in the Army Reserve what the functional difference between Navy/USMC, USAF, and Army JAGs was. His answer was something like, "In the Navy, you'll work on DUI cases in San Diego and Virginia. In the Army, you'll do DUI cases in Georgia, Oklahoma, and Texas..."

Thomas.of.Hunter
Posts: 27
Joined: Mon Mar 15, 2010 2:13 am

Re: Military Law

Postby Thomas.of.Hunter » Tue Feb 21, 2012 9:47 am

Got an email from Air Force JAG concerning the internship.

It says in part:


N O T I C E O F R E S U L T S

. . .

This notification serves to provide you with the provisional status of your application for the position/occupation shown below. This
initial rating is based solely on your responses to the assessment questionnaire, and is subject to verification. Your eligibility,
qualifications, and veterans preference claims will be reviewed by a human resources consultant and you will receive a separate notice
of referral or non-referral to the selecting official, as appropriate . . .

Anyone else get this?

billaboy12
Posts: 36
Joined: Thu Feb 04, 2010 1:23 pm

Re: Military Law

Postby billaboy12 » Tue Feb 21, 2012 10:53 am

Yes, I also got that email. It was followed by another email that should state your status as either referred or non-referred. Does anyone who interned previously know what level of achievement getting referred is? Does that give you a good chance of receiving an offer, or is it simply a screening formality?




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