Military Law

(On Campus Interviews, Summer Associate positions, Firm Reviews, Tips, ...)
Forum rules
Anonymous Posting

Anonymous posting is only appropriate when you are revealing sensitive employment related information about a firm, job, etc. You may anonymously respond on topic to these threads. Unacceptable uses include: harassing another user, joking around, testing the feature, or other things that are more appropriate in the lounge.

Failure to follow these rules will get you outed, warned, or banned.
Groundie
Posts: 69
Joined: Tue Mar 02, 2010 1:13 am

Re: Military Law

Postby Groundie » Fri Jan 06, 2012 8:30 pm

Regardless of the oath taken, this will surely be one of the brightest and best classes of Army JAs yet. Congratulations again.

I'll repeat my question since it got buried: For those of us non-selects who are graduating this year and taking the bar, what thoughts do you have on ways we could improve our application for November? It seems difficult, with only August, September, and October being open. I guess we should look for more volunteer legal experience if we don't have a job awaiting us at graduation.

wannabejag
Posts: 74
Joined: Sat Oct 15, 2011 10:48 pm

Re: Military Law

Postby wannabejag » Sat Jan 07, 2012 12:48 am

Groundie wrote:Regardless of the oath taken, this will surely be one of the brightest and best classes of Army JAs yet. Congratulations again.

I'll repeat my question since it got buried: For those of us non-selects who are graduating this year and taking the bar, what thoughts do you have on ways we could improve our application for November? It seems difficult, with only August, September, and October being open. I guess we should look for more volunteer legal experience if we don't have a job awaiting us at graduation.


If Active Component fails there is JAG in the Reserves and the Guard. And remember, you can be Full Time in the Reserves/Guard.

TBJAG
Posts: 12
Joined: Fri Mar 12, 2010 10:44 pm

Re: Military Law

Postby TBJAG » Sun Jan 08, 2012 4:25 am

wannabejag wrote:But Air Force JAGs are NOT Line Officers.

I guess someone should tell the AF JAGC that I'm not a line officer: http://www.afjag.af.mil/shared/media/do ... 02-052.pdf. I'd recommend a control + F search. AF JAGs are line officers. Coast Guard/Marine JAGs are unrestricted line officers.

For the record, there is one AF JAG command. It is a one-star billet at AFLOA - although Mike Murphy was an O-6 when he was there (but we don't talk about him). It is possible to take on a command position as an AF JAG. In fact, the AFGSC SJA was both wing CV and SJA at his last duty station. But, that is exceedingly rare and probably only happened because he was an intel officer who later became a JAG. If you are a JAG, count on being a staff officer for the duration of your career regardless of which branch you are in.

And finally, I was a part-time night student at a tier 2 school and never did moot court, journal, or anything else that supposedly makes your law school resume look awesome. Although, I do have extra Latin on my diploma. Where you went to school and how well you did are only part of what gets a person chosen to be a JAG. But, I was selected in 2009 on a board where the selection rate was 7%. The AF was practically giving slots away back then, so what do I know? :roll:

DL2012
Posts: 1
Joined: Sun Jan 08, 2012 7:23 pm

Re: Military Law

Postby DL2012 » Sun Jan 08, 2012 7:32 pm

bjack347 wrote:
babyt8_99 wrote:
Groundie wrote:
babyt8_99 wrote: But I do know what schools the Army chose this year. That guy wasn't Army. He was navy

How do you know? Which schools? I guess for those of us who haven't heard by now, we're toast.


My FSO was reading some of them off (mind you not all the schools but when there are 2 Harvard, a Cornell and a University of Michigan right off the bat...my school-a T1 but MUCH lower than those). My FSO said that they had a choice of whether to call or not and he wanted to call and let me know since I was his #1



I'm not Navy. I'm an AD Army JAG select from a so-so tier III school. There's still hope, especially if you consider the FSOs admission that FSOs could choose whether or not to call their selects.


My FSO e-mailed me on Thursday informing me that I'd been selected. However, I know several current JAG officers who were not contacted prior to the list being published on JAGCNET. Congrats to those selected--I look forward to meeting you.

CFC_Essien
Posts: 32
Joined: Thu Aug 18, 2011 5:06 pm

Re: Military Law

Postby CFC_Essien » Sun Jan 08, 2012 10:03 pm

Congrats, DL2012. Care to share some stats?

wordtoyourmother12
Posts: 12
Joined: Sun Oct 19, 2008 9:07 pm

Re: Military Law

Postby wordtoyourmother12 » Mon Jan 09, 2012 3:02 am

Groundie wrote:
If Active Component fails there is JAG in the Reserves and the Guard. And remember, you can be Full Time in the Reserves/Guard.


In order to be a full time Reserve/Guard, don't you have to have prior JAG experience? The JARO website says:

"In general, applicants must be currently serving or former judge advocates from any branch of military service and must meet the appointment eligibility criteria of AR 27-1 (Judge Advocate Legal Services)."

Is there another program I am missing or do other branches have full time reservists?

Groundie
Posts: 69
Joined: Tue Mar 02, 2010 1:13 am

Re: Military Law

Postby Groundie » Mon Jan 09, 2012 5:09 am

Active Guard Reserve is different from being in the Reserve and being mobilized/deployed. AGR members work full-time at a specific Reserve base and don't really move around. They're the full-time employees who keep the Reserve running.

wannabejag
Posts: 74
Joined: Sat Oct 15, 2011 10:48 pm

Re: Military Law

Postby wannabejag » Mon Jan 09, 2012 9:42 am

wordtoyourmother12 wrote:
Groundie wrote:
If Active Component fails there is JAG in the Reserves and the Guard. And remember, you can be Full Time in the Reserves/Guard.


In order to be a full time Reserve/Guard, don't you have to have prior JAG experience? The JARO website says:

"In general, applicants must be currently serving or former judge advocates from any branch of military service and must meet the appointment eligibility criteria of AR 27-1 (Judge Advocate Legal Services)."

Is there another program I am missing or do other branches have full time reservists?


The AGR Program is run slightly differently in the National Guard across the 54 states/territories. The Reserve's program is run slightly different from the Guard. Generally speaking, although it would be possible you wouldn't get hired Active Guard Reserve (AGR) off the street, you would get accepted as a Reservist/Guardsman and apply for full time positions when positions become vacant. There are also Military Technicians, which require Miltiary Reserve/Guard Membership but you are paid on a GS pay grade like any other federal employee. In the Guard these employes are still required to wear their military uniform and blend right into the AGR/Guard population. In the Reserves they wear civilian clothes except for their drill weekend. These positions are commonly reffered t as "dual status".

There are also various mobilization oppurtunities whether it be a deployment (Kuwait, Afghanistan and so fourth) or a stateside activiation.

It is different then being in the Active Component but the training is still the same, and there is oppurtunity for advancement into full time slots if that is what you really wanted to do.

The sentence that you site can sound confusing if taken in its full context. You would essentially apply to a reserve/guard unit first, then subsequently apply for full time positions.

wannabejag
Posts: 74
Joined: Sat Oct 15, 2011 10:48 pm

Re: Military Law

Postby wannabejag » Mon Jan 09, 2012 10:09 am

And, in case I wasn't clear there are seperate application procedures between Active, Guard and Reserve Components, which is what I was originally saying.

lpecan
Posts: 5
Joined: Sun Nov 06, 2011 8:24 am

Re: Military Law

Postby lpecan » Mon Jan 09, 2012 10:14 am

wannabejag wrote:
wordtoyourmother12 wrote:
Groundie wrote:
If Active Component fails there is JAG in the Reserves and the Guard. And remember, you can be Full Time in the Reserves/Guard.


In order to be a full time Reserve/Guard, don't you have to have prior JAG experience? The JARO website says:

"In general, applicants must be currently serving or former judge advocates from any branch of military service and must meet the appointment eligibility criteria of AR 27-1 (Judge Advocate Legal Services)."

Is there another program I am missing or do other branches have full time reservists?


The AGR Program is run slightly differently in the National Guard across the 54 states/territories. The Reserve's program is run slightly different from the Guard. Generally speaking, although it would be possible you wouldn't get hired Active Guard Reserve (AGR) off the street, you would get accepted as a Reservist/Guardsman and apply for full time positions when positions become vacant. There are also Military Technicians, which require Miltiary Reserve/Guard Membership but you are paid on a GS pay grade like any other federal employee. In the Guard these employes are still required to wear their military uniform and blend right into the AGR/Guard population. In the Reserves they wear civilian clothes except for their drill weekend. These positions are commonly reffered t as "dual status".

There are also various mobilization oppurtunities whether it be a deployment (Kuwait, Afghanistan and so fourth) or a stateside activiation.

It is different then being in the Active Component but the training is still the same, and there is oppurtunity for advancement into full time slots if that is what you really wanted to do.

The sentence that you site can sound confusing if taken in its full context. You would essentially apply to a reserve/guard unit first, then subsequently apply for full time positions.


Good post. At least in the Air Force, ART officers are required to wear their uniform any time on duty. Enlisted members may wear civilian clothes when not in a military (Annual Tour, UTA, RMP) status. Either way, if you want to do reserves and serve your country, that's great. But don't count on it turning into a full time job. AGR and ART slots are very competitive, and comparatively few in the JAG corps.

wannabejag
Posts: 74
Joined: Sat Oct 15, 2011 10:48 pm

Re: Military Law

Postby wannabejag » Mon Jan 09, 2012 12:52 pm

lpecan wrote:
wannabejag wrote:
wordtoyourmother12 wrote:
Groundie wrote:
If Active Component fails there is JAG in the Reserves and the Guard. And remember, you can be Full Time in the Reserves/Guard.


In order to be a full time Reserve/Guard, don't you have to have prior JAG experience? The JARO website says:

"In general, applicants must be currently serving or former judge advocates from any branch of military service and must meet the appointment eligibility criteria of AR 27-1 (Judge Advocate Legal Services)."

Is there another program I am missing or do other branches have full time reservists?


The AGR Program is run slightly differently in the National Guard across the 54 states/territories. The Reserve's program is run slightly different from the Guard. Generally speaking, although it would be possible you wouldn't get hired Active Guard Reserve (AGR) off the street, you would get accepted as a Reservist/Guardsman and apply for full time positions when positions become vacant. There are also Military Technicians, which require Miltiary Reserve/Guard Membership but you are paid on a GS pay grade like any other federal employee. In the Guard these employes are still required to wear their military uniform and blend right into the AGR/Guard population. In the Reserves they wear civilian clothes except for their drill weekend. These positions are commonly reffered t as "dual status".

There are also various mobilization oppurtunities whether it be a deployment (Kuwait, Afghanistan and so fourth) or a stateside activiation.

It is different then being in the Active Component but the training is still the same, and there is oppurtunity for advancement into full time slots if that is what you really wanted to do.

The sentence that you site can sound confusing if taken in its full context. You would essentially apply to a reserve/guard unit first, then subsequently apply for full time positions.


Good post. At least in the Air Force, ART officers are required to wear their uniform any time on duty. Enlisted members may wear civilian clothes when not in a military (Annual Tour, UTA, RMP) status. Either way, if you want to do reserves and serve your country, that's great. But don't count on it turning into a full time job. AGR and ART slots are very competitive, and comparatively few in the JAG corps.


Very competitive, but if you are in need of a job and are stuck doing shit law, there is alwas the reserve route with hope of full time gig. Being willing to relocate anywhere is helpful in landing that type of position because there are very few gigs like that.

MilotheCloud
Posts: 7
Joined: Mon Jan 17, 2011 12:14 pm

Re: Military Law

Postby MilotheCloud » Mon Jan 09, 2012 1:29 pm

Didn't make the AD or Alternate list.

I'll be applying again next year.

Congratulations to everyone chosen!

jib253
Posts: 6
Joined: Mon Jan 09, 2012 1:19 pm

Re: Military Law

Postby jib253 » Mon Jan 09, 2012 1:36 pm

2L at Top 5 LS
174 LSAT
Moot Court
Prior work experience (before law school) with USDOJ, and U.S. Attorney's Office
Professionally Recommended 1st try for Navy JAG SP

Texan09
Posts: 74
Joined: Tue Mar 09, 2010 5:06 pm

Re: Military Law

Postby Texan09 » Mon Jan 09, 2012 2:18 pm

Army results are out. Good luck and congrats to all.

--LinkRemoved--

Hopefully intern results are soon to follow.

User avatar
Rotor
Posts: 917
Joined: Sat Oct 04, 2008 11:06 pm

Re: Military Law

Postby Rotor » Tue Jan 10, 2012 12:47 pm

Texan09 wrote:Army results are out. Good luck and congrats to all.

--LinkRemoved--

Hopefully intern results are soon to follow.

And hopefully will end the bickering about T14 or bust for JAG; 7 of 90 in T14 this year.

And no offense intended if you're this guy and read these boards, but what/where is the Jacob Fuchsberg Law Center? (heading to google).

Edit: ahhhhh. Otherwise known as Touro

CFC_Essien
Posts: 32
Joined: Thu Aug 18, 2011 5:06 pm

Re: Military Law

Postby CFC_Essien » Tue Jan 10, 2012 2:36 pm

Rotor wrote:
Texan09 wrote:Army results are out. Good luck and congrats to all.

--LinkRemoved--

Hopefully intern results are soon to follow.

And hopefully will end the bickering about T14 or bust for JAG; 7 of 90 in T14 this year.

And no offense intended if you're this guy and read these boards, but what/where is the Jacob Fuchsberg Law Center? (heading to google).

Edit: ahhhhh. Otherwise known as Touro


I get your point, but we also don't know class rank, GPA, moot court, law journal, and the like -- nor will we ever know.

Again, congrats to those who made it.

User avatar
Paichka
Posts: 287
Joined: Sat Mar 15, 2008 11:17 am

Re: Military Law

Postby Paichka » Tue Jan 10, 2012 3:05 pm

Well, what it DOES tell us is that the Army is less concerned with prestige and MORE concerned with whether the person is going to be a good fit as not only an Army lawyer, but an Army officer.

I can only analogize this selection process to the selection process for the Funded Legal Education Program. The selection for FLEP had little to do with GPA or LSAT -- there were people on the list my year who had 150s and 3.0 GPAs. What the board was looking for was who best fit in the "total soldier" concept, who demonstrated a strong desire to serve, and who had good recommendations from people who could speak to their ability to serve in high level staff billets, be independent thinkers, etc.

Obviously, people who want to go JAG should start thinking about it early on and try to tailor their law school experience accordingly -- summer internships, working for Army judges during the school year if there is a base nearby (course credit and a fantastic recommendation opportunity? win!), physical fitness, demonstrated leadership in the law school and wider community, etc etc etc. For people who go to school near Army bases, definitely seek out opportunities to intern with trial judges (or hell, in OSJA offices if the SJA blesses off on it) during the school year -- an O-6 judge with 24 years in, who can speak directly to your ability to succeed within the JAG Corps, is going to carry a lot of weight with the board. Grades are great too, obviously, as is journal, moot court, mock trial, all that, but I'm focused more on the things that you can control (rather than just influence -- ie, grades).

Anyhoo, just my 2 cents.

wannabejag
Posts: 74
Joined: Sat Oct 15, 2011 10:48 pm

Re: Military Law

Postby wannabejag » Tue Jan 10, 2012 3:09 pm

Rotor wrote:
Texan09 wrote:Army results are out. Good luck and congrats to all.

--LinkRemoved--

Hopefully intern results are soon to follow.

And hopefully will end the bickering about T14 or bust for JAG; 7 of 90 in T14 this year.

And no offense intended if you're this guy and read these boards, but what/where is the Jacob Fuchsberg Law Center? (heading to google).

Edit: ahhhhh. Otherwise known as Touro


And, lets add to the record there were 22 schools in Tier Four.

User avatar
Patrick Bateman
Posts: 595
Joined: Tue Feb 19, 2008 5:41 pm

Re: Military Law

Postby Patrick Bateman » Tue Jan 10, 2012 4:01 pm

Update on the Air Force Internship Program:

The posting should be up on USAJOBS by the end of the week. We are now hiring BOTH 1Ls and 2Ls. 1L interns will be paid as GS-7s, 2Ls as GS-9s. I've got zero situational awareness of how many interns they will be hiring.

Your career services offices will be notified by JAX when the posting goes online w/ USAJOBS.

This represents literally everything I know, so follow up questions are not probably going to get you all anywhere. Happy hunting and good luck to all.

CFC_Essien
Posts: 32
Joined: Thu Aug 18, 2011 5:06 pm

Re: Military Law

Postby CFC_Essien » Tue Jan 10, 2012 4:51 pm

Capt. Bateman (I believe it's Capt.?):

Regarding information on stregthening one's package, would it be better to contact JAX and get their opinion or that of the SJA? I assume that the latter may be the better source since they conducted the interview, but I figure it's been awhile since my interview (in July) and it was a larger base so their memory might not be that great in light of interviewing many candidates. Further, does the SJA even keep anything on file? It's my understanding they send everything to JAX so they might not even have anything to go from. Thus it may be better to contact JAX?

Thanks

User avatar
prezidentv8
Posts: 2821
Joined: Mon Dec 29, 2008 5:33 am

Re: Military Law

Postby prezidentv8 » Tue Jan 10, 2012 6:16 pm

No Army for me either. Dangit. 0/3 on JAG apps. Guess we'll have to see what happens in the spring.

User avatar
Patrick Bateman
Posts: 595
Joined: Tue Feb 19, 2008 5:41 pm

Re: Military Law

Postby Patrick Bateman » Tue Jan 10, 2012 11:13 pm

CFC_Essien wrote:Capt. Bateman (I believe it's Capt.?):

Regarding information on stregthening one's package, would it be better to contact JAX and get their opinion or that of the SJA? I assume that the latter may be the better source since they conducted the interview, but I figure it's been awhile since my interview (in July) and it was a larger base so their memory might not be that great in light of interviewing many candidates. Further, does the SJA even keep anything on file? It's my understanding they send everything to JAX so they might not even have anything to go from. Thus it may be better to contact JAX?

Thanks


CFC:

Is the question if I am a Captain or if "Capt." is the proper abbreviation? "Yes" and "Capt" – (no period at the end), respectively.

I have never heard of JAX giving this sort of advice to applicants. They have always done an excellent job breaking down the application process or the application itself but there are just too many variables (hence the previous few pages of debate on what makes a successful applicant) for them to give "soft factor" advice. I'm fairly certain that the officers and civilians you speak to when you call the 1-800 number do not have any inside information regarding a given selection board. Even if they did, it would raise a whole host of issues for them to provide that sort of information to potential applicants. There is also the practical consideration of JAX having the manning to support these sorts of questions from the hundreds of non-selects each board - imagine a law school dean of admissions trying to offer application critiques to rejected law applicants.

No issues with pinging the SJA that interviewed you. They are under no obligation or anything but the SJAs I have had in the past have always been open to that sort of thing, time permitting (these are very busy people). I have no idea if the SJA maintains records if your application materials - my understanding is that all the wet signature originals you provide at the interview go directly to JAX. I would coordinate a head of time with whatever JAG is handling the Recruiting OIC duties; you may be able to resend a digital copy of your application materials to help jog the SJA's memory. Worst case, you can always ask the Recruiting OIC or another Captain level JAG for a review of the package
.

us.army.jag.hopeful
Posts: 8
Joined: Wed Jan 11, 2012 10:07 am

Re: Military Law

Postby us.army.jag.hopeful » Wed Jan 11, 2012 10:12 am

After the Army AD results, what do you all think the chances of getting picked up are for those on the Alternate List? And what will likely happen to the Army Reserves results?

wannabejag
Posts: 74
Joined: Sat Oct 15, 2011 10:48 pm

Re: Military Law

Postby wannabejag » Wed Jan 11, 2012 12:33 pm

us.army.jag.hopeful wrote:After the Army AD results, what do you all think the chances of getting picked up are for those on the Alternate List? And what will likely happen to the Army Reserves results?


Possible. It will depend on a number of things. Mainly who doesn't except the offer. There will be a few who secured $$$$ employment and will defer the JAG selection. Also, there may be some that get DQ for military service.

ZeroDay
Posts: 20
Joined: Tue Jan 10, 2012 10:29 pm

Re: Military Law

Postby ZeroDay » Wed Jan 11, 2012 3:41 pm

wannabejag wrote:
us.army.jag.hopeful wrote:After the Army AD results, what do you all think the chances of getting picked up are for those on the Alternate List? And what will likely happen to the Army Reserves results?


Possible. It will depend on a number of things. Mainly who doesn't except the offer. There will be a few who secured $$$$ employment and will defer the JAG selection. Also, there may be some that get DQ for military service.


For the fall 2009 application season (the FY 2010 board), 31 alternates were selected for active duty. A similar number of alternates were selected from the fall 2008 application season. These results were posted on jagcnet. I can't, however, find any information on the number of alternates selected from last year's application season -- I wish I knew that number so I could better gauge my chances of being selected off this year's list of alternates.




Return to “Legal Employment”

Who is online

The online users are hidden on this forum.