Military Law

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Groundie
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Re: Military Law

Postby Groundie » Thu Sep 22, 2011 8:11 pm

Had my Army interview this week. After years of being rejected from the AF and the Navy, it's time to hope that the people who first gave me a chance with JAG experience, the Army, will give me another for active duty.

shock259
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Re: Military Law

Postby shock259 » Thu Sep 22, 2011 9:22 pm

Good luck, Groundie.

Did you get any curveballs in your interview? I'm always searching for interview tips, so if you feel like sharing, that would be awesome. Don't worry - I won't be applying for another year. :P

Groundie
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Re: Military Law

Postby Groundie » Thu Sep 22, 2011 10:21 pm

Nothing too crazy—usual questions about why, deployment, JAG lifestyle, areas of practice. They asked for some ups and downs. I've done the AF and Navy a few times and I feel like the Army interview does not have as many curveballs.

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Patrick Bateman
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Re: Military Law

Postby Patrick Bateman » Fri Sep 23, 2011 1:21 pm

Esquire wrote:
This time last year I was in a joint deployment and had the opportunity of working with JAGs from all the services (save the Coasties) - there are some significant differences, both practical and philosophical, between all of us. This applies in terms of serving not just as a JAG but as a officer in the larger sense. Based on the time I have spent TDY at the Army JAG School, there are at least two AF JAGs and a handful of Navy that are there as faculty, to say nothing of all the LLM students.


PB: Since you've had some experience, can you elaborate on what you feel are the differences between JAGs of each branch?


I don't want to comment on all of my subjective impressions of the different services. If my limited time in has taught me anything so far, there is no single characterization for each service. It really comes down to the people. I've had the privilege of working with some simply remarkable JAGs that were exemplary standard bearers for their service - I've also worked with those, Air Force included, that make me cringe when I consider them representing the JAG Corps and Officer Corps. For the newly commissioned or those aspiring to be, don't be the insufferable new CGO that thinks their service branch is the absolute ne plus ultra of the Armed Forces. Pride in your uniform is great and the sibling rivalry between the services is healthy, but you will be doing yourself a major disservice to discount someone based on the uniform an individual is wearing.

I’m not sure if you are looking for me to get into the practical differences. A lot of the day-to-day differences I think have been covered on the previous posts but I’m happy to elaborate if that is information you all want.

hasmith
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Re: Military Law

Postby hasmith » Fri Sep 23, 2011 1:39 pm

Not a JAG officer yet, but having served as an officer in a number of joint billets, both in an active and reserve capacity, I agree with this analysis. Every service has its strenghts and weaknesses, including the officers within that service.

Groundie
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Re: Military Law

Postby Groundie » Fri Sep 23, 2011 5:56 pm

On a light-hearted note, Capt. Bateman, how do you feel about the Air Force's service uniform compared to the new Army one? I had my first in-person experience with the new Army one this week.

mrloblaw
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Re: Military Law

Postby mrloblaw » Sat Sep 24, 2011 11:54 pm

First time poster in the thread, although I've been thinking about JAG since 0L. If the question has been answered in any of the previous hundred pages, let me know; I only made it through 10 or so.

The AF does only "informational interviews" at my campus. I'm not sure what that means, outside what can be found from a cursory google search. Is this still what I should use as a starting point for a career in JAG? Should I be contacting recruiters instead?

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Patrick Bateman
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Re: Military Law

Postby Patrick Bateman » Sun Sep 25, 2011 4:10 pm

Groundie wrote:On a light-hearted note, Capt. Bateman, how do you feel about the Air Force's service uniform compared to the new Army one? I had my first in-person experience with the new Army one this week.


With the service coat on, I like the ASU. It is incredibly busy and I did not like where they relegated the combat patch and tabs, but overall I like it. The Class Bs are another story. The white shirt with an ton of stuff hanging off of it and the blue pants gives off a JRTOC vibe.

I am no fan of AF service dress. The three button coat devoid of any design features that could be considered distinctively military (four buttons, pockets on the chest) is kind of embarrassing. Our Blues (Class Bs) are a bit of a weird throw back for me as it is essentially the exact same uniform I wore in grade school. I went back there in uniform after my deployment and just had to laugh that despite 15 years, college, law school, and an officer's commission, I was still in the same color scheme.

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Patrick Bateman
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Re: Military Law

Postby Patrick Bateman » Sun Sep 25, 2011 4:42 pm

mrloblaw wrote:First time poster in the thread, although I've been thinking about JAG since 0L. If the question has been answered in any of the previous hundred pages, let me know; I only made it through 10 or so.

The AF does only "informational interviews" at my campus. I'm not sure what that means, outside what can be found from a cursory google search. Is this still what I should use as a starting point for a career in JAG? Should I be contacting recruiters instead?


We're not here to talk nonsense to Bob Loblaw.

The informational interview will have a captain from an AFB legal office. He/she will not be actively evaluating you or anything, just there to discuss the various accession programs and answer any questions you might have about the application process, serving as a JAG, etc. I think it is a good idea to attend the interview, if only to get the perspective of someone that has been through the process.

If you want to apply for GLP, OYCP, or DAP, that interview occurs with the Staff Judge Advocate of an AFB legal office.

Keep in mind that there are no "recruiters" for the JAG Corps. There are the active duty JAGs at base legal that serve as recruiting representatives as an extra duty and then the O-5/O-6 SJAs that do the application interviews. JAX is the JAG directorate that handles officer accessions - they are the only official "recruiters." You can get a hold of them at 1-800-JAG-USAF or --LinkRemoved--

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DMBFan
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Re: Military Law

Postby DMBFan » Tue Sep 27, 2011 9:32 pm

I am interested in applying for a JAG internships this summer, and I'd like to ask my previous CO (I was a naval officer before law school) for a letter of reccomendation. I know he's going to ask for a template. If anyone has one and is willing to share, please PM me. Thanks!

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oberlin08
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Re: Military Law

Postby oberlin08 » Wed Sep 28, 2011 11:45 am

Does anyone know what types of questions FSO for the Army might ask me in an interview?

This is for the 2L internship.

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shepdawg
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Re: Military Law

Postby shepdawg » Wed Sep 28, 2011 8:31 pm

Can anyone testify to the quality of life for those working in the Department of Navy: Office of General Council?
Pay? Hours worked? Stress level?

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Kabuo
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Re: Military Law

Postby Kabuo » Wed Sep 28, 2011 8:45 pm

I'm sure this has been mentioned somewhere in here, and I plan on reading the whole thread eventually, but I can't find it so far and am tired of looking. I was looking at the Navy JAG internship (long family Navy tradition), and the only thing I'm worried about is the section asking if you have ever experimented. The extent of my drug use is having smoked weed twice, but one of those times was as recently as March the spring before I started LS. Is this going to be a problem? I know the military can be pretty strict about these things.

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Patrick Bateman
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Re: Military Law

Postby Patrick Bateman » Wed Sep 28, 2011 10:51 pm

Kabuo wrote:I'm sure this has been mentioned somewhere in here, and I plan on reading the whole thread eventually, but I can't find it so far and am tired of looking. I was looking at the Navy JAG internship (long family Navy tradition), and the only thing I'm worried about is the section asking if you have ever experimented. The extent of my drug use is having smoked weed twice, but one of those times was as recently as March the spring before I started LS. Is this going to be a problem? I know the military can be pretty strict about these things.


Not speaking to USN specifically, but drug use is something that gets looked at very closely for officer applicants. Generally marijuana use is forgivable as long as it was very limited, a matter of curiosity/experimentation, no distribution occurred, etc. You may have more of an issue in that one of your uses came when you were older and knew better.

No matter what, I recommend being as honest as possible. Without question, integrity is a quality all the services look for in those they commission. As many a politician has learned, it is not the act, but the coverup, that kills you.

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Kabuo
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Re: Military Law

Postby Kabuo » Wed Sep 28, 2011 11:32 pm

Patrick Bateman wrote:
Kabuo wrote:I'm sure this has been mentioned somewhere in here, and I plan on reading the whole thread eventually, but I can't find it so far and am tired of looking. I was looking at the Navy JAG internship (long family Navy tradition), and the only thing I'm worried about is the section asking if you have ever experimented. The extent of my drug use is having smoked weed twice, but one of those times was as recently as March the spring before I started LS. Is this going to be a problem? I know the military can be pretty strict about these things.


Not speaking to USN specifically, but drug use is something that gets looked at very closely for officer applicants. Generally marijuana use is forgivable as long as it was very limited, a matter of curiosity/experimentation, no distribution occurred, etc. You may have more of an issue in that one of your uses came when you were older and knew better.

No matter what, I recommend being as honest as possible. Without question, integrity is a quality all the services look for in those they commission. As many a politician has learned, it is not the act, but the coverup, that kills you.


Yeah this is what I was afraid of. I think I'll have a very strong application otherwise, and I'm going to be feeling pretty stupid about this if it dings me.

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Patrick Bateman
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Re: Military Law

Postby Patrick Bateman » Thu Sep 29, 2011 1:05 pm

Kabuo wrote:
Patrick Bateman wrote:
Kabuo wrote:I'm sure this has been mentioned somewhere in here, and I plan on reading the whole thread eventually, but I can't find it so far and am tired of looking. I was looking at the Navy JAG internship (long family Navy tradition), and the only thing I'm worried about is the section asking if you have ever experimented. The extent of my drug use is having smoked weed twice, but one of those times was as recently as March the spring before I started LS. Is this going to be a problem? I know the military can be pretty strict about these things.


Not speaking to USN specifically, but drug use is something that gets looked at very closely for officer applicants. Generally marijuana use is forgivable as long as it was very limited, a matter of curiosity/experimentation, no distribution occurred, etc. You may have more of an issue in that one of your uses came when you were older and knew better.

No matter what, I recommend being as honest as possible. Without question, integrity is a quality all the services look for in those they commission. As many a politician has learned, it is not the act, but the coverup, that kills you.


Yeah this is what I was afraid of. I think I'll have a very strong application otherwise, and I'm going to be feeling pretty stupid about this if it dings me.


This is in no way a slight to my comrades in ACUs out there but if it appears the drug use will make the Navy a no-go, you should seriously consider the Army.
A personal friend of mine was unable to get picked up by USAF due to drug related issues despite a rock star application package- he later put in for Army JAG and was picked up.
Might not be your first choice given your family’s ties to the Navy but if you are serious about serving, it is an alternate path worth pursuing.

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Esquire
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Re: Military Law

Postby Esquire » Fri Sep 30, 2011 6:40 pm

I don't understand.

Are you saying one branch is more willing to overlook prior drug use as opposed to another? Perhaps the USAF didn't want this applicant while the Army did, exclusive of drug use? Did USAF specifically say "You'd be in... if it weren't for prior drug use?" Just curious.

hasmith
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Re: Military Law

Postby hasmith » Sat Oct 01, 2011 8:21 am

Passed the bar! Navy Justice School starts next Tuesday

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Rotor
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Re: Military Law

Postby Rotor » Sat Oct 01, 2011 12:19 pm

hasmith wrote:Passed the bar! Navy Justice School starts next Tuesday

Congrats, Shipmate!! Enjoy Newport. It's a great town. And you should be wrapping up NJS before it gets bitterly cold in Jan/Feb.

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Patrick Bateman
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Re: Military Law

Postby Patrick Bateman » Sat Oct 01, 2011 6:44 pm

Esquire wrote:I don't understand.

Are you saying one branch is more willing to overlook prior drug use as opposed to another? Perhaps the USAF didn't want this applicant while the Army did, exclusive of drug use? Did USAF specifically say "You'd be in... if it weren't for prior drug use?" Just curious.


I could have phrased that better.

Based on my experience, which in this case is pretty limited, the Army has been more flexible in granting drug use waivers than the AF. For all the instances I have direct knowledge of, it was a good decision by the Army - they were all great applicants that have the potential to be outstanding officers. The drug use policies for me have always been a sticky wicket - there is a line that has to be drawn but at what point do you start losing out on truly quality applicants because they may have made a poor decision years back? I think the FBI changing their marijuana use policy speaks to this.

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Esquire
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Re: Military Law

Postby Esquire » Sun Oct 02, 2011 1:01 pm

Ah, I see. Thanks for the clarification.

I spoke to a buddy who was a 2L intern when I was a 1L. He's in the Army's 185th JAOBC. Check out the numbers for his class:

"There are 115ish of us. 40ish of us are Active Duty the remaining are reservist and national guardsmen. Of the 40 Active Duty probably 25-30 of us are Direct Commissions"

No wonder it's so tough to get an AD select. There are 3 JAOBCs a year, I think, so that's about ~75 spots a year for many on this forum. And number of spots available are going down. Good luck :shock:

upnorthguy
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Re: Military Law

Postby upnorthguy » Sun Oct 02, 2011 1:46 pm

Esquire wrote:Ah, I see. Thanks for the clarification.

I spoke to a buddy who was a 2L intern when I was a 1L. He's in the Army's 185th JAOBC. Check out the numbers for his class:

"There are 115ish of us. 40ish of us are Active Duty the remaining are reservist and national guardsmen. Of the 40 Active Duty probably 25-30 of us are Direct Commissions"

No wonder it's so tough to get an AD select. There are 3 JAOBCs a year, I think, so that's about ~75 spots a year for many on this forum. And number of spots available are going down. Good luck :shock:


Based on what I've seen/heard over the past couple of years, that ratio you were given is not always in place. Depending on the time of year, there are sometimes more AD people than AR/NG in JAOBC, basically reversing the ratio in the 185th.

lsatClay
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Re: Military Law

Postby lsatClay » Sun Oct 02, 2011 6:20 pm

Does anyone know who I should have my letters of recommendation addressed to? I'm running into a brick wall here.

For the summer internship with all three branches, FYI

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LSATmakesMeNeurotic
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Re: Military Law

Postby LSATmakesMeNeurotic » Thu Oct 06, 2011 7:30 pm

Not sure if it was mentioned here, but I just went to the Army JAG website and 1L positions have been suspended for the fiscal year 2012. GAH *&%$*&^#&% economy!

sfalloon
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Re: Military Law

Postby sfalloon » Fri Oct 07, 2011 12:37 pm

hasmith wrote:Passed the bar! Navy Justice School starts next Tuesday


Congrats hasmith!

Sitting here reading your posts. I am greatful for the continued valuable information and a bit said I won't be able to join after all. If the commarade on here is anything like the field, I think I would ahve enjoyed it.

Congrats to all of you who are JAG Core Officers and Interns. Good luck to those of you who are going through the process or considering becoming JAG.




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