Military Law

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Paichka
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Re: Military Law

Postby Paichka » Tue Jul 12, 2011 9:13 am

ArmyOfficer wrote:I am planning to apply for the 2011 Army Funded Legal Application Proogram in a few months when the application window opens. I have a 167 LSAT score, good GPA, and good OERs. Is there anybody here that was picked up for Army FLEP before and has any hints of what makes a successful packet? Or anybody applying this year that has any thoughts? Thanks.


I'm a FLEP candidate -- I'll graduate in 2012. The absolute BEST thing that you can have in your packet are detailed, insightful letters of recommendation, PREFERABLY from your brigade commander, discussing your ability to succeed as a brigade-level staff officer (which is what a JAG is, natch). I had three, all from the same unit -- two LTCs (my brigade XO and battalion commander), and one from my brigade commander. All three emphasized my ability to synthesize information, keep my commanders informed, brief well, be calm and confident under pressure, etc etc. If any can discuss your previous legal experience (IE, were you a 15-6 officer ever, or did you ever investigate a FLIPL?) then that's awesome too. However, what's most important about these LORs is that they be personal, from people who can actually talk about you as a person and as an officer.

Too many people get these generic LORs from generals (like their division commander or something) which say absolutely nothing of value (great officer! a credit to the corps!) because it's obvious that the guy wouldn't be able to pick the candidate out of a line up. That being said, if you were ever a general's aide, or a general can give you a legit LOR, then absolutely go with that person. You just need something that will make you stand out from the crowd.

Your LSAT is great, but numbers aren't really what the FLEP board is looking for -- I know people who had 150-ish LSATs who still got picked up. The board is looking for a "total officer" -- so, your OERs and service record (any deployments, awards, that sort of thing) will mean more to them than your grades and LSAT.

Good luck!

jess8328
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Re: Military Law

Postby jess8328 » Wed Jul 13, 2011 11:11 am

Americana wrote:My LSO contact emailed the other day about the still unposted Army Reserve JAG results. The LSOs are just as clueless about the timeframe as we are, but he said the delay is just due to an unusually large number of applicants.

Good luck and happy waiting to any other USAR JAG applicants!



Here's what JARO said about the delay on Facebook:

"The Army RC is undergoing a study on manpower needs at this moment, and the board results will be posted after this is completed. Unfortunately it is beyond this office's power to know when this might be. Thank you for your interest in the JAG Corps. As we say in the shop: MTF..."

mj18
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Re: Military Law

Postby mj18 » Thu Jul 14, 2011 8:59 am

This may sound like a dumb question, and sorry if it was already answered, but what bar exam should I be looking into registering for if this type of law was to interest me?

hasmith
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Re: Military Law

Postby hasmith » Thu Jul 14, 2011 3:59 pm

mj18 wrote:This may sound like a dumb question, and sorry if it was already answered, but what bar exam should I be looking into registering for if this type of law was to interest me?


It doesn't matter, you only need to be registered in one state. Many people will simply take the bar exam in the state where there school is located for convenience. Perhaps if you live in a jurisdiction with a low passage rate it is worth taking it somewhere else, but it seems like a pain to me.

mj18
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Re: Military Law

Postby mj18 » Thu Jul 14, 2011 4:21 pm

hasmith wrote:
mj18 wrote:This may sound like a dumb question, and sorry if it was already answered, but what bar exam should I be looking into registering for if this type of law was to interest me?


It doesn't matter, you only need to be registered in one state. Many people will simply take the bar exam in the state where there school is located for convenience. Perhaps if you live in a jurisdiction with a low passage rate it is worth taking it somewhere else, but it seems like a pain to me.


Alright, thank you!

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Patrick Bateman
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Re: Military Law

Postby Patrick Bateman » Thu Jul 14, 2011 7:46 pm

mj18 wrote:This may sound like a dumb question, and sorry if it was already answered, but what bar exam should I be looking into registering for if this type of law was to interest me?


I always recommend the bar of the state in which you would practice in the event you seperated from active duty service.

In the Air Force, the timing of your bar results will impact which OTS/JASOC class to which you are assigned, but there really is no reason to pick a state simply to move your potential class dates around.

brownshoe
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Re: Military Law

Postby brownshoe » Thu Jul 14, 2011 8:09 pm

Patrick Bateman wrote:
mj18 wrote:This may sound like a dumb question, and sorry if it was already answered, but what bar exam should I be looking into registering for if this type of law was to interest me?


I always recommend the bar of the state in which you would practice in the event you seperated from active duty service.

In the Air Force, the timing of your bar results will impact which OTS/JASOC class to which you are assigned, but there really is no reason to pick a state simply to move your potential class dates around.

Same for the Navy. I actually know people that did take a bar that allowed them to got to NJS (Naval Justice School) 4-6 months earlier than they would have otherwise been able to. Obviously, it's a personal choice, but if you have no ties to a particular state, it might be worth it - 6 months of salary + health care can be critical for some people with young families.

mj18
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Re: Military Law

Postby mj18 » Fri Jul 15, 2011 12:00 am

Thank you all for the insight. I've taken an interest in this area relatively recently so I don't know much about the process and am trying to learn as much as possible. I really appreciate all of the advice.

nomargfan5
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Re: Military Law

Postby nomargfan5 » Mon Jul 18, 2011 3:48 pm

Bateman,

Are your CLE requirements for your state the same regardless of being in JAG? Is there some kind of waiver? Thanks!

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Patrick Bateman
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Re: Military Law

Postby Patrick Bateman » Mon Jul 18, 2011 4:35 pm

nomargfan5 wrote:Bateman,

Are your CLE requirements for your state the same regardless of being in JAG? Is there some kind of waiver? Thanks!


At least in the great state of Illinois, active duty personnel are exempt from CLE. I just called after I was commissioned and sent them a copy of my AD orders - have not had to deal with it since. This varies state by state, so it is best to check with your state bar.

nomargfan5
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Re: Military Law

Postby nomargfan5 » Wed Jul 20, 2011 8:24 am

Thanks, Bateman! PA and NJ also give waivers!

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Esquire
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Re: Military Law

Postby Esquire » Thu Jul 21, 2011 10:09 pm

Yep. So does NY. Now I have to worry about paying bar dues. I'm not sure I can find whether military are exempt from that.

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Patrick Bateman
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Re: Military Law

Postby Patrick Bateman » Thu Jul 21, 2011 10:21 pm

Esquire wrote:Yep. So does NY. Now I have to worry about paying bar dues. I'm not sure I can find whether military are exempt from that.


Air Force JAG repays up to $350 (don't quote me on this figure but it is in the ballpark) of our annual bar dues.

firemed
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Re: Military Law

Postby firemed » Fri Jul 22, 2011 3:28 pm

I am very interested in trying for this (National Guard if nothing else), but also Army and Navy (too old for Marines or AF). I recently found out I most likely (like 90+% chance) do not have the kidney disease that kept me out many years ago (no kidney disease at all, in fact). So I am rereading Starship Troopers and doing research on websites.

I just wanted to thank y'all for taking the time to fill this thread with so much information. I am about 10 pages in and I am really learning a lot.

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Patrick Bateman
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Re: Military Law

Postby Patrick Bateman » Fri Jul 22, 2011 4:13 pm

firemed wrote:I am very interested in trying for this (National Guard if nothing else), but also Army and Navy (too old for Marines or AF). I recently found out I most likely (like 90+% chance) do not have the kidney disease that kept me out many years ago (no kidney disease at all, in fact). So I am rereading Starship Troopers and doing research on websites.

I just wanted to thank y'all for taking the time to fill this thread with so much information. I am about 10 pages in and I am really learning a lot.


"Violence, naked force, has settled more issues in history than has any other factor..."

Such an outstanding book. Good luck to you!

firemed
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Re: Military Law

Postby firemed » Sat Jul 23, 2011 3:27 pm

So I have a question:

I checked with the AF and they said it would be worth applying for a waiver. Which is awesome! There is an issue though...

Here I am with five options- Army, Navy, Air Force, Coast Guard, and National Guard. This is the order I would rank them in of where I would like to serve. The issue, however, is that the Army (unless I missed something) doesn't take you until after you have passed the bar (ditto with NG), but the majority of candidates for the Navy and Air Force get in during their 2L year. So... what would y'all do under those circumstances? I mean, I would like to apply to all of them to maximise my chances, but I have a definite preference for Army or Navy over the others. And a slight preference for Army over Navy, but I know the Navy only takes 5 direct appointments a year.

Any advice? What would you do?

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Patrick Bateman
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Re: Military Law

Postby Patrick Bateman » Sat Jul 23, 2011 3:40 pm

firemed wrote:So I have a question:

I checked with the AF and they said it would be worth applying for a waiver. Which is awesome! There is an issue though...

Here I am with five options- Army, Navy, Air Force, Coast Guard, and National Guard. This is the order I would rank them in of where I would like to serve. The issue, however, is that the Army (unless I missed something) doesn't take you until after you have passed the bar (ditto with NG), but the majority of candidates for the Navy and Air Force get in during their 2L year. So... what would y'all do under those circumstances? I mean, I would like to apply to all of them to maximise my chances, but I have a definite preference for Army or Navy over the others. And a slight preference for Army over Navy, but I know the Navy only takes 5 direct appointments a year.

Any advice? What would you do?


The Air Force gets its JAGs from both 2Ls/3Ls through the ROTC programs, Graduate Law Program/One Year College Program. The bulk of us come through the Direct Appointment Program, which can be applied for as early as 3L, but you do not commission until you pass the bar.

I'm fairly certain the Army hires through the same general sort of programs, both ROTC and direct appointment. There are a number of highly qualified Army guys on this board, I'm sure they will be able to cover this in greater detail.

You are correct regarding the Navy hiring almost exclusively out of 2L.
Last edited by Patrick Bateman on Sat Jul 23, 2011 3:51 pm, edited 1 time in total.

firemed
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Re: Military Law

Postby firemed » Sat Jul 23, 2011 3:50 pm

Patrick Bateman wrote:The Air Force gets its JAGs from both 2Ls/3Ls through the ROTC programs, Graduate Law Program/Once Year College Program. The bulk of us come through the Direct Appointment Program, which can be applied for as early as 3L, but you do not commission until you pass the bar.

I'm fairly certain the Army hires through the same general sort of programs, both ROTC and direct appointment. There are a number of highly qualified Army guys on this board, I'm sure they will be able to cover this in greater detail.

You are correct regarding the Navy hiring almost exclusively out of 2L.


Thank you for that information!

Well, if the Air Force gets a lot of their candidates through Direct Appointment then all I really need to worry about is whether I am willing to give up Army for Navy.

If any of the Army guys/gals on here can let me know if there is another program other than Direct Appointment that I missed, that would be awesome.

To be totally honest these are just preferences, not absolutes. Any chance to serve my country in the Armed Services is fine with me.

hasmith
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Re: Military Law

Postby hasmith » Sun Jul 24, 2011 6:43 pm

Patrick Bateman wrote:
You are correct regarding the Navy hiring almost exclusively out of 2L.


The Navy gets the majority of its JAGs through the student program, but that program is open to both 2Ls and 3Ls.

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Americana
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Re: Military Law

Postby Americana » Mon Jul 25, 2011 12:45 pm

Response from Army JAG Reserve office re April 2011 applicants:

"The results have not yet been confirmed by TJAG. They should be out prior
to the next board. Thank you for your patience."

E.g... Hurry up and wait! :lol:

jess8328
Posts: 123
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Re: Military Law

Postby jess8328 » Mon Jul 25, 2011 8:09 pm

Americana wrote:Response from Army JAG Reserve office re April 2011 applicants:

"The results have not yet been confirmed by TJAG. They should be out prior
to the next board. Thank you for your patience."

E.g... Hurry up and wait! :lol:



Before the due date of the next board or the results of the next board? We could be waiting for a while, lol.

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Americana
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Re: Military Law

Postby Americana » Wed Jul 27, 2011 9:35 am

jess8328 wrote:
Americana wrote:Response from Army JAG Reserve office re April 2011 applicants:

"The results have not yet been confirmed by TJAG. They should be out prior
to the next board. Thank you for your patience."

E.g... Hurry up and wait! :lol:



Before the due date of the next board or the results of the next board? We could be waiting for a while, lol.



I wondered the same thing... It seemed like she was saying prior to the next board results. Who the hell knows at this point. My wife is getting pretty irritated and would like to know if I'm going to be gone for four months.

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Perch
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Re: Military Law

Postby Perch » Wed Jul 27, 2011 10:52 am

I'm sure this has been asked before, but what is more important to being commissioned: the caliber of school that you attended, or the rank within your respective class? obviously there would be a huge difference between a T14 and TTTT, but as a general rule which is more important?

thanks all.

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CelticLily
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Re: Military Law

Postby CelticLily » Fri Jul 29, 2011 10:48 am

I think it's safe for me to assume that those of us that are interested in JAG Corps think that we have somewhat of an idea of what the lifestyle is like/ what to expect which is why we are pursuing it. For those of you that are current JAGs what surprised you the most [either positive or negative] after reporting to your first duty station?

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Esquire
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Re: Military Law

Postby Esquire » Fri Jul 29, 2011 6:00 pm

firemed wrote:So I have a question:

I checked with the AF and they said it would be worth applying for a waiver. Which is awesome! There is an issue though...

Here I am with five options- Army, Navy, Air Force, Coast Guard, and National Guard. This is the order I would rank them in of where I would like to serve. The issue, however, is that the Army (unless I missed something) doesn't take you until after you have passed the bar (ditto with NG), but the majority of candidates for the Navy and Air Force get in during their 2L year. So... what would y'all do under those circumstances? I mean, I would like to apply to all of them to maximise my chances, but I have a definite preference for Army or Navy over the others. And a slight preference for Army over Navy, but I know the Navy only takes 5 direct appointments a year.

Any advice? What would you do?

Army gets in via Direct Appointment. The earliest you can be picked up for a commission is as a 3L. Same with USAF. Navy or USMC will pull you as a 2L.

Good choice on the Army.

Perch wrote:I'm sure this has been asked before, but what is more important to being commissioned: the caliber of school that you attended, or the rank within your respective class? obviously there would be a huge difference between a T14 and TTTT, but as a general rule which is more important?

thanks all.

No one can say definitively. Who knows what criteria they use. From the Army's publicly released selections, I think they purposely pull from different ranges of law schools.




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