Military Law

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howell
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Re: Military Law

Postby howell » Mon Apr 18, 2011 5:12 pm

So what are the dress codes for the different summer internships (if they differ)?

And for anyone doing a summer internship out of town, have you nailed down where you're staying yet?

trayball23
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Re: Military Law

Postby trayball23 » Mon Apr 18, 2011 6:32 pm

Are there any internships in DC for 1L Marines in PLC law program

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WhatAboutBob
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Re: Military Law

Postby WhatAboutBob » Mon Apr 18, 2011 8:27 pm

howell wrote:So what are the dress codes for the different summer internships (if they differ)?

And for anyone doing a summer internship out of town, have you nailed down where you're staying yet?



Not terribly formal for Army. For men, khakis and button down shirts were the norm. Polos if it was particularly hot. Ties if we were making a field trip to court.

mrh769
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Re: Military Law

Postby mrh769 » Mon Apr 18, 2011 11:13 pm

hasmith wrote:
jess8328 wrote:Haha, not sure why you're so excited - we're all just going to get dinged. :)


Think positive thoughts!


YES!!! Positive thoughts! But, if you want to believe that you are getting dinged, then go for it. :D

jess8328
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Re: Military Law

Postby jess8328 » Tue Apr 19, 2011 1:01 am

mrh769 wrote:
hasmith wrote:
jess8328 wrote:Haha, not sure why you're so excited - we're all just going to get dinged. :)


Think positive thoughts!


YES!!! Positive thoughts! But, if you want to believe that you are getting dinged, then go for it. :D


Ok, I'll join in on the positive thoughts. What would we be without wishful thinking?

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Patrick Bateman
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Re: Military Law

Postby Patrick Bateman » Tue Apr 19, 2011 1:12 am

jess8328 wrote:
mrh769 wrote:
hasmith wrote:
jess8328 wrote:Haha, not sure why you're so excited - we're all just going to get dinged. :)


Think positive thoughts!


YES!!! Positive thoughts! But, if you want to believe that you are getting dinged, then go for it. :D


Ok, I'll join in on the positive thoughts. What would we be without wishful thinking?


While not looking to rein in your positive thoughts or mutual affirmation, these sorts of posts play hell on those of us that are subscribed to this thread and get an email with each reply.

And yes, I note the irony that writing this message will generate the very email I am complaining about.

nomargfan5
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Re: Military Law

Postby nomargfan5 » Tue Apr 19, 2011 8:53 am

Howell,

I did the Air Force Summer Internship in D.C this past summer. We were required to wear a suit and tie to work everyday.

mrh769
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Re: Military Law

Postby mrh769 » Wed Apr 20, 2011 3:55 pm

Navy JAG results are posted!

jess8328
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Re: Military Law

Postby jess8328 » Wed Apr 20, 2011 4:10 pm

Thanks for the heads up.

Another ding here. Anyone get it?

jess8328
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Re: Military Law

Postby jess8328 » Wed Apr 20, 2011 4:50 pm

RE: Navy JAG, from their FAQ:

"To which program should I apply? If you are either (1) a 2L or 3L, (2) a part-time law student within 2 years of graduation, or (3) a recent law school graduate who has not yet had the opportunity to take the first available bar exam, then you would apply to the Student Program (SP). If you are a licensed attorney, then you would apply to the Direct Appointment Program (DA)."

and

"What if I have graduated from law school but not passed a bar? If you have graduated but have not yet had an opportunity to take the first available bar, you would apply to the Student Program. If a bar exam has been offered and you have not taken it for whatever reason, or you did not pass the bar exam, then you are not eligible for any of our programs. You may become eligible to apply to the Direct Appointment Program after taking and passing a bar exam."

If I'm a graduating 3L, taking the bar in July, but won't have results back by the deadline, can I apply for the Student Program this fall?

cake
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Re: Military Law

Postby cake » Wed Apr 20, 2011 5:11 pm

jess8328 wrote:Thanks for the heads up.

Another ding here. Anyone get it?

I got a ding. Guess this fall will be round 3.

hasmith
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Re: Military Law

Postby hasmith » Wed Apr 20, 2011 8:21 pm

jess8328 wrote:RE: Navy JAG, from their FAQ:

"To which program should I apply? If you are either (1) a 2L or 3L, (2) a part-time law student within 2 years of graduation, or (3) a recent law school graduate who has not yet had the opportunity to take the first available bar exam, then you would apply to the Student Program (SP). If you are a licensed attorney, then you would apply to the Direct Appointment Program (DA)."

and

"What if I have graduated from law school but not passed a bar? If you have graduated but have not yet had an opportunity to take the first available bar, you would apply to the Student Program. If a bar exam has been offered and you have not taken it for whatever reason, or you did not pass the bar exam, then you are not eligible for any of our programs. You may become eligible to apply to the Direct Appointment Program after taking and passing a bar exam."

If I'm a graduating 3L, taking the bar in July, but won't have results back by the deadline, can I apply for the Student Program this fall?



In your case, unfortunately, I don't think you could apply to either program. You would have taken the bar, and technically speaking would not have passed it yet (you would, presumably, not have failed either). I think you would have to apply to the Direct Appointment program, once you pass.

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Rocky Estoppel
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Re: Military Law

Postby Rocky Estoppel » Wed Apr 20, 2011 11:21 pm

cake wrote:
jess8328 wrote:Thanks for the heads up.

Another ding here. Anyone get it?

I got a ding. Guess this fall will be round 3.

Me too. :cry:

jess8328
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Re: Military Law

Postby jess8328 » Thu Apr 21, 2011 2:47 am

What's the best plan of action for a graduating 3L who has been dinged from Army and Navy twice? I plan to re-apply for Army in the fall, but is there anything else I could be/should be doing? I'm looking for civilian jobs, but haven't had any luck. (However, most of the jobs I'm interested in, DA's offices in California, don't allow you to apply until you've taken or passed the bar).

I also have an application in with Army Reserve JAG. It's supposed to be much less competitive. I'd be extremely happy if I could find a civilian job and be an Army reservist on the side. I also understand that there are opportunities to mobilize as a reservist, both within CONUS and to Iraq/Afghanistan.

Anyone else out there in the same situation? What are you planning to do?
Last edited by jess8328 on Thu Apr 21, 2011 11:23 am, edited 1 time in total.

hasmith
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Re: Military Law

Postby hasmith » Thu Apr 21, 2011 11:14 am

For the latest Navy JAG board: Over 575 applicants and 41 were professionally recommended, about a 7% selection rate. Not sure what the stats were for the previous board.

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LessThanLiz
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Re: Military Law

Postby LessThanLiz » Thu Apr 21, 2011 4:04 pm

I'm about to finish up my 1L year, and have learned that trial advocacy doesn't appeal to me much, at least not insofar as I'd love doing it day in and day out. I've settled on concentrating on estate planning. Having lurked in this thread since before being accepted into law school, I realize I'm asking a question to which I probably already know the answer, but humor me: this is likely something that would (a) knock me down a notch, if not entirely, in terms of competition, and; (b) even if I were to be accepted and ultimately receive a commission, I'd find a considerable portion of the work unappealing, yes? Are there no other paths besides your jack-of-all-trades lawyer?

Specifically, I was thinking Navy. It's a pity, because otherwise I think I would do well in the military, but I'd rather not put time and other resources into the application process and, potentially, that career path if it's not optimal for me or the Navy.
Last edited by LessThanLiz on Thu Apr 21, 2011 7:42 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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shepdawg
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Re: Military Law

Postby shepdawg » Thu Apr 21, 2011 6:21 pm

jess8328 wrote:What's the best plan of action for a graduating 3L who has been dinged from Army and Navy twice? I plan to re-apply for Army in the fall, but is there anything else I could be/should be doing? I'm looking for civilian jobs, but haven't had any luck. (However, most of the jobs I'm interested in, DA's offices in California, don't allow you to apply until you've taken or passed the bar).

I also have an application in with Army Reserve JAG. It's supposed to be much less competitive. I'd be extremely happy if I could find a civilian job and be an Army reservist on the side. I also understand that there are opportunities to mobilize as a reservist, both within CONUS and to Iraq/Afghanistan.

Anyone else out there in the same situation? What are you planning to do?

It seems like if you're having trouble getting a civilian job, you're going to have 2x more trouble getting a JAG job. All the services, besides the Marines right now, are way more selective than private employers. On my end I was able to get many paid private offers for my 1L internship in the private sector, but only made it to the alternates list for the Army 1L internship.

You should apply for the Marines. They're taking some people from my school who are at the bottom of the curve and probably won't even get an unpaid job after graduation.

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Patrick Bateman
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Re: Military Law

Postby Patrick Bateman » Thu Apr 21, 2011 6:58 pm

shepdawg wrote:
jess8328 wrote:What's the best plan of action for a graduating 3L who has been dinged from Army and Navy twice? I plan to re-apply for Army in the fall, but is there anything else I could be/should be doing? I'm looking for civilian jobs, but haven't had any luck. (However, most of the jobs I'm interested in, DA's offices in California, don't allow you to apply until you've taken or passed the bar).

I also have an application in with Army Reserve JAG. It's supposed to be much less competitive. I'd be extremely happy if I could find a civilian job and be an Army reservist on the side. I also understand that there are opportunities to mobilize as a reservist, both within CONUS and to Iraq/Afghanistan.

Anyone else out there in the same situation? What are you planning to do?

It seems like if you're having trouble getting a civilian job, you're going to have 2x more trouble getting a JAG job. All the services, besides the Marines right now, are way more selective than private employers. On my end I was able to get many paid private offers for my 1L internship in the private sector, but only made it to the alternates list for the Army 1L internship.

You should apply for the Marines. They're taking some people from my school who are at the bottom of the curve and probably won't even get an unpaid job after graduation.


Having spent my deployment with a number of Marine officers, to include JAGs, I think your dismissal of USMC JAG is ill founded and disrespectful. Just as the JAG Corps at large has significantly different hiring patterns/requirements/preferences when compared to traditional BigLaw, USMC JAG, as a subset, is looking for a very specific sort of person. As any JAG can tell you, grades are not everything when it comes to selection. We are perhaps the only institution that gives any true attention to the full person concept. Marines are not normal - that is something I mean in the most positive possible sense. Their training (OCS, TBS) and mission are not something your average (or even exceptional) law student can handle. As a result, their selection process has to be more exact than even USAF/USN/USA.

jess8328
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Re: Military Law

Postby jess8328 » Thu Apr 21, 2011 8:29 pm

shepdawg wrote:
jess8328 wrote:What's the best plan of action for a graduating 3L who has been dinged from Army and Navy twice? I plan to re-apply for Army in the fall, but is there anything else I could be/should be doing? I'm looking for civilian jobs, but haven't had any luck. (However, most of the jobs I'm interested in, DA's offices in California, don't allow you to apply until you've taken or passed the bar).

I also have an application in with Army Reserve JAG. It's supposed to be much less competitive. I'd be extremely happy if I could find a civilian job and be an Army reservist on the side. I also understand that there are opportunities to mobilize as a reservist, both within CONUS and to Iraq/Afghanistan.

Anyone else out there in the same situation? What are you planning to do?

It seems like if you're having trouble getting a civilian job, you're going to have 2x more trouble getting a JAG job. All the services, besides the Marines right now, are way more selective than private employers. On my end I was able to get many paid private offers for my 1L internship in the private sector, but only made it to the alternates list for the Army 1L internship.

You should apply for the Marines. They're taking some people from my school who are at the bottom of the curve and probably won't even get an unpaid job after graduation.


The reason I've had such a hard time getting a civilian job is that I'm focusing on government jobs in California and hiring has dropped off precipitously in this economy. Additionally, the vast majority of hiring is done post bar. So I've only been able to apply to a small number of positions. I have always been JAG/government minded and did not do my school's OCI for firm jobs.

I also don't think that's a fair assessment of the Marines. I have several friends who have recently gone through OCS and they are all very high speed people.

The reason I haven't applied to the Marines is the ~30% fail rate at OCS. I'm afraid of getting injured or not getting through for whatever reason, then being stuck jobless with loan payments to make. Am I just being overly risk averse or is this something I should take more seriously?
Last edited by jess8328 on Fri Apr 22, 2011 1:48 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Esquire
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Re: Military Law

Postby Esquire » Fri Apr 22, 2011 9:31 am

shepdawg wrote:It seems like if you're having trouble getting a civilian job, you're going to have 2x more trouble getting a JAG job. All the services, besides the Marines right now, are way more selective than private employers. On my end I was able to get many paid private offers for my 1L internship in the private sector, but only made it to the alternates list for the Army 1L internship.

You should apply for the Marines. They're taking some people from my school who are at the bottom of the curve and probably won't even get an unpaid job after graduation.

This is nonsense and disrespectful to USMC JAGs. The Marines use a different measure when selecting JAGs and not many law students could cut it. In fact, I'd argue it's more selective than the other branches. Grades aren't the only thing that matters when you're talking about the JAG Corps, any branch.

jess8328
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Re: Military Law

Postby jess8328 » Wed Apr 27, 2011 4:10 pm

Anyone else apply for the April 15th Army Reserve board? I submitted my application over a month ago, but I'm still Under Completeness Review. It never took this long for my active duty applications' statuses to change to Pending Board Decision.

upnorthguy
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Re: Military Law

Postby upnorthguy » Thu Apr 28, 2011 9:40 am

jess8328 wrote:Anyone else apply for the April 15th Army Reserve board? I submitted my application over a month ago, but I'm still Under Completeness Review. It never took this long for my active duty applications' statuses to change to Pending Board Decision.


I just looked any mine now says "Needs Corrections." Haven't heard any details yet.

Additional info:
I looked at the application instructions and found this guidance:

"If corrections are required, you will receive an email. Your application may remain at this status even after the application deadline has passed, as it takes time to review each application."

jess8328
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Re: Military Law

Postby jess8328 » Thu Apr 28, 2011 10:08 am

upnorthguy wrote:
jess8328 wrote:Anyone else apply for the April 15th Army Reserve board? I submitted my application over a month ago, but I'm still Under Completeness Review. It never took this long for my active duty applications' statuses to change to Pending Board Decision.


I just looked any mine now says "Needs Corrections." Haven't heard any details yet.

Additional info:
I looked at the application instructions and found this guidance:

"If corrections are required, you will receive an email. Your application may remain at this status even after the application deadline has passed, as it takes time to review each application."


Ah, good to know that they work out any issues with you. Thanks for the update.

jess8328
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Re: Military Law

Postby jess8328 » Fri Apr 29, 2011 12:48 am

Update from JARO on the reserve board: "RESULTS FROM THE APRIL 2011 RESERVE COMPONENT SELECTION BOARD WILL BE POSTED NO LATER THAN THE SECOND WEEK OF JUNE."

Nice. I thought it was going to be mid-July.

Journeybound
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Re: Military Law

Postby Journeybound » Fri Apr 29, 2011 11:20 pm

Hi. I'm beginning a paid AF JAG internship for my 2L summer next month, at Travis. I'm extremely excited about the opportunity. I stumbled into this thread, and I was hoping that you guys might help me out with some questions.

First, how competitive will it be for me to get an offer post-graduation with this internship? Does this give me a slight advantage? It looks like the acceptance rates are EXTREMELY low and competitive for commissions. I did 2 years of AFROTC in college, but I dropped out due to family emergency/marriage/desire to go to law school. I'm now at a T10, I love trial advocacy, and I'm interested in commissioning.

Also, what type of work is given to interns with the AF? Will I get any trial experience? Or will I be writing mostly memos....?

And lastly, what is the dress code like? Someone above said that in DC they had to wear a suit, is this standard at most basis for AF? I have a feeling that it will be strange not wearing a uniform when everyone else has one on.

Thanks! I look forward to hanging out in this thread with you all.




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