Military Law

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SocalPizza
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Re: Military Law

Postby SocalPizza » Tue Mar 08, 2011 9:00 pm

detrmnd88 wrote:With USAF JAG DAP acceptance rates as low as they are, how much do you all think a 2L AF Summer Internship will help with acceptance??


I have a friend who got into the 2L internship and had to ask himself the same question. Gone are the days when most of the interns are accepted via DAP. He decided to roll the dice and do the internship rather than lock something up with a firm and keep applying to DAP. 12 accepted out of 300 on the last board. Not great odds.

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unc0mm0n1
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Re: Military Law

Postby unc0mm0n1 » Tue Mar 08, 2011 9:28 pm

SocalPizza wrote:
detrmnd88 wrote:With USAF JAG DAP acceptance rates as low as they are, how much do you all think a 2L AF Summer Internship will help with acceptance??


I have a friend who got into the 2L internship and had to ask himself the same question. Gone are the days when most of the interns are accepted via DAP. He decided to roll the dice and do the internship rather than lock something up with a firm and keep applying to DAP. 12 accepted out of 300 on the last board. Not great odds.


It must be much better odds for the Army. We had some terrible lawyers and all the tier 4 schools were represented, yes even Cooley. Clearly we had some good ones as well but some of our guys I think it was the last chance for them to do legal work.

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SocalPizza
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Re: Military Law

Postby SocalPizza » Wed Mar 09, 2011 12:17 am

unc0mm0n1 wrote:
SocalPizza wrote:
detrmnd88 wrote:With USAF JAG DAP acceptance rates as low as they are, how much do you all think a 2L AF Summer Internship will help with acceptance??


I have a friend who got into the 2L internship and had to ask himself the same question. Gone are the days when most of the interns are accepted via DAP. He decided to roll the dice and do the internship rather than lock something up with a firm and keep applying to DAP. 12 accepted out of 300 on the last board. Not great odds.


It must be much better odds for the Army. We had some terrible lawyers and all the tier 4 schools were represented, yes even Cooley. Clearly we had some good ones as well but some of our guys I think it was the last chance for them to do legal work.


JAG is not BigLaw. Your school does not determine your chances. All the branches hire from a diversity of law schools.

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unc0mm0n1
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Re: Military Law

Postby unc0mm0n1 » Wed Mar 09, 2011 12:21 am

SocalPizza wrote:
unc0mm0n1 wrote:
SocalPizza wrote:
detrmnd88 wrote:With USAF JAG DAP acceptance rates as low as they are, how much do you all think a 2L AF Summer Internship will help with acceptance??


I have a friend who got into the 2L internship and had to ask himself the same question. Gone are the days when most of the interns are accepted via DAP. He decided to roll the dice and do the internship rather than lock something up with a firm and keep applying to DAP. 12 accepted out of 300 on the last board. Not great odds.


It must be much better odds for the Army. We had some terrible lawyers and all the tier 4 schools were represented, yes even Cooley. Clearly we had some good ones as well but some of our guys I think it was the last chance for them to do legal work.


JAG is not BigLaw. Your school does not determine your chances. All the branches hire from a diversity of law schools.


I understand that but if what the other posters are saying is true it seems that the Air Force is more selective. Dude I was in JAG for 5 yrs I understand it, I was just commenting on the low selection rates of the AF. But the AF is selective in all of their officers slots recently.

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Patrick Bateman
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Re: Military Law

Postby Patrick Bateman » Wed Mar 09, 2011 9:51 am

unc0mm0n1 wrote:
BruceWayne wrote:
detrmnd88 wrote:With USAF JAG DAP acceptance rates as low as they are, how much do you all think a 2L AF Summer Internship will help with acceptance??


How low are they? May I ask why USAF is your first choice?


I'm not going back in the military but I was a legal administrator with the Army and I'd go AF over Army any day. No 15 month deployments, Basically no legal assistance or best of all limited tax center. Plus the living conditions are better for the Air Force (if you get on post housing or are deployed).


The internship remains the single best way for a civilian DAP applicant to distinguish themselves and get selected. That said, it is no longer a guarantee for selection due to previously mentioned cut throat selection rates. To borrow from the LSAT, think of it as necessary but not sufficient. To be sure, there are non-interns that are being selected and interns that are dinged, but as a general rule, I would have to say that the interns that have a successful summer and a favorable SJA recommendation are going to be in the best shape. Again, this is for the pure civilians, not the prior-enlisted, etc. At this point, even highly qualified applicants with the right JAG credentials (vice BigLaw credentials) really need to be willing to endure at least 3-4 boards. Over the past 24 months, the boards are typically selecting 10-15 out of a 300+ pool. The April board was eliminated this year which means 10-15 less accessions than we usually take.

For clarification regarding the Air Force experience: we do a significant amount of legal assistance at the base legal office level. I cannot comment on how this compares to the Army but any base that is in a location favored by retirees will be pulling a fair amount of LA shifts. While I am at a very large base, our tax center is a full time position for a JAG, the civilian director, and two paralegals. While we do not have the 15 month deployments, the amount of 365s that are being tasked to the O-3s is rising considerably.

JP_Spungo
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Re: Military Law

Postby JP_Spungo » Wed Mar 09, 2011 5:21 pm

I'm currently applying to Air Force Reserve JAG and have noticed there are different categories: "Category A," which is unit reserve, and "Category B," which is individual reserve.

It appears the major difference between the categories is that individual reservists (deemed Individual Mobilized Augmentees) are attached to an active duty legal office for annual and inactive duty training; in contrast, unit reservists train and work with separate reserve units.

Does anyone here know: (1) if there are other important differences between the categories, and (2) whether an applicant is automatically applied for both or must choose between them? Thanks.

CP2323
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Re: Military Law

Postby CP2323 » Thu Mar 10, 2011 7:44 pm

I would love to be a Navy JAG but I doubt I could get a waiver for my disabilities since the Navy already broke me. :cry: (50% disabled veteran)

brownshoe
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Re: Military Law

Postby brownshoe » Thu Mar 10, 2011 10:02 pm

BruceWayne wrote:No JAGS on here any more?

Navy JAG here...whether you deploy during your first tour is a function of two things - whether you want to and whether there is a spot available. The billets are decreasing now because of the drawdown in Iraq. Bottom line is, if you don't want to go, you probably won't. Keep in mind, this will hurt you at promotion boards if you are trying to stay in. Let me know if you have other questions.

jess8328
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Re: Military Law

Postby jess8328 » Fri Mar 11, 2011 1:19 am

Pointless update: my Army Active Duty application just went from "Under Completeness Review" to "Pending Board Decision" today. I submitted on February 24th.

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SocalPizza
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Re: Military Law

Postby SocalPizza » Fri Mar 11, 2011 1:33 am

jess8328 wrote:Pointless update: my Army Active Duty application just went from "Under Completeness Review" to "Pending Board Decision" today. I submitted on February 24th.


I'm still under completeness review. But the application deadline disappeared. Weird.

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msmossie
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Re: Military Law

Postby msmossie » Fri Mar 11, 2011 3:04 am

I'll join in this pointless update. I'm still at Under Completeness Review as well. Of course, I submitted mine on March 1st.

It is great to know that there are many others stalking their application as well. I know it's really pointless to check every single day, but I can't seem to help myself. Once it is at Pending Board Decision I'll allow myself to relax a little. Just a little.

m4g1c0ff3
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Re: Military Law

Postby m4g1c0ff3 » Fri Mar 11, 2011 12:39 pm

hey all,
im applying to the navy and air force OYCP next year. what do you guys think about military legacies? does this help in selection? my father was a 22 year career airman and i definitely grew up in the military community? any thoughts>

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BruceWayne
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Re: Military Law

Postby BruceWayne » Fri Mar 11, 2011 2:31 pm

brownshoe wrote:
BruceWayne wrote:No JAGS on here any more?

Navy JAG here...whether you deploy during your first tour is a function of two things - whether you want to and whether there is a spot available. The billets are decreasing now because of the drawdown in Iraq. Bottom line is, if you don't want to go, you probably won't. Keep in mind, this will hurt you at promotion boards if you are trying to stay in. Let me know if you have other questions.


When you say first tour, how many tours are you generally assigned within your first 4 years? Thank you for taking the time to answer questions.

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Esquire
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Re: Military Law

Postby Esquire » Fri Mar 11, 2011 5:02 pm

m4g1c0ff3 wrote:hey all,
im applying to the navy and air force OYCP next year. what do you guys think about military legacies? does this help in selection? my father was a 22 year career airman and i definitely grew up in the military community? any thoughts>

Likely helps, definitely doesn't hurt.

detrmnd88
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Re: Military Law

Postby detrmnd88 » Fri Mar 11, 2011 5:14 pm

BruceWayne wrote:
detrmnd88 wrote:With USAF JAG DAP acceptance rates as low as they are, how much do you all think a 2L AF Summer Internship will help with acceptance??


How low are they? May I ask why USAF is your first choice?




I believe your first questions was answered already (around 4% thus far).

To answer your second, a close family member had a career in the USAF (pilot not JAG) and always spoke of it with pride and as though the USAF was his family (in many ways it was), so I was exposed to the AF at a young age and attended many AF commemoration events over the years. I enjoyed my experiences and the people I met in the AF. Two other family members are Navy (non JAG as well) so I was aware of, and interested in Navy JAG as well, but I decided to go for the 2L AF Summer Internship (b/c paid and wanted to answer the why AF question myself) and loved the people I worked with and the work I did. Also, when I realized you're basically doing military justice (crim law) the first 4 years no matter which branch you choose (generally of course, varies by base etc...) it pretty much solidified USAF as my first choice.

If you don't have a connection to a branch somehow, I would suggest looking into their missions and try to find people in a branch who has some thoughts (there's always someone that has been or knows someone)

detrmnd88
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Re: Military Law

Postby detrmnd88 » Fri Mar 11, 2011 5:26 pm

Patrick Bateman wrote:
unc0mm0n1 wrote:
BruceWayne wrote:
detrmnd88 wrote:With USAF JAG DAP acceptance rates as low as they are, how much do you all think a 2L AF Summer Internship will help with acceptance??


How low are they? May I ask why USAF is your first choice?


I'm not going back in the military but I was a legal administrator with the Army and I'd go AF over Army any day. No 15 month deployments, Basically no legal assistance or best of all limited tax center. Plus the living conditions are better for the Air Force (if you get on post housing or are deployed).


The internship remains the single best way for a civilian DAP applicant to distinguish themselves and get selected. That said, it is no longer a guarantee for selection due to previously mentioned cut throat selection rates. To borrow from the LSAT, think of it as necessary but not sufficient. To be sure, there are non-interns that are being selected and interns that are dinged, but as a general rule, I would have to say that the interns that have a successful summer and a favorable SJA recommendation are going to be in the best shape. Again, this is for the pure civilians, not the prior-enlisted, etc. At this point, even highly qualified applicants with the right JAG credentials (vice BigLaw credentials) really need to be willing to endure at least 3-4 boards. Over the past 24 months, the boards are typically selecting 10-15 out of a 300+ pool. The April board was eliminated this year which means 10-15 less accessions than we usually take.

For clarification regarding the Air Force experience: we do a significant amount of legal assistance at the base legal office level. I cannot comment on how this compares to the Army but any base that is in a location favored by retirees will be pulling a fair amount of LA shifts. While I am at a very large base, our tax center is a full time position for a JAG, the civilian director, and two paralegals. While we do not have the 15 month deployments, the amount of 365s that are being tasked to the O-3s is rising considerably.



Thank you for your response! I was told when I was a 2L AF Intern I would likely have to go through a few boards so I am expecting that, but I was wondering if there is a point where a No is a NO and you should put AF JAG in the "lost cause" box, i.e., 6,8, 10 boards later...???

Also, do you know if already being admitted to a Bar vs. still being in school will have an effect on board admissions? (assuming the Bar admitted person would likely be sent to the next COT vs. the student would have to wait quite a few months, post grad, post Bar results).

brownshoe
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Re: Military Law

Postby brownshoe » Fri Mar 11, 2011 8:51 pm

BruceWayne wrote:When you say first tour, how many tours are you generally assigned within your first 4 years? Thank you for taking the time to answer questions.

First tour is anywhere from 2 to 3 years. Most people do their IAs (if they do one) during that time or between their first and second tour. In the Navy, it's rare for second tour LTs to deploy because they are often in SJA jobs where they are a one-lawyer show - so they can't leave.

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scBlueDevil
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Re: Military Law

Postby scBlueDevil » Fri Mar 11, 2011 9:16 pm

brownshoe, do you know if phone calls went out today to Navy JAGC intern selects?

cake
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Re: Military Law

Postby cake » Fri Mar 11, 2011 10:11 pm

Eagle said that Navy JAG results from the spring board were out 4/26 last year. Does anyone know if this year's results will be earlier/later?

m4g1c0ff3
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Re: Military Law

Postby m4g1c0ff3 » Fri Mar 11, 2011 11:18 pm

@ scBlueDevil

i dont think anything has gone out yet. i was waiting for a response about the navy internship and i have heard nothing as well. my guess is they just got pushed back some more. thats what im hoping for?

arb44
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Re: Military Law

Postby arb44 » Fri Mar 11, 2011 11:30 pm

No phone call, but I did get an email acceptance today for the Navy JAGC summer internship.

I don't know anyone else who applied, though, so I can't help much more than that.

Loaflunk
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Re: Military Law

Postby Loaflunk » Sat Mar 12, 2011 2:31 am

I got the the acceptance through email as well

m4g1c0ff3
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Re: Military Law

Postby m4g1c0ff3 » Sat Mar 12, 2011 8:15 am

yeah i definitely havent gotten anything. i dont know if they are staggered or if they are just going to give all the no people an email on monday, or an email period.
lamee

cake
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Re: Military Law

Postby cake » Sat Mar 12, 2011 10:56 am

cake wrote:Eagle said that Navy JAG results from the spring board were out 4/26 last year. Does anyone know if this year's results will be earlier/later?

Just to clarify, I mean the Student Program. The application deadline isn't for another week, so I'm pretty sure we won't have decisions yet ;)

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ReelectClayDavis
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Re: Military Law

Postby ReelectClayDavis » Sat Mar 12, 2011 1:46 pm

Hi all,

Does the Army allow interested students to start applying before graduating from law school; not for the intern program, but for active duty service that commences after graduation from law school?

What I have in mind is a program equivalent to the Navy JAG Student Program (SP) or the Air Force One Year/Two Year Graduate programs. Not seeing any obvious references in the online Army materials to anything comparable.

If there is no program along the lines I am thinking of, what is the earliest one can apply to active duty Army JAG boards? I assume there are earlier opportunities than having to wait until you pass the bar?

Thanks for your replies.




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