Military Law

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Baylan
Posts: 356
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Re: Military Law

Postby Baylan » Fri Jan 07, 2011 6:12 pm

Depressingly, after my interview today, I would be skeptical if I was selected. I felt off balance the entire interview, nothing seemed to go well, and I didn't feel any rapport building with my interviewer. Sad, but the worst part was the (quite lengthy) drive home. Good luck to any applications, but I'm already looking forward to an OYCP application next year.

boston
Posts: 14
Joined: Thu Apr 08, 2010 5:19 pm

Re: Military Law

Postby boston » Fri Jan 07, 2011 6:20 pm

According to the JAG website, the 2L intern list is delayed.

babyt8_99
Posts: 46
Joined: Mon Dec 29, 2008 4:21 pm

Re: Military Law

Postby babyt8_99 » Fri Jan 07, 2011 7:05 pm

boston wrote:According to the JAG website, the 2L intern list is delayed.


I saw that! I contact my DSJA and all he could give me was "soon". The active list came out 2 days ago and was just posted today. So maybe Monday?!?!?!

sylvernight
Posts: 31
Joined: Mon Nov 29, 2010 7:19 pm

Re: Military Law

Postby sylvernight » Fri Jan 07, 2011 7:13 pm

Baylan wrote:Depressingly, after my interview today, I would be skeptical if I was selected. I felt off balance the entire interview, nothing seemed to go well, and I didn't feel any rapport building with my interviewer. Sad, but the worst part was the (quite lengthy) drive home. Good luck to any applications, but I'm already looking forward to an OYCP application next year.


Hey, this happened to me when I applied two years ago. I had a great package, and I'm pretty sure my so-so interview was why I wasn't selected. Maybe it has something to do with nerves from all the hype leading up to it, but this time, I'm making sure I'm prepared. I'm even having a friend do a mock-interview with me beforehand. Good luck to you.

boston
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Re: Military Law

Postby boston » Fri Jan 07, 2011 8:55 pm

babyt8_99 wrote:
boston wrote:According to the JAG website, the 2L intern list is delayed.


I saw that! I contact my DSJA and all he could give me was "soon". The active list came out 2 days ago and was just posted today. So maybe Monday?!?!?!


I would guess sometime next week. Getting into the internship is definitively a longshot for me but it will be nice just to know for sure.

jess8328
Posts: 123
Joined: Fri Sep 10, 2010 9:53 am

Re: Military Law

Postby jess8328 » Fri Jan 07, 2011 8:59 pm

Didn't get Army. Going to get another letter of rec. and tweak my essay. Anyone know if you can re-interview? Or if you have to? I definitely will if you can. I know Navy doesn't let you since the interview is good for a whole year.

babyt8_99
Posts: 46
Joined: Mon Dec 29, 2008 4:21 pm

Re: Military Law

Postby babyt8_99 » Fri Jan 07, 2011 9:41 pm

boston wrote:
babyt8_99 wrote:
boston wrote:According to the JAG website, the 2L intern list is delayed.


I saw that! I contact my DSJA and all he could give me was "soon". The active list came out 2 days ago and was just posted today. So maybe Monday?!?!?!


I would guess sometime next week. Getting into the internship is definitively a longshot for me but it will be nice just to know for sure.


Just noticed I can't type tonight either....that obviously was meant to say "I CONTACTED..."

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TheLegalBeagle
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Re: Military Law

Postby TheLegalBeagle » Sat Jan 08, 2011 12:54 pm

Hi everybody! I'm a freshman in a private university right now, and I'm hoping to get into JAG after law school. The two branches that I'm most interested in are Navy and AF. I have a few questions:

1. Do you have to be a world class swimmer to be in Navy JAG, and how hard are the swimming tests? I'm not the best swimmer (come to think of it, I couldn't swim if my life depended on it!) If I learn to swim from now until then, will I pass the tests easily?
2. Which one is easier to get into, Navy or AF? I'd love to be in Navy JAG, but I've also heard that the selection rate is less than 20%; is AF any better?
3. Do you do basically the same type of legal work in Navy and AF JAG?
4. Would going to a T-14 law school like Georgetown (my dream school) increase my chances of getting in?
5. What are your chances of getting your first choice of duty station in Navy or AF JAG?

I know these are a lot of questions for someone like me so early on in my education, but I'm really interested in being a JAG. Many thanks in advance for all the helpful answers!

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Mroberts3
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Re: Military Law

Postby Mroberts3 » Sat Jan 08, 2011 3:02 pm

TheLegalBeagle wrote:Hi everybody! I'm a freshman in a private university right now, and I'm hoping to get into JAG after law school. The two branches that I'm most interested in are Navy and AF. I have a few questions:

1. Do you have to be a world class swimmer to be in Navy JAG, and how hard are the swimming tests? I'm not the best swimmer (come to think of it, I couldn't swim if my life depended on it!) If I learn to swim from now until then, will I pass the tests easily?
2. Which one is easier to get into, Navy or AF? I'd love to be in Navy JAG, but I've also heard that the selection rate is less than 20%; is AF any better?
3. Do you do basically the same type of legal work in Navy and AF JAG?
4. Would going to a T-14 law school like Georgetown (my dream school) increase my chances of getting in?
5. What are your chances of getting your first choice of duty station in Navy or AF JAG?

I know these are a lot of questions for someone like me so early on in my education, but I'm really interested in being a JAG. Many thanks in advance for all the helpful answers!


I'm only a first year law student and haven't even been selected for the JAG program I'm applying to, so take this with a grain of salt (and wait for Patrick Bateman to give you better info).

I would say this early on focus on getting the best grades you can, do well on the LSAT in a few years, and make yourself a well rounded person (ie get good grades and also do a sport and/or community service). School rank does not matter for JAG, but you still want the highest GPA/LSAT you can get (the only thing that matters for admissions) because employment prospects are better at higher ranked schools and you can get scholarship money from lower ranked schools.

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Mroberts3
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Re: Military Law

Postby Mroberts3 » Sat Jan 08, 2011 3:04 pm

Baylan wrote:Depressingly, after my interview today, I would be skeptical if I was selected. I felt off balance the entire interview, nothing seemed to go well, and I didn't feel any rapport building with my interviewer. Sad, but the worst part was the (quite lengthy) drive home. Good luck to any applications, but I'm already looking forward to an OYCP application next year.


Sorry to hear about that, Baylan. I have my interview on Tuesday and haven't been nervous about it until a few days ago when I realized how close it was. I'm trying really hard to manage expectations at this point by just assuming I'll be an OYCP applicant next year, but its hard not dream about getting selected...

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Rotor
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Re: Military Law

Postby Rotor » Sat Jan 08, 2011 11:21 pm

TheLegalBeagle wrote:1. Do you have to be a world class swimmer to be in Navy JAG, and how hard are the swimming tests? I'm not the best swimmer (come to think of it, I couldn't swim if my life depended on it!) If I learn to swim from now until then, will I pass the tests easily?
The swim test isn't very challenging, but if you aren't comfortable in the water, you should become so. The test for third class swimmer (the minimum for most jobs in the Navy-- including JAG I'm pretty sure). It's a 50m swim any stroke and five minutes of survival floating. You don't have to pass on Day 1. You will get some instruction before the test.
TheLegalBeagle wrote: 3. Do you do basically the same type of legal work in Navy and AF JAG?

I am not a JAG, but have worked with many and they had a common thread early in their
careers. As a junior Navy JAG, you'll likely be assigned to a regional legal services office, helping deploying sailors get their affairs in order and/or doing court martial prosecution or defense. PB or some other AF JAG will be able to explain their side, but my impression is the AF diversity of assignment is broader (to base legal etc.)
TheLegalBeagle wrote:5. What are your chances of getting your first choice of duty station in Navy or AF JAG?
You get to ask, but the top concern is needs of the Navy. If you ask for major fleet areas, you stand a good chance (Norfolk, San Diego, PacNW, Jacksonville and possibly Pearl Hbr or maybe even Japan/Naples/Bahrain). If you want to go to a more esoteric Navy base (e.g. the WV telcom facility) probably not.

Good luck (when you finally get there).

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Esquire
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Re: Military Law

Postby Esquire » Sun Jan 09, 2011 12:24 pm

What did most do between graduating and starting the job?

Next, if my bar results come out in November and I start in February, I'd like to earn some money between then. Hmm.

Texan09
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Re: Military Law

Postby Texan09 » Mon Jan 10, 2011 1:08 am

Baylan wrote:
allAF wrote:
sylvernight wrote:
Baylan wrote:It'd be a lot easier if they just directly linked to the forms from the JAG Recruiting website... Which is where I got many of the forms, on the old website, they were directly available.


Completely agreed. I wish they would go back to the old format too; that intro drives me nuts.


These forms ARE directly available for OYCP and GLP applicants. They're just in a different place. I literally just did this to make sure it worked, and it's all directly available from the JAG recruiting site. Under Apply and Active Duty Programs, and OYCP (although same is true for GLP): hit the yellow "Apply" on the left. Your computer will automatically download a PDF file. I did that, and when I open that downloaded file, there's a separate frame/window/box thingy that shows up at the bottom of the PDF document that has ALL of the needed AF documents right there. Just click on them and they open right up. In other words, JAG was clever and made it so streamlined that it was right at your fingertips the whole time. (The exception is for prior military.)

I have a Mac, so maybe it doesn't work like this on PCs, but I doubt it. This is the government we're talking about here, and they don't speak Mac. I am absolutely not the most computer savvy person (see my early reference to "thingy"). Surely I'm not the only one who has figured this out. You shouldn't have to go hunting around the internet for forms. Situational awareness.

As a side comment, if you happen to hear from the detachment that you are applying to for one of these AF programs that they currently have a cadet who is going through it, and they give you that cadet's contact information, it's a REALLY good idea to contact them BEFORE you interview. Give yourself every leg up that you possibly can for these programs. Competition is fierce for the AF right now - just ask any ROTC sophomore who is competing for a field training slot and has a 45% chance of getting selected (compared to 75% or higher in the past). There's a lot that we know and can share with you that can help you make a good decision and make your life a lot easier if (when?) you get accepted. I am dumbfounded by how often young people make such poor use of potential mentors and guides; instead they insist on reinventing the wheel when they don't have to and would be better served building off of someone else's previous work.

Sorry if this post comes across as a rant, but I am frankly sometimes shocked by things that I see JAG applicants fail to do that seem so simple or intuitive. Maybe I'm just old. :) Either way, best of luck to all GLP and OYCP applicants!


EDIT: Regarding the documents attached to the PDF - my computer automatically displays them at the bottom of that window. But after I looked at it again, I thought of some problems some of you may have encountered. Maybe you don't use Adobe, or maybe your program isn't preset to display the attachments. Then I could see how you can easily miss it. There's a paperclip thing at the bottom of the recent version of Adobe Acrobat Reader, and if you hit that, the attachments will show up on the bottom.


Bingo to your edit. The only thing that shows up using my default web browser (Chrome, so its not exactly off the map, either) is the non-official checklist. Given that my GLP interview is in a little less than 10 hours... Little late to be helpful, unfortunately.

Either way, the old style was much more easily understood. Sometimes we over technology ourselves, seems like this may be the case.


Chrome is your problem. I use Chrome day-to-day as well, but the AF does not. Open this link in Explorer and you should see all the form on the left.

--LinkRemoved--

Texan09
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Re: Military Law

Postby Texan09 » Mon Jan 10, 2011 1:12 am

Baylan wrote:Depressingly, after my interview today, I would be skeptical if I was selected. I felt off balance the entire interview, nothing seemed to go well, and I didn't feel any rapport building with my interviewer. Sad, but the worst part was the (quite lengthy) drive home. Good luck to any applications, but I'm already looking forward to an OYCP application next year.


Sorry to hear that Baylan. My GLP interview is tomorrow. Any unexpected questions you think another SJA may ask?

Also, for anyone to answer: I noticed a minor typo on my resume after I submitted my packet (I had to submit my packet before they would schedule the interview), and I plan on pointing it out to the SJA with a corrected version. Is this a bad idea? Should I just ride it out and hope it's unnoticed or so minor that they do not care?

Baylan
Posts: 356
Joined: Tue Jun 09, 2009 4:26 pm

Re: Military Law

Postby Baylan » Mon Jan 10, 2011 1:30 am

Texan09 wrote:
Baylan wrote:Depressingly, after my interview today, I would be skeptical if I was selected. I felt off balance the entire interview, nothing seemed to go well, and I didn't feel any rapport building with my interviewer. Sad, but the worst part was the (quite lengthy) drive home. Good luck to any applications, but I'm already looking forward to an OYCP application next year.


Sorry to hear that Baylan. My GLP interview is tomorrow. Any unexpected questions you think another SJA may ask?

Also, for anyone to answer: I noticed a minor typo on my resume after I submitted my packet (I had to submit my packet before they would schedule the interview), and I plan on pointing it out to the SJA with a corrected version. Is this a bad idea? Should I just ride it out and hope it's unnoticed or so minor that they do not care?



Expect to be put off balance a few times, there are some questions you should expect no matter what: What is your leadership experience? What do you think about deployments? Workout regimen? Etc. All this type of stuff is explicit and clear and you should have polished answers.

I was not expecting to be directly asked about each instance of marijuana use that I disclosed. I was asked about what was one trait that I would change, and how, and when pressed, I used an overly personal example that didn't illustrate well how I'd improved on that trait over time. You're going to be put off balance a few times, and I think that is part of the interview process. As a GLP candidate, it was really rough to run through all the legal experience questions and essentially saying, "I have no legal experience." As the SJA ran through the list of 5-6 questions that either JAX provides or he uses for DAP interviews. Be ready for it, and don't get too rattled by it. I think it bothered me and it likely showed during the interview. Good luck, and I hope you get this before your interview in the morning.

In my retrospective here, GLP applicants are in pretty tough spots. I was interviewed before I had any grades, I have taken one set of classes, and have not written or argued my appellate brief. It is very difficult to show that you have any competence in the law in an interview situation, which I feel like is a distinct disadvantage for many GLP applicants, but this may be offset by the Detachment interview and that you're willing to commit to two years of ROTC work prior to commissioning.

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Patrick Bateman
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Re: Military Law

Postby Patrick Bateman » Mon Jan 10, 2011 10:39 am

TheLegalBeagle wrote:Hi everybody! I'm a freshman in a private university right now, and I'm hoping to get into JAG after law school. The two branches that I'm most interested in are Navy and AF. I have a few questions:

1. Do you have to be a world class swimmer to be in Navy JAG, and how hard are the swimming tests? I'm not the best swimmer (come to think of it, I couldn't swim if my life depended on it!) If I learn to swim from now until then, will I pass the tests easily?
2. Which one is easier to get into, Navy or AF? I'd love to be in Navy JAG, but I've also heard that the selection rate is less than 20%; is AF any better?
3. Do you do basically the same type of legal work in Navy and AF JAG?
4. Would going to a T-14 law school like Georgetown (my dream school) increase my chances of getting in?
5. What are your chances of getting your first choice of duty station in Navy or AF JAG?

I know these are a lot of questions for someone like me so early on in my education, but I'm really interested in being a JAG. Many thanks in advance for all the helpful answers!



From the USAF perspective:

1. Obviously no swimming requirements with us.

2. Selection rates in all services are south of 10% these days. Navy is different from Air Force as you generally have to be picked up in your 2L – there are very few direct commissions for USN. Most of USAF JAG is commissioned through the Direct Appointment Program which had around a 4% selection rate for the last board.

3. I don’t think anyone can really answer this no one has worked in both services as a junior JAG. I’m in a joint deployment right now under a Navy command and the Navy JAGs here all appear to have had more focused assignments – they spent a year doing legal assistance, then a year doing trial defense, then a year prosecuting, etc. AF can be a little more scattered – your first four years at base legal (not including if you are selected as an area defense counsel) are a bit more scattered. Your are entirely fungible and can bounce around from civil law and military justice billets. Bases also vary widely. Some large bases can be highly specialized, with one JAG running claims, another running admin law, another running Article 15s, another running admin discharges, etc. Smaller bases will just have 2 JAGs doing all of civil law and another two doing all of military justice. Some bases have a concentration on civil law or military justice depending on the mission they support (fighters/bombers, training, space, material, etc).

4. No. Though it never hurts to have a big name behind you, especially if you end up separating prior to your 20 year mark. That said, taking on a ton of debt to get the T14 name really does not make sense for the JAG Corps.

5. Very small. You can always ask, but everyone wants to go to the nice places. JAX really does work with you to put you somewhere you want to be, but at the end of the day, you are a fungible cog in a very big wheel and the needs of Big Blue Air Force will always take priority.

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howell
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Re: Military Law

Postby howell » Mon Jan 10, 2011 11:00 am

AF summer internship calls seem to be going out.

Since most people are likely to not get sent to a base near where they're currently living, does anybody have any suggestions on finding cheap housing near (or on, if that's even possible) a base? I'm thinking more of something dirt cheap I could live out of M-F.

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SocalPizza
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Re: Military Law

Postby SocalPizza » Mon Jan 10, 2011 12:06 pm

howell wrote:AF summer internship calls seem to be going out.

Since most people are likely to not get sent to a base near where they're currently living, does anybody have any suggestions on finding cheap housing near (or on, if that's even possible) a base? I'm thinking more of something dirt cheap I could live out of M-F.


Is it safe to assume you got it? Congrats if so.

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howell
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Re: Military Law

Postby howell » Mon Jan 10, 2011 12:34 pm

SocalPizza wrote:
howell wrote:AF summer internship calls seem to be going out.

Since most people are likely to not get sent to a base near where they're currently living, does anybody have any suggestions on finding cheap housing near (or on, if that's even possible) a base? I'm thinking more of something dirt cheap I could live out of M-F.


Is it safe to assume you got it? Congrats if so.


I did, thank you.

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Rocky Estoppel
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Re: Military Law

Postby Rocky Estoppel » Mon Jan 10, 2011 12:36 pm

Got accepted into the Air Force Internship via phone call. It really sucks that I had to turn it down because it seriously was a number 1 choice for me this coming summer but I had already committed to working in a DA's office. The office even called to double check that I was going to be there this summer because they were about to disappoint hundreds of applicants. I wouldn't feel right calling and backing out, plus it could be a place I might want to work if JAG doesn't work out. I felt so sick in my stomach turning down the offer and I really wish they called about 2 weeks earlier.

I still plan to apply to Active Duty. For those that might know...any idea if turning down the internship will have an effect on my chances when applying? JAG still remains my number 1 choice upon graduation.

allAF
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Re: Military Law

Postby allAF » Mon Jan 10, 2011 9:28 pm

@Baylan -

I'm sorry your GLP interview was not what you hoped for. If it makes any difference, pretty much EVERYONE interviewing for the GLP is in the same boat as you. Most won't have any grades posted. Most will have very little, if any, previous legal experience. Don't let that aspect of it get you down.

Baylan
Posts: 356
Joined: Tue Jun 09, 2009 4:26 pm

Re: Military Law

Postby Baylan » Tue Jan 11, 2011 12:17 am

allAF wrote:@Baylan -

I'm sorry your GLP interview was not what you hoped for. If it makes any difference, pretty much EVERYONE interviewing for the GLP is in the same boat as you. Most won't have any grades posted. Most will have very little, if any, previous legal experience. Don't let that aspect of it get you down.


Thanks, but those parts of my interview were just a little bit of what rattled me, not the whole story. Don't want to out myself or talk too much about the parts that made me think it was a poor interview. As I said earlier in the thread... Assuming I am not selected, I am hopeful for the future and an OYCP application next year.

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Esquire
Posts: 145
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Re: Military Law

Postby Esquire » Tue Jan 11, 2011 12:48 am

I know about the Army's SLRP. But I could have sworn there was a $60k bonus in addition to the $65k SLRP. IIRC, it was $60k broken into three parts for reupping after your initial 4 years. I can't seem to find that information anymore. I can find it for the Navy but not the Army. Can anyone enlighten me?

edit: Bingo, found it: --LinkRemoved--

After completing the initial service obligation of four years, Judge Advocates
are eligible for Judge Advocate Continuation Pay (JACP) in the amount of
$60,000 payable biannually in two $30,000 installments in return for an
additional service obligation of four years.5
Judge Advocate majors who successfully complete the graduate course at The
Judge Advocate General’s Legal Center and School (TJAGLCS) are eligible for
the Critical Skills Retention Bonus (CSRB). This $60,000 bonus is payable in
increments of $10,000, $20,000, and $30,000 annually in return for a four-year
service obligation. This obligation runs consecutively with other service
obligations from the FLEP program or JACP (see above).

Texan09
Posts: 74
Joined: Tue Mar 09, 2010 5:06 pm

Re: Military Law

Postby Texan09 » Tue Jan 11, 2011 1:50 am

Baylan wrote:
Texan09 wrote:
Baylan wrote:Depressingly, after my interview today, I would be skeptical if I was selected. I felt off balance the entire interview, nothing seemed to go well, and I didn't feel any rapport building with my interviewer. Sad, but the worst part was the (quite lengthy) drive home. Good luck to any applications, but I'm already looking forward to an OYCP application next year.


Sorry to hear that Baylan. My GLP interview is tomorrow. Any unexpected questions you think another SJA may ask?

Also, for anyone to answer: I noticed a minor typo on my resume after I submitted my packet (I had to submit my packet before they would schedule the interview), and I plan on pointing it out to the SJA with a corrected version. Is this a bad idea? Should I just ride it out and hope it's unnoticed or so minor that they do not care?



Expect to be put off balance a few times, there are some questions you should expect no matter what: What is your leadership experience? What do you think about deployments? Workout regimen? Etc. All this type of stuff is explicit and clear and you should have polished answers.

I was not expecting to be directly asked about each instance of marijuana use that I disclosed. I was asked about what was one trait that I would change, and how, and when pressed, I used an overly personal example that didn't illustrate well how I'd improved on that trait over time. You're going to be put off balance a few times, and I think that is part of the interview process. As a GLP candidate, it was really rough to run through all the legal experience questions and essentially saying, "I have no legal experience." As the SJA ran through the list of 5-6 questions that either JAX provides or he uses for DAP interviews. Be ready for it, and don't get too rattled by it. I think it bothered me and it likely showed during the interview. Good luck, and I hope you get this before your interview in the morning.

In my retrospective here, GLP applicants are in pretty tough spots. I was interviewed before I had any grades, I have taken one set of classes, and have not written or argued my appellate brief. It is very difficult to show that you have any competence in the law in an interview situation, which I feel like is a distinct disadvantage for many GLP applicants, but this may be offset by the Detachment interview and that you're willing to commit to two years of ROTC work prior to commissioning.


Sorry you had a bad interview. Mine was quite different. MY interviewer didn't ask any typical questions. She had read my package throughly and the questions were very 'me' specific. I think it went well, but who knows. I hope all the GLP applicants on this thread make it.

stevesmith11
Posts: 4
Joined: Mon Dec 07, 2009 12:07 pm

Re: Military Law

Postby stevesmith11 » Tue Jan 11, 2011 1:05 pm

Anybody have any clue when the 2L internship results will come out?




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