Military Law

(On Campus Interviews, Summer Associate positions, Firm Reviews, Tips, ...)
Forum rules
Anonymous Posting

Anonymous posting is only appropriate when you are revealing sensitive employment related information about a firm, job, etc. You may anonymously respond on topic to these threads. Unacceptable uses include: harassing another user, joking around, testing the feature, or other things that are more appropriate in the lounge.

Failure to follow these rules will get you outed, warned, or banned.
User avatar
Patrick Bateman
Posts: 595
Joined: Tue Feb 19, 2008 5:41 pm

Re: Military Law

Postby Patrick Bateman » Tue Nov 30, 2010 1:24 pm

sylvernight wrote:I've spent the past two days reading all these posts, and I'm actually surprised my two questions haven't been asked yet:

- Does anyone know anyone who has completed Air Force FLEP? I know all the requirements, and am getting ready to submit an application myself, but I would love to hear from someone with personal experience in the program.

- Does anyone know why the tuition limits for FLEP are so low (currently $16K/year, if I'm not mistaken?). I just got accepted to a state school with $30K/year tuition, and I'm worried I won't be able to go. I know academic scholarships can be used to bridge the gap, but why is the threshold so low to begin with? How many decent schools cost less than $16K?


You will likely have trouble finding an AF FLEPer on this board. JAX only picks up 2-10 a year, so they are pretty scarce. Most JAGs that come in as officers from a different AFSC are from ELP.

Your second question is a policy issue - JAX is the only really qualified body to answer that.

JOThompson
Posts: 1311
Joined: Sun Aug 02, 2009 3:16 am

Re: Military Law

Postby JOThompson » Tue Nov 30, 2010 1:25 pm

Has anyone here done ROTC? If so, how valuable do you think that experience will be in your JAG career?

User avatar
SocalPizza
Posts: 58
Joined: Mon Jun 22, 2009 6:40 pm

Re: Military Law

Postby SocalPizza » Tue Nov 30, 2010 2:20 pm

Anyone hear back about the Air Force summer internship yet? The last 2 years it seems like calls went out the week before Thanksgiving (2 years ago) and close to Christmas (last year). And how many spots\applicants are there generally?

User avatar
J-Rod
Posts: 508
Joined: Tue Oct 02, 2007 6:00 pm

Re: Military Law

Postby J-Rod » Tue Nov 30, 2010 2:37 pm

jess8328 wrote:I have nothing new to add. I'm just going crazy waiting for January. Army JAG is my dream job.



Hope you get it!

sylvernight
Posts: 31
Joined: Mon Nov 29, 2010 7:19 pm

Re: Military Law

Postby sylvernight » Tue Nov 30, 2010 3:01 pm

Capt Bateman - I was hoping with all the people on this board, that someone would at least have a friend of a friend or something. I don't suppose you know anyone? I'd also love to talk to an ELP-er, because I'm applying for that, too.

JOThompson - I did ROTC, and it really has nothing to do with being a JAG. ROTC is a (rather long) commissioning program, and you will learn a lot about your service and about leadership, but it won't give you any extra standing. The practical leadership experience will always be useful, but in general, ROTC is nothing like active duty.

Everyone else - refining my earlier question: Are there any decent law schools for under $16K/year?

jess8328
Posts: 123
Joined: Fri Sep 10, 2010 9:53 am

Re: Military Law

Postby jess8328 » Tue Nov 30, 2010 4:19 pm

sylvernight wrote:Everyone else - refining my earlier question: Are there any decent law schools for under $16K/year?


Not that I know of. Are you not willing to take out any loans?

sylvernight
Posts: 31
Joined: Mon Nov 29, 2010 7:19 pm

Re: Military Law

Postby sylvernight » Tue Nov 30, 2010 5:03 pm

I'm completely willing to take out loans, but the rules of FLEP forbid it. The school must either cost less than $16K/year, or the tuition must be supplemented by an academic scholarship. According to the website, and the JAG recruiter I've talked to, you can't even use personal funds or need-based scholarships. (Which is one reason I want to talk to a FLEPer, if possible. I'd like to see how they all did it).

What's really frustrating about this is that unless I get an academic scholarship from my first-choice school, I'll have to go to my second-choice school because they offered me a full ride (Both schools are T2, but on opposite ends of the spectrum).

Connelly
Posts: 164
Joined: Mon Oct 29, 2007 2:10 pm

Re: Military Law

Postby Connelly » Tue Nov 30, 2010 5:18 pm

sylvernight wrote:I'm completely willing to take out loans, but the rules of FLEP forbid it. The school must either cost less than $16K/year, or the tuition must be supplemented by an academic scholarship. According to the website, and the JAG recruiter I've talked to, you can't even use personal funds or need-based scholarships. (Which is one reason I want to talk to a FLEPer, if possible. I'd like to see how they all did it).

What's really frustrating about this is that unless I get an academic scholarship from my first-choice school, I'll have to go to my second-choice school because they offered me a full ride (Both schools are T2, but on opposite ends of the spectrum).


Seems like a really odd limitation if you're stuck with your state of residency. Your profile lists Texas as your residence. There, it looks like Texas Tech's tuition is just under $16k. FLEP is very competitive, so it's likely that many students that get accepted will end up with academic scholarships anyway (baseless speculation).

User avatar
SocalPizza
Posts: 58
Joined: Mon Jun 22, 2009 6:40 pm

Re: Military Law

Postby SocalPizza » Tue Nov 30, 2010 5:46 pm

You could always join the Mormon church then go to BYU law ($10k/yr for members of the LDS church).

sylvernight
Posts: 31
Joined: Mon Nov 29, 2010 7:19 pm

Re: Military Law

Postby sylvernight » Tue Nov 30, 2010 9:06 pm

Connelly - That's what I'm hoping for. I'll be completing my FAFSA early in January, so we'll see what happens.

SocalPizza - It's almost tempting, but I really don't think they'd want me.

I think, if nothing else works out, I'll go with the school that has the full ride. Assuming I even get FLEP; it's funny that it's slightly easier to get into law school than to get an JAG slot :wink:.

Baylan
Posts: 356
Joined: Tue Jun 09, 2009 4:26 pm

Re: Military Law

Postby Baylan » Tue Nov 30, 2010 9:26 pm

sylvernight wrote:Connelly - That's what I'm hoping for. I'll be completing my FAFSA early in January, so we'll see what happens.

SocalPizza - It's almost tempting, but I really don't think they'd want me.

I think, if nothing else works out, I'll go with the school that has the full ride. Assuming I even get FLEP; it's funny that it's slightly easier to get into law school than to get an JAG slot :wink:.


I think slightly is an understatement. JAG selections are a bit of an enigma. There are no numbers where you are clearly in, or clearly out.

Plus there are law schools that will take ANYONE.

owt
Posts: 37
Joined: Sun Aug 12, 2007 11:45 am

Re: Military Law

Postby owt » Wed Dec 01, 2010 2:26 pm

allAF wrote:
Baylan wrote:I have an interview with an ROTC detachment commander this Monday for the AF GLP Program. Any suggestions from those who have served, particularly in the AF, or have interviewed worked through this before?



You also get to PT twice a week with the Cadet Wing.



Only twice a week? I know the Chair Force is more laid back but c'mon. The Army does PT at least 3 times a week (sometimes 4).

Seriously though, congrats on getting picked for the ROTC/JAG thing. That sounds awesome.

Baylan
Posts: 356
Joined: Tue Jun 09, 2009 4:26 pm

Re: Military Law

Postby Baylan » Wed Dec 01, 2010 4:43 pm

owt wrote:
allAF wrote:
Baylan wrote:I have an interview with an ROTC detachment commander this Monday for the AF GLP Program. Any suggestions from those who have served, particularly in the AF, or have interviewed worked through this before?



You also get to PT twice a week with the Cadet Wing.



Only twice a week? I know the Chair Force is more laid back but c'mon. The Army does PT at least 3 times a week (sometimes 4).

Seriously though, congrats on getting picked for the ROTC/JAG thing. That sounds awesome.


The detachment that I interviewed with said that as I'm attending a school they have a crosstown agreement with, I would only have mandatory PT once a week and would likely have to fulfill my other PT requirement "on my own." Would have to attend all of the class sessions, however.

kaesch
Posts: 15
Joined: Wed Dec 01, 2010 7:02 pm

Re: Military Law

Postby kaesch » Wed Dec 01, 2010 8:24 pm

I spoke with the woman who heads the board of decisions for the Air Force JAG internship. She said that things are very backed up right now because as of Monday they still have not received all the documents from the personnel department. They can not schedule the board review until they have received all the completed files. Because of the late application due date and the holiday I think we will be looking at the end of December or sometime in January.

User avatar
SocalPizza
Posts: 58
Joined: Mon Jun 22, 2009 6:40 pm

Re: Military Law

Postby SocalPizza » Wed Dec 01, 2010 9:23 pm

kaesch wrote:I spoke with the woman who heads the board of decisions for the Air Force JAG internship. She said that things are very backed up right now because as of Monday they still have not received all the documents from the personnel department. They can not schedule the board review until they have received all the completed files. Because of the late application due date and the holiday I think we will be looking at the end of December or sometime in January.


Thanks for the update. Looks like I can go back to refreshing this page 3x a day instead of 10.

User avatar
Paichka
Posts: 287
Joined: Sat Mar 15, 2008 11:17 am

Re: Military Law

Postby Paichka » Thu Dec 02, 2010 8:17 pm

sylvernight wrote:I'm completely willing to take out loans, but the rules of FLEP forbid it. The school must either cost less than $16K/year, or the tuition must be supplemented by an academic scholarship. According to the website, and the JAG recruiter I've talked to, you can't even use personal funds or need-based scholarships. (Which is one reason I want to talk to a FLEPer, if possible. I'd like to see how they all did it).

What's really frustrating about this is that unless I get an academic scholarship from my first-choice school, I'll have to go to my second-choice school because they offered me a full ride (Both schools are T2, but on opposite ends of the spectrum).


It actually isn't that difficult to talk your school of choice into giving you money. You just have to be persistent. It helps if they have experience with the FLEP program. I'm an Army FLEPer at GW. My numbers were good, but not great -- 3.3/169 -- I think I got 7k out of them initially. After I got the scholarship email, I contacted the Dean of Admissions to explain my situation. I told them I really wanted to attend GW, but I couldn't unless they got the tuition below 20k (Army cap is slightly higher). I was told initially that they loved FLEPs, but that my numbers really weren't good enough to get any more money. I said, "That's great, is there anyone else I can talk to?" I ended up sending emails to several different people, and talking to the Dean of Admissions again a few more times. Each conversation, I just told them how GW was my first choice but I couldn't come unless I got more money. Finally, about a week before the deadline, I got a phone call where they told me they had found the money. I'm now a 2L, so I can say that persistence pays off.

The other thing that helps is if your school is familiar with the program. GW also has a program where, for LLMs, if a service sends a certain number of people, they get one free. I believe here it's 3 students, with the 4th student free. The FLEP students that go here have traditionally done really well, so there's that. If you're interested in going East Coast, I know that William & Mary is incredibly FLEP friendly -- most of each year's Army class goes there (10 or 12 people). You get automatic in-state tuition if you're on active duty, so tuition is just over 18k, I believe. That puts it below the Army's cap, which is why it's so popular with FLEPs. If you have the numbers to get in there, you may have luck getting them to throw you a few thousand dollars to bring tuition below 16k.

That has been my experience, anyway.

sylvernight
Posts: 31
Joined: Mon Nov 29, 2010 7:19 pm

Re: Military Law

Postby sylvernight » Fri Dec 03, 2010 5:53 am

Thanks for the advice, Paichka. I never thought about negotiating tuition, but it's worth a shot. I also just found out that UT has a Financial Aid Matching Program. I don't think they'll match my full ride because Baylor is not considered a close competitor, but I can possibly get them under $16K. I also decided to apply to at least one other school under the tuition limit, just in case.

crallen
Posts: 28
Joined: Fri Jan 15, 2010 10:20 am

Re: Military Law

Postby crallen » Mon Dec 06, 2010 11:30 am

Was anyone else around here granted (for this upcoming year OR previously) an educational delay from the Army? Our ed delay guy around here is really lost on this stuff and he has told me once that I will be going to drill during school and another time that I will not be going to drill.

Has anyone else gone this route who can give me some more exact details?

User avatar
theskippa10
Posts: 159
Joined: Thu Nov 08, 2007 3:01 pm

Re: Military Law

Postby theskippa10 » Mon Dec 06, 2010 11:32 am

one of my buddies at school is an Army ed delay. fro what I know he doesn't drill, but I will ask him later

crallen
Posts: 28
Joined: Fri Jan 15, 2010 10:20 am

Re: Military Law

Postby crallen » Mon Dec 06, 2010 11:41 am

That would be awesome... I have a couple different questions I wouldn't mind asking him... If he is cool with me maybe shooting him an e-mail or something, let me know, it would be greatly appreciated.

Baylan
Posts: 356
Joined: Tue Jun 09, 2009 4:26 pm

Re: Military Law

Postby Baylan » Wed Dec 08, 2010 4:13 pm

I just received a copy of the letter from the Detachment I interviewed with for GLP, and they rated me as Outstanding - Must Select. Pretty excited, and I'm hopeful that my interview will translate over when I have my full on SJA interview in January.

hasmith
Posts: 93
Joined: Thu Feb 08, 2007 6:56 am

Re: Military Law

Postby hasmith » Wed Dec 08, 2010 4:34 pm

Hope it works out.

kaesch
Posts: 15
Joined: Wed Dec 01, 2010 7:02 pm

Re: Military Law

Postby kaesch » Thu Dec 09, 2010 4:31 pm

Has anyone heard from any of the JAG internships? Anyone know when we are supposed to hear back by? The AF said it is going to be another month or so, but just wondering if anyone knows about any of the other branches. Thanks! Happy final studies to all of us!

User avatar
SocalPizza
Posts: 58
Joined: Mon Jun 22, 2009 6:40 pm

Re: Military Law

Postby SocalPizza » Thu Dec 09, 2010 9:13 pm

kaesch wrote:just wondering if anyone knows about any of the other branches.


Army Internship - --LinkRemoved-- (for 2Ls. The 1L link is on the page though.)

Baylan
Posts: 356
Joined: Tue Jun 09, 2009 4:26 pm

Re: Military Law

Postby Baylan » Thu Dec 09, 2010 11:01 pm

For my LoR's for my SJA interview, should I have them addressed to the SJA or the accessions committee?




Return to “Legal Employment”

Who is online

The online users are hidden on this forum.