Military Law

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helfer snooterbagon
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Re: Military Law

Postby helfer snooterbagon » Wed Sep 22, 2010 4:10 pm

I spent 6 years on Active Duty with the Navy. Typically, you can use a lot of leave when you are transferring between billets. You can usually work it out with your detailer to have your report date be significantly later than your depart date. Also, if your relief arrives early, you can usually take a lot of leave after you have completed turnover.

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Patrick Bateman
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Re: Military Law

Postby Patrick Bateman » Wed Sep 22, 2010 5:18 pm

thebiggdawg55 wrote:This question is specifically for Mr. Bateman or anyone else in this thread who is currently in any of the various military JAG programs:

The JAG websites make a big deal of the fact that you get 30 days of paid leave + 10 federal holidays every year. But what is the reality when it comes to using up your leave? Do you ever actually end up using it, or do you end up having to get cashed out for it because of deployments, assignments, or other obligations that prevent you from taking leave?

I have a friend who was an Army Airborne (not JAG, I know) who, when I brought up the 30 days of paid leave, responded by telling me he had 60 days of unused paid leave by the time he finished his 4 year stint.

Do you realistically ever use that leave up?


"Mr" Bateman? I'm a Captain; I work for a living. :twisted:

At any given point, I usually have a 20 day balance +/-. I've never had an issue requesting leave as long as it did not put the office in a bind, e.g., we have 5 JAGs in our military justice division - I would not put in for leave during a time period when we'd have 1 already on Leave, 1 TDY, and 1 with a docketed court-martial as that would put an unreasonable strain on the 1 free attorney.

My leadership has been consistently solid at being pro-active in making sure we are taking leave. It does not look good for the SJA if during a staff meeting with the Wing Commander if the A1 points out that his/her officers all have a huge amount of accrued leave.

I also have that 20 days because it is easy not to take leave in the AF. Most three day weekends are met with a "family/training day" which turns them into four day weekends. We don't have to take leave if we stay within a certain geographic range, so you can get out of town without burning any leave.

Air Force JAG is as far from life in the Airborne Infantry as it gets. Don't get your military advice from service members in different career fields - stick with AF JAGs for your advice on being an AF JAG, Army JAGs for being an Army JAG, etc, etc.

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Rotor
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Re: Military Law

Postby Rotor » Wed Sep 22, 2010 8:09 pm

I always advised my sailors to keep 15-30 days on the books in case they had a family emergency to take care of. In return, I guaranteed them that they would not lose leave >60 days on the books @ Sept 30). It sometimes took some juggling, but to my knowledge none of my sailors ever lost a day of leave (I.e. "worked for free").

As long as you are smart about when you take your leave and work with leadership in scheduling it, you shouldn't have a problem. Yes you may take the bulk between duty stas as mentioned above, but you will get your leave.

Minnesota3L
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Re: Military Law

Postby Minnesota3L » Thu Sep 23, 2010 1:33 am

Man, some Army JAG is letting the AF have it over at AutoAd.mit...good to be back here among solid folks who can appreciate the AF!

Anyway, I also applied for the October board along with a couple of other guys on here, so good luck to all! I wasn't quite sure what to expect going in for the interview, but it was an overwhelmingly positive experience and confirmed all of the things I had heard about the AF. The Captains were all great and helpful, the SJA was a class act, and I feel like I got a much better sense of what their day-to-day on base is like. I'm feeling like trying for AF was definitely the right choice. Big thanks to Capt Bateman and all the others on here for their invaluable advice...I think I would have felt a lot more unprepared and not well versed in the program were it not for this thread.

Again, best of luck to everyone who applied, and thanks again to everyone who contributes to this thread!

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Patrick Bateman
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Re: Military Law

Postby Patrick Bateman » Thu Sep 23, 2010 9:29 am

[quote="Minnesota3L"]Man, some Army JAG is letting the AF have it over at AutoAd.mit...good to be back here among solid folks who can appreciate the AF! [quote]

"ArmyJAG" on XOXO is an absolute piece of trash but thankfully does not reflect Army JAG as a whole. I'm deployed with a number of Army JAGs right now and they are a great group.

Best of luck to all on the Oct board.

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Eagle
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Re: Military Law

Postby Eagle » Thu Sep 23, 2010 10:08 am

[quote="Patrick Bateman"][quote="Minnesota3L"]Man, some Army JAG is letting the AF have it over at AutoAd.mit...good to be back here among solid folks who can appreciate the AF! [quote][quote]

Despite his AF JAG trash talking, "ArmyJag" does give a candid assessment of life in the Army JAG Corps. from the perspective of a former biglaw attorney. He talks about everything from post locations to law school debt issues to getting girls as a single JA. "ArmyJag" is blunt, at times offensive, yet seems pretty genuine. For anyone interested in Army JAG, I highly recommend checking out his comments. They should be viewed as one man's opinions taken with a grain of salt. You can find his comments here: --LinkRemoved--

1st Lt. Patrick Sandys over at Army Strong Stories has maintained a great blog about his day to day experiences with the JAOBC. He is also very candid and is currently taking questions. He is just about to finish the Charlottesville phase of JAOBC and will soon head off to Fort Benning for the DCC phase. His blog posts can be found here: http://www.armystrongstories.com/blogge ... ck-sandys/

mav2005
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Re: Military Law

Postby mav2005 » Thu Sep 23, 2010 4:22 pm

Hello - What is the age limit for the USMC PLC Law program? As long as I complete OCS by my 29th birthday, would that be permitted?

Thank you

thebiggdawg55
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Re: Military Law

Postby thebiggdawg55 » Thu Sep 23, 2010 7:31 pm

Thanks to Captain Bateman and everyone who weighed in on the leave issue. Obviously, airborne infantry is not the same as JAG, which is why I came to you guys for info. And I appreciate the info very much. This whole thread has been extremely helpful.

I actually am going in for an interview with AF JAG in a couple of weeks. Will that be in time for the next hiring cycle?

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Patrick Bateman
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Re: Military Law

Postby Patrick Bateman » Fri Sep 24, 2010 8:06 am

thebiggdawg55 wrote:I actually am going in for an interview with AF JAG in a couple of weeks. Will that be in time for the next hiring cycle?


You'll be eligible for the December DAP board. The October board will convene on the first of the month with results generally out three weeks later.

The general cutoff for the December DAP board is a 15 Nov interview.

thebiggdawg55
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Re: Military Law

Postby thebiggdawg55 » Fri Sep 24, 2010 11:12 am

Aw, crap. Is there any advantage to doing the earlier cycle, other than knowing sooner?

Also, I'm sure you've answered this somewhere before, but what kind of questions can I expect at the interview? What should I do to prepare? What will they be looking for? If you have any advice at all, it'd be much appreciated.

Thanks again for all your help.

jess8328
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Re: Military Law

Postby jess8328 » Fri Sep 24, 2010 7:46 pm

thebiggdawg55 wrote:Aw, crap. Is there any advantage to doing the earlier cycle, other than knowing sooner?

Also, I'm sure you've answered this somewhere before, but what kind of questions can I expect at the interview? What should I do to prepare? What will they be looking for? If you have any advice at all, it'd be much appreciated.

Thanks again for all your help.


I'm also curious about this. I have a Navy interview coming up next week and Army a few weeks after that.

Connelly
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Re: Military Law

Postby Connelly » Fri Sep 24, 2010 11:41 pm

Does anyone know of anyone who kept trying (for, say, 1-2 years or more) and never got in? JAG is what I want to do - I don't see anything out there that can replace it for me. I am doing and will continue to do everything I can to get in, but I worry I'll be that guy who's trying to get in for 5 years after law school and watching life pass me by. That's exaggerating it a bit, but I was curious how people handled this, since I really have no clue what kind of chance I have of getting in, and it seems like many people would not either.

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Rocky Estoppel
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Re: Military Law

Postby Rocky Estoppel » Sun Sep 26, 2010 3:51 pm

Anyone have an idea when the Air Force JAG summer internship application will be up? I've been checking http://www.usajobs.gov for "Air Force JAG" for awhile now with no luck.

MarMal
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Re: Military Law

Postby MarMal » Mon Sep 27, 2010 3:39 am

I will be applying for Army JAG but have had little success contacting the FSO for a screening interview. I sent information to his email and also put in information through his job ad on my law school's career website. Haven't heard anything at all in the 2 weeks after the ad closed on 9/11. I may be worrying over nothing, but with the application deadline coming up in just over a month, I want to be able to get an interview (or at least have it scheduled) so I can apply. Is there anything else I need to do? I haven't emailed the FSO again and I don't want to bug the people at JARO (is that even the right term?) over this if I don't need to.

I don't have any prior service and I'm 38, getting close to the age cut off. Graduated 2008, finally passed the bar in my home state (not where I'm living now), but other than clerking for a while, I haven't done much. I'm concerned that they'll take one look at my stats and laugh me out of the room. Law school was tough for the first two years (I was commuting and an evening student) and that bad start really hurt my cumulative GPA.

Somebody tell me that I'm worrying over nothing. I want to do this - get the experience, the resume bump, serve my country, and allow my wife to be home with the kids for at least a few years. Thanks in advance.

novaman3
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Re: Military Law

Postby novaman3 » Mon Sep 27, 2010 12:11 pm

Patrick Bateman wrote:
lsatClay wrote: Air Force. I'm more concerned about how competitive I will be for the 1L internship, given I haven't had time to integrate myself into the school yet.


Your odds of an 1L Air Force internship are 0%. Mostly because it doesn't exist.

The Army has 1L and 2L programs. USAF only has a 2L program.

--LinkRemoved--

--LinkRemoved--




Official 1L internships do not exist for the AF. However, I am a 2L and I did an unofficial 1L internship with the AF JAG this past summer. I talked to a Captain at JAX and told me to call each of the bases and ask the SJA if they were willing to take a 1L intern during the summer. I did this to the base closest to me and talked to one of the Captains who was assigned to recruiting in my area and sent him my resume and transcript. I was interviewed over the phone and got an offer a couple weeks later.

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Patrick Bateman
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Re: Military Law

Postby Patrick Bateman » Mon Sep 27, 2010 3:16 pm

thebiggdawg55 wrote:Aw, crap. Is there any advantage to doing the earlier cycle, other than knowing sooner?

Also, I'm sure you've answered this somewhere before, but what kind of questions can I expect at the interview? What should I do to prepare? What will they be looking for? If you have any advice at all, it'd be much appreciated.

Thanks again for all your help.


No advantage to one board or the other.

The interview will depend entirely on the SJA. I've heard of some interviews being rather brief and others being 2+ hours. Some are very formal, others very laid back.

Expect to talk about why you want to serve and why you want to serve in the AF JAG Corps in particular (why AF versus Army or Navy and why JAG versus being a pilot, intel officer, etc). You'll discuss your academic record/resume and may have to explain any blemishes (low class rank/gpa, etc). You will also discuss the "baggage" that comes with an officer's commission: deployments, PT testing, moving every two years. Sometimes the SJA just talks about it, other times they will probe and get your feelings on subjects like that.

The "why AF JAG" question is trickier than one would think. I would also try to learn about the USAF's history and current events. Get familiar with the officer and enlisted rank structure (along with proper terms of address) so you know who you are talking to if you meet other members of the base legal office.

A lot of the interview is more of the SJA briefing you on a variety of matters, so don't be shocked if you are not talking a whole lot. It will feel different than any law firm interviews you may have already sat through.

thebiggdawg55
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Re: Military Law

Postby thebiggdawg55 » Tue Sep 28, 2010 1:44 pm

Thanks again, Captain Bateman. As always, your posts are informative and helpful. I really appreciate you taking the time to answer my questions.

I have been reading up on the Army's new 65k loan repayment program. What do you make of this? Obviously the Army is the only branch offering straight-up loan repayment, but what kind of loan repayment/forgiveness options are there in the AFJAG? What options, if any, are there for those of us who have tons of debt from law school in the AFJAG?

Also, I know this has been talked about somewhat earlier in this thread, but how does the work you do in AFJAG differ from what you may be doing in Army or Navy JAG? Now that you are actually in the program, how would you characterize the type of work you do in the AFJAG? What do you spend most of your time doing? To what extent do you get to choose (or perhaps suggest) the kinds of work that you get?

Lastly, do you plan on doing any overseas assignments? If so, where, and how does the work differ based on where you are assigned?

Thanks again!

paladinlaw
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Re: Military Law

Postby paladinlaw » Tue Sep 28, 2010 2:24 pm

--LinkRemoved--

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Patrick Bateman
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Re: Military Law

Postby Patrick Bateman » Tue Sep 28, 2010 3:12 pm

thebiggdawg55 wrote:Thanks again, Captain Bateman. As always, your posts are informative and helpful. I really appreciate you taking the time to answer my questions.

I have been reading up on the Army's new 65k loan repayment program. What do you make of this? Obviously the Army is the only branch offering straight-up loan repayment, but what kind of loan repayment/forgiveness options are there in the AFJAG? What options, if any, are there for those of us who have tons of debt from law school in the AFJAG?

Also, I know this has been talked about somewhat earlier in this thread, but how does the work you do in AFJAG differ from what you may be doing in Army or Navy JAG? Now that you are actually in the program, how would you characterize the type of work you do in the AFJAG? What do you spend most of your time doing? To what extent do you get to choose (or perhaps suggest) the kinds of work that you get?

Lastly, do you plan on doing any overseas assignments? If so, where, and how does the work differ based on where you are assigned?

Thanks again!


I'm fairly confident your questions have been covered already. I know there is a lot of material now but dig through this thread. If you still cannot get an answer to your satisfaction, reengage and I'll reply.

thebiggdawg55
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Re: Military Law

Postby thebiggdawg55 » Wed Sep 29, 2010 1:31 pm

paladinlaw wrote:http://micahmcmillan.wordpress.com/2009/11/30/jag-corps-student-loan-repayment-program/


Are you sure that this program applies to the AF JAG? I was under the impression that it only applies to Army JAG.

thebiggdawg55
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Re: Military Law

Postby thebiggdawg55 » Wed Sep 29, 2010 1:36 pm

thebiggdawg55 wrote:
paladinlaw wrote:http://micahmcmillan.wordpress.com/2009/11/30/jag-corps-student-loan-repayment-program/


Are you sure that this program applies to the AF JAG? I was under the impression that it only applies to Army JAG.


Nvm, just read an AFJAG publication that confirmed the AFJAG is eligible. I wonder why the Army's website is the only one that mentions the SLRP then?

Thanks for the heads up, paladinlaw.

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Rocky Estoppel
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Re: Military Law

Postby Rocky Estoppel » Wed Sep 29, 2010 7:13 pm

Navy interview this week. Pretty nervous about it.

hasmith
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Re: Military Law

Postby hasmith » Thu Sep 30, 2010 9:50 am

Rocky Estoppel wrote:Navy interview this week. Pretty nervous about it.


I did mine a couple of weeks ago. Definitely different from the usual interview.

jess8328
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Re: Military Law

Postby jess8328 » Thu Sep 30, 2010 2:55 pm

hasmith wrote:
Rocky Estoppel wrote:Navy interview this week. Pretty nervous about it.


I did mine a couple of weeks ago. Definitely different from the usual interview.



I recently did mine. I thought the format was a little awkward. I'm glad we got to interact normally once the structured part was over.

Now we just have to wait...

boston
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Re: Military Law

Postby boston » Thu Sep 30, 2010 3:10 pm

Patrick Bateman wrote: I'm deployed with a number of Army JAGs right now and they are a great group.


If you don't mind me asking, where are you currently deployed?




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