Military Law Forum

[wrangler9]

208th JAOBC, does anyone know when/where we are supposed to get the DD Form 1610?

It looks like it’s available online via several DOD sources (thanks, Google), but I know this isn’t an official answer. As a follow-up and unrelated question, did anyone receive confirmation of appointment other than his/her orders? In the past, I’ve known some general appointment document had gone out...

All I have is the orders too. From what I understand is that we will get the DA Form 71 during the first week of DCC because we will take the oath during the first couple of days. This is for the active component. If you are USAR or ARNG then those additional documents will come before hand because they have to commission before they go TDY.
Also, I don’t think the DD Form 1610 is a document we can just fill out. It’s usually created by the DTS manager of your unit. I’m wondering if only the USAR/ARNG will have the 1610 prior to.

[JAOBC208]

208th JAOBC, does anyone know when/where we are supposed to get the DD Form 1610?

It looks like it’s available online via several DOD sources (thanks, Google), but I know this isn’t an official answer. As a follow-up and unrelated question, did anyone receive confirmation of appointment other than his/her orders? In the past, I’ve known some general appointment document had gone out...

All I have is the orders too. From what I understand is that we will get the DA Form 71 during the first week of DCC because we will take the oath during the first couple of days. This is for the active component. If you are USAR or ARNG then those additional documents will come before hand because they have to commission before they go TDY.
Also, I don’t think the DD Form 1610 is a document we can just fill out. It’s usually created by the DTS manager of your unit. I’m wondering if only the USAR/ARNG will have the 1610 prior to.

Thank you! I’m AD as well, so this is helpful. With respect to DD 1610, I guess I’ll fill it out to the best of my ability and bring additional copies with me...

[Anonymous User]

When are Army alternates typically notified they have been moved to the primary selction for active duty? I am a FLEP alternate for Army but would imagine the direct appointment timeline and alternate list probably influences my own,

[Anonymous User]

From what I can gather, AF JAG initial assignments seem to be for about two years, before a PCS crops up. Is it out of the realm of possibility that a new JAG would stay at their first base / assignment longer? Has anyone ended up completing their entire 4-year commitment at their first (and only) base?

[Backload]

From what I can gather, AF JAG initial assignments seem to be for about two years, before a PCS crops up. Is it out of the realm of possibility that a new JAG would stay at their first base / assignment longer? Has anyone ended up completing their entire 4-year commitment at their first (and only) base?

Yes the length of assignment at your first base will depend on when you came in, manning, and your next job.

Most to almost all PCSs happen in July so if you come in off-cycle say October. You could spend close to 3 years at your first base. Some people at 2 years get extended because they don’t have a new jag coming in yet and need to keep people there. Also your job matters. The JAG corps likes to directly fill an open defense counsel spot. Meaning if you are at base x and adc opens your pcs year at base x and you we approved as an adc then you most likely will become adc at base x. If this happens you are very likely to stay the whole 4 years.

If that route to adc doesn’t happen I would say your chances are almost 0 of staying at the base for 4 years.

This also depends what base you go to, dependents, if you are married to mil, etc. overseas and dependents will be 3 years. So it all varies

[Anonymous User]

quick question on Army JAG selects. The offer letter said 2020 January class was the earliest class available. Would that mean for DCC to start in 2020 January? or UVA class? I was hoping it to be October 2019.. at the latest.

wondering the same thing...

Rumor has it that the May 2019 class and the October 2019 class have been consolidated into an August 2019 class. Unless your state expeditiously processes results, January 2020 would seem to be the default placement. I’d check in with JARO to be a 100% certain, however.

So from what I was told by JARO there is only a Jan 2019 and August 2019 class. So there will not be a May 2019 class.

This means the entire training (DCC and JAG training, which is immediately after that) would start in Jan. 2020. It seems to be about 4-5 months of training (physical and the law school portion)

It takes about 4-5 months (maybe longer) to be medically cleared so keep that in mind as well. So the sooner you can start working on providing your medical clearance, letter of good standing from the bar, and any other paperwork JARO requests to you the better. Keep records also. Congrats!

[Anonymous User]

quick question on Army JAG selects. The offer letter said 2020 January class was the earliest class available. Would that mean for DCC to start in 2020 January? or UVA class? I was hoping it to be October 2019.. at the latest.

wondering the same thing...

Rumor has it that the May 2019 class and the October 2019 class have been consolidated into an August 2019 class. Unless your state expeditiously processes results, January 2020 would seem to be the default placement. I’d check in with JARO to be a 100% certain, however.

So from what I was told by JARO there is only a Jan 2019 and August 2019 class. So there will not be a May 2019 class.

This means the entire training (DCC and JAG training, which is immediately after that) would start in Jan. 2020. It seems to be about 4-5 months of training (physical and the law school portion)

It takes about 4-5 months (maybe longer) to be medically cleared so keep that in mind as well. So the sooner you can start working on providing your medical clearance, letter of good standing from the bar, and any other paperwork JARO requests to you the better. Keep records also. Congrats!

So I was selected AD for this most recent cycle. Since applying, I found out I passed the bar. Additionally, I am already cleared by MEPs from an application to another branch's JAG program. I want to get the process started ASAP before that MEPS clearance expires. Anything I can be doing now to get all my ducks in a row for when we finally start hearing back?

[Anonymous User]

Question specific to the Army: I know JAGs typically rotate practice areas, but can you request a specific practice area? If so, and I request a specific area of law (say, regulatory), will I most likely get it or is it always "needs of the Army" at the end of the day?

[Anonymous User]

quick question on Army JAG selects. The offer letter said 2020 January class was the earliest class available. Would that mean for DCC to start in 2020 January? or UVA class? I was hoping it to be October 2019.. at the latest.

wondering the same thing...

Rumor has it that the May 2019 class and the October 2019 class have been consolidated into an August 2019 class. Unless your state expeditiously processes results, January 2020 would seem to be the default placement. I’d check in with JARO to be a 100% certain, however.

So from what I was told by JARO there is only a Jan 2019 and August 2019 class. So there will not be a May 2019 class.

This means the entire training (DCC and JAG training, which is immediately after that) would start in Jan. 2020. It seems to be about 4-5 months of training (physical and the law school portion)

It takes about 4-5 months (maybe longer) to be medically cleared so keep that in mind as well. So the sooner you can start working on providing your medical clearance, letter of good standing from the bar, and any other paperwork JARO requests to you the better. Keep records also. Congrats!

So I was selected AD for this most recent cycle. Since applying, I found out I passed the bar. Additionally, I am already cleared by MEPs from an application to another branch's JAG program. I want to get the process started ASAP before that MEPS clearance expires. Anything I can be doing now to get all my ducks in a row for when we finally start hearing back?

You need to check and make absolutely 100% that they they take your medical clearance and opat score from another branch. They may not and require you to do it over. Assume nothing because each branch has their own process, rules etc.

Have all your documentation for security clearance prepared also because filling out the paperwork for that takes time as well.

[WheatThins]

I just did my Navy Structured Interview and am applying for DA for the April board.

I know this is putting the cart before the horse, but if selected, I'm going to need a medical waiver for Rheumatoid Arthritis. Does anyone know if this will be possible? It's not on the non-waivable list, but it is certainly on the disqualifying list. I take a weekly prescription medication, but I am 100% treated and have no physical limitations whatsoever so long as I am on my medicine.

[Anonymous User]

I just did my Navy Structured Interview and am applying for DA for the April board.

I know this is putting the cart before the horse, but if selected, I'm going to need a medical waiver for Rheumatoid Arthritis. Does anyone know if this will be possible? It's not on the non-waivable list, but it is certainly on the disqualifying list. I take a weekly prescription medication, but I am 100% treated and have no physical limitations whatsoever so long as I am on my medicine.

It is definitely something about which you would need to speak to your recruiter early in the process. Whether you would get a waiver or not would be entirely discretionary on Navy medical's part. So I would advise you to not put all your hopes into Navy JAG even if you get pro rec'd in case things fall through.

[WheatThins]

I just did my Navy Structured Interview and am applying for DA for the April board.

I know this is putting the cart before the horse, but if selected, I'm going to need a medical waiver for Rheumatoid Arthritis. Does anyone know if this will be possible? It's not on the non-waivable list, but it is certainly on the disqualifying list. I take a weekly prescription medication, but I am 100% treated and have no physical limitations whatsoever so long as I am on my medicine.

It is definitely something about which you would need to speak to your recruiter early in the process. Whether you would get a waiver or not would be entirely discretionary on Navy medical's part. So I would advise you to not put all your hopes into Navy JAG even if you get pro rec'd in case things fall through.

Thanks. I have my medical records at my local hospital here. If I do get pro rec'd, I'll start compiling them and try to get a favorable report.

[Anonymous User]

Hi everyone,

Thank you all for the fantastic information throughout this thread!

A quick question regarding JAG eligibility:
A lot of the legal work I have engaged in concerns the promotion of LGBTQ+ rights, and other work indicates a clear political affilation. I have worked with several LGBTQ+ legal services agencies, and I have served as a law clerk with a political organization. I also hold ongoing and prominent leadership positions associated with these affiliations.

Could including these on my application be severely prejudicial? I'm obviously proud of the work I've done and would like to say as such during the application process, but I hate the idea of being passed up for my affiliations.

Should I even be worried about this at all?

Thanks, all!

[Anonymous User]

I just did my Navy Structured Interview and am applying for DA for the April board.

I know this is putting the cart before the horse, but if selected, I'm going to need a medical waiver for Rheumatoid Arthritis. Does anyone know if this will be possible? It's not on the non-waivable list, but it is certainly on the disqualifying list. I take a weekly prescription medication, but I am 100% treated and have no physical limitations whatsoever so long as I am on my medicine.

It is definitely something about which you would need to speak to your recruiter early in the process. Whether you would get a waiver or not would be entirely discretionary on Navy medical's part. So I would advise you to not put all your hopes into Navy JAG even if you get pro rec'd in case things fall through.

Thanks. I have my medical records at my local hospital here. If I do get pro rec'd, I'll start compiling them and try to get a favorable report.

You can get a lot waived...if you get DQ’d keep appealing. The recruiters’ knowledge on medical DQs is hit or miss. Never take a recruiter’s answer as the final answer.

[Anonymous User]

A quick question regarding JAG eligibility:
A lot of the legal work I have engaged in concerns the promotion of LGBTQ+ rights, and other work indicates a clear political affilation. I have worked with several LGBTQ+ legal services agencies, and I have served as a law clerk with a political organization. I also hold ongoing and prominent leadership positions associated with these affiliations.

Could including these on my application be severely prejudicial? I'm obviously proud of the work I've done and would like to say as such during the application process, but I hate the idea of being passed up for my affiliations.

Should I even be worried about this at all?

Active duty Air Force SJA who conducts applicant interviews here.

Short answer - no, I wouldn't worry about this . . . much.

Officially, there would never be any discrimination for anything like this, of course. We recruit at the Lavender Law Conference, for example (https://lgbtbar.org/annual/2018-sponsor ... -sponsors/). Air Force JAGs have a wide variety of political backgrounds, even though I'm sure we trend toward the overall Air Force officer homogeny that you can imagine.

Our selection boards consist of several JAGs in a room, and they discuss applicants' packages. If there is a wide disparity in judges' scores for an applicant, that has to get resolved through discussion. It would be highly unlikely to have all of the judges tank your application because of political affiliation (though not impossible, I guess). A score that was way out of bounds for your application package would be tough to defend to other JAGs. So I think the selection board would be the toughest place for any discrimination to creep in.

It might creep in with the SJA interviewing you. Our reports are extremely important to your chances of success, and yes, we could tank an applicant we didn't like even by just toning down the praise. The good news is that most SJAs conducting interviews are truly trying to do the best job they can of picking good JAGs given the resources they have. I would hope/imagine many don't waste time focusing on an applicant's politics, because there are much more important/relevant factors to consider, even for those who might be given to (unrightfully) discriminate in some way on this basis.

In talking to other SJAs who conduct interviews, I can't recall politics ever coming up (explicitly or implicitly). Most discussions are usually about possibly disqualifying factors like drugs, criminal records, etc. Overall, I wouldn't be worried about this. Even if bias did creep in, it could go in your favor.

It sounds like you have great experiences working with those organizations. My recommendation would be to focus on showing your interviewer how the skills you developed in those organizations would translate to making you a great JAG. The vast majority of SJAs are going to be much more interested in that. If you don't get selected the first time, reapply! Lots of great candidates don't get picked up their first time, and sometimes it comes down to the vagaries of different selection boards. Consider interviewing at a different base as well, because there's a chance you might "click" more with some interviewers than others, even aside from the political issues.

[Legaleagle21]

Hey, 1L here looking for advice about summer internships. I want to do AF JAG and applied to GLP this go-around. If I don’t get selected, I’d like to do an AF intern/externship so that I’ll be competitive for OYCP. The problem is, the hiring timeline for AF intern/externships is later than many other positions, and holding out for it would require turning down multiple other offers.

I have an offer from the Office of General Counsel of the VA with an acceptance deadline of this coming week. It would be primarily litigation work, and considering that it’s for the VA, do you think it would be looked upon as favorably (or close to it) as a JAG internship? Or if I’m set on JAG should I turn it down and hold out for a possible AF intern/extern offer?

Thanks in advance.

[Rocky123]

Hey, 1L here looking for advice about summer internships. I want to do AF JAG and applied to GLP this go-around. If I don’t get selected, I’d like to do an AF intern/externship so that I’ll be competitive for OYCP. The problem is, the hiring timeline for AF intern/externships is later than many other positions, and holding out for it would require turning down multiple other offers.

I have an offer from the Office of General Counsel of the VA with an acceptance deadline of this coming week. It would be primarily litigation work, and considering that it’s for the VA, do you think it would be looked upon as favorably (or close to it) as a JAG internship? Or if I’m set on JAG should I turn it down and hold out for a possible AF intern/extern offer?

Thanks in advance.

I am a current 3L who was just selected for Army AD in the most recent cycle. I did the AF internship after my 1L year. It was a great experience and informed me of the good and bad of becoming a JAG so that when I applied a couple years later, I was able to make an informed decision.

I was in your boat. I actually accepted another position when my acceptance for the internship rolled around (I didn't think I would get it). It ended up working out because I was able to go to the AF right after the semester ended in May for 10 weeks, then I went back to my other gig for August and through the fall of my 2L year. I was nervous telling my other employer about this other opportunity that came up, but they were very flexible and allowed me to work around it. It helped that my primary boss was retired Army so there was an understanding there.

I would recommend accepting the offer you have if it's something you really want to do. Last thing you want is to not get the AF internship/externship and then be scrambling for a worthwhile position for summer. The internship on its face is important to show you are interested in the military, but you can spin you current offer into the same thing. The real thing you get from the internships that is vital are the connections and the letters of rec for your JAG application. Hard to know, but I believe my letters of rec from two JAGs put me over the top for the Army. So bottom line, my advice is to accept the offer you have (so you have a safety net). Once you hear about the AF internship/externship offers, determine if you can potentially do both opportunities like I did or tell the VA you just received an opportunity that you can't pass up. Another option would be to do your VA gig and then apply for the Army 2L internship for your next summer. Don't limit your options if you don't have to.

Anyway, I'm supposed to be reading and this is my way of procrastinating. Hope that helps.

[Legaleagle21]

Hey, 1L here looking for advice about summer internships. I want to do AF JAG and applied to GLP this go-around. If I don’t get selected, I’d like to do an AF intern/externship so that I’ll be competitive for OYCP. The problem is, the hiring timeline for AF intern/externships is later than many other positions, and holding out for it would require turning down multiple other offers.

I have an offer from the Office of General Counsel of the VA with an acceptance deadline of this coming week. It would be primarily litigation work, and considering that it’s for the VA, do you think it would be looked upon as favorably (or close to it) as a JAG internship? Or if I’m set on JAG should I turn it down and hold out for a possible AF intern/extern offer?

Thanks in advance.

I am a current 3L who was just selected for Army AD in the most recent cycle. I did the AF internship after my 1L year. It was a great experience and informed me of the good and bad of becoming a JAG so that when I applied a couple years later, I was able to make an informed decision.

I was in your boat. I actually accepted another position when my acceptance for the internship rolled around (I didn't think I would get it). It ended up working out because I was able to go to the AF right after the semester ended in May for 10 weeks, then I went back to my other gig for August and through the fall of my 2L year. I was nervous telling my other employer about this other opportunity that came up, but they were very flexible and allowed me to work around it. It helped that my primary boss was retired Army so there was an understanding there.

I would recommend accepting the offer you have if it's something you really want to do. Last thing you want is to not get the AF internship/externship and then be scrambling for a worthwhile position for summer. The internship on its face is important to show you are interested in the military, but you can spin you current offer into the same thing. The real thing you get from the internships that is vital are the connections and the letters of rec for your JAG application. Hard to know, but I believe my letters of rec from two JAGs put me over the top for the Army. So bottom line, my advice is to accept the offer you have (so you have a safety net). Once you hear about the AF internship/externship offers, determine if you can potentially do both opportunities like I did or tell the VA you just received an opportunity that you can't pass up. Another option would be to do your VA gig and then apply for the Army 2L internship for your next summer. Don't limit your options if you don't have to.

Anyway, I'm supposed to be reading and this is my way of procrastinating. Hope that helps.

Hey, thanks for the advice! Do you think there could be potential consequences from bailing on an internship after accepting it? I’m sure CSO at my school would be mad, but don’t you think there could be some personal consequences too?

[Anonymous User]

Hello,

Junior Biglaw associate who is planning to apply to JAG over the course of the next year (hopefully soon). A couple questions:

1. I'm assuming that the AF JAG application window for the April Boards has not opened yet on account of the "No Board Available" option for Attorneys when starting the application? Or am I missing something?

2. To what degree are the "optional elements" actually optional i.e. LOR/Writing Sample? I assume that you need them both to be as competitive as possible but just curious what others' thoughts are.

[WheatThins]

Hello,

Junior Biglaw associate who is planning to apply to JAG over the course of the next year (hopefully soon). A couple questions:

1. I'm assuming that the AF JAG application window for the April Boards has not opened yet on account of the "No Board Available" option for Attorneys when starting the application? Or am I missing something?

2. To what degree are the "optional elements" actually optional i.e. LOR/Writing Sample? I assume that you need them both to be as competitive as possible but just curious what others' thoughts are.

Hey - biglaw junior/mid here applying as well.

USAF application should be open sometime in February. Everyone here recommends having as many LORs as possible.

Pm me more if you want to talk.

[Rocky123]

Hey, 1L here looking for advice about summer internships. I want to do AF JAG and applied to GLP this go-around. If I don’t get selected, I’d like to do an AF intern/externship so that I’ll be competitive for OYCP. The problem is, the hiring timeline for AF intern/externships is later than many other positions, and holding out for it would require turning down multiple other offers.

I have an offer from the Office of General Counsel of the VA with an acceptance deadline of this coming week. It would be primarily litigation work, and considering that it’s for the VA, do you think it would be looked upon as favorably (or close to it) as a JAG internship? Or if I’m set on JAG should I turn it down and hold out for a possible AF intern/extern offer?

Thanks in advance.

I am a current 3L who was just selected for Army AD in the most recent cycle. I did the AF internship after my 1L year. It was a great experience and informed me of the good and bad of becoming a JAG so that when I applied a couple years later, I was able to make an informed decision.

I was in your boat. I actually accepted another position when my acceptance for the internship rolled around (I didn't think I would get it). It ended up working out because I was able to go to the AF right after the semester ended in May for 10 weeks, then I went back to my other gig for August and through the fall of my 2L year. I was nervous telling my other employer about this other opportunity that came up, but they were very flexible and allowed me to work around it. It helped that my primary boss was retired Army so there was an understanding there.

I would recommend accepting the offer you have if it's something you really want to do. Last thing you want is to not get the AF internship/externship and then be scrambling for a worthwhile position for summer. The internship on its face is important to show you are interested in the military, but you can spin you current offer into the same thing. The real thing you get from the internships that is vital are the connections and the letters of rec for your JAG application. Hard to know, but I believe my letters of rec from two JAGs put me over the top for the Army. So bottom line, my advice is to accept the offer you have (so you have a safety net). Once you hear about the AF internship/externship offers, determine if you can potentially do both opportunities like I did or tell the VA you just received an opportunity that you can't pass up. Another option would be to do your VA gig and then apply for the Army 2L internship for your next summer. Don't limit your options if you don't have to.

Anyway, I'm supposed to be reading and this is my way of procrastinating. Hope that helps.

Hey, thanks for the advice! Do you think there could be potential consequences from bailing on an internship after accepting it? I’m sure CSO at my school would be mad, but don’t you think there could be some personal consequences too?

Depends on how you handle it. I don't know why a respectful retraction of acceptance would raise people's hackles. Certainly if you accept your job offer, you should do so with the intent to work there. However, things come up all the time, and I generally think employers are understanding about that--particularly with the military connection. Just my two cents.

[Patrick Bateman]

Hey, 1L here looking for advice about summer internships. I want to do AF JAG and applied to GLP this go-around. If I don’t get selected, I’d like to do an AF intern/externship so that I’ll be competitive for OYCP. The problem is, the hiring timeline for AF intern/externships is later than many other positions, and holding out for it would require turning down multiple other offers.

I have an offer from the Office of General Counsel of the VA with an acceptance deadline of this coming week. It would be primarily litigation work, and considering that it’s for the VA, do you think it would be looked upon as favorably (or close to it) as a JAG internship? Or if I’m set on JAG should I turn it down and hold out for a possible AF intern/extern offer?

Thanks in advance.

I am a current 3L who was just selected for Army AD in the most recent cycle. I did the AF internship after my 1L year. It was a great experience and informed me of the good and bad of becoming a JAG so that when I applied a couple years later, I was able to make an informed decision.

I was in your boat. I actually accepted another position when my acceptance for the internship rolled around (I didn't think I would get it). It ended up working out because I was able to go to the AF right after the semester ended in May for 10 weeks, then I went back to my other gig for August and through the fall of my 2L year. I was nervous telling my other employer about this other opportunity that came up, but they were very flexible and allowed me to work around it. It helped that my primary boss was retired Army so there was an understanding there.

I would recommend accepting the offer you have if it's something you really want to do. Last thing you want is to not get the AF internship/externship and then be scrambling for a worthwhile position for summer. The internship on its face is important to show you are interested in the military, but you can spin you current offer into the same thing. The real thing you get from the internships that is vital are the connections and the letters of rec for your JAG application. Hard to know, but I believe my letters of rec from two JAGs put me over the top for the Army. So bottom line, my advice is to accept the offer you have (so you have a safety net). Once you hear about the AF internship/externship offers, determine if you can potentially do both opportunities like I did or tell the VA you just received an opportunity that you can't pass up. Another option would be to do your VA gig and then apply for the Army 2L internship for your next summer. Don't limit your options if you don't have to.

Anyway, I'm supposed to be reading and this is my way of procrastinating. Hope that helps.

Hey, thanks for the advice! Do you think there could be potential consequences from bailing on an internship after accepting it? I’m sure CSO at my school would be mad, but don’t you think there could be some personal consequences too?

Depends on how you handle it. I don't know why a respectful retraction of acceptance would raise people's hackles. Certainly if you accept your job offer, you should do so with the intent to work there. However, things come up all the time, and I generally think employers are understanding about that--particularly with the military connection. Just my two cents.

I think Rocky's response here is dead on.

You aren't operating in bad faith right now if you accept with the VA. Maybe the AF plans out, maybe it doesn't. You'd be a fool not to take the bird in the hand.

I ran the intern/extern program for my BigFed office for a few years - I certainly would not have blacklisted or held any ill will to an intern that ended up withdrawing (provided it was in a reasonable time window before the actual start date and was respectful about it). Probably even odds that I wouldn't even connect the name if I saw it again down the road. In DC, it is usually a steady stream of interns/externs each academic semester and then the summer. It's possible HR might track this sort of thing and note it in a file but that never once came across my desk.

[Anonymous User]

Do you get paid BAH while at JSOC?

[Patrick Bateman]

Do you get paid BAH while at JSOC?

Assume you mean JASOC - the intro JAG course for the Air Force. JSOC is Joint Special Operations Command at Ft Bragg and a whole different kettle of fish.

If you report to your base after OTS and then go back to JASOC, you will receive your home base BAH for the duration. If you roll right into JASOC from OTS, however, I believe you will not get BAH until you actually report at your base after graduating.

[Legaleagle21]

Does anyone know the likelihood of getting stationed OCONUS for the AF extern/internship? I'd like to list some of the European and Asian bases on my wish list, but if OCONUS is a no-go, then I'd rather not waste my list.