Military Law

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Re: Military Law

Postby Anonymous User » Sat Aug 12, 2017 5:06 pm

TwoRoads wrote:
TwoRoads wrote:Does anyone have experience with lower back pain/SI joint pain/sciatica and a history of that in relation to medical qualifications/MEPS? Is this an issue? If so, is it waiverable?


Just giving my question a bump in case anyone has thoughts. I hear MEPS and waivers are unpredictable but if anyone has anecdotal advise on low back pain or sciatica issues, I'd appreciate it.


For Army, you should look up AR 40-501 at www.apd.army.mil. Chapter 2 covers medical standards for enlistment and induction.

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TwoRoads

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Re: Military Law

Postby TwoRoads » Sun Aug 13, 2017 9:37 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
TwoRoads wrote:
TwoRoads wrote:Does anyone have experience with lower back pain/SI joint pain/sciatica and a history of that in relation to medical qualifications/MEPS? Is this an issue? If so, is it waiverable?


Just giving my question a bump in case anyone has thoughts. I hear MEPS and waivers are unpredictable but if anyone has anecdotal advise on low back pain or sciatica issues, I'd appreciate it.


For Army, you should look up AR 40-501 at http://www.apd.army.mil. Chapter 2 covers medical standards for enlistment and induction.


Thanks - I have looked at DoDI 6130-03, which seems to be substantially the same as AR 40-501 that you referenced, and there is not a whole lot of guidance on low back pain. The section on the spine and sacroiliac joints talks about (paraphrasing) current or history of any condition if it is associated with local or referred pain to the extremities or requires frequent treatment. Sciatica includes referred pain to the extremities and low back pain can require frequent treatment (perhaps chiropractic treatment or at least doing physical therapy exercises at home - if it's just exercises at home, though, maybe that's not "treatment").

I am on a treatment plan that ideally will improve posture, prevent throwing my back out in the future and prevent these other symptoms from recurring. However, history of such issues seems to be a concern based on the language above. With low back pain being so common, and JAGs typically being older than the usual enlistee or officer candidate and more likely to have experienced back pain, I was wondering if anyone had dealt with this particular concern before.

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Re: Military Law

Postby Anonymous User » Sun Aug 13, 2017 10:32 pm

TwoRoads wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:
TwoRoads wrote:
TwoRoads wrote:Does anyone have experience with lower back pain/SI joint pain/sciatica and a history of that in relation to medical qualifications/MEPS? Is this an issue? If so, is it waiverable?


Just giving my question a bump in case anyone has thoughts. I hear MEPS and waivers are unpredictable but if anyone has anecdotal advise on low back pain or sciatica issues, I'd appreciate it.


For Army, you should look up AR 40-501 at http://www.apd.army.mil. Chapter 2 covers medical standards for enlistment and induction.


Thanks - I have looked at DoDI 6130-03, which seems to be substantially the same as AR 40-501 that you referenced, and there is not a whole lot of guidance on low back pain. The section on the spine and sacroiliac joints talks about (paraphrasing) current or history of any condition if it is associated with local or referred pain to the extremities or requires frequent treatment. Sciatica includes referred pain to the extremities and low back pain can require frequent treatment (perhaps chiropractic treatment or at least doing physical therapy exercises at home - if it's just exercises at home, though, maybe that's not "treatment").

I am on a treatment plan that ideally will improve posture, prevent throwing my back out in the future and prevent these other symptoms from recurring. However, history of such issues seems to be a concern based on the language above. With low back pain being so common, and JAGs typically being older than the usual enlistee or officer candidate and more likely to have experienced back pain, I was wondering if anyone had dealt with this particular concern before.

In the class right now. I'll tell you this. There are plenty of people in the class that had to get a medical waiver for something before they got in here. Some people had to get waivers for things much worse than what you got. Yes, there are people that got waivers for back pain or whatever back issue you got going on. Just do what literally the many have done before you, and just go through the medical waiver process. You will have to wait a while, just like everybody else. You just have to roll the dice like everyone else.

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Re: Military Law

Postby ML0576 » Mon Aug 14, 2017 8:52 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
TwoRoads wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:
TwoRoads wrote:
TwoRoads wrote:Does anyone have experience with lower back pain/SI joint pain/sciatica and a history of that in relation to medical qualifications/MEPS? Is this an issue? If so, is it waiverable?


Just giving my question a bump in case anyone has thoughts. I hear MEPS and waivers are unpredictable but if anyone has anecdotal advise on low back pain or sciatica issues, I'd appreciate it.


For Army, you should look up AR 40-501 at http://www.apd.army.mil. Chapter 2 covers medical standards for enlistment and induction.


Thanks - I have looked at DoDI 6130-03, which seems to be substantially the same as AR 40-501 that you referenced, and there is not a whole lot of guidance on low back pain. The section on the spine and sacroiliac joints talks about (paraphrasing) current or history of any condition if it is associated with local or referred pain to the extremities or requires frequent treatment. Sciatica includes referred pain to the extremities and low back pain can require frequent treatment (perhaps chiropractic treatment or at least doing physical therapy exercises at home - if it's just exercises at home, though, maybe that's not "treatment").

I am on a treatment plan that ideally will improve posture, prevent throwing my back out in the future and prevent these other symptoms from recurring. However, history of such issues seems to be a concern based on the language above. With low back pain being so common, and JAGs typically being older than the usual enlistee or officer candidate and more likely to have experienced back pain, I was wondering if anyone had dealt with this particular concern before.

In the class right now. I'll tell you this. There are plenty of people in the class that had to get a medical waiver for something before they got in here. Some people had to get waivers for things much worse than what you got. Yes, there are people that got waivers for back pain or whatever back issue you got going on. Just do what literally the many have done before you, and just go through the medical waiver process. You will have to wait a while, just like everybody else. You just have to roll the dice like everyone else.


Thank you so much for your post and your insight from being on the inside. I am sure you know how much it means to us to hear your info, and please keep us posted with any helpful information, we really appreciate it.

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Re: Military Law

Postby Anonymous User » Mon Aug 14, 2017 9:50 pm

Anyone hear about waivers for the current class(es)?

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Re: Military Law

Postby Anonymous User » Tue Aug 15, 2017 3:54 pm

Anonymous User wrote:Anyone hear about waivers for the current class(es)?

I submitted my waiver materials six or so weeks ago and have not heard back yet.

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TwoRoads

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Re: Military Law

Postby TwoRoads » Sat Aug 19, 2017 12:05 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
TwoRoads wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:
TwoRoads wrote:
TwoRoads wrote:Does anyone have experience with lower back pain/SI joint pain/sciatica and a history of that in relation to medical qualifications/MEPS? Is this an issue? If so, is it waiverable?


Just giving my question a bump in case anyone has thoughts. I hear MEPS and waivers are unpredictable but if anyone has anecdotal advise on low back pain or sciatica issues, I'd appreciate it.


For Army, you should look up AR 40-501 at http://www.apd.army.mil. Chapter 2 covers medical standards for enlistment and induction.


Thanks - I have looked at DoDI 6130-03, which seems to be substantially the same as AR 40-501 that you referenced, and there is not a whole lot of guidance on low back pain. The section on the spine and sacroiliac joints talks about (paraphrasing) current or history of any condition if it is associated with local or referred pain to the extremities or requires frequent treatment. Sciatica includes referred pain to the extremities and low back pain can require frequent treatment (perhaps chiropractic treatment or at least doing physical therapy exercises at home - if it's just exercises at home, though, maybe that's not "treatment").

I am on a treatment plan that ideally will improve posture, prevent throwing my back out in the future and prevent these other symptoms from recurring. However, history of such issues seems to be a concern based on the language above. With low back pain being so common, and JAGs typically being older than the usual enlistee or officer candidate and more likely to have experienced back pain, I was wondering if anyone had dealt with this particular concern before.

In the class right now. I'll tell you this. There are plenty of people in the class that had to get a medical waiver for something before they got in here. Some people had to get waivers for things much worse than what you got. Yes, there are people that got waivers for back pain or whatever back issue you got going on. Just do what literally the many have done before you, and just go through the medical waiver process. You will have to wait a while, just like everybody else. You just have to roll the dice like everyone else.


Thanks very much for your insight. I suppose I should also stop trying to predict the future! Though I understand some conditions are not "waiverable" (like psoriasis I believe) and so thought I would ask specifically about a history of back pain, which seems common. In any event, you are right, I do just need to roll the dice. Good luck in the class.

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Re: Military Law

Postby akjim101 » Mon Aug 21, 2017 6:03 pm

I'm in the process of working on my application for the Army's 2L internship. It asks for the name and date of interview with the FSO. Does an OCI interview with the Army count as an interview with an FSO?

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Re: Military Law

Postby Standish » Mon Aug 21, 2017 6:40 pm

akjim101 wrote:I'm in the process of working on my application for the Army's 2L internship. It asks for the name and date of interview with the FSO. Does an OCI interview with the Army count as an interview with an FSO?


Yes, it does for the Army.

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Re: Military Law

Postby Anonymous User » Tue Aug 22, 2017 12:52 pm

Standish wrote:
Roclandsfinest23 wrote:I received an email today that I made the October class. Active Duty Army.


Did you get a separate notification that your medical had been approved by HRC before you heard that you made the October class? Also, have you been told your first duty station? If so, what was the timeline for that?



Same question, thought I'd try to bump it!

Roclandsfinest23

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Re: Military Law

Postby Roclandsfinest23 » Tue Aug 22, 2017 1:00 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
Standish wrote:
Roclandsfinest23 wrote:I received an email today that I made the October class. Active Duty Army.


Did you get a separate notification that your medical had been approved by HRC before you heard that you made the October class? Also, have you been told your first duty station? If so, what was the timeline for that?



Same question, thought I'd try to bump it!



I got one email that said I was approved by HRC and that I made the October class. In that email they sent me my duty assignment worksheet....still waiting to hear back about where i'll be stationed

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Re: Military Law

Postby frankbeans » Tue Aug 22, 2017 2:30 pm

Army AD Select here. Does anyone have an e-mail address for a CPT Suh? I was told to start corresponding with him/her, but cannot find an address. Any help is appreciated. Additionally, when we first submitted documents to JARO, I indicated that I would not be able to start training until next May. Circumstances have changed, and I now hope to get a seat for the January class. Any idea if I should go ahead and communicate this to JARO, or is it a moot point until I get HRC approval and my license? Thank you.

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Re: Military Law

Postby jtl45 » Tue Aug 22, 2017 3:44 pm

Roclandsfinest23 wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:
Standish wrote:
Roclandsfinest23 wrote:I received an email today that I made the October class. Active Duty Army.


Did you get a separate notification that your medical had been approved by HRC before you heard that you made the October class? Also, have you been told your first duty station? If so, what was the timeline for that?



Same question, thought I'd try to bump it!



I got one email that said I was approved by HRC and that I made the October class. In that email they sent me my duty assignment worksheet....still waiting to hear back about where i'll be stationed


I received my email confirmation for the October class and HRC approval the first week of June. About the middle of July I received my duty assignment worksheet, but also have not heard back since. (Army AD)

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Re: Military Law

Postby Anonymous User » Tue Aug 22, 2017 4:46 pm

I've been accepted into the Navy and Army JAG and wrapping up my documents for both (still undecided).

My long-term goals are to (1) be overseas (2) be in the courtroom (3) to eventually transition into a State Dept/DOJ Overseas Attache (ideally).

Can anyone give me some insight? I've talked to ex-JAGs of both services, but I get kind of wishy-washy answers. My main concern is Navy's two-year rotation where there's a lot of hand holding and taking it slow (maybe that's good). I haven't read anything like that for the Army (possible and probable). Anyway, if there's any anecdotal advice anyone can provide, it'd be much appreciated. I'm leaning Army right now for no real articulable reason.

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Re: Military Law

Postby Anonymous User » Wed Aug 23, 2017 9:49 am

jtl45 wrote:
Roclandsfinest23 wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:
Standish wrote:
Roclandsfinest23 wrote:I received an email today that I made the October class. Active Duty Army.


Did you get a separate notification that your medical had been approved by HRC before you heard that you made the October class? Also, have you been told your first duty station? If so, what was the timeline for that?



Same question, thought I'd try to bump it!



I got one email that said I was approved by HRC and that I made the October class. In that email they sent me my duty assignment worksheet....still waiting to hear back about where i'll be stationed


I received my email confirmation for the October class and HRC approval the first week of June. About the middle of July I received my duty assignment worksheet, but also have not heard back since. (Army AD)


What options did you have for your duty assignment?

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TheSpanishMain

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Re: Military Law

Postby TheSpanishMain » Wed Aug 23, 2017 10:52 am

Anonymous User wrote:I've been accepted into the Navy and Army JAG and wrapping up my documents for both (still undecided).

My long-term goals are to (1) be overseas (2) be in the courtroom (3) to eventually transition into a State Dept/DOJ Overseas Attache (ideally).

Can anyone give me some insight? I've talked to ex-JAGs of both services, but I get kind of wishy-washy answers. My main concern is Navy's two-year rotation where there's a lot of hand holding and taking it slow (maybe that's good). I haven't read anything like that for the Army (possible and probable). Anyway, if there's any anecdotal advice anyone can provide, it'd be much appreciated. I'm leaning Army right now for no real articulable reason.


I'm an ex-Army officer (not JAG) now going Navy JAG, so I have some sense of this, but take it with a grain of salt.

1) What do you mean by overseas? You want to deploy? If so, go Army. The opportunities to deploy are much more plentiful, and it's more a part of the Army's culture. Officers in the Army without a combat patch definitely have a credibility problem past a certain point. 2) I think the Navy probably gives you more opportunities to litigate, since a not of non-litigation stuff is handled by DoN civilians. But the Navy is also much smaller, so YMMV. As for 3) I have no idea.

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Re: Military Law

Postby Anonymous User » Wed Aug 23, 2017 8:50 pm

TheSpanishMain wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:I've been accepted into the Navy and Army JAG and wrapping up my documents for both (still undecided).

My long-term goals are to (1) be overseas (2) be in the courtroom (3) to eventually transition into a State Dept/DOJ Overseas Attache (ideally).

Can anyone give me some insight? I've talked to ex-JAGs of both services, but I get kind of wishy-washy answers. My main concern is Navy's two-year rotation where there's a lot of hand holding and taking it slow (maybe that's good). I haven't read anything like that for the Army (possible and probable). Anyway, if there's any anecdotal advice anyone can provide, it'd be much appreciated. I'm leaning Army right now for no real articulable reason.


I'm an ex-Army officer (not JAG) now going Navy JAG, so I have some sense of this, but take it with a grain of salt.

1) What do you mean by overseas? You want to deploy? If so, go Army. The opportunities to deploy are much more plentiful, and it's more a part of the Army's culture. Officers in the Army without a combat patch definitely have a credibility problem past a certain point. 2) I think the Navy probably gives you more opportunities to litigate, since a not of non-litigation stuff is handled by DoN civilians. But the Navy is also much smaller, so YMMV. As for 3) I have no idea.


I am going to have to respectfully disagree. I am a current Navy jag on active duty.

I am going to be completely honest with you, I wont try to sell you a pack of lies to make my job/service seem awesome, or to recruit you... the Navy is not a good place to be an attorney if you expect to professionally develop yourself, and become a better lawyer. The attorneys that stay in the Navy Jag Corps long term are shit attorney's; they aren't good litigators, their legal writing is garbage, and they become farther and farther removed from the real world law, and become wrapped up and engulfed in military bureaucracy, aka idiocy.

The two year FTJA program is a joke. The Navy is NOT the place to be to become a litigator or get any semblance of litigation experience; this is a lie that continues to be propagated . . . some how, and honestly the how is beyond me. The two year mandatory "internship" PROHIBITS me from getting into the courtroom but only one time for a small plea, which is essentially a five minute argument on sentencing, and MAYBE second chair ONCE on a super shitty misdemeanor level trial for something stupid like a marijuana pop or something. That puts me a FULL TWO years behind all of my other law school peers. After that two years I am basically starting at square one. I personally know attorneys who have been in the Jag Corps over a decade and have one or two super small trials, if that, and no motion writing/litigation experience. By the way, they don't make exceptions for exceptional lawyers either, with some rare exception for attorneys who practiced before the jag corps.

Aside from this two year courtroom moratorium, the case volume in the jag corps is super low, with low level stuff. I'm talking mostly low level domestic violence, shit sexual assaults, and a lot of special court martial drug pops. All of the good stuff the state takes, or the AUSA takes it, we get the scraps. The other jag corps positions are shit too. You're either doing wills all day for retirees, or helping some stupid E2 with a 40K Beamer he can't afford, or dealing with petty command bull shit at the SJA's office, like fund raising requests, DUI's etc. .

The ONLY thing good about my job is my pay is pretty good, and the benefits are good. I out earn most of my law school colleagues, for now. In about 10 years they will all surpass me. Additionally I get tax benefits, and I hardly work at all. Even the attorneys who have been in for years and years have these shit cases, so what do you think gets assigned to the people with five years or less? Even shittier cases, low level simple menial crap. The benefit of which is that I burn through my "work" super fast and I get A LOT of off time. So "work" life balance is awesome.

Good pay and hardly any real work to do is great in the short term, but like I said, I am not getting better as an attorney, and in the long run I will be far behind my peers professionally. I never thought professional development would be a gripe of mine, who the hell complains to get paid and sit around doing nothing?; but I am literally wasting my degree, talent, and intelligence on this organization, for nothing. Once I get out and get a real job I am going to be LOST; worse off even than a brand new lawyer because at least for them the black letter law will be fresh in their heads from the bar.

My advice, steer clear of the Navy Jag Corps for now. We seem to be going through a transition period right now with this FTJA program, and we will be in a world of trouble for about the next decade until whatever dumb ass who implemented it is retired, so that we can be free to also retire this stupid plan. I can't speak for the other branches, although I know Marines get real experience right out of the gate still, and the coast guard does too.

You've been warned.

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Re: Military Law

Postby Anonymous User » Thu Aug 24, 2017 11:13 am

Anonymous User wrote:
TheSpanishMain wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:I've been accepted into the Navy and Army JAG and wrapping up my documents for both (still undecided).

My long-term goals are to (1) be overseas (2) be in the courtroom (3) to eventually transition into a State Dept/DOJ Overseas Attache (ideally).

Can anyone give me some insight? I've talked to ex-JAGs of both services, but I get kind of wishy-washy answers. My main concern is Navy's two-year rotation where there's a lot of hand holding and taking it slow (maybe that's good). I haven't read anything like that for the Army (possible and probable). Anyway, if there's any anecdotal advice anyone can provide, it'd be much appreciated. I'm leaning Army right now for no real articulable reason.


I'm an ex-Army officer (not JAG) now going Navy JAG, so I have some sense of this, but take it with a grain of salt.

1) What do you mean by overseas? You want to deploy? If so, go Army. The opportunities to deploy are much more plentiful, and it's more a part of the Army's culture. Officers in the Army without a combat patch definitely have a credibility problem past a certain point. 2) I think the Navy probably gives you more opportunities to litigate, since a not of non-litigation stuff is handled by DoN civilians. But the Navy is also much smaller, so YMMV. As for 3) I have no idea.


I am going to have to respectfully disagree. I am a current Navy jag on active duty.

I am going to be completely honest with you, I wont try to sell you a pack of lies to make my job/service seem awesome, or to recruit you... the Navy is not a good place to be an attorney if you expect to professionally develop yourself, and become a better lawyer. The attorneys that stay in the Navy Jag Corps long term are shit attorney's; they aren't good litigators, their legal writing is garbage, and they become farther and farther removed from the real world law, and become wrapped up and engulfed in military bureaucracy, aka idiocy.

The two year FTJA program is a joke. The Navy is NOT the place to be to become a litigator or get any semblance of litigation experience; this is a lie that continues to be propagated . . . some how, and honestly the how is beyond me. The two year mandatory "internship" PROHIBITS me from getting into the courtroom but only one time for a small plea, which is essentially a five minute argument on sentencing, and MAYBE second chair ONCE on a super shitty misdemeanor level trial for something stupid like a marijuana pop or something. That puts me a FULL TWO years behind all of my other law school peers. After that two years I am basically starting at square one. I personally know attorneys who have been in the Jag Corps over a decade and have one or two super small trials, if that, and no motion writing/litigation experience. By the way, they don't make exceptions for exceptional lawyers either, with some rare exception for attorneys who practiced before the jag corps.

Aside from this two year courtroom moratorium, the case volume in the jag corps is super low, with low level stuff. I'm talking mostly low level domestic violence, shit sexual assaults, and a lot of special court martial drug pops. All of the good stuff the state takes, or the AUSA takes it, we get the scraps. The other jag corps positions are shit too. You're either doing wills all day for retirees, or helping some stupid E2 with a 40K Beamer he can't afford, or dealing with petty command bull shit at the SJA's office, like fund raising requests, DUI's etc. .

The ONLY thing good about my job is my pay is pretty good, and the benefits are good. I out earn most of my law school colleagues, for now. In about 10 years they will all surpass me. Additionally I get tax benefits, and I hardly work at all. Even the attorneys who have been in for years and years have these shit cases, so what do you think gets assigned to the people with five years or less? Even shittier cases, low level simple menial crap. The benefit of which is that I burn through my "work" super fast and I get A LOT of off time. So "work" life balance is awesome.

Good pay and hardly any real work to do is great in the short term, but like I said, I am not getting better as an attorney, and in the long run I will be far behind my peers professionally. I never thought professional development would be a gripe of mine, who the hell complains to get paid and sit around doing nothing?; but I am literally wasting my degree, talent, and intelligence on this organization, for nothing. Once I get out and get a real job I am going to be LOST; worse off even than a brand new lawyer because at least for them the black letter law will be fresh in their heads from the bar.

My advice, steer clear of the Navy Jag Corps for now. We seem to be going through a transition period right now with this FTJA program, and we will be in a world of trouble for about the next decade until whatever dumb ass who implemented it is retired, so that we can be free to also retire this stupid plan. I can't speak for the other branches, although I know Marines get real experience right out of the gate still, and the coast guard does too.

You've been warned.


Thank you so much, this affirms a lot of what people have been telling me -I just don't think it's for me.

MacSauce

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Re: Military Law

Postby MacSauce » Thu Aug 24, 2017 3:58 pm

For anyone who has Instagram and is interested in Air Force JAG: I'm a 2L who is doing the Graduate Law Program (ROTC+Law School) and will be doing a daily photo journal of the experience. If you're curious, feel free to follow. The tag is "journey_of_a_jag"

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Re: Military Law

Postby Anonymous User » Tue Sep 05, 2017 1:50 am

Regarding the application for Army JAG that is currently open:

What is the timeline? Is this application cycle for people who will go to training in January 2018? Or is it mostly for kids still in school to start in 2019? I'm so confused as to when people should be applying and what time frame they are applying for. Is there any upside to waiting for bar results to apply? Or are you at a huge disadvantage if you don't apply before graduating law school?

Should I reach out to a FSO with these questions or should I not bother them until I want an interview?

Anonymous User
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Re: Military Law

Postby Anonymous User » Tue Sep 05, 2017 7:37 am

Anonymous User wrote:Regarding the application for Army JAG that is currently open:

What is the timeline? Is this application cycle for people who will go to training in January 2018? Or is it mostly for kids still in school to start in 2019? I'm so confused as to when people should be applying and what time frame they are applying for. Is there any upside to waiting for bar results to apply? Or are you at a huge disadvantage if you don't apply before graduating law school?

Should I reach out to a FSO with these questions or should I not bother them until I want an interview?

The applications that are open now would have you going to training in October 2018 at the earliest most likely (possibly May 2018 but only if you are prior service). If you haven't passed the bar yet you would more likely go in January 2019 or May 2019. The applications do not really distinguish between students and attorneys who have been practicing for a while. If you want the best chance at getting in, you should apply while still in law school, as you may not get selected the first time, but could be selected on subsequent attempts. This will give you more opportunities.

If you are seriously interested, I would recommend reaching out to an FSO now to schedule an interview and get working on your application. If you are still in school, however, check with your career services department to see if they already have plans to bring in an FSO for OCI.

Standish

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Re: Military Law

Postby Standish » Tue Sep 05, 2017 10:49 am

Anonymous User wrote:Regarding the application for Army JAG that is currently open:

What is the timeline? Is this application cycle for people who will go to training in January 2018? Or is it mostly for kids still in school to start in 2019? I'm so confused as to when people should be applying and what time frame they are applying for. Is there any upside to waiting for bar results to apply? Or are you at a huge disadvantage if you don't apply before graduating law school?

Should I reach out to a FSO with these questions or should I not bother them until I want an interview?


If you're in school, check with career services to see when the FSO will be doing interviews on campus. If you're not in school, contact the FSO as soon as possible. Last year, the FSO for my area (in the contiguous US) was stationed in Hawaii, so if I had missed scheduling an interview during the few days he was in my area, it would have been a difficult situation. Also, you do the interview before submitting the application, so just get the interview out of the way and then get your app together.

aka123

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Re: Military Law

Postby aka123 » Tue Sep 05, 2017 12:00 pm

Anonymous User wrote:Regarding the application for Army JAG that is currently open:

What is the timeline? Is this application cycle for people who will go to training in January 2018? Or is it mostly for kids still in school to start in 2019? I'm so confused as to when people should be applying and what time frame they are applying for. Is there any upside to waiting for bar results to apply? Or are you at a huge disadvantage if you don't apply before graduating law school?

Should I reach out to a FSO with these questions or should I not bother them until I want an interview?


I applied last November and was notified of my acceptance around Christmas. With Army JAG, you don't do anything other than some paperwork and tests till you get admitted to practice. My state is one of the slowest to process bar results and to admit so I don't anticipate starting training till May or October 2018. DCC classes have been in the past few years offered three times a year: March, May, and October. If you choose to wait till after bar results, you'll just wait longer and it will likely come up during your interview as to why you waited. I don't think it's a huge disadvantage but if you're going to wait anyway, might as well know you got in and have something for you when you pass the bar. There's also no guarantee you'll get in on the first board. Some really qualified posters on this board have been denied multiple times. If you had read through the posts, you'll see people who have been accepted still waiting to start training. The commissioning process takes a lot of patience and strength to get through. It sucks not have a concrete answer when people ask when I'll be starting but this is what I want to spend the rest of my life so it's certainly worth waiting for.

Rocky123

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Re: Military Law

Postby Rocky123 » Wed Sep 06, 2017 12:54 pm

Hello Future JAG Applicants:

I wanted to post about my experience as a 1L in the AFJAG Summer Externship program this past summer (2017). This forum has been tremendously helpful in my decision to pursue JAG, but I did not see many posts about firsthand experiences in externship/internships so I thought I could add something.

A little about me: I have no experience with military, which was my primary reason for pursuing the internship. I go to a T3, but I'm in the top 10% of my class. I found the job posting on the AFJAG Recruiting Facebook page (a good resource for anyone looking for info on the application process), and I applied around December/January, accepted in February. I applied for both the unpaid externship as well as the paid internship which came out later. I was accepted for both positions, but because I accidentally disqualified myself on my USA Jobs online application for the paid internship, I was forced to take the unpaid position. This did not affect anything except that I was no longer able to get paid, and the JAG recruiter was very apologetic about it because I was not at fault. So the experience didn't start of on a great foot, needless to say, but I'm still very glad I did it regardless.

First, let me start off by saying my experience was incredibly rewarding and positive. If you are at all considering JAG as a career path, you should definitely at least apply for the summer programs. As a 1L, the AF might be your best opportunity for this, but I know both Army and AF have summer programs in 2L year. Especially if you have limited military experience, it's imperative for you to understand whether the lifestyle is right for you.

The Work: I assisted mainly in the General Law section at the base I was on, primarily because I had an interest in this area and because they were shorthanded. And because there were a lot attorneys coming and going during the time I was there, I was able to do a lot of hands-on work. For example, I drafted: wills; articles for AF-wide publication; legal reviews of investigations, etc. I was extremely pleased with both the quantity and kind of work I was provided, and I never felt like I was a burden on the office.

The People: Because I had no prior military experience, I had no idea what to expect. I had great conversation and working relationships with everyone I worked with. Between the attorneys and paralegals, everyone was willing to offer help and answer any questions I had, but more importantly to me, I found everyone was willing to share their experiences both with JAG and with the AF in general, which was my primary reason for pursuing the internship in the first place. I found it very easy to relate to everyone in the office, and it very much had the team-like atmosphere that I was hoping it would have.

Thoughts on JAG: Interestingly, I had good relationships with two of the attorneys in particular, and both advised me against applying for AFJAG. One was very unhappy with his experience compared to other government experiences he had had in law school, and the other advised me to look into Army. One interesting thing about the AF is that there are a lot less attorneys, which means, especially in General Law, that no one really specializes. So some attorney in Gen Law will have to handle anything that walks through the door, and each new problem you face will often be your first time dealing with it. I can see this being both a benefit and a negative, and I'm sure it really depends on the person. And it could differ greatly between bases. This is opposed to Army (from my understanding), where you might be in Legal Assistance for a year (drafting/executing Wills, POAs) and you'll get to build on that knowledge during that time until you're an expert. Then you'll move into another area.

Another thing about my experience was that I realized the downfalls of a huge bureaucracy. There were a ton of inefficiencies that just couldn't really be helped. For instance, it took a whole week just for them to get me a pass to get on base. The Wifi was in and out every single day, and there would be hours that no one could get any work done because of this. I would have problems logging into the computer every other day. These are those little things that add up that really make it "service" to your country. Beyond those things, as a JAG, your support staff will be paralegals who are sometimes only a year or two out of high school. They have some training, but they are often trying to learn their job as much as you are trying to learn yours. As a military attorney, you won't get the support that a regular civilian attorney would have, that's for sure. I don't think these things will necessarily determine my decision to apply for direct appointment, but they definitely are a factor.

Bottom Line: I would recommend applying for the AF JAG summer externship/internship if you are at all interested in pursuing JAG. It let me know the negatives and positives of the position, but it also gave me great insight into military life. And most importantly, I was able to meet people (and future references!) to give me firsthand knowledge of the kind of person that is successful in JAG.

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Re: Military Law

Postby Anonymous User » Wed Sep 06, 2017 5:59 pm

Have my interview w/ Army JAG tomorrow. Any advice. This is for Active Duty Appointment FYI.



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