Military Law Forum

[Moves like JAGger]

is there any indication in the proposal whether those who've already made/are making qualified public service payments will be grandfathered? It would be outrageously unfair to stick those who relied on the program and ignored their principal for up to 7 years.

This change would only affect those who haven't yet made qualifying payments, right??

Guess I'll be taking that SLRP money after all.

[spleenworship]

is there any indication in the proposal whether those who've already made/are making qualified public service payments will be grandfathered? It would be outrageously unfair to stick those who relied on the program and ignored their principal for up to 7 years.

This change would only affect those who haven't yet made qualifying payments, right??

Guess I'll be taking that SLRP money after all.

This budget would still have to get through both houses though... I'm not sure that'll happen with the current situation in DC

[Patrick Bateman]

is there any indication in the proposal whether those who've already made/are making qualified public service payments will be grandfathered? It would be outrageously unfair to stick those who relied on the program and ignored their principal for up to 7 years.

This is my biggest concern. I have been doing exactly that, using IBR to ignore the principal, as I slowly make my way to 10 years. Now, six years in, this feels like a whole lot of detrimental reliance.

Who knows. There have been a dozen news articles about proposed measures from DOD about tinkering with military retirements, COLA, and other things to save money and the subsequent outcry shut all of that down. Write your Congressman/woman and Senators - I have to wonder if there are enough JAGs and other folks hurt by this to actually get that petition to 100,000 signatures.

[Esquire]

I'm surprised people actually relied on PSLF. If it applies retroactively, I see a lot of upset people. I thought better of trusting it. I'll have my loans paid off this time next year without relying on it or IBR. Military pay is ridiculously deceptive. Your AGI is $40k when you're actually pulling near ~$100k. To put in perspective how powerful IBR+PSLF can be for military JAs: You may be able to get your subsidized loans deferred, rely on IBR for $200 monthly payments for unsubsidized loans, and cling on to ten years to have an unlimited amount forgiven. And that amount forgiven is tax free.

[spleenworship]

I'm surprised people actually relied on PSLF. If it applies retroactively, I see a lot of upset people. I thought better of trusting it. I'll have my loans paid off this time next year without relying on it or IBR. Military pay is ridiculously deceptive. Your AGI is $40k when you're actually pulling near ~$100k. To put in perspective how powerful IBR+PSLF can be for military JAs: You may be able to get your subsidized loans deferred, rely on IBR for $200 monthly payments for unsubsidized loans, and cling on to ten years to have an unlimited amount forgiven. And that amount forgiven is tax free.

Aren't you Army though esquire?

The Navy, CG, and USMC guys don't get that $65k in help on their loans that Army and AF get.

[Esquire]

I hope my post isn't interpreted to be more than I intended. I make no opinion on PSLF. Just trying to help people understand how surprisingly good military pay can be.

[spleenworship]

I don't understand what you're getting at. My ~$100k remark is ignoring the SLRP payment. I don't mean $100k after taxes, though. But that number is fairly comparable when you consider how military pay is taxed and the low cost of living.

I made no opinion on PSLF. Just trying to help people understand how surprisingly good military pay can be.

Sorry. Misunderstood your main point.

You did use the 65k in loan repayment from the Army though, right? Because not all the services have that, and I'm sure that really helps.

[Esquire]

No. You give up the GI Bill if you take the $45k after taxes. Not worth it for me but it may be for others.

[tjsmms061906]

I may be misinterpreting this conversation but you can get both the SLRP and the GI Bill as long as you serve for a total of 6 years active. Source: I did it.

[Esquire]

I may be misinterpreting this conversation but you can get both the SLRP and the GI Bill as long as you serve for a total of 6 years active. Source: I did it.

I believe you are right. But your initial commitment is 4 years.

[spleenworship]

No. You give up the GI Bill if you take the $45k after taxes. Not worth it for me but it may be for others.

Interesting. That wasn't made clear to me in the AFs promotional materials

[maxpayne]

No. You give up the GI Bill if you take the $45k after taxes. Not worth it for me but it may be for others.

So for SLRP, only $45k is actually applied to your loans after taxes?

[tjsmms061906]

No. You give up the GI Bill if you take the $45k after taxes. Not worth it for me but it may be for others.

So for SLRP, only $45k is actually applied to your loans after taxes?

For the student loan repayment program, if you are offered $65k then that is what will be applied to the loans over a three year period. You will be taxed on the $65k just as if it were income.

[maxpayne]

No. You give up the GI Bill if you take the $45k after taxes. Not worth it for me but it may be for others.

So for SLRP, only $45k is actually applied to your loans after taxes?

For the student loan repayment program, if you are offered $65k then that is what will be applied to the loans over a three year period. You will be taxed on the $65k just as if it were income.

OKay great. Thanks!

[doctoroflaw91]

1L here. I had family in several branches of the armed forces that have since retired, but I am interested in exploring AF JAG. I already have an internship secured for 1L summer, but the program is something that I plan to look into for 2L year.

[womeninblack]

No. You give up the GI Bill if you take the $45k after taxes. Not worth it for me but it may be for others.

So for SLRP, only $45k is actually applied to your loans after taxes?

For the student loan repayment program, if you are offered $65k then that is what will be applied to the loans over a three year period. You will be taxed on the $65k just as if it were income.

I think that what Esquire is saying is that $65k isn't the amount that will actually be applied to the loans. In theory, the amount is $65k, but I read a PowerPoint (http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q= ... 4-2lg-FXfA) that said that after taxes, the amount is about $45k that is actually paid to the loan provider.

[pele1113]

First, thanks for all the great information in this thread.

Second, question on the GLP / OYCP: is the commitment binding once you accept while you're still in law school (4 years of active duty)? Or do you make an election after graduating / passing the bar to commit to the 4 years of service?

If the commitment is made IN law school, that is the only downside I see to these programs -- committing so early before you have a chance to do some other things (I'm thinking state AG office).

Thanks

[maxpayne]

No. You give up the GI Bill if you take the $45k after taxes. Not worth it for me but it may be for others.

So for SLRP, only $45k is actually applied to your loans after taxes?

For the student loan repayment program, if you are offered $65k then that is what will be applied to the loans over a three year period. You will be taxed on the $65k just as if it were income.

I think that what Esquire is saying is that $65k isn't the amount that will actually be applied to the loans. In theory, the amount is $65k, but I read a PowerPoint (http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q= ... 4-2lg-FXfA) that said that after taxes, the amount is about $45k that is actually paid to the loan provider.

Wow! Thanks for that powerpoint. Very informative.

Yeah, that's sort of misleading. But, $45k is still better than $0k.

[UFlaw15]

FYI...Today, I received the rejection letter for OYCP.

[spleenworship]

FYI...Today, I received the rejection letter for OYCP.

Sorry to hear

[allAF]

For the student loan repayment program, if you are offered $65k then that is what will be applied to the loans over a three year period. You will be taxed on the $65k just as if it were income.

I think that what Esquire is saying is that $65k isn't the amount that will actually be applied to the loans. In theory, the amount is $65k, but I read a PowerPoint (http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q= ... 4-2lg-FXfA) that said that after taxes, the amount is about $45k that is actually paid to the loan provider.

Wow! Thanks for that powerpoint. Very informative.

Yeah, that's sort of misleading. But, $45k is still better than $0k.

There are a couple of misleading things. First, and most importantly, how much you actually get out of the SLRP program depends on how much you have in student loans. The program runs 3 years, and each year you get up to 1/3 of the amount applied to your existing loans. The caveat is that they look at your existing eligible loans and only authorize SLRP payments in an amount that does not exceed 1/3 of the amount of each loan. In other words, if you had a loan of $60k, you do not receive $20k each year. Instead, not accounting for the 28% of tax that's withheld from your payment, you get $20k in year 1 (formula: 60000*33%=$20000). In year 2, you only get $13,333 (formula: 60000-20000 leaves 40000; 40000*33%=$13333). In year 3, you get $8,900ish (40000-13333=26667; 26667*33%=8900). In these circumstances, you will not have all of your loans paid off by SLRP. This also is not made clear by AF promotional materials, but it is clear in the text of the statute that authorizes SLRP. I fell into this odd category, and it was quite a disappointment when I learned that the AF would not, in fact, cover the entire amount of my student loans even though the program is authorized to pay a total amount that was more than what my loans were. But something is better than nothing, as they say.

Second, to clarify the GI bill aspect, your eligibility for the GI bill does not accrue while you are accepting SLRP payments. If you stay in for 6 years, then you can get the full 3 years of SLRP. Years 3-6 you would establish your eligibility for the GI bill (I think it takes 3 years, although I am not completely sure). If you wanted to transfer your GI Bill to your kid, however, I believe you'll run into problems if you don't stay in for longer than 6 years because of the additional service commitment required to transfer. Something to consider if your student loans were low enough that the 1/3 rule limits the amount of SLRP you'll get and you intend to transfer your GI Bill benefits to an eligible dependent.

[allAF]

First, thanks for all the great information in this thread.

Second, question on the GLP / OYCP: is the commitment binding once you accept while you're still in law school (4 years of active duty)? Or do you make an election after graduating / passing the bar to commit to the 4 years of service?

If the commitment is made IN law school, that is the only downside I see to these programs -- committing so early before you have a chance to do some other things (I'm thinking state AG office).

Thanks

GLP/OYCP requires you to commit to enlist in the AF once you pass field training (usually the summer immediately after you are accepted into the program). You will sign an enlistment contract once you come back that fall. Presumably, you would be required to enter the AF as an enlisted member if you didn't complete ROTC, although I have no idea if they'd hold you to it. Once you complete ROTC, you commission as a 2d Lt in the reserves until you pass the bar. If you didn't pass the bar (or chose not to take it), I'm not sure if they'd transfer you to a different career field or terminate your contract. If they did terminate your contract, they may require you to repay the small stipend you receive as a ROTC cadet.

It may seem limiting to commit during law school, but it's also pretty nice. It certainly frees you from worrying about getting a job during your 3L year. Despite my OYCP acceptance, I also still had a chance to do everything I wanted to do in terms of summer internships. If your concern is passing up a non-military lawyer job directly out of law school, then those programs aren't for you.

[25thPercentileGuy]

Anyone apply for the Navy Jag Summer Internship? I'm still waiting to hear back. Was told that there would be decisions out early March. Anyone hear anything yet?

[Megatron15]

FYI...Today, I received the rejection letter for OYCP.

ditto.

[wvu]

Anyone apply for the Navy Jag Summer Internship? I'm still waiting to hear back. Was told that there would be decisions out early March. Anyone hear anything yet?

Not yet.