Military Law Forum

[AndyB617]

you can request anything you want. whether you get it or not depends on the needs of the air force (or any of the other services for that matter.)

[texaslawyer]

Andy that is so true. Especially in the Marines where the only field guaranteed field is aviation. I've seen Marine JAGs lead rifle platoons and whatever else the Corps mandated. However, as a JAG you do get thrown into the briar patch very quickly. You will be a litigator. Period.

[Patrick Bateman]

The unofficial word is that AF JAG will be matching the Army's loan repayment program (up through $65K). The precise terms have not been announced but implimentation has been pushed through by the senior JAG Corps leadership. My understanding is that it is at the CSAF/SECAF level now but we were given a warm fuzzy that it will be approved for fiscal year 2010.

All I have for you now.

Any idea if this will apply to all active duty JAs or only those who are accepted after a certain date?

My understanding was that it will apply to the current JAGs as well as incoming. I have no idea as to specifics, like if there will be any caps in terms of years already in, or how much one will be eligible for each year, and the strings that will come with taking the money.

[Patrick Bateman]

Does anyone know if for the AF you can request to stay in CONUS. Would they ever make you go overseas if you didn't want to?

Are you talking deployments or station assignments?

You can (and likely will) be deployed overseas if you don't want to. That said, there are more JAGs volunteering for deployments then there are spots. With Iraq winding down, we will lose a couple dozen JAG billets over there for the Captain level.

Realistically, I don't see anyone getting an OCONUS station assignment unless they request it. With the exception of Korea, all the European and Pacific bases are highly sought after. I know plenty of JAGs who volunteered for a year in Korea to increases their chances of a USAFE/PACAF assignment.

[J-Rod]

had two firm interviews today, then mailed in my stuff to Navy JAG Accessions . . . now the waiting game begins!

[Rotor]

had two firm interviews today, then mailed in my stuff to Navy JAG Accessions . . . now the waiting game begins!

Good luck! Hope the interviews went well!

[Fujin11]

when you get an overseas assignment as an officer do you live on base or off base?

[anthonyc7599]

when you get an overseas assignment as an officer do you live on base or off base?

Depends on where you go and for how long you will be there, but generally yes. In fact most friends I had in Okinawa and Baharain lived very well out in town. However, if you just rotate into Oki for a 6 month UDP, you will be living on base.

[J-Rod]

I interviewed today with the Army for the 2L internship. And in case people were wondering how competitive it is, they are interviewing 65 people at UVA alone.

luckily, the interviewer was my c.o. this past summer, so it went well, haha

[Yointer]

I interviewed today with the Army for the 2L internship. And in case people were wondering how competitive it is, they are interviewing 65 people at UVA alone.

luckily, the interviewer was my c.o. this past summer, so it went well, haha

65 applicants? That's amazing. I guess bankruptcy lawyers aren't the only ones benefiting from the recession.

J-Rod, are you planning on signing up with the Army JAG after graduation?

[FeuerFrei]

.

[poprox]

Patrick,

First, thanks for all of the information you have shared already - it has been very insightful. I'm interested in the AF JAG program, and hoping to get a better feel for it before I start law school next fall. To that end, I've obtained contact info (just general phone numbers) for the SJA office at my local AF base. Do you have any advice of how I should approach requesting a brief interview with a Judge Advocate there? Should I just call in, and ask whoever answers the phone if it is possible to meet with a JAG and speak to her/him about what they do and how I can prepare in law school?

I'm really hoping to establish some working relationship and knowledge of how the SJA office operates before I reach 1L and am applying to do a summer internship. I appreciate any advice or feedback from anyone, including Patrick.

[Patrick Bateman]

Patrick,

First, thanks for all of the information you have shared already - it has been very insightful. I'm interested in the AF JAG program, and hoping to get a better feel for it before I start law school next fall. To that end, I've obtained contact info (just general phone numbers) for the SJA office at my local AF base. Do you have any advice of how I should approach requesting a brief interview with a Judge Advocate there? Should I just call in, and ask whoever answers the phone if it is possible to meet with a JAG and speak to her/him about what they do and how I can prepare in law school?

I'm really hoping to establish some working relationship and knowledge of how the SJA office operates before I reach 1L and am applying to do a summer internship. I appreciate any advice or feedback from anyone, including Patrick.

Depending on the base, I seriously doubt the SJA will have the time to be able to shoot the shit with a 0L. The office should have a recruiting POC. I would call the front desk and ask to speak to that point of contact rather than the SJA.

You won't do any interviewing. If the POC is able to accommodate you, maybe he/she can bring you into the office for a brief tour/Q&A. You have to appreciate that most JAGs are going to be extremely busy. Even first assignment JAGs are section chiefs which means a ton of work. Recruiting is an extra duty for base legal JAGs, meaning it is not in anyone's official job description. Any time spent with recruiting is generally time spent away from actual assignments.

There is only a 2L summer internship for AF JAG.

A lot of your questions may be better answered at JAX, the accessions/recruiting branch for JAG at Headquarters Air Force. You can reach them at 800-JAG-USAF. After that you can try your luck at the base legal level.

[poprox]

Thanks for the quick and thorough response - this is great information. I'm glad now that I asked about this, as I understand much better about how to make initial contact. I'll go through JAX to get my 0L questions answered, it sounds like that's the appropriate channel. I had completely forgotten that AF only does 2L summer internships (I *think* that maybe some of the other branches do 1L internships, navy perhaps does).

This is a very valuable thread for sure, it really helps to hear about the experiences of others who have gone through any part of the process in becoming a JAG Officer. I even learned about the distinction between hoo-rah, hoo-yah, and hoo-ah

[poprox]

Im fairly certain I will be applying for the AF GLP during 1L, but I was wondering if anyone could elaborate on the ROTC requirements. Do you have to do PT regularly in the morning? Not because I don't want to do PT, but because I was planning on going ED at NYU, and their cross-town agreement is with manhatten college (250 blocks away) and it would be impossible to get there at 6 am or whenever morning PT starts.

In the GLP are you all-out in ROTC or would they accomodate for this? This is kind of important before I sign a binding contract with a school that doesn't have a detachment on campus

Sorry for such a late response, but JAX indicated that GLP indeed means you're full on ROTC, grouped in with all other ROTC students at your local detachment (undergrad and graduate). That does mean 5am to 6am start on PT most mornings, if I remember right from my brief ROTC stint in undergrad. It's hard enough when you already live on campus, but probably far more stressful if you had to drive in from a distance to attend.

Now for another AF question: I recently read (in stars and stripes I think) that AFPC policy changed regarding PCS timelines, such that anyone stationed CONUS would remain at station for FOUR years before PCSing. That is unless an overseas assignment (permanent, not TDY) comes your way, in which case they can move you after only 2 years. Since JAGs fall under JAX, not AFPC, does anyone know if this new policy still applies to JAG officers?

Just wondering if anyone knows this off-hand. If not I may be calling JAX again...
One more question as well (assuming this policy does apply): how likely are overseas assignments for a first or second permanent station as a new JAG in the Air Force? Just as likely as a CONUS station? Or are they not usually assigned to low time-in-service JAGs?

[Patrick Bateman]

Im fairly certain I will be applying for the AF GLP during 1L, but I was wondering if anyone could elaborate on the ROTC requirements. Do you have to do PT regularly in the morning? Not because I don't want to do PT, but because I was planning on going ED at NYU, and their cross-town agreement is with manhatten college (250 blocks away) and it would be impossible to get there at 6 am or whenever morning PT starts.

In the GLP are you all-out in ROTC or would they accomodate for this? This is kind of important before I sign a binding contract with a school that doesn't have a detachment on campus

Sorry for such a late response, but JAX indicated that GLP indeed means you're full on ROTC, grouped in with all other ROTC students at your local detachment (undergrad and graduate). That does mean 5am to 6am start on PT most mornings, if I remember right from my brief ROTC stint in undergrad. It's hard enough when you already live on campus, but probably far more stressful if you had to drive in from a distance to attend.

Now for another AF question: I recently read (in stars and stripes I think) that AFPC policy changed regarding PCS timelines, such that anyone stationed CONUS would remain at station for FOUR years before PCSing. That is unless an overseas assignment (permanent, not TDY) comes your way, in which case they can move you after only 2 years. Since JAGs fall under JAX, not AFPC, does anyone know if this new policy still applies to JAG officers?

Just wondering if anyone knows this off-hand. If not I may be calling JAX again...
One more question as well (assuming this policy does apply): how likely are overseas assignments for a first or second permanent station as a new JAG in the Air Force? Just as likely as a CONUS station? Or are they not usually assigned to low time-in-service JAGs?

1. You are correct regarding GLP & ROTC requirements.

2. With some exceptions (generally being selected for Area Defense Counsel or Deployments) you will move every 2 years. There can be some plus/minus to that time frame but 24 months is the standard.

3. There are not nearly as many OCONUS as there are CONUS bases. Therefore there is a lower chance of an OCONUS duty assignment. Of my JASOC class of 75, there were roughly 6 going to Germany, 5-6 going to England, 1 going to Italy, and 5-6 going to Japan. Alaska is also OCONUS and I think we had 2 going there. The rest of our JAG class was CONUS. As the saying goes, the quickest way to Europe/Japan is through Korea. Do your first two years and then volunteer for a year in ROK. After your ROK tour, your chances of USAFE/PACAF are far far higher.

Navy and Army do 1L internships by the way. It's a great way to increase your chances of doing your real internship with USAF as a 2L! J-Rod did his 1L with the Army this past summer, he may be able to give you some advice regarding the application process and his experiences.

[J-Rod]

Navy and Army do 1L internships by the way. It's a great way to increase your chances of doing your real internship with USAF as a 2L! J-Rod did his 1L with the Army this past summer, he may be able to give you some advice regarding the application process and his experiences.

This is correct, and I've posted a lot of info throughout this thread, but if you want more, feel free to post up. I've also interviewed for the 2L army internship, and applied for a commission through the student program with the Navy. (not because I didn't like the army, I loved the army, but because you can't apply to army until your 3L year, it's rare to get accepted to the navy jagc your first application, and it'll give me the best chance to end up near my s/o)

[poprox]

1. You are correct regarding GLP & ROTC requirements.

2. With some exceptions (generally being selected for Area Defense Counsel or Deployments) you will move every 2 years. There can be some plus/minus to that time frame but 24 months is the standard.

3. There are not nearly as many OCONUS as there are CONUS bases. Therefore there is a lower chance of an OCONUS duty assignment. Of my JASOC class of 75, there were roughly 6 going to Germany, 5-6 going to England, 1 going to Italy, and 5-6 going to Japan. Alaska is also OCONUS and I think we had 2 going there. The rest of our JAG class was CONUS. As the saying goes, the quickest way to Europe/Japan is through Korea. Do your first two years and then volunteer for a year in ROK. After your ROK tour, your chances of USAFE/PACAF are far far higher.

Navy and Army do 1L internships by the way. It's a great way to increase your chances of doing your real internship with USAF as a 2L! J-Rod did his 1L with the Army this past summer, he may be able to give you some advice regarding the application process and his experiences.

Thanks again for all of the info - I'm going to look over J-Rod's posts regarding 1L army internships. That sounds like a great leg-up if I could get selected for one.

[mtw]

Thank you for all the great information.

I don't think this has been addressed yet (my apologies if it has):

1. Do the JAGs you know actually take the full 30 days off per year? Does it depend on the service, the duty station, etc?

2. If you have kids, I assume it's more likely to stay at a duty station longer. E.g., Bateman has talked about 24-36 mo's at a duty station; for families, is it more likely that it would be 36 mos?

3. Regarding initial posts, I don't believe the Army will let you go to the state where you are licensed; what about the other services? I.e., is there any policy against letting you stay for your initial tour in the area you are currently practicing?

4. Re Coast Guard JAG: I know that the CG is domestic, but has anyone heard of any JAGs being deployed overseas (even on a volunteer basis)?

Thanks!

[J-Rod]

Thank you for all the great information.

I don't think this has been addressed yet (my apologies if it has):

1. Do the JAGs you know actually take the full 30 days off per year? Does it depend on the service, the duty station, etc?

2. If you have kids, I assume it's more likely to stay at a duty station longer. E.g., Bateman has talked about 24-36 mo's at a duty station; for families, is it more likely that it would be 36 mos?

3. Regarding initial posts, I don't believe the Army will let you go to the state where you are licensed; what about the other services? I.e., is there any policy against letting you stay for your initial tour in the area you are currently practicing?

4. Re Coast Guard JAG: I know that the CG is domestic, but has anyone heard of any JAGs being deployed overseas (even on a volunteer basis)?

Thanks!

1. It depends on the duty station, and your current assignment, but most I knew took the full amount of time off. Obviously if you're deployed, it's different.

2. With the Army, Navy, AF your usually set to be somewhere for 2 years. Some positions you could be there for 3 years. Another thing you can try to do, is that if you are at a large installation, you can do a 2/2, where you do one billet for 2 years, and then switch to another one for the next two years in the same location. This is hard, but can be done.

3. As for your initial assignments, you work with the services while in training to determine where you want to go. Usually, you submit a list of your top 3-5 preferred locations, and they work with you to put you there. Obviously, if you have a husband/wife in a particular location, you'll probably get first dibs on a location as opposed to the single person. But in the end, it all boils down to the needs of the service. As a JAG, it doesn't matter which BAR exam you pass, you can practice anywhere, and they can send you anywhere.

4. I met two Coasties this summer who deployed for 6 months each. They don't usually require deployments, but many people volunteer for them.

[Vdiz]

Wow, there's a lot of great information here, thank you.

A few questions, what about Army JAG Reserves:

1. Does anyone know the selection rates? Are they as tight as active JAG right now?

2. Are Reserve JAGs given the opportunity to go to airborne school, air assault school, etc. like active JAGS are?

3. Chances of deployment?

4. What is a typical drill weekend and yearly 2-week training like?

Thank you in advance for any information.

[ArkansasFan]

I'm tempted to just apply for AFROTC, via cheapo master's degree, or OTS and do something then leave with the GI Bill in hand and go to law school or stay and have fun doing whatever. This comes after reflecting on military JAG and seeing other opportunities.

[texaslawyer]

ArkansasFan that wouldn't be a bad way to go. I appled for an AFROTC schloarship many years ago and I wanted to fly and be a JAG. You could do that back then. I don't think you can now.

[the lantern]

I'm tempted to just apply for AFROTC, via cheapo master's degree, or OTS and do something then leave with the GI Bill in hand and go to law school or stay and have fun doing whatever. This comes after reflecting on military JAG and seeing other opportunities.

If you accept a ROTC scholarship (even if you don't complete the program), you forfeit the GI Bill. This happened to me.

[Rotor]

I'm tempted to just apply for AFROTC, via cheapo master's degree, or OTS and do something then leave with the GI Bill in hand and go to law school or stay and have fun doing whatever. This comes after reflecting on military JAG and seeing other opportunities.

If you accept a ROTC scholarship (even if you don't complete the program), you forfeit the GI Bill. This happened to me.

That only applied to Montgomery GI Bill. With post 9/11 Gi Bill, the only caveat is you can't count mandatory service time from ROTC or service academies as qualifying time for eligibility.
[edit to add...]
So if ROTC is a 5 year commitment (not sure if all are the same), you would have to do 8 years to be eligible for 100% benefit (including Yellow Ribbon). Anything from 90 days up to 3 years gives you fractional benefit (but no YRP). See the thread called "New GI Bill" or visit gibill.va.gov for more info.