Military Law

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Anonymous User
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Re: Military Law

Postby Anonymous User » Mon Oct 23, 2017 10:30 pm

lawschoolgirl12345 wrote:Can CAPT in the Navy JAG Corps leave a negative intern evaluation? I heard they are all supposed to be positive, but at the same time they are private and kept from the view of interns. Why is that? Does it have an internal recommendation for select or non select on this form? How can you tell if you have a positive intern evaluation if you were a prior Navy JAG Corps intern?

Current extern with the Navy (hence the anon) and I have found evaluation form templates (and LOR recommendation templates for that matter) in our share folder. There are two templates in our folder. One is for an outstanding intern that is very positive, and another that is for a mediocre intern that is very reserved, but still ultimately recommends them for selection (albeit very non-persuasively). I would imagine you would need to really mess up in order to get a completely negative evaluation.

As far as seeing it, that will probably never happen. The Navy doesn't send it to you like the AF does. All you can do is wait right now and see if you are selected. If you are not selected, then you can call Accessions and ask how to strengthen your application.

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Re: Military Law

Postby Anonymous User » Tue Oct 24, 2017 2:43 pm

Army question here: I have submitted by certificate of good standing, have been medically approved, and told by JARO that I'm marked down for the January class. Are we going to sign anything to make this more official?

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Re: Military Law

Postby Anonymous User » Thu Oct 26, 2017 11:34 am

Hey all, Army JAG two part question here.

1) I've been reading over this thread again, and I got a little paranoid since it seems like so many people were denied late in the process for medical conditions. I passed my MEPS and only have to send it my lab results, which shouldn't show any issues. I know that there is one final review of your MEPS and lab results. Has anyone ever passed the MEPS, had no issue with lab results and failed the final review? I have no medical issues that should preclude me from joining, but like I said I'm getting a little paranoid

2) I had one credit card debt sent to collections while I was in law school. I just couldn't pay it. It wasn't large, just a few thousand. Since then, I've paid almost all of it off, and I expect to have it all paid off by the time they do a security check. In addition, all my other debts have been paid on time, my credit score is decent, and I don't have debt right now beyond my student loans (and the little bit left in collection). There was no judgement entered against me for that debt. However, I heard financial issues can result in a failed security clearance. How bad does it look for me given my situation?

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Re: Military Law

Postby Anonymous User » Thu Oct 26, 2017 9:10 pm

Anonymous User wrote:Hey all, Army JAG two part question here.

1) I've been reading over this thread again, and I got a little paranoid since it seems like so many people were denied late in the process for medical conditions. I passed my MEPS and only have to send it my lab results, which shouldn't show any issues. I know that there is one final review of your MEPS and lab results. Has anyone ever passed the MEPS, had no issue with lab results and failed the final review? I have no medical issues that should preclude me from joining, but like I said I'm getting a little paranoid

2) I had one credit card debt sent to collections while I was in law school. I just couldn't pay it. It wasn't large, just a few thousand. Since then, I've paid almost all of it off, and I expect to have it all paid off by the time they do a security check. In addition, all my other debts have been paid on time, my credit score is decent, and I don't have debt right now beyond my student loans (and the little bit left in collection). There was no judgement entered against me for that debt. However, I heard financial issues can result in a failed security clearance. How bad does it look for me given my situation?


1) If you didn't have anything flagged after MEPS and your labs are fine...you'll be fine. Remember, the folks that approve this stuff see hundreds of these medical packets per day. They aren't looking to make your/their lives any harder. No need to be paranoid...just take what you read in these forums with a grain of salt. People oftentimes embellish their stories or leave key facts out and cause people like you to freak out. Everyone's medical situation is different and if you have no issues then you really shouldn't worry at all. While there are some people that discover disqualifying medical conditions during the medical screening process...that's extremely rare. Most people that don't pass have a documented issue that they've known about for years that ends up disqualifying them.

2) I wouldn't worry about the credit card debt. What the security clearance folks are looking for is a pattern of poor judgment. When I had my first clearance done the investigator actually told me about a 1 year old unpaid debt that my undergraduate school had charged me that I didn't pay (I didn't know about it). He told me as a courtesy and I paid it. I don't think he even noted it in his investigation report. One of the questions on the SF 86 asks: - In the past seven (7) years, you had bills or debts turned over to a collection agency? (Include financial obligations for which you were the sole debtor, as well as those for which you were a cosigner or guarantor).

Answer it truthfully. They will not care. Provide an explanation and you'll be fine. What would get you in trouble is if you lied about it and then they found out you lied.

Hope that helps.

lharle
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Re: Military Law

Postby lharle » Sat Oct 28, 2017 1:19 pm

Did anyone else get this e-mail?

Thank you for applying to the Air Force JAG Corps' October 2017 Direct Appointment Program (DAP) board.

The October DAP board has met, however results may not be released in time for non-selects to apply for the December DAP board. Everyone can apply to the December DAP board and if you are selected for the October DAP board we will withdraw your December DAP board application. The December DAP board application deadline is 10 November 2017.

Selection results will be released within 60 days. Selectees will receive a phone call and non-selects will receive an email or a letter in the mail.


1. The subject line and first sentence freaked me out.
2. This isn't a rejection, is it?
3. What's the issue? If the Board has met, why would the results take another 60 days?

G1nOut
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Re: Military Law

Postby G1nOut » Sat Oct 28, 2017 3:07 pm

lharle wrote:Did anyone else get this e-mail?

Thank you for applying to the Air Force JAG Corps' October 2017 Direct Appointment Program (DAP) board.

The October DAP board has met, however results may not be released in time for non-selects to apply for the December DAP board. Everyone can apply to the December DAP board and if you are selected for the October DAP board we will withdraw your December DAP board application. The December DAP board application deadline is 10 November 2017.

Selection results will be released within 60 days. Selectees will receive a phone call and non-selects will receive an email or a letter in the mail.


1. The subject line and first sentence freaked me out.
2. This isn't a rejection, is it?
3. What's the issue? If the Board has met, why would the results take another 60 days?


I got this email too, it gave me a pre-halloween scare. I don't think it's a rejection. It does make me wonder if people have started receiving calls yet, though. I actually got on here today just to check if anyone posted about calls.

Best of luck. I'll post results whenever I get them, whatever they may be.

snyder7
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Re: Military Law

Postby snyder7 » Sat Oct 28, 2017 5:24 pm

Did anyone else get this e-mail?
Thank you for applying to the Air Force JAG Corps' October 2017 Direct Appointment Program (DAP) board.

The October DAP board has met, however results may not be released in time for non-selects to apply for the December DAP board. Everyone can apply to the December DAP board and if you are selected for the October DAP board we will withdraw your December DAP board application. The December DAP board application deadline is 10 November 2017.

Selection results will be released within 60 days. Selectees will receive a phone call and non-selects will receive an email or a letter in the mai

1. The subject line and first sentence freaked me out.
2. This isn't a rejection, is it?
3. What's the issue? If the Board has met, why would the results take another 60 days?

I also received this email. Attached was an additional email with "recommendations" from the October Selection Board for future applicants. Those recommendations included: (1) updating LORs; (2) submitting a professional picture; and, (3) info about motivational statement. Did anyone else get that e-mail too?

I recall them sending similar emails in the past. This is not a rejection e-mail, but if you are rejected you will get an email (been there, done that). Not sure about issues. Could be waiting on word for finalizing the number of slots available in Oct. class. That's about all I can think of.

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usn26
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Re: Military Law

Postby usn26 » Sat Oct 28, 2017 6:07 pm

lharle wrote:Did anyone else get this e-mail?

Thank you for applying to the Air Force JAG Corps' October 2017 Direct Appointment Program (DAP) board.

The October DAP board has met, however results may not be released in time for non-selects to apply for the December DAP board. Everyone can apply to the December DAP board and if you are selected for the October DAP board we will withdraw your December DAP board application. The December DAP board application deadline is 10 November 2017.

Selection results will be released within 60 days. Selectees will receive a phone call and non-selects will receive an email or a letter in the mail.


1. The subject line and first sentence freaked me out.
2. This isn't a rejection, is it?
3. What's the issue? If the Board has met, why would the results take another 60 days?


1. Yes
2. No
3. While the board has met, I think TJAG has to personally sign off on the selections, and presumably they won't send out notifications until the full slate has been approved. Generals are busy people, obviously, so this could take a while even if its just pro forma, and longer if he is actually reviewing the files in detail. Also bear in mind that 60 days is probably an extremely conservative estimate.

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Re: Military Law

Postby aka123 » Sat Oct 28, 2017 6:12 pm

G1nOut wrote:
lharle wrote:Did anyone else get this e-mail?

Thank you for applying to the Air Force JAG Corps' October 2017 Direct Appointment Program (DAP) board.

The October DAP board has met, however results may not be released in time for non-selects to apply for the December DAP board. Everyone can apply to the December DAP board and if you are selected for the October DAP board we will withdraw your December DAP board application. The December DAP board application deadline is 10 November 2017.

Selection results will be released within 60 days. Selectees will receive a phone call and non-selects will receive an email or a letter in the mail.


1. The subject line and first sentence freaked me out.
2. This isn't a rejection, is it?
3. What's the issue? If the Board has met, why would the results take another 60 days?


I got this email too, it gave me a pre-halloween scare. I don't think it's a rejection. It does make me wonder if people have started receiving calls yet, though. I actually got on here today just to check if anyone posted about calls.

Best of luck. I'll post results whenever I get them, whatever they may be.


Nope, not a rejection. I got the same email around this time last year. SJA called me on November 3 or 4th with the good news. It takes a while to finalize the list.

lharle
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Re: Military Law

Postby lharle » Sat Oct 28, 2017 7:36 pm

I very much appreciate the responses from everyone above ^^^. Will continue to keep my fingers crossed.

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MarkfromWI
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Re: Military Law

Postby MarkfromWI » Sun Oct 29, 2017 1:20 pm

aka123 wrote:
G1nOut wrote:
lharle wrote:Did anyone else get this e-mail?

Thank you for applying to the Air Force JAG Corps' October 2017 Direct Appointment Program (DAP) board.

The October DAP board has met, however results may not be released in time for non-selects to apply for the December DAP board. Everyone can apply to the December DAP board and if you are selected for the October DAP board we will withdraw your December DAP board application. The December DAP board application deadline is 10 November 2017.

Selection results will be released within 60 days. Selectees will receive a phone call and non-selects will receive an email or a letter in the mail.


1. The subject line and first sentence freaked me out.
2. This isn't a rejection, is it?
3. What's the issue? If the Board has met, why would the results take another 60 days?


I got this email too, it gave me a pre-halloween scare. I don't think it's a rejection. It does make me wonder if people have started receiving calls yet, though. I actually got on here today just to check if anyone posted about calls.

Best of luck. I'll post results whenever I get them, whatever they may be.


Nope, not a rejection. I got the same email around this time last year. SJA called me on November 3 or 4th with the good news. It takes a while to finalize the list.



I think the 60 days part is just their way of avoiding giving any sort of a deadline that angsty applicants might try to hold them to. I've noticed that on Facebook they will reply with some variant of "Results will be posted in 30-60 days" any time someone asks when results will be released, regardless of how long it's been since the application deadline. [For example, after this year's April board someone asked in about late June or so when the results would be posted and they said "30-60 days," and results came out on July 10th]. ETA: Bracketed information is incorrect. Results of April board were released in May.

For what it's worth, I did some digging through this thread and it looks like the results release dates for the last three years (or, at least, when the news made it to this thread) were: Monday, Nov. 7, 2016; Friday, Oct. 30, 2015; and Friday, Nov. 7, 2014.
Last edited by MarkfromWI on Tue Nov 07, 2017 8:31 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Quasar
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Re: Military Law

Postby Quasar » Wed Nov 01, 2017 5:32 pm

Before I ask my question I wanted to thank everyone who has contributed to this thread. It has been tremendously helpful and the insight provided is greatly appreciated.

Current 2L putting together an application for the AF OYCP program. My school has an AF detachment on campus and the recruiting captain suggested that I take the AFOQT and submit my test results for the January board. Wanted to hear the community's opinion on whether an AFOQT score can shed a positive light on my application, or is it a non-factor?

Also, I recently interviewed for a summer internship position with USCG JAG. I haven't seen the Coast Guard as a topic of discussion.

Things mentioned throughout my interview that piqued my interest:

- very small group (I believe 227 JAGS was the number given)
- longer assignments than the other branches (3-4 years)
- begin service as an O-3
- attractive locations, especially if you have a significant other and need to relocate - ample opportunity to find employment in these bigger cities.

Does anyone have personal experience or knowledge they can share?
Last edited by Quasar on Thu Nov 02, 2017 12:26 am, edited 1 time in total.

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usn26
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Re: Military Law

Postby usn26 » Wed Nov 01, 2017 6:01 pm

Quasar wrote:Also, I recently interviewed for a summer internship position with USCG JAG. I haven't seen the Coast Guard as a topic of discussion.

Things mentioned throughout my interview that peaked my interest:

- very small group (I believe 227 JAGS was the number given)
- longer assignments than the other branches (3-4 years)
- begin service as an O-3
- attractive locations, especially if you have a significant other and need to relocate - ample opportunity to find employment in these bigger cities.

Does anyone have personal experience or knowledge they can share?


(It's "piqued")

1) This is true, and I think it's a real benefit, but keep in mind that even the larger branches are relatively small communities, particularly within the respective services. (I'll let other talk about how JAG Corps size impacts the other branches)
2) This is a nice little bonus, but we're talking about just one year, at most, of slightly higher rank/pay. And unlike the other services where you are rated competitively with other JAGs, most of whom have similar experience, in the USCG you will be ranked against every other USCG officer of the same rank, the vast majority of whom will have four years of O1/2 service and corresponding evals.
3) This is indeed a huge advantage.

I think the Coast Guard is great, but it all depends on what you're looking for. It's a great culture and fascinating work, but if you're all about trial experience, run away and fast. Obviously there's a lot of overlap between the work JAGs do across the services, but the Coast Guard's role as a law enforcement agency and regulator really impacts the type of lawyering that gets done by Coastie JAGs.

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Re: Military Law

Postby Anonymous User » Wed Nov 01, 2017 8:41 pm

Quasar wrote:Before I ask my question I wanted to thank everyone who has contributed to this thread. It has been tremendously helpful and the insight provided is great appreciated.

Current 2L putting together an application for the AF OYCP program. My school has an AF detachment on campus and the recruiting captain suggested that I take the AFOQT and submit my test results for the January board. Wanted to hear the community's opinion on whether an AFOQT score can shed a positive light on my application, or is it a non-factor?

Also, I recently interviewed for a summer internship position with USCG JAG. I haven't seen the Coast Guard as a topic of discussion.

Things mentioned throughout my interview that peaked my interest:

- very small group (I believe 227 JAGS was the number given)
- longer assignments than the other branches (3-4 years)
- begin service as an O-3
- attractive locations, especially if you have a significant other and need to relocate - ample opportunity to find employment in these bigger cities.

Does anyone have personal experience or knowledge they can share?

Sitting Air Force SJA here, thus the anon.

You said a "recruiting captain" suggested the AFOQT - do you mean the Captain at the ROTC detachment? If the online application doesn't call for the AFOQT, then no, I don't think that will help in the slightest. Practically, the selection board is made up of JAGs, and it's possible all 3 will have no idea what the score means. I can pass this question to our recruiting folks, but I really don't think this would be helpful.

I would also be interested in hearing from those with Coast Guard experience. My recollection is that they're a little like the Marines in that you might not always be in a legal billet, but I could be making that up. The locations are no joke, though. I went to a training course that had two Coasties - one from New Orleans and the other from Miami. I returned to my frigid land-locked state. The summer with them would be great experience for any branch, so good luck.

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usn26
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Re: Military Law

Postby usn26 » Wed Nov 01, 2017 9:26 pm

Anonymous User wrote:I would also be interested in hearing from those with Coast Guard experience. My recollection is that they're a little like the Marines in that you might not always be in a legal billet, but I could be making that up.


That is correct. USCG legal officers are line officers and are not limited to legal billets. Because nearly (more than?) half of CG JAGs are funded Academy/OCS types, it is very commont to go "out of specialty" once or more throughout a career. Unfortunately, many career fields (e.g. anything on a cutter) require prior experience at the O1/O2 level, so they are effectively closed to direct commission lawyers. And of those types of jobs that are open, usually you have to take a less-desirable job, as the best will go to people actually in that specialty or with background in that specialty (its just hard to jump into anything at the O3/O4 level). That said, it happens all the time and its one of the coolest things about CG JAG service.

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Patrick Bateman
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Re: Military Law

Postby Patrick Bateman » Wed Nov 01, 2017 9:35 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
Quasar wrote:Before I ask my question I wanted to thank everyone who has contributed to this thread. It has been tremendously helpful and the insight provided is great appreciated.

Current 2L putting together an application for the AF OYCP program. My school has an AF detachment on campus and the recruiting captain suggested that I take the AFOQT and submit my test results for the January board. Wanted to hear the community's opinion on whether an AFOQT score can shed a positive light on my application, or is it a non-factor?


Sitting Air Force SJA here, thus the anon.

You said a "recruiting captain" suggested the AFOQT - do you mean the Captain at the ROTC detachment? If the online application doesn't call for the AFOQT, then no, I don't think that will help in the slightest. Practically, the selection board is made up of JAGs, and it's possible all 3 will have no idea what the score means. I can pass this question to our recruiting folks, but I really don't think this would be helpful.

I would also be interested in hearing from those with Coast Guard experience. My recollection is that they're a little like the Marines in that you might not always be in a legal billet, but I could be making that up. The locations are no joke, though. I went to a training course that had two Coasties - one from New Orleans and the other from Miami. I returned to my frigid land-locked state. The summer with them would be great experience for any branch, so good luck.


Agreed with our Anon SJA - I am not aware of the AFOQT for OCYP and a few minutes scanning the requirements online, I cannot see any requirement there. If the suspicion of Anon SJA is correct and you talked to a non JAX "recruiter": disregard whatever they told you. JAG accessions in the AF are a totally different animal and any other line officer cannot speak to the process or requirements. Talk to the folks at JAX.

Anonymous User
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Re: Military Law

Postby Anonymous User » Wed Nov 01, 2017 9:37 pm

Is there any sort of chance for anyone who has done a hard drug one time (think cocaine, lsd) to get a medical waiver for the JAG if the use was at least two years ago?

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Quasar
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Re: Military Law

Postby Quasar » Thu Nov 02, 2017 12:24 am

usn26 wrote:1) This is true, and I think it's a real benefit, but keep in mind that even the larger branches are relatively small communities, particularly within the respective services. (I'll let other talk about how JAG Corps size impacts the other branches)

Very true.

The CG JAGs I interviewed with really made it a point to emphasize how tight-knit they were, even for a career path as specialized as JAG.

anon wrote:You said a "recruiting captain" suggested the AFOQT - do you mean the Captain at the ROTC detachment? If the online application doesn't call for the AFOQT, then no, I don't think that will help in the slightest. Practically, the selection board is made up of JAGs, and it's possible all 3 will have no idea what the score means. I can pass this question to our recruiting folks, but I really don't think this would be helpful.

Bateman wrote:Agreed with our Anon SJA - I am not aware of the AFOQT for OCYP and a few minutes scanning the requirements online, I cannot see any requirement there. If the suspicion of Anon SJA is correct and you talked to a non JAX "recruiter": disregard whatever they told you. JAG accessions in the AF are a totally different animal and any other line officer cannot speak to the process or requirements. Talk to the folks at JAX.

Thanks for the feedback, I had the suspicion that the AFOQT would be a non-factor for the board.

His official title is "Recruiting Flight Commander," but he is not the Commander. The Commander of the detachment is a Lt. Col. In his defense, he made it clear to me that JAG was not something he was too familiar with and that he mainly dealt with undergrad recruitment for the ROTC program.

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Re: Military Law

Postby Anonymous User » Thu Nov 02, 2017 10:39 am

Anonymous User wrote:Is there any sort of chance for anyone who has done a hard drug one time (think cocaine, lsd) to get a medical waiver for the JAG if the use was at least two years ago?


Doubtful. And it's not a medical waiver you would have to get. You'd need a waiver for prior drug use. Is this drug use documented anywhere? Usually having any hard drug use within 7 years will be a hard DQ...marijuana is generally waived if greater than a year ago and not habitual/long term use.

Anonymous User
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Re: Military Law

Postby Anonymous User » Thu Nov 02, 2017 3:00 pm

Anonymous User wrote:Is there any sort of chance for anyone who has done a hard drug one time (think cocaine, lsd) to get a medical waiver for the JAG if the use was at least two years ago?


I took a Scheduled II drug (a prescription pill frequently used for ADD, let's say) once my freshman year of college. It didn't hamper my application BUT I had to repeatedly explain (1) the circumstances around my use (2) why I would never do it again (3) repeatedly show them why it was wrong and that I know that. Mind you this was 7 years ago.

frankbeans
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Re: Military Law

Postby frankbeans » Thu Nov 02, 2017 3:25 pm

Regarding hard drug use - in my time as a Soldier, I knew of others who had used and were granted top secret clearances. But, this was approximately five to seven years ago, and Officers may be held to a higher standard than Enlisted. Be prepared to thoroughly detail your past use, express remorse, etc.

alperry1230
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Re: Military Law

Postby alperry1230 » Thu Nov 02, 2017 3:38 pm


I think the 60 days part is just their way of avoiding giving any sort of a deadline that angsty applicants might try to hold them to. I've noticed that on Facebook they will reply with some variant of "Results will be posted in 30-60 days" any time someone asks when results will be released, regardless of how long it's been since the application deadline. For example, after this year's April board someone asked in about late June or so when the results would be posted and they said "30-60 days," and results came out on July 10th.

For what it's worth, I did some digging through this thread and it looks like the results release dates for the last three years (or, at least, when the news made it to this thread) were: Monday, Nov. 7, 2016; Friday, Oct. 30, 2015; and Friday, Nov. 7, 2014.


Thank you for taking the time to find this info! Much appreciated.

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Re: Military Law

Postby Anonymous User » Thu Nov 02, 2017 4:23 pm

frankbeans wrote:Regarding hard drug use - in my time as a Soldier, I knew of others who had used and were granted top secret clearances. But, this was approximately five to seven years ago, and Officers may be held to a higher standard than Enlisted. Be prepared to thoroughly detail your past use, express remorse, etc.


Current Army Officer recruiter here (and 0L), hard drug use is a permanent disqualifier for Officers (Army) per Army Regulation 601-210. A waiver may be available based on the needs of the service at the time of application. Hope this answers your question.

Anonymous User
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Re: Military Law

Postby Anonymous User » Mon Nov 06, 2017 11:31 am

I submitted my application for the AF OYCP over the weekend. At the end I selected the base where I want to interview with the SJA. Will they contact me to schedule, or do I need to reach out to them? The application wasn't too clear.

alperry1230
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Re: Military Law

Postby alperry1230 » Mon Nov 06, 2017 12:07 pm

The SJA at that base will call you to set up the interview.




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