Military Law

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Anonymous User
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Re: Military Law

Postby Anonymous User » Sat Jun 10, 2017 2:17 am

heyarnold wrote:
^^^ It's really just a one-month long commitment for 2L summer via OYCP


That still kills working a big law gig...

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Re: Military Law

Postby Anonymous User » Wed Jun 14, 2017 8:53 pm

Depending on the firm, no it doesn't. I did a similar thing last summer.

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JAG Marine Lawyer, set to deploy pending physical

Postby Anonymous User » Thu Jun 15, 2017 2:56 am

Been in contact with a Lt. from Marines to recruit me via JAG. All documents are forwarded over and he said only thing now is I need to just pass the physical exam and I'm in. Is this program still beneficial? I do have political aspirations so it's likely I'd be joining in November if I fail the bar again (3rd attempt). I didn't like billing hours in insurance defense and litigation much, so unless I'm in sports or compliance or politics somehow, I don't know what else I'd do but getting older and just failing this exam has ran it's course. This is my last try here. Appreciate any input

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TheSpanishMain
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Re: JAG Marine Lawyer, set to deploy pending physical

Postby TheSpanishMain » Thu Jun 15, 2017 6:22 am

I assume this is gladiatoroflaw again? Here goes.

1. You can't be a JAG without passing the bar. How were you doing insurance defense and litigation without having passed?
2. That's not what "deploy" means. How much do you actually know about the military? You seem completely lost. Have you actually been offered a commission, or just offered a chance to apply?
3. Is English your first language?

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Mickfromgm
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Re: JAG Marine Lawyer, set to deploy pending physical

Postby Mickfromgm » Thu Jun 15, 2017 7:50 am

TheSpanishMain wrote:I assume this is gladiatoroflaw again? Here goes.

1. You can't be a JAG without passing the bar. How were you doing insurance defense and litigation without having passed?
2. That's not what "deploy" means. How much do you actually know about the military? You seem completely lost. Have you actually been offered a commission, or just offered a chance to apply?
3. Is English your first language?


I am a bit confused by the post, too. OP, can you explain those points?

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encore1101
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Re: JAG Marine Lawyer, set to deploy pending physical

Postby encore1101 » Thu Jun 15, 2017 9:20 am

Like TSM said, there's some confusion here. You can't become a JAG without being admitted in at least one state, so it doesn't make sense that you'd "be joining in November if [you] fail the bar," unless you're already admitted in a different state.

"To deploy" has a special meaning in the military. When I read the title, I thought you were "deploying" to Iraq or Afghanistan, or, at the very least, a MEU. Being shipped off to boot camp/OCI is not deploying.

Joining any military branch is a huge decision by itself, but the Marines make its JAG officers go through OCS alongside candidates gunning to be Force Recon platoon commanders, unlike other branches that offer an accelerated program for its JAG officers. I don't know your physical and mental hardiness, but I hope you're ready for that. Additionally, are you comfortable with the fact that you may be assigned to a duty station anywhere around the world or that you'd deploy alongside your unit to Iraq or Afghanistan (fobbit, but deploy, nonetheless).

Do you know what the "physical exam" consists of? Not just the finger up the butt, but a perfect score on a Marine PFT is 100 crunches, 20 pull-ups and 3 miles in 18 minutes. Not everybody gets a perfect score, but officers, even JAGs, are expected to be towards the top of that range.

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Re: Military Law

Postby Anonymous User » Thu Jun 15, 2017 10:38 am

What are some of the assignments you can get in Air Force JAG once you've gained some experience as an officer (6-10 years in maybe)? I understand eventually most JAGs will wind up serving as SJAs for various commands, but Im wondering what some of the other opportunities you'd be working towards are if you stay in past the time most people separate.

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Re: JAG Marine Lawyer, set to deploy pending physical

Postby Anonymous User » Thu Jun 15, 2017 10:53 am

Does Marine JAG not have the same selection board process as the other branches? Is it really as simple as passing the fitness test and getting through OCS? (not that those aren't serious hurdles, but they are pretty straightforward).

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Re: JAG Marine Lawyer, set to deploy pending physical

Postby TheSpanishMain » Thu Jun 15, 2017 11:19 am

Anonymous User wrote:Does Marine JAG not have the same selection board process as the other branches? Is it really as simple as passing the fitness test and getting through OCS? (not that those aren't serious hurdles, but they are pretty straightforward).


The Marine process is a little different, but still very competitive and rigorous AFAIK. That's why I'm a little skeptical that OP actually got an offer to do Marine JAG. If it's who I'm thinking of, he/she was in another thread talking about how they were going to join "the Marine Core."

I wonder if OP is confusing an opportunity to apply with actually being selected. Like, I wonder if the recruiter is telling him/her "Yeah, if you do x, y, and z, we can submit an application packet for you."

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anon sequitur
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Re: JAG Marine Lawyer, set to deploy pending physical

Postby anon sequitur » Thu Jun 15, 2017 11:52 am

This is a pretty obvious drunk post, don't read too much into it.

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Patrick Bateman
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Re: Military Law

Postby Patrick Bateman » Thu Jun 15, 2017 2:16 pm

Anonymous User wrote:What are some of the assignments you can get in Air Force JAG once you've gained some experience as an officer (6-10 years in maybe)? I understand eventually most JAGs will wind up serving as SJAs for various commands, but Im wondering what some of the other opportunities you'd be working towards are if you stay in past the time most people separate.


This is a really good question that I don't think the board has addressed directly.

Your time as an Air Force JAG can be viewed as generally alternating between two types of work: 1) specialty work that is focused on a particular subject matter - this is usually as part of AFLOA (but not necessarily at AFLOA at JB Andrews) where you are working for other lawyers and 2) more generalist work as part of, or leading, a legal staff for an operational commander at the Wing, NAF, or MAJCOM level.

You first 3-4 years generally are going to be in the second category - you will be at a base legal office that works for the commander of that particular Wing or Center. Your immediate boss will be the SJA but the senior rater will be that commander. You will be assigned to a particular subject matter (military justice, environmental, etc) but all sorts of other work creeps in that forces you to be more of a generalist - you will be trying courts, participating in base exercises, doing legal assistance, etc.

You can then break out of that and take a specialty job like ADC for those good in the courtroom, do different types of civil law like medical law or commercial litigation. After a couple years in that job, you may move into a more senior specialty assignment (becoming a senior trial counsel or appellate counsel after being an ADC for example) or be forced back into the real Air Force as a DSJA at a smaller wing or in a staff position at a NAF legal office. For those folks who did a second specialty job, they will very likely end up on a legal staff for some level of command as a follow on.

So, to directly answer your question - years 6-10 can often have you spending two years doing a specialist job and then two years on a legal staff. This assignment pattern continues for the rest of your career, though you obviously will be expected to continue taking greater leadership roles in both the specialist job and the staff jobs.

The type of specialist jobs will be guided by whatever your specialty is (duh). If you are a military justice type that has gone from ADC to STC/SDC/Appellate, you may be able to become a military (trial) judge once you are at the junior Lt Col level. Colonels can be selected to serve as appellate judges at AFCCA. You can take leadership roles as the Chief Senior Trial Counsel or a Chief Senior Defense Counsel.

There is also the LLM program, which will obviously give you a new specialty, as well as a bunch of Federal fellowships and other prestigious programs where you get to staff high-level folks at the Pentagon/Congress/etc.

It may go without saying but what I’ve talked about is just a general template – I know folks that have been within AFLOA in specialty jobs for a really long time (for example – ADC to STC to Appellate and even to a Regional Chief STC after that). That is not always the best thing from a career progression and promotion standpoint, but that is another post for another time. Alternatively, some folks may pick a few consecutive leadership positions at base legal offices, such as going from a DSJA to then being an SJA (or SJA to SJA).

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Re: JAG Marine Lawyer, set to deploy pending physical

Postby Anonymous User » Sat Jun 17, 2017 11:21 am

Anon only because I would out myself on other posts, not because I wouldnt be more than happy to say this in person.

OP-- stay away from the Marine Corps. You join the Corps as an officer because you want to be a leader of Marines and serve your country, not for political aspirations. If you join for those reasons, you are doing a disservice to the Marines you will be leading and to the Marines you will be representing-- both in the courtroom and in the broader history and tradition of the Marine Corps.

@encore-- PFT standards changed this year. For the youngins you now need more then 100 sit ups and more than 20 pull ups. Forget the exact numbers off the top of my head since I'm out now and living the comfortable law school life :D . OP could be talking about a medical physical, which is a trip to MEPS that's a check in the box unless you have some preexisting medical conditions-- then they start the waiver process.

For any other prospective Marine Judge Advocates that come through this thread-- definitely consider it. The Marine Corps was one of the best experiences of my life and I got to serve with some amazing people. Just make sure you're doing it for the right reasons or the 10 weeks of OCS, 6 months of TBS (these two things will be done in the freezing cold or sweltering heat in the woods of Quantico, VA), and deployments around the world will make you miserable... and as I mentioned-- you'd be doing a disservice to your Marines if you arent fully committed and putting their needs first.

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Re: JAG Marine Lawyer, set to deploy pending physical

Postby Anonymous User » Sat Jun 17, 2017 1:19 pm

Haven't been able to find great information on the Marine JAG application process. Could someone just break down the basics, particularly how the process differs from the other branches?

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Re: JAG Marine Lawyer, set to deploy pending physical

Postby Anonymous User » Sat Jun 17, 2017 2:38 pm

Anonymous User wrote:Haven't been able to find great information on the Marine JAG application process. Could someone just break down the basics, particularly how the process differs from the other branches?


This is the anon from the post above you. I don't know the differences between the other branches and I was not a JA but generally you will need to engage with an OSO (Officer Selection Officer). This will generally be a captain who is in a "b-billet" (not doing his or her normal job as a logistics officer, lawyer, intel, etc and instead is recruiting officers). They are usually responsible for a few campuses in a geographic area and you can google to find yours. They are recruiting for 3 types of contracts-- air, ground, and law. They don't have much to promise you-- it's about becoming a Marine officer. Tho there may be some minor tuition assistance after you complete OCS (a couple thousand at most when I went through... long ago so it may have changed). Once in contact, they'll evaluate you based on your school, grades, LSAT/SAT, and physical fitness scores for the PFT and (maybe) the CFT. The scoring scales for these recently changed but if you can run 3mi in less than 21 min, do at least 15 pull ups, and 100 sit ups in 2 min then you're in a good starting position, but the more you beat those numbers the more competitive you are. You'll also need to complete a physical.

If you are accepted on a board, you'll go to OCS for 10 weeks in Quantico. It's like an extended and very intense job interview. About 1/3 are dropped for various reasons. If it's for injury, they'll generally be favorable to you applying again. At graduation, you'll commission as a 2ndLt and drop to the inactive reserves. Go and finish your degree then you go to 6 months of the basic school (TBS) where you learn the basics of being a Marine officer and leading units up to the platoon reinforced level. You'll do all of this side by side with your air and ground fellow Marines. After TBS, you will go to the Judge Advocate school and then onto assignment in the fleet.

I'll leave it to folks that have gone through the law pipeline to give better details, but figured I could at least provide a starting point.

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A. Nony Mouse
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Re: Military Law

Postby A. Nony Mouse » Sat Jun 17, 2017 2:40 pm

There is a whole thread devoted to the military law jobs, filled with very knowledgable people, so I've merged this topic. You will find a lot of information here.

Roclandsfinest23
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Re: Military Law

Postby Roclandsfinest23 » Mon Jun 19, 2017 8:29 am

Any updates from those AD Army selects hoping to get into the October class? All my documents are submitted but haven't heard anything for about a month now.

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Med Requirements - Military Law

Postby Anonymous User » Mon Jun 19, 2017 9:38 am

Does anybody know if the medical requirements are the same for JAG as active duty? I am considering applying for Army or Navy JAG. However, I am worried about the medical requirements do to some medical history. Long story short, I have a small metal plate in my head as a result of an accident some time ago. I applied to West Point for college but was told I was medically disqualified. I have sent some emails out to both Army and Navy but haven't heard back. Any advice would help.

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TheSpanishMain
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Re: Med Requirements - Military Law

Postby TheSpanishMain » Mon Jun 19, 2017 10:43 am

Anonymous User wrote:Does anybody know if the medical requirements are the same for JAG as active duty? I am considering applying for Army or Navy JAG. However, I am worried about the medical requirements do to some medical history. Long story short, I have a small metal plate in my head as a result of an accident some time ago. I applied to West Point for college but was told I was medically disqualified. I have sent some emails out to both Army and Navy but haven't heard back. Any advice would help.


JAG is active duty, unless you're a reservist. "Active duty" just means someone who is in the military full time. It has nothing to do with what your particular job in the military is. A Navy SEAL and an administrative clerk are both equally "active duty."

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Patrick Bateman
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Re: Military Law

Postby Patrick Bateman » Mon Jun 19, 2017 2:43 pm

If any of you aspiring JAGs are in the DC area this summer, I would recommend checking out this program:

https://www.facebook.com/USAFJAG/photos ... =3&theater

June 22nd, 1-3 PM, at CAAF.

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Re: Military Law

Postby Anonymous User » Tue Jun 20, 2017 10:31 am

I am reserve waiting on the October class, and I have not heard anything. I know JARO is extremely busy; it is like a four man show up there.

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Re: Military Law

Postby Anonymous User » Tue Jun 20, 2017 10:37 am

Anonymous User wrote:I am reserve waiting on the October class, and I have not heard anything. I know JARO is extremely busy; it is like a four man show up there.

In the same boat as you, but last I heard is that mid/late June we would get more info.

Roclandsfinest23
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Re: Military Law

Postby Roclandsfinest23 » Tue Jun 20, 2017 11:36 am

Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:I am reserve waiting on the October class, and I have not heard anything. I know JARO is extremely busy; it is like a four man show up there.

In the same boat as you, but last I heard is that mid/late June we would get more info.


I hope we get some information towards the end of this month.

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UHB
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Re: Military Law

Postby UHB » Wed Jun 21, 2017 3:02 am

Hello all, I'm an Air Force guy taking the LSAT in October. Has there ever been a definitive list made of T13 schools that will/won't convert scholarships to living stipends for those of us using the G.I. Bill? I'm married, so this factor will likely play into my decisions a bit.

I've been reading through this massive thread a bit and haven't found something like this, forgive me if I've missed it!

AJordan
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Re: Military Law

Postby AJordan » Wed Jun 21, 2017 7:46 am

UHB wrote:Hello all, I'm an Air Force guy taking the LSAT in October. Has there ever been a definitive list made of T13 schools that will/won't convert scholarships to living stipends for those of us using the G.I. Bill? I'm married, so this factor will likely play into my decisions a bit.

I've been reading through this massive thread a bit and haven't found something like this, forgive me if I've missed it!


There's some discussion of this in the TLS Veteran's thread though this is still a pretty new pipeline that will likely just involve you calling places and asking them directly once you've been admitted.

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TheSpanishMain
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Re: Military Law

Postby TheSpanishMain » Wed Jun 21, 2017 7:51 am

UHB wrote:Hello all, I'm an Air Force guy taking the LSAT in October. Has there ever been a definitive list made of T13 schools that will/won't convert scholarships to living stipends for those of us using the G.I. Bill? I'm married, so this factor will likely play into my decisions a bit.

I've been reading through this massive thread a bit and haven't found something like this, forgive me if I've missed it!


To the extent they'll do it at all, it'll be private schools. So you can probably cross UVA, Michigan and Berkeley off your list. At least, when I was applying, every public school I asked about this said they couldn't do it legally.




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