Military Law Forum

[fhqwhgads]

Is it still true that the Air Force does not particularly care about LSAT scores when making their decisions on GLP/OYCP/DAP? I just received my October LSAT score of 156 which will get me in to the school I was planning on going to but, if the AFJAG is interested in LSAT scores, I would take it again because I believe I can do better.

From what I've read on this thread coupled with what I have heard firsthand, LSAT scores are not necessarily a make or break factor with JAG, but they are indeed a factor. For example, in the Navy they use some combined calculation of your LSAT and structured interview score as a threshold to weed out certain candidates before even looking at your application.

That being said, I would encourage anyone who believes he/she can do better on the LSAT to retake it. Although I am someone who wishes sayings like "you are not a number" and "you are not your grades" were true, law school has proven otherwise time and time again. A better score will pay dividends for years to come in opening the door to higher ranked schools, potential scholarships, and many job opportunities.

[Anonymous User]

Is it still true that the Air Force does not particularly care about LSAT scores when making their decisions on GLP/OYCP/DAP? I just received my October LSAT score of 156 which will get me in to the school I was planning on going to but, if the AFJAG is interested in LSAT scores, I would take it again because I believe I can do better.

From what I've read on this thread coupled with what I have heard firsthand, LSAT scores are not necessarily a make or break factor with JAG, but they are indeed a factor. For example, in the Navy they use some combined calculation of your LSAT and structured interview score as a threshold to weed out certain candidates before even looking at your application.

That being said, I would encourage anyone who believes he/she can do better on the LSAT to retake it. Although I am someone who wishes sayings like "you are not a number" and "you are not your grades" were true, law school has proven otherwise time and time again. A better score will pay dividends for years to come in opening the door to higher ranked schools, potential scholarships, and many job opportunities.

I'm definitely not looking to apply to the Navy. I'm Air Force or bust on the JAG front. So I really just want to know how much the Air Force takes it into consideration. After reading this whole thread, most of the AF JAG officers seemed to suggest that the Air Force only cares about whether you took the LSAT and "passed" it. I was just looking to see if any current AF JAG people had a perspective on this. Since I know for sure that I will get into the school I want to go to with my current score, I'm not really looking to drop $175 more to take it again if the Air Force isn't going to look at it any more than a glance.

[Backload]

Is it still true that the Air Force does not particularly care about LSAT scores when making their decisions on GLP/OYCP/DAP? I just received my October LSAT score of 156 which will get me in to the school I was planning on going to but, if the AFJAG is interested in LSAT scores, I would take it again because I believe I can do better.

From what I've read on this thread coupled with what I have heard firsthand, LSAT scores are not necessarily a make or break factor with JAG, but they are indeed a factor. For example, in the Navy they use some combined calculation of your LSAT and structured interview score as a threshold to weed out certain candidates before even looking at your application.

That being said, I would encourage anyone who believes he/she can do better on the LSAT to retake it. Although I am someone who wishes sayings like "you are not a number" and "you are not your grades" were true, law school has proven otherwise time and time again. A better score will pay dividends for years to come in opening the door to higher ranked schools, potential scholarships, and many job opportunities.

I'm definitely not looking to apply to the Navy. I'm Air Force or bust on the JAG front. So I really just want to know how much the Air Force takes it into consideration. After reading this whole thread, most of the AF JAG officers seemed to suggest that the Air Force only cares about whether you took the LSAT and "passed" it. I was just looking to see if any current AF JAG people had a perspective on this. Since I know for sure that I will get into the school I want to go to with my current score, I'm not really looking to drop $175 more to take it again if the Air Force isn't going to look at it any more than a glance.

Taking again will cost you $175 now but could save you thousands of dollars in the future.

I also think response you will get is retake because a lot can change during 3 years of law school and you may want to do something other than AF JAG.

[S. Goodman]

I'm definitely not looking to apply to the Navy. I'm Air Force or bust on the JAG front. So I really just want to know how much the Air Force takes it into consideration. After reading this whole thread, most of the AF JAG officers seemed to suggest that the Air Force only cares about whether you took the LSAT and "passed" it. I was just looking to see if any current AF JAG people had a perspective on this. Since I know for sure that I will get into the school I want to go to with my current score, I'm not really looking to drop $175 more to take it again if the Air Force isn't going to look at it any more than a glance.

What fueled your decision to choose once branch over the other? Why "Air Force or Bust"?

[skylaws]

Is it still true that the Air Force does not particularly care about LSAT scores when making their decisions on GLP/OYCP/DAP? I just received my October LSAT score of 156 which will get me in to the school I was planning on going to but, if the AFJAG is interested in LSAT scores, I would take it again because I believe I can do better.

If you think you can do better, you should retake. Even if a low or middling LSAT score doesn't kill your application, a higher one certainly can't hurt it. Remember that there are hundreds of people applying for very very few positions - you should do everything you possibly can to set yourself apart from your peers, and like it or not, a higher LSAT can do that.

[Anonymous User]

Is it still true that the Air Force does not particularly care about LSAT scores when making their decisions on GLP/OYCP/DAP? I just received my October LSAT score of 156 which will get me in to the school I was planning on going to but, if the AFJAG is interested in LSAT scores, I would take it again because I believe I can do better.

If you think you can do better, you should retake. Even if a low or middling LSAT score doesn't kill your application, a higher one certainly can't hurt it. Remember that there are hundreds of people applying for very very few positions - you should do everything you possibly can to set yourself apart from your peers, and like it or not, a higher LSAT can do that.

What was your LSAT score, if you don't mind me asking?

[skylaws]

Is it still true that the Air Force does not particularly care about LSAT scores when making their decisions on GLP/OYCP/DAP? I just received my October LSAT score of 156 which will get me in to the school I was planning on going to but, if the AFJAG is interested in LSAT scores, I would take it again because I believe I can do better.

If you think you can do better, you should retake. Even if a low or middling LSAT score doesn't kill your application, a higher one certainly can't hurt it. Remember that there are hundreds of people applying for very very few positions - you should do everything you possibly can to set yourself apart from your peers, and like it or not, a higher LSAT can do that.

What was your LSAT score, if you don't mind me asking?

Send me a PM. I don't mind sharing application details, just not going to throw 'em all up in a post.

[howell]

Something else to consider, depending on the service you're applying to, is the chance to get an LLM. In the AF, at the senior Capt/early Maj mark, you have a chance to spend a year on active duty going to school and picking up an LLM. There are a few schools the AF works with, but you have to get accepted to those schools. I don't know if schools turn away LLM applicants (especially in this law school economy), but if you wanted to get into the program at Columbia for example, a higher score might help. If I had known this, I might have retaken and/or delayed my test date. I did fine on the LSAT, but I cut my studying short, because I was relatively sure I could get a score that could get me into the school I wanted to get into. I didn't think the score might get looked at again.

[mkephart]

So, question that I wanted to see if anyone could answer. I want to apply to the school I want to go to early as they do a rolling admissions. If I apply right now and get accepted, could I still take the LSAT again in February? Or does the LSAC know that you've been accepted and not let you?

[harp2458]

Has anyone heard back for the AF October Board (probably not)? We are now in the late October realm.

[skylaws]

So, question that I wanted to see if anyone could answer. I want to apply to the school I want to go to early as they do a rolling admissions. If I apply right now and get accepted, could I still take the LSAT again in February? Or does the LSAC know that you've been accepted and not let you?

You can retake even if you've applied/been admitted already. LSAC doesn't care, they're happy to take your money as often as you want to give it to them.

That said, I think that some schools will hold your application for consideration if you've got a pending LSAT. Not sure though, so maybe check with admissions at the school you want.

[orangeblossom]

Something else to consider, depending on the service you're applying to, is the chance to get an LLM. In the AF, at the senior Capt/early Maj mark, you have a chance to spend a year on active duty going to school and picking up an LLM. There are a few schools the AF works with, but you have to get accepted to those schools. I don't know if schools turn away LLM applicants (especially in this law school economy), but if you wanted to get into the program at Columbia for example, a higher score might help. If I had known this, I might have retaken and/or delayed my test date. I did fine on the LSAT, but I cut my studying short, because I was relatively sure I could get a score that could get me into the school I wanted to get into. I didn't think the score might get looked at again.

What schools does the AF work with for the LLM programs and do they correspond with specific programs (ie. international at x and y but environmental at p and q)?

[Patrick Bateman]

Something else to consider, depending on the service you're applying to, is the chance to get an LLM. In the AF, at the senior Capt/early Maj mark, you have a chance to spend a year on active duty going to school and picking up an LLM. There are a few schools the AF works with, but you have to get accepted to those schools. I don't know if schools turn away LLM applicants (especially in this law school economy), but if you wanted to get into the program at Columbia for example, a higher score might help. If I had known this, I might have retaken and/or delayed my test date. I did fine on the LSAT, but I cut my studying short, because I was relatively sure I could get a score that could get me into the school I wanted to get into. I didn't think the score might get looked at again.

What schools does the AF work with for the LLM programs and do they correspond with specific programs (ie. international at x and y but environmental at p and q)?

If memory serves from last year:

Air & Space Law at McGill (Canada)
Cyber Law at Nebraska
Environmental at GW
Procurement at Army JAG School (I swear we also do this at GW but I don't think anyone ended up there for this past year)
International at Army JAG School & GW
Labor at GW
Military Justice at Army JAG School

There has been some flex to all of this over the years. A year or two back there was a Constitutional Law spot at Columbia but I don't think the 2015-16 academic year folks had that as an option. Why that is a specialty the Air Force is willing to pay for is beyond me. We also used to have slots for National Security at Georgetown but I have not seen that in a while. Similarity, military justice has not been around until the last year or two.

I also know you can sometimes "combine" LLMs depending on what the law school offers - for example, folks that are picked up for environmental at GW have been able to also "double major" with procurement law.

[afangel804]

Is it still true that the Air Force does not particularly care about LSAT scores when making their decisions on GLP/OYCP/DAP? I just received my October LSAT score of 156 which will get me in to the school I was planning on going to but, if the AFJAG is interested in LSAT scores, I would take it again because I believe I can do better.

Like other posters have said, I'm sure the LSAT is a factor but I'll share my personal experience since we scored similar on the LSAT.

I got a 155 and was in the bottom 30% or so of my class and was still accepted through DAP. I am prior service (AF) and that surely helped me out because I didn't have to try as hard to answer the "Why the Air Force" question. Also, I was fortunate enough to have an internship that let me first-chair several trials and hearings as a certified intern which gave me experience to draw off of in my interview. I believe I killed the interview and that's why I was accepted. To give some perspective, I applied to GLP my first year and the interview went poorly. I was denied, of course. Any more questions, PM me.

[Anonymous User]

Has anyone heard back for the AF October Board (probably not)? We are now in the late October realm.

Hopefully today

[harp2458]

Has anyone heard back for the AF October Board (probably not)? We are now in the late October realm.

Hopefully today

Doubt it but I hope. Hell, we might not hear back until December.

[harp2458]

I called the JAG HQ a few days ago and the list had not been released as of that date. Based off the conservation I had I think the release date will get pushed back. I was initially told that results will be released in late October/early November. Obviously late October didn't happen, unless we start hearing today.

Somebody could call Jag HQ and make an inquiry. Then they could post the updated info on this form

[Backload]

I am hoping next week is the week.

But if it is not, I have a question. I know if they do not respond with the OCT AF Board results by the DEC Board deadline, then they said the applications not selected will roll over to the December Board. If this is the case for me, I would like to update my Resume and add an additional LOR. Do you think this would be possible or is there someone I should contact for this?

Thanks!

[harp2458]

I am hoping next week is the week.

But if it is not, I have a question. I know if they do not respond with the OCT AF Board results by the DEC Board deadline, then they said the applications not selected will roll over to the December Board. If this is the case for me, I would like to update my Resume and add an additional LOR. Do you think this would be possible or is there someone I should contact for this?

Thanks!

Yes it will be possible. I have spoken with JAG HQ several times. All October Board non selects will be given an opportunity to update their package before resubmitting. However, I was informed that the window to do this may be short.

[Anonymous User]

I am hoping next week is the week.

But if it is not, I have a question. I know if they do not respond with the OCT AF Board results by the DEC Board deadline, then they said the applications not selected will roll over to the December Board. If this is the case for me, I would like to update my Resume and add an additional LOR. Do you think this would be possible or is there someone I should contact for this?

Thanks!

Yes it will be possible. I have spoken with JAG HQ several times. All October Board non selects will be given an opportunity to update their package before resubmitting. However, I was informed that the window to do this may be short.

I was told a similar thing, but I got the impression that we will be able to resubmit if we receive an answer for OCT Boards before the Nov 10 deadline. They informed me that the applicants not selected would automatically roll over, and did not seem like we could update if that was the case.

[Backload]

I am hoping next week is the week.

But if it is not, I have a question. I know if they do not respond with the OCT AF Board results by the DEC Board deadline, then they said the applications not selected will roll over to the December Board. If this is the case for me, I would like to update my Resume and add an additional LOR. Do you think this would be possible or is there someone I should contact for this?

Thanks!

Yes it will be possible. I have spoken with JAG HQ several times. All October Board non selects will be given an opportunity to update their package before resubmitting. However, I was informed that the window to do this may be short.

I was told a similar thing, but I got the impression that we will be able to resubmit if we receive an answer for OCT Boards before the Nov 10 deadline. They informed me that the applicants not selected would automatically roll over, and did not seem like we could update if that was the case.

That was me. Not sure why it was Anon.

[harp2458]

Well notices are being sent out now.

Non select over here.

[fhqwhgads]

Well notices are being sent out now.

Non select over here.

Harp, did you hear via email?

[harp2458]

Yes, I received an email.

[fhqwhgads]

Yes, I received an email.

Just received it myself. Can confirm rejection letters are going out now. Good luck to those who have yet to hear, and congratulations to those who were selected.