UChicago Law OCI 2019

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Re: UChicago Law OCI 2019

Postby Anonymous User » Wed Aug 28, 2019 3:50 pm

Anonymous User wrote:Anyone hear from Perkins DC? Callback or offers?


Not yet.

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Re: UChicago Law OCI 2019

Postby Anonymous User » Wed Aug 28, 2019 6:24 pm

Anonymous User wrote:Any katten offers out from last week? Any sense of when their hiring committee meets?

Bumping the Katten Chicago question

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Re: UChicago Law OCI 2019

Postby Anonymous User » Thu Aug 29, 2019 11:38 pm

Has anyone that interviewed at Kirkland Chicago last week heard back?

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Re: UChicago Law OCI 2019

Postby Anonymous User » Fri Aug 30, 2019 2:33 am

Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:Anyone hear from Perkins DC? Callback or offers?


Not yet.

I'm aware of a Perkins DC offer

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Re: UChicago Law OCI 2019

Postby Anonymous User » Fri Aug 30, 2019 11:25 am

Has anyone heard from mayer brown Chicago this week?

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Re: UChicago Law OCI 2019

Postby Anonymous User » Sat Aug 31, 2019 8:20 am

Anonymous User wrote:Has anyone that interviewed at Kirkland Chicago last week heard back?


Hiring committee meets after Labor Day.

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Re: UChicago Law OCI 2019

Postby Anonymous User » Mon Sep 02, 2019 4:01 pm

Also an alumnus here.

On the point about folks not getting jobs through OCI, this is completely correct. In fact, a not-insignificant percentage of the people who 'strike out' will never work in biglaw (I'm one of them, and I have several other closer friends who had the same experience). Some will quit law entirely. I know that probably sounds terrifying to you right now, especially looking at your student loan balances, but keep in mind that biglaw interviewers are extremely good at weeding out people who would not succeed in and would absolutely hate biglaw. Even though the experience of striking out was pretty stressful, it ultimately led me to try something else that I enjoyed a lot more, and that I probably wouldn't have found had I not struck out.

Biglaw interviews are not a referendum on your intelligence, worth as a person, or even your abilities as an attorney (or non-attorney if you decide to go that route). If you strike out, it's the first step toward finding a career that you'll really enjoy. Then you have the rest of the year to think creatively and apply to a range of summer jobs that sound like they could feed into a fun and interesting career.


Anonymous User wrote:Alumnus here. Just a couple things:

(1) YP will only really happen at screener stage, as noted by others above, but it isn't as big of a deal as people seem to think. Firms have a pretty good sense of how many offers will be accepted, and they have a general idea of how big a summer class they want, but neither of these numbers are written in stone.

(2) OCS likes to say that basically everyone gets a job. This is true, but not everyone gets that job through OCI. Every year, classes end up shocked by the number of people who strike out of OCI, because OCS is not forthright about this issue. (This annoys me, because it also makes the people who strike out feel really bad about themselves and start to second-guess their approach, which leads me to my last point...)

(3) There may be behind-the-scenes factors that you are not aware of. Chicago's OCI is very late, and some firms come into it with only one or two spots left, sometimes only in corp or only in lit. So even with good grades and a winning personality (lol), you can get dinged because you said you wanted the wrong group. SOME firms are good about being above board on this issue and telling you/the school what they are looking for, but others are not. For an example: I had a great screener at OCI for one of the firm's secondary market locations, and the guy offered me a callback on the spot (told me that they were going to definitely have me come in for one, told me when that office was doing them, and when/from whom I would be hearing back about specific time, etc). After some silence, I reached out and learned that--unbeknownst to even that interviewer--the office I was applying to was hiring only a very specific SINGLE summer (think: patent eligible, etc). I wasn't married to that locale--I thought it was just a better bet for me--and asked to be considered for their other office(s), but was then informed that those were all hired up.

Anyway, good luck. Also remember that scheduling callbacks is hard on the firms. Some places will just take longer than others.

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Re: UChicago Law OCI 2019

Postby Anonymous User » Tue Sep 03, 2019 8:54 am

Not to derail the thread, but as a big law attorney who also initially struck out at OCI...
Anonymous User wrote:... biglaw interviewers are extremely good at weeding out people who would not succeed in and would absolutely hate biglaw.

Mmm I don't think this is true. Like, yeah maybe a basic interview can tell who is REALLY not fit for big law or who is utterly incompetent as a human being, but the number of people in big law who either hate big law and/or are bad at it shows that this isn't really true.... Maybe you didn't mean it this way, but it also sounds a little unnecessarily discouraging to people who are striking out but still want to pursue biglaw. It's definitely not an easy road after striking out, but I feel like telling people "you didn't get through the interviews because you're actually not cut out for it," isn't all that helpful for people who really want it nor is it true.

Anonymous User wrote:Biglaw interviews are not a referendum on your intelligence, worth as a person, or even your abilities as an attorney (or non-attorney if you decide to go that route).

Yes, this is good advice and a good reminder for people struggling through OCI.

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Re: UChicago Law OCI 2019

Postby Anonymous User » Tue Sep 03, 2019 8:43 pm

For 1Ls reading this next year, my biggest takeaway from OCI was not to get complacent about interviews. Once you’re over a certain grading threshold, social skills seem to matter a huge amount, for better or for worse, and if you’re a KJD who’s a tad awkward you should work hard on mock interviews (do as many as possible). Doing detailed research on firms and having even very high grades isn’t a guarantee that you won’t strike out of the level of firms you “should” get based on your grades. And at least one socially awkward but brilliant student struck out entirely.

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Re: UChicago Law OCI 2019

Postby Anonymous User » Wed Sep 04, 2019 12:13 am

Anonymous User wrote:For 1Ls reading this next year, my biggest takeaway from OCI was not to get complacent about interviews. Once you’re over a certain grading threshold, social skills seem to matter a huge amount, for better or for worse, and if you’re a KJD who’s a tad awkward you should work hard on mock interviews (do as many as possible). Doing detailed research on firms and having even very high grades isn’t a guarantee that you won’t strike out of the level of firms you “should” get based on your grades. And at least one socially awkward but brilliant student struck out entirely.


This. One of the “downsides” of attending a T6 school is that your grades only matter in certain bands. After that, interviewing ability and work experience take over. And obviously socially awkward KJDs are at the greatest risk of underperforming their grades which is why everyone should get a year or two of work experience before coming to law school.

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Re: UChicago Law OCI 2019

Postby Anonymous User » Wed Sep 04, 2019 8:47 am

Eh, as a K-J alum, fuck the haters

But do take the process seriously. Recognize that a lot of hiring begins before OCI -- make contacts with alums during 1L year, and go to coffees with alums/mass mail/network before it starts. You want to have done some pre-OCI legwork understanding different firms and meeting with people; do not starting thinking about biglaw for the first time 2 weeks before screeners start.

Also, it is fair to say that if you've never held down a real job before, starting in biglaw is really jumping into the deep end. But you're an adult and you can do it.

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Re: UChicago Law OCI 2019

Postby Anonymous User » Wed Sep 04, 2019 1:45 pm

Anonymous User wrote:Eh, as a K-J alum, fuck the haters

But do take the process seriously. Recognize that a lot of hiring begins before OCI -- make contacts with alums during 1L year, and go to coffees with alums/mass mail/network before it starts. You want to have done some pre-OCI legwork understanding different firms and meeting with people; do not starting thinking about biglaw for the first time 2 weeks before screeners start.

Also, it is fair to say that if you've never held down a real job before, starting in biglaw is really jumping into the deep end. But you're an adult and you can do it.


This is very important. In my experience, OCS would not tell me anything about pre-OCI even when I asked explicitly, this is a classic case where they don’t have your best interests at heart. You’re going to have to figure it out on your own.

There are significant benefits to being in the market you want to practice in your 1L summer. At a minimum you should set up phone calls using who worked where.

Everyone I know who didn’t do pre-OCI regretted it. The best way to do OCI is with a good offer in hand.

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Re: UChicago Law OCI 2019

Postby Anonymous User » Wed Sep 04, 2019 10:02 pm

OCS did not do a good job preparing people for the realities of OCI. This was especially when it came to pre-OCI, and the fact that the New York market in particular had filled a ton of spots via that route. Whether this was intentional on their part or due to lack of information I can't say (and I can't say which is worse), but we were definitely disadvantaged, when combined with the late date of our OCI, because firms had relatively fewer callback spots available than a school who's OCI had been weeks earlier (or if we had been more thoroughly prepped to aggressively pursue pre-OCI options). Ultimately most people will be fine, but it's hard not to feel like things could've been a lot better for a lot of us.

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Re: UChicago Law OCI 2019

Postby Anonymous User » Thu Sep 05, 2019 10:55 am

California also had extensive pre-OCI - someone who wasn’t even a star student came into OCI with ten(!) offers - and DC had some. Only Chicago seemed to have little or none of the markets I know of.

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Re: UChicago Law OCI 2019

Postby Anonymous User » Thu Sep 05, 2019 1:11 pm

Anonymous User wrote:California also had extensive pre-OCI - someone who wasn’t even a star student came into OCI with ten(!) offers - and DC had some. Only Chicago seemed to have little or none of the markets I know of.


Coming into OCI with 10 offers is 1) against NALP rules, and 2 a dick move. Also everyone knows who that person is because they told literally everyone how many offers they had. Future 1ls don't be like that, people just gossip about how shitty you're being and not a great way to make friends.

Second note- in general, this whole forum is a giant pity party. If you didn't do well at OCI consider maybe coming in with less a sense of entitlement. OCS told people all they needed to know to do well- the rest is having a personality (or at least being able to fake one) that people want to work with.

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Re: UChicago Law OCI 2019

Postby Anonymous User » Thu Sep 05, 2019 2:22 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:California also had extensive pre-OCI - someone who wasn’t even a star student came into OCI with ten(!) offers - and DC had some. Only Chicago seemed to have little or none of the markets I know of.


Coming into OCI with 10 offers is 1) against NALP rules, and 2 a dick move. Also everyone knows who that person is because they told literally everyone how many offers they had. Future 1ls don't be like that, people just gossip about how shitty you're being and not a great way to make friends.

Second note- in general, this whole forum is a giant pity party. If you didn't do well at OCI consider maybe coming in with less a sense of entitlement. OCS told people all they needed to know to do well- the rest is having a personality (or at least being able to fake one) that people want to work with.


OCS gave us the minimum you need to succeed, and not even that if you’re in e.g. California. They need to either ban pre-OCI like Stanford or tell students about it.

I feel like another characteristic of this thread is people accusing others of being entitled while coming off as pompous themselves. For non-classically-masculine men, students with social anxiety, etc. “having a personality” interviewers like or learning to fake one isn’t necessarily easy. There’s nothing wrong with warning people who might have problems that they’ll need to put some work in to have the sort of success they want.

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Re: UChicago Law OCI 2019

Postby Anonymous User » Thu Sep 05, 2019 3:24 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:California also had extensive pre-OCI - someone who wasn’t even a star student came into OCI with ten(!) offers - and DC had some. Only Chicago seemed to have little or none of the markets I know of.


Coming into OCI with 10 offers is 1) against NALP rules, and 2 a dick move. Also everyone knows who that person is because they told literally everyone how many offers they had. Future 1ls don't be like that, people just gossip about how shitty you're being and not a great way to make friends.

Second note- in general, this whole forum is a giant pity party. If you didn't do well at OCI consider maybe coming in with less a sense of entitlement. OCS told people all they needed to know to do well- the rest is having a personality (or at least being able to fake one) that people want to work with.


You did well so everyone else either didn't have a personality, was entitled (ironic, btw) or didn't follow OCS guidelines? People strike out all the time despite having none of these issues, and plenty succeed despite having all of these issues.

Also were we on the same OCS emails? Because I would not say that OCS provided robust training/guidelines/mentorship for OCI. I heard the interviewing coaching was useless, for one. And they absolutely should have communicated more about Pre-OCI.

I'll add that there are no NALP rules anymore that prevent you from holding as many offers as you want open. https://www.vault.com/blogs/vaults-law- ... an-for-you

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Re: UChicago Law OCI 2019

Postby Anonymous User » Thu Sep 05, 2019 3:48 pm

At OCS' first all-class meeting before OCI, they told us that OCI should not be the beginning for our applications. They might not have called it "pre-OCI," but OCS did tell us that we shouldn't wait until August to send our first applications.

That said, for future readers of this forum, I agree with the apparent consensus — start sending out applications in June. If possible, know your target city early and spend your 1L summer there. Go to receptions. Ask if you can apply early. Name drop.

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Re: UChicago Law OCI 2019

Postby Anonymous User » Thu Sep 05, 2019 4:02 pm

Anyone heard from Ropes and Gray Chicago?

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Re: UChicago Law OCI 2019

Postby Anonymous User » Thu Sep 05, 2019 4:08 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:California also had extensive pre-OCI - someone who wasn’t even a star student came into OCI with ten(!) offers - and DC had some. Only Chicago seemed to have little or none of the markets I know of.


Coming into OCI with 10 offers is 1) against NALP rules, and 2 a dick move. Also everyone knows who that person is because they told literally everyone how many offers they had. Future 1ls don't be like that, people just gossip about how shitty you're being and not a great way to make friends.

Second note- in general, this whole forum is a giant pity party. If you didn't do well at OCI consider maybe coming in with less a sense of entitlement. OCS told people all they needed to know to do well- the rest is having a personality (or at least being able to fake one) that people want to work with.


You did well so everyone else either didn't have a personality, was entitled (ironic, btw) or didn't follow OCS guidelines? People strike out all the time despite having none of these issues, and plenty succeed despite having all of these issues.

Also were we on the same OCS emails? Because I would not say that OCS provided robust training/guidelines/mentorship for OCI. I heard the interviewing coaching was useless, for one. And they absolutely should have communicated more about Pre-OCI.

I'll add that there are no NALP rules anymore that prevent you from holding as many offers as you want open. https://www.vault.com/blogs/vaults-law- ... an-for-you

You are correct that the NALP rule changed, my apologies. That doesn't change the reality that coming into, and doing a heavy OCI schedule with 10 offers is nothing more than offer collecting to try to show off in front of your classmates at everyone else's detriment, and is a generally shitty thing to do. There is absolutely no reason to hold open 10 offers, it's not that hard to let a couple of firms know you are no longer interested so that they can move on to other people. Same principle as approaching random people to ask about which offers they do or do not have, it's bizarre, unnecessary, and just to flaunt your own success.

OCS did a fine job. If you only heard the interview coaching was useless, you clearly didn't go to it, so it's a bit presumptuous to say OCS wasn't helpful if you didn't take advantage of the resources that were there. They were more than willing to answer any questions, you just have to reach out and get your questions answered rather than assume they are going to find you with a list of answers to every internal question you might have.
Moral of the story:

I'd advise future 1ls to, if they are worried, take advantage of OCS- emails them questions, run by an advisor's office, do multiple practice interviews, etc. Practice interviews are wildly helpful if for nothing else knowing what kind of questions are going to be asked and workshopping decent answers, also a good time to ask the OCS advisor questions. If you are going into a market that doesn't send a heavy presence to OCI, not a bad idea to Pre OCI but not necessary. Going to that market for the summer definitely doesn't hurt, but if you have a compelling reason why you want to go there (undergrad location, home state, family in the area, something reasonable) it's not strictly necessary. Lastly, remember that everyone else is going through the same process at the same time, everyone is stressed- people remember who is walking around being braggadocious and it's not generally seen as a good character trait. Overall, very few people actually strikeout, especially those who use OCS as a resource. OCS will tell you if a firm (or market) might be out of your reach, or is one that you will need to exhibit a decent tie to to grab an offer. Also, if you have multiple offers, and there are some you know aren't in consideration, decline it, especially if it is Pre-OCI, so that firm can give an offer to one of your classmates at OCI. Ultimately remember if you can hold a conversation you'll get at least one offer—plenty of people with less than stellar grades killed it OCI by being genuinely friendly people that people see themselves wanting to work with. (And if you're not a social butterfly and worried about that do as many practice interviews as you can—you can schedule multiple with different advisors, great way to get used to the interview format, practice having a conversation, and shake off some of the nerves).

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Re: UChicago Law OCI 2019

Postby Splurgles23 » Thu Sep 05, 2019 7:20 pm

Anonymous User wrote:

Also were we on the same OCS emails? Because I would not say that OCS provided robust training/guidelines/mentorship for OCI. I heard the interviewing coaching was useless, for one. And they absolutely should have communicated more about Pre-OCI.



LOL? You have no firsthand experience, and you want to use what you "heard" from someone else as the basis to indict people who are only trying to help, or cast blanket aspersions of "uselessness"? This isn't college or high school, you're no longer a kid. You can't blame your problems on someone else (or the "classically masculine" system").

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Re: UChicago Law OCI 2019

Postby Anonymous User » Thu Sep 05, 2019 7:29 pm

Oy.

I did multiple coached interviews, received sterling feedback, and did hellaciously bad at OCI (I got an offer from a good firm, before anyone says I'm just preaching sour grapes). The feedback I received during these coached interviews essentially amounted to "stay the course and have firm-specific stuff to say"--yet that did not yield positive results when push came to shove.

Beyond just the interviews, OCS was not particularly helpful. They did not do a good job of preparing people for OCI (and especially for the realities of the pre-OCI market this year). Telling people that if you did poorly, it's your fault, is not fair the people who are struggling atm. This year in particular has been brutal, and OCS did not do as good a job as it could have in terms of giving people the best advice to maximize their chances of receiving callbacks.

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Re: UChicago Law OCI 2019

Postby Res Ipsa Loquitter » Thu Sep 05, 2019 8:03 pm

Did anyone at Chicago strike out bidding straight NY or primarily NY? How bad was it versus 2018?

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Re: UChicago Law OCI 2019

Postby Anonymous User » Thu Sep 05, 2019 8:09 pm

Anonymous User wrote:Oy.

I did multiple coached interviews, received sterling feedback, and did hellaciously bad at OCI (I got an offer from a good firm, before anyone says I'm just preaching sour grapes). The feedback I received during these coached interviews essentially amounted to "stay the course and have firm-specific stuff to say"--yet that did not yield positive results when push came to shove.

Beyond just the interviews, OCS was not particularly helpful. They did not do a good job of preparing people for OCI (and especially for the realities of the pre-OCI market this year). Telling people that if you did poorly, it's your fault, is not fair the people who are struggling atm. This year in particular has been brutal, and OCS did not do as good a job as it could have in terms of giving people the best advice to maximize their chances of receiving callbacks.


I hadn't thought about the mock interviews, but this was my experience exactly. The general feedback the staffers conveyed was that I was god's gift to law firm interviews, which very evidently was not an impression shared by law firm interviewers. I didn't strike out and I'm going to a great firm, but I was pretty close despite having great grades.

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Re: UChicago Law OCI 2019

Postby Anonymous User » Thu Sep 05, 2019 8:19 pm

Splurgles23 wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:

Also were we on the same OCS emails? Because I would not say that OCS provided robust training/guidelines/mentorship for OCI. I heard the interviewing coaching was useless, for one. And they absolutely should have communicated more about Pre-OCI.



LOL? You have no firsthand experience, and you want to use what you "heard" from someone else as the basis to indict people who are only trying to help, or cast blanket aspersions of "uselessness"? This isn't college or high school, you're no longer a kid. You can't blame your problems on someone else (or the "classically masculine" system").


You don't even go here, quit trolling.



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