3L OCI 2019
Posted: Mon Jun 17, 2019 12:04 pm
Hey - I figured I would get the ball rolling on this. Anyone started mass mailing for 3L OCI or is it too early? I’ve already seen one job posting on my law school’s Symplicity for L&W.
Law School Discussion Forums
https://www.top-law-schools.com/forums/
https://www.top-law-schools.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=23&t=301697
So it wouldn't be weird to start reaching out to genuinely get more info on a law firm's practice areas by talking to people? Also, should we reach out to partners or associates? If associates, should they be more mid-level/senior? I'm honestly just worried that reaching out and then having to email about a position is odd - would the two or three weeks delay be awkward between learning about them and then asking for help?biglaw_advice wrote:For what it's worth, I also think it's too early to apply. I would focus your time on making connections w/ lawyers who may be able to help you in a few months. I'm a midlevel at a big firm, and we don't have a good picture of hiring until after the summer associates have finished their program and we've handed out offers. Other firms may be different, of course. I would strongly recommend reaching out to alums, if possible, at different firms with requests to talk/coffee/lunch and express an interest in their practice. It may not lead to much success but (it sound corny) all you need is one yes. Anything you can do now and over the next few weeks could help you get that yes. Here's a sample email to send that may help you think of ways to make those connections now: https://biglawadvice.com/2018/10/09/sam ... for-alums/
Wow, way to be on your high horse. Did you ever consider that circumstances can change between the fall and the summer that warrant someone having a pressing interest in being in a different location than they originally chose? I know you directed that to future readers, but it was clearly directed at current readers. My position now will lead to a full time position, it just isn't where I want to be any longer for personal reasons.Anonymous User wrote:For people that may read this thread in the future, then you probably didn't plan your 2L summer very well. If you're just looking to trade up that's one thing, but if you actually don't have a 2L summer job that you can turn into a full time position, you probably should've found a way to be in the market that you're trying to get into.
But as for what you can do now? Phone calls with alum who are in the area would probably be your best bet. They'll also know other alum at other firms or have their own friends in the area that they may be able to set you up with, depending on how helpful the individual alum is.
I'm in the same boat. I will likely receive an offer at a great firm in a decent location, but for personal reasons, I'm looking for options in a different locale.Anonymous User wrote:Wow, way to be on your high horse. Did you ever consider that circumstances can change between the fall and the summer that warrant someone having a pressing interest in being in a different location than they originally chose? I know you directed that to future readers, but it was clearly directed at current readers. My position now will lead to a full time position, it just isn't where I want to be any longer for personal reasons.Anonymous User wrote:For people that may read this thread in the future, then you probably didn't plan your 2L summer very well. If you're just looking to trade up that's one thing, but if you actually don't have a 2L summer job that you can turn into a full time position, you probably should've found a way to be in the market that you're trying to get into.
But as for what you can do now? Phone calls with alum who are in the area would probably be your best bet. They'll also know other alum at other firms or have their own friends in the area that they may be able to set you up with, depending on how helpful the individual alum is.
Right, so there are a lot of different people who want to do 3L OCI. There are people who wanted a firm but didn't get one and end up working something public interest/1L summer-like, people who got a firm but just want to trade up, people who want to trade geographic locations, etc. Or any combination of those. And this topic shows up multiple times a year around this time and immediately after 2L OCI in August. I made a point for future readers because someone in the future is going to search this topic trying to see what they should to do plan 3L OCI and it may be ultimately helpful to someone.Anonymous User wrote:Wow, way to be on your high horse. Did you ever consider that circumstances can change between the fall and the summer that warrant someone having a pressing interest in being in a different location than they originally chose? I know you directed that to future readers, but it was clearly directed at current readers. My position now will lead to a full time position, it just isn't where I want to be any longer for personal reasons.Anonymous User wrote:For people that may read this thread in the future, then you probably didn't plan your 2L summer very well. If you're just looking to trade up that's one thing, but if you actually don't have a 2L summer job that you can turn into a full time position, you probably should've found a way to be in the market that you're trying to get into.
But as for what you can do now? Phone calls with alum who are in the area would probably be your best bet. They'll also know other alum at other firms or have their own friends in the area that they may be able to set you up with, depending on how helpful the individual alum is.
I second ALL of this.Anonymous User wrote:What helped the most: Networking like crazy and sending out as many applications as possible. Some of my interviews I got from random applications and others I got from someone I had coffee with who knew someone at a firm that might need to hire 3Ls. Just network with anyone that will get coffee with you. There's very little to lose at this point and a lot to gain if you can pull it off.
Application/Interview process: Very firm dependent. Some firms went straight to a "callback" and that was what the entire decision was based off of. Some firms stuck to the 2L SA application process where it was travel for a screener at your own cost, travel for a paid callback, and then either offer/rejection. Other firms did an informal screener with a "we may have a need and we loved meeting you, we'll be in touch." I ended up getting an offer relatively early that I was happy with so I never followed up with this last group. I don't think I would've been very successful if I had though, it just seemed like they were in no hurry to hire.
No - I don't think it would be weird at all to reach out just to make some touch points with different lawyers. I'd recommend reaching out to associates first and then ask if they recommend speaking to certain partners. That said, I would use alums from your law school as the primary filter.Anonymous User wrote:So it wouldn't be weird to start reaching out to genuinely get more info on a law firm's practice areas by talking to people? Also, should we reach out to partners or associates? If associates, should they be more mid-level/senior? I'm honestly just worried that reaching out and then having to email about a position is odd - would the two or three weeks delay be awkward between learning about them and then asking for help?biglaw_advice wrote:For what it's worth, I also think it's too early to apply. I would focus your time on making connections w/ lawyers who may be able to help you in a few months. I'm a midlevel at a big firm, and we don't have a good picture of hiring until after the summer associates have finished their program and we've handed out offers. Other firms may be different, of course. I would strongly recommend reaching out to alums, if possible, at different firms with requests to talk/coffee/lunch and express an interest in their practice. It may not lead to much success but (it sound corny) all you need is one yes. Anything you can do now and over the next few weeks could help you get that yes. Here's a sample email to send that may help you think of ways to make those connections now: https://biglawadvice.com/2018/10/09/sam ... for-alums/
Thank you for responding! This has been extremely helpful to me thus far. I was wondering if it makes a difference to meet in-person, say for coffee, vs. talking on the phone? I've heard mixed reviews but most seem to say in-person is best. Thoughts?biglaw_advice wrote:No - I don't think it would be weird at all to reach out just to make some touch points with different lawyers. I'd recommend reaching out to associates first and then ask if they recommend speaking to certain partners. That said, I would use alums from your law school as the primary filter.Anonymous User wrote:So it wouldn't be weird to start reaching out to genuinely get more info on a law firm's practice areas by talking to people? Also, should we reach out to partners or associates? If associates, should they be more mid-level/senior? I'm honestly just worried that reaching out and then having to email about a position is odd - would the two or three weeks delay be awkward between learning about them and then asking for help?biglaw_advice wrote:For what it's worth, I also think it's too early to apply. I would focus your time on making connections w/ lawyers who may be able to help you in a few months. I'm a midlevel at a big firm, and we don't have a good picture of hiring until after the summer associates have finished their program and we've handed out offers. Other firms may be different, of course. I would strongly recommend reaching out to alums, if possible, at different firms with requests to talk/coffee/lunch and express an interest in their practice. It may not lead to much success but (it sound corny) all you need is one yes. Anything you can do now and over the next few weeks could help you get that yes. Here's a sample email to send that may help you think of ways to make those connections now: https://biglawadvice.com/2018/10/09/sam ... for-alums/
Lawyers I work with know how the "game" is played - yes people will reach out to us to gain knowledge on our practice, but if they are a rising 2L or 3L, I understand they are looking for an in at the firm. And that's ok! It's part of the process. I value people who reach out and show an interest in the firm - even if it's for job hunting purposes. So many applicants will submit their application online, through Symplicity, etc. and then call it a day.
That's the path of least resistance. When you reach out, there will be awkward convos and it may feel awkward to reach out a few weeks after a call when you apply - do it anyway. Corny and trite but it only takes one person to like you.
Awesome - happy to help. I would recommend in-person. It creates more of a connection and generally facilitates a better conversation that will increase your chances of making a good, lasting impression that can help you get a foot in the door. That said, if in-person isn't an option then I think a phone call is still worth doing. In my experience, phone calls were a bit more awkward because it's (of course) more difficult to pick up on the nuances of the other person and when you're on the phone, the lawyer is probably watching emails come into their inbox and a bit distracted.Flarmanarnar wrote:Thank you for responding! This has been extremely helpful to me thus far. I was wondering if it makes a difference to meet in-person, say for coffee, vs. talking on the phone? I've heard mixed reviews but most seem to say in-person is best. Thoughts?biglaw_advice wrote:No - I don't think it would be weird at all to reach out just to make some touch points with different lawyers. I'd recommend reaching out to associates first and then ask if they recommend speaking to certain partners. That said, I would use alums from your law school as the primary filter.Anonymous User wrote:So it wouldn't be weird to start reaching out to genuinely get more info on a law firm's practice areas by talking to people? Also, should we reach out to partners or associates? If associates, should they be more mid-level/senior? I'm honestly just worried that reaching out and then having to email about a position is odd - would the two or three weeks delay be awkward between learning about them and then asking for help?biglaw_advice wrote:For what it's worth, I also think it's too early to apply. I would focus your time on making connections w/ lawyers who may be able to help you in a few months. I'm a midlevel at a big firm, and we don't have a good picture of hiring until after the summer associates have finished their program and we've handed out offers. Other firms may be different, of course. I would strongly recommend reaching out to alums, if possible, at different firms with requests to talk/coffee/lunch and express an interest in their practice. It may not lead to much success but (it sound corny) all you need is one yes. Anything you can do now and over the next few weeks could help you get that yes. Here's a sample email to send that may help you think of ways to make those connections now: https://biglawadvice.com/2018/10/09/sam ... for-alums/
Lawyers I work with know how the "game" is played - yes people will reach out to us to gain knowledge on our practice, but if they are a rising 2L or 3L, I understand they are looking for an in at the firm. And that's ok! It's part of the process. I value people who reach out and show an interest in the firm - even if it's for job hunting purposes. So many applicants will submit their application online, through Symplicity, etc. and then call it a day.
That's the path of least resistance. When you reach out, there will be awkward convos and it may feel awkward to reach out a few weeks after a call when you apply - do it anyway. Corny and trite but it only takes one person to like you.
To the extent that this is useful info to anyone, I think that most of the Cravath ECB associates are 3L hires (since they often don't get enough summer voluntarily slotting in). I think last summer not a single SA rotated into ECB so they definitely need people.Anonymous User wrote:Davis Polk Finance and Cravath Executive Comps are listed on my school’s Symplicity