Fired summer associate

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Fired summer associate

Postby Anonymous User » Mon Jun 10, 2019 5:16 pm

Fairly self explanatory title. I was a 2L summer at a biglaw firm in a major market. Did something I shouldn't have done and got fired last week. What can I do to save my career? Am I going to be locked out of biglaw forever or is there a way to fix this? Can't post any more details as I would likely be extremely identifiable as I haven't heard of any other summers getting fired this summer so please don't ask.

Npret

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Re: Fired summer associate

Postby Npret » Mon Jun 10, 2019 5:41 pm

Anonymous User wrote:Fairly self explanatory title. I was a 2L summer at a biglaw firm in a major market. Did something I shouldn't have done and got fired last week. What can I do to save my career? Am I going to be locked out of biglaw forever or is there a way to fix this? Can't post any more details as I would likely be extremely identifiable as I haven't heard of any other summers getting fired this summer so please don't ask.


For a summer to get fired is so extreme, I don’t know what to advise. May depend on how stellar your school and grades are for getting a second chance. I would assume that your reputation will follow you at least until you have your first job out of school.

What are your plans for the rest of the summer? You need to find something law related to do.

If this is something that will impact C&F? If so you might look into mitigation of whatever you did. You will have to disclose why you were fired. It will at least raise a red flag.

cavalier1138

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Re: Fired summer associate

Postby cavalier1138 » Mon Jun 10, 2019 6:17 pm

Npret wrote:If this is something that will impact C&F? If so you might look into mitigation of whatever you did. You will have to disclose why you were fired. It will at least raise a red flag.


This was actually my first concern as well. The threshold for getting fired as an SA is pretty fucking high, so you want to get your ducks in a row there.

What's your current situation in terms of school pedigree/grades? In general, you should be trying to find something to do for the rest of the summer, then immediately pounding pavement to get any job after graduation.

impactplayer

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Re: Fired summer associate

Postby impactplayer » Mon Jun 10, 2019 6:37 pm

It's going to be real hard to give you good advice unless you can give us some sort of idea of what it was. I don't think we need details, but just an idea of whether you're facing some sort of legal charges after what happened. A few thoughts below based on pure speculation:

Did you personally offend someone important at the firm? I don't think it will really affect you at all. Just do 3L OCI or mass mailings and find another job.

Did you commit a crime in connection with a summer event (e.g., DWI)? If it's something like DWI, I don't think this will affect you that much but you would obviously want to check with an attorney and look into C&F issues that could arise. It would obviously make the road more difficult, but your career isn't over.

I'm struggling to think of other scenarios that could get one immediately fired from a summer associate gig. Obviously if you committed a serious crime, like assault/battery, you're probably fucked. Theft could be another one.

Npret

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Re: Fired summer associate

Postby Npret » Mon Jun 10, 2019 6:46 pm

impactplayer wrote:It's going to be real hard to give you good advice unless you can give us some sort of idea of what it was. I don't think we need details, but just an idea of whether you're facing some sort of legal charges after what happened. A few thoughts below based on pure speculation:

Did you personally offend someone important at the firm? I don't think it will really affect you at all. Just do 3L OCI or mass mailings and find another job.

Did you commit a crime in connection with a summer event (e.g., DWI)? If it's something like DWI, I don't think this will affect you that much but you would obviously want to check with an attorney and look into C&F issues that could arise. It would obviously make the road more difficult, but your career isn't over.

I'm struggling to think of other scenarios that could get one immediately fired from a summer associate gig. Obviously if you committed a serious crime, like assault/battery, you're probably fucked. Theft could be another one.


Sexual harassment
Use of slurs
Dishonesty about hours or work? Maybe? Plagiarism? Not sure about these.

I’m guessing inappropriate behavior possibly harassment, but it could maybe be something like theft - though hard to see what it might be.

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Re: Fired summer associate

Postby Npret » Mon Jun 10, 2019 7:17 pm

I don’t agree that a DWI after a firm event is not an issue. That will be a concern for any firm looking to hire you.

deanrobbins1

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Re: Fired summer associate

Postby deanrobbins1 » Mon Jun 10, 2019 8:07 pm

good lord what could you possibly have done? how long have summer programs even been going on, two weeks?

I think it is safe to say the biglaw door is closed to you for the moment. start trying to come up with alternate plans

2013

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Re: Fired summer associate

Postby 2013 » Mon Jun 10, 2019 8:31 pm

I was going to assume that s/he got drunk and name dropped some clients and the work s/he’s doing.

From the OP, it doesn’t seem like it’s an end of the world situation.

Johnnybgoode92

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Re: Fired summer associate

Postby Johnnybgoode92 » Mon Jun 10, 2019 8:35 pm

Call career services.

deanrobbins1

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Re: Fired summer associate

Postby deanrobbins1 » Mon Jun 10, 2019 8:42 pm

LMAO "From the OP, it doesn’t seem like it’s an end of the world situation."

they fired him two weeks into the summer associate program. it's a big deal, HTH.

TheatreofDreams

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Re: Fired summer associate

Postby TheatreofDreams » Mon Jun 10, 2019 9:39 pm

Honestly having a hard time believing that someone could get fired 2 weeks in. I believe someone got fired during 2017 for a laundry list of infractions, but it took a lot.
Last edited by QContinuum on Tue Jun 11, 2019 10:38 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Reason: Outed for anon abuse.

IExistedOnceBefore

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Re: Fired summer associate

Postby IExistedOnceBefore » Mon Jun 10, 2019 9:42 pm

Johnnybgoode92 wrote:Call career services.

Yeah this, you may not want to, but you have to. You're likely going to get reamed, but they need to save face with your firm and try and save your ass (not with the firm that's not happening, but they're going to do damage control). This isn't a great situation, but you need to grovel to career services.

I'm also curious as to what happened, usually to get fired mid summer it's egregious, if its not they just wait until the end and no offer you.

You need to call career services.

Npret

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Re: Fired summer associate

Postby Npret » Mon Jun 10, 2019 9:45 pm

Anonymous User wrote:Honestly having a hard time believing that someone could get fired 2 weeks in. I believe someone got fired during 2017 for a laundry list of infractions, but it took a lot.


I agree. It could be a troll, but a silly one.

The only thing I can think of that would be immediate termination is some violation of HR policies - that’s why I go with some kind of seriously inappropriate behavior in a work place setting or at a firm sponsored social event

Getting drunk and dropping a slur would do it as would any type of harassment of another attorney.

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Re: Fired summer associate

Postby Npret » Mon Jun 10, 2019 9:48 pm

IExistedOnceBefore wrote:
Johnnybgoode92 wrote:Call career services.

Yeah this, you may not want to, but you have to. You're likely going to get reamed, but they need to save face with your firm and try and save your ass (not with the firm that's not happening, but they're going to do damage control). This isn't a great situation, but you need to grovel to career services.

I'm also curious as to what happened, usually to get fired mid summer it's egregious, if its not they just wait until the end and no offer you.

You need to call career services.

If OPs story is true, I have no doubt the career services has been informed by the firm behind the scenes. You’re correct - calling career services should happen immediately. They may not acknowledge they’ve already heard about the firing from the firm.
Last edited by Npret on Mon Jun 10, 2019 9:50 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Johnnybgoode92

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Re: Fired summer associate

Postby Johnnybgoode92 » Mon Jun 10, 2019 9:49 pm

I feel for OP. Couldn’t imagine that happening

impactplayer

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Re: Fired summer associate

Postby impactplayer » Mon Jun 10, 2019 9:50 pm

Npret wrote:I don’t agree that a DWI after a firm event is not an issue. That will be a concern for any firm looking to hire you.


Yeah, I don't think I said it would not be an issue. I said I don't think it would affect them too much and certainly isn't the end of their career. Assuming the guy doesn't lie about it, a DWI can easily be recovered from if they own up to it, admit their mistake and focus on how they're working on bettering themselves. I did note that he would have a more difficult road but he can get another biglaw gig if that's what got him fired and he has everything else together.

Npret

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Re: Fired summer associate

Postby Npret » Mon Jun 10, 2019 9:55 pm

impactplayer wrote:
Npret wrote:I don’t agree that a DWI after a firm event is not an issue. That will be a concern for any firm looking to hire you.


Yeah, I don't think I said it would not be an issue. I said I don't think it would affect them too much and certainly isn't the end of their career. Assuming the guy doesn't lie about it, a DWI can easily be recovered from if they own up to it, admit their mistake and focus on how they're working on bettering themselves. I did note that he would have a more difficult road but he can get another biglaw gig if that's what got him fired and he has everything else together.


It’s uncharted territory for me. I’ve seen how people who are no offered hustle and struggle to find work. I just think being fired two weeks in will be a very high burden.

As we’ve mentioned if OP has stellar credentials and can mitigate the firing, they may find biglaw. But I’m not even sure how they approach it.

Npret

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Re: Fired summer associate

Postby Npret » Mon Jun 10, 2019 10:02 pm

Johnnybgoode92 wrote:I feel for OP. Couldn’t imagine that happening

Apparently neither did OP. I wonder if all the talk about 100% offers, how easy the job is as an SA and how minimally competent you need to be to get an offer, has somehow given some people over confidence in the security of their position.

impactplayer

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Re: Fired summer associate

Postby impactplayer » Mon Jun 10, 2019 10:02 pm

Npret wrote:
impactplayer wrote:
Npret wrote:I don’t agree that a DWI after a firm event is not an issue. That will be a concern for any firm looking to hire you.


Yeah, I don't think I said it would not be an issue. I said I don't think it would affect them too much and certainly isn't the end of their career. Assuming the guy doesn't lie about it, a DWI can easily be recovered from if they own up to it, admit their mistake and focus on how they're working on bettering themselves. I did note that he would have a more difficult road but he can get another biglaw gig if that's what got him fired and he has everything else together.


It’s uncharted territory for me. I’ve seen how people who are no offered hustle and struggle to find work. I just think being fired two weeks in will be a very high burden.

As we’ve mentioned if OP has stellar credentials and can mitigate the firing, they may find biglaw. But I’m not even sure how they approach it.


I agree. But, assuming it's not a heinous offense (e.g., battery, sexual assault, etc.), it's helpful that it happened to him as a 2L summer. If it's not a crime that goes on his record, he can just say it wasn't a good fit between him and the firm. I dont think he even needs to say he was fired two weeks in if he's able to find a new job quickly. And if a future firm calls this firm, they'll likely just confirm dates of employment and say nothing more.

But all of this is just speculation until OP actually gives some idea of what happened.

icansortofmath

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Re: Fired summer associate

Postby icansortofmath » Tue Jun 11, 2019 1:13 am

Career services. Getting fired two weeks in is so extreme any detail could out the OP.

deanrobbins1

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Re: Fired summer associate

Postby deanrobbins1 » Tue Jun 11, 2019 2:03 am

your future, might as well embrace now
Last edited by tlsadmin3 on Tue Jun 11, 2019 11:53 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Johnnybgoode92

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Re: Fired summer associate

Postby Johnnybgoode92 » Tue Jun 11, 2019 7:28 am

deanrobbins1 wrote:[Link redacted]

your future, might as well embrace now


What is this
Last edited by QContinuum on Tue Jun 11, 2019 10:40 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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cavalier1138

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Re: Fired summer associate

Postby cavalier1138 » Tue Jun 11, 2019 8:39 am

I hate the internet.

misterjames

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Re: Fired summer associate

Postby misterjames » Tue Jun 11, 2019 10:29 am

Johnnybgoode92 wrote:
deanrobbins1 wrote:[Link redacted]

your future, might as well embrace now


What is this


WOW an AutoAdmit link! Haven't seen one of these in a very long time. AutoAdmit (or xoxohth) is another law forum, but historically was filled with the most cynical, pessimistic and downright awful people in this industry. I think it was, for the most part, 06-09 grads who either lost their big firm jobs right as they were starting or before they even set foot in the door, so maybe their fervor was justified. Regardless, it's filled with petty, unhappy JDs and lawyers for the most part.
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Reason: Edited to redact external link.

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nealric

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Re: Fired summer associate

Postby nealric » Tue Jun 11, 2019 10:50 am

misterjames wrote:
Johnnybgoode92 wrote:
deanrobbins1 wrote:[Link redacted]

your future, might as well embrace now


What is this


WOW an AutoAdmit link! Haven't seen one of these in a very long time. AutoAdmit (or xoxohth) is another law forum, but historically was filled with the most cynical, pessimistic and downright awful people in this industry. I think it was, for the most part, 06-09 grads who either lost their big firm jobs right as they were starting or before they even set foot in the door, so maybe their fervor was justified. Regardless, it's filled with petty, unhappy JDs and lawyers for the most part.


History lesson:

Once upon a time (circa 2004-08), the other law school forums were mostly filled with starry eyed 0Ls debating the relative merits of second and third tier schools. It was very difficult to get real, unvarnished information about law firms and the legal employment market on the internet- especially from the prospective of T14 students and graduates. Xoxo filled that void.

It was originally an offshoot of the Princeton Review forum for LSAT takers who were shooting for top scores and T14 schools. There was a certain self-deprecating pride in the snobbishness of the forum- hence the tagline "the most prestigious law school discussion board in the world." Nevertheless, the forum managed to attract a lot of people who could give you the inside track. The anonymity of the forum (many of the accounts were "community" accounts where may people knew the password) meant information could be shared without fear of reprisal. If you wanted a comparison of the culture at Gibson and Paul Weiss, Xoxo could give it to you, complete with the names of partners to avoid. There were also bitingly sarcastic pieces such as this classic on working at S&C (reposted on TLS):

viewtopic.php?f=23&t=253012

But, there was a distinct darkside even then, and the unmoderated nature of the forum meant that sexist/racist posts were relatively common. There were posters who seemed to thrive on being transgressive, and would make posts consisting of nothing but racist/sexist epithets. But if you were willing to filter that stuff out, there was still useful content.

Then, around 2007, someone on the forum decided to launch a "Women of the T14" contest where they posted photos of students and ranked them by attractiveness (often with vulgar descriptions of their bodies). Women who protested this exercise were viciously attacked. This lead to litigation, the "outing" of some of the anonymous posters, and the eventual unraveling of the forum into what it is today. Most of the posters who actually provided useful information were scared off by the behavior of the miscreants engaging in harassment as well as the litigation.

One would have thought the xoxo forum would have died out entirely a long time ago, but it remains surprisingly active in terms of post volume. While it's clear a plurality of posters tend to have some connection to the legal industry, it mostly seems to be a second-rate 4chan knockoff these days. Evidently, the types of folks who were harassing women back in 2007 are now content to use the platform for racist jokes and inscrutable/vulgar feuds between posters.

Xoxo is a cautionary tale of how people will behave on an unmoderated forum while cloaked by anonymity. I suppose it serves some purpose as a quarantine for the folks who probably shouldn't be posting on TLS.
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Reason: Edited to redact external link.



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