Clerkship to Consulting (MBB)? Forum

[Anonymous User]

Am currently clerking for a federal district court judge in a moderately competitive city. Graduated median-ish from YHS before going into biglaw at V-5 for a year. I did a joint degree so I have another Masters (but not an MBA). Biglaw was bearable primarily because I knew I was leaving to clerk. My clerkship is alright (my judge is a kind and smart boss though the hours are very long and he can be quirky and demanding) but I increasingly find the day-to-day duties of clerking and litigation to be boring, stressful, and lonely. Am now starting to break into a sweat thinking about my post-clerkship plans. Up until now, I had always planned to return to my prior firm and didn't recruit elsewhere during this cycle but the thought of going back to biglaw after not loving the work I've done while clerking just makes me so sad. I have no prior full-time work experience between college and law school/grad school but I have lots of interesting more business-related things in my resume - all in a specific niche industry from outside passion projects. I've always loved working in teams and working on a variety of different things. I think consulting would provide more of that.

Thoughts? Has this been done before? I also wonder if my belated cold feet re. litigation might be more common than people think...

[LBJ's Hair]

I feel like you're going to have a much easier time switching into corporate than consulting and frankly, you have absolutely no reason to think you'll enjoy consulting other than that it is vaguely business-y (although you presumably did not have much interest in business stuff prior to this, given that you have two graduate degrees, neither of which is an MBA) and prestigious.

[QContinuum]

I echo LBJ's Hair above in expressing my reservations about your newly discovered interest in consulting. A few additional thoughts/suggestions below:

I increasingly find the day-to-day duties of clerking and litigation to be boring, stressful, and lonely.

There's not much cure for the stress (consulting's stressful too...), but the boredom should recede as you get more senior/spend less time doing paralegal-esque tasks/doc review. As for being lonely, you're at (or will return to) a V5 and all of 'em have an absolutely massive junior associate class. Try to socialize more with your yearmates! Even if they're not litigators. That's a huge potential friend pool ready for the tapping. Do a bit of reaching out and I predict you'll find quite a few willing to make friends.

(If you're in a tiny satellite office where you're the only associate in your year, consider moving to a larger office - whether that means lateraling or moving to one of your firm's other offices.)

Up until now, I had always planned to return to my prior firm and didn't recruit elsewhere during this cycle but the thought of going back to biglaw after not loving the work I've done while clerking just makes me so sad.

That doesn't really compute. Your experience in BigLaw isn't going to imitate your experience as a clerk. You should know this, having worked in BigLaw for a year before leaving to clerk.

I've always loved working in teams and working on a variety of different things. I think consulting would provide more of that.

Hard to see how a litigator could avoid teamwork and/or avoid working on a variety of different things. If you find the variety and amount of teamwork in BigLaw litigation insufficient, I'm at a loss as to what you would consider sufficient. I don't think consulting would provide significantly more in the way of teamwork or matter variety.

[Anonymous User]

OP here. Thanks for the helpful insight. I fully recognize that part of it has got to be the grass is greener on the other side. Just a few background things to note that might be of interest:

1) My newfound interest in consulting isn't as newfound as I perhaps made it out to be in my post. In undergrad, I had recruited for consulting firms and got final round interviews at 2/3 between MBB. I decided to turn them down in favor of going to law school since that had always been the path I had charted in my head.

2) My spouse was a consultant at MBB for five years before exiting to their current job. Spouse has always thought that consulting would have been a good fit for me. Spouse's current job also is in another city on the opposite coast (without the abundant weekend travel flexibility that they previously had in consulting) which has made this year particularly miserable for me. So while I haven't personally been a consultant, I have been exposed to it well beyond the average biglaw associate/clerk. And for all the long hours and absurd travel demands in consulting, I can count on one hand the number of weekends my spouse had to work in their time in consulting.

3) Without getting into specifics to un-anon myself, I was previously at the NY office of my V-5 but was asked to do a temporary rotation through a rotation satellite office midway through. As a very extroverted and social person, I did enjoy the social life at the NY office but hated the work. My experience in the (very busy and small) satellite office was the exact opposite - I basically was only ever staffed as the sole associate on a matter with a partner/counsel. The work was certainly more interesting, but everything else about it was lonely and stressful (like my clerkship) with little guidance and training. As is par for the course, the worst part of the work was the unpredictability of constantly being on-call anytime and anywhere.

Still understand that my thoughts might just be an unreasonable expression of dread (at going back to biglaw) and desperation. But thought that the above might add more context.

[2013]

As the above have stated, it’ll be exceedingly difficult for you given that you were a litigation associate AND you’re currently in a clerkship. That doesn’t really scream “I want to do consulting.”

I think it helps that you were the type of candidate they looked at during college, though.

I would contact your CSO. I’m sure there are people who went to YHS that went directly into MBB or are there now. Maybe getting your resume in front of the right people will help.

Edit: misread post

[LBJ's Hair]

Ah, OK good background. So you're familiar with what consultants do. My advice would still be to check out corporate work just so you can tease out whether you hate litigation or hate law. Feel like that'd also make your ultimate switch to consulting more explainable--"I liked the M&A, but the business side more than the legal side," etc etc. If your s/o has contacts, should make it fairly easy to get your resume in front of people who do hiring.

[Carl Carlson]

If you're familiar with the work and still want to do it, go for it. But it's still going to be stressful with potentially long hours, lots of travel, and worry about billable hours. Personally, it's pretty unsatisfying and most people spend a lot of time just in powerpoint and excel.

[Anonymous User]

OP: I feel what you are going through. I would like to support you and say that life is too short not to do what you like doing.

I think it's doable. I would say strategic networking would definitely help a lot. Linkedin search folks who did BigLaw/Clerkship -> Consulting / law school -> consulting and reach out to them. Speak to senior level (manager, principal, etc) at these consulting firms and prepare a very compelling story of why "law to consulting." These people should have more hiring decision than HR or recruiters, who may be initial gatekeepers in hiring.

[Anonymous User]

It's going to be difficult to transition in given now you'll be hired as an experienced hire, which is a lot more unpredictable than the traditional Advanced Degree hires. As an experienced hire, you'll have to do a lot more networking to get your foot in, MUCH more than both undergrad and grad hires, because they tend to be experienced professionals with substantial industry experience.

These 3 firms also tend to treat grad degree holders differently:
- Mckinsey - largest and more favorable towards JD holders. More focused on candidate's pedigree (brand name school/company) on resume.
- BCG - more favorable towards STEM degree holders. meh with JDs, you'll have to prove yourself that you are comfortable with numbers, more than with Mckinsey.
- Bain - you can just throw a hail mary application with them. It's unlikely you'll be considered (they almost never hire JDs), but you never know.

But I know a few people who successfully transitioned in (ex-gf and current gf are both current/ex-consultants who transitioned into MBB post law school). 1-2 years is a tricky spot, but if you can link up with people at M and B to vouch for you through your spouse, hopefully EM/CL level or higher, you may have a shot getting the first round, then it really becomes a fit interview (ADP tend to over focus on case interviews, which often lead to rejection). Best of luck to anyone who's trying to get out of biglaw.

[Yulilo]

Am currently clerking for a federal district court judge in a moderately competitive city. Graduated median-ish from YHS before going into biglaw at V-5 for a year. I did a joint degree so I have another Masters (but not an MBA). Biglaw was bearable primarily because I knew I was leaving to clerk. My clerkship is alright (my judge is a kind and smart boss though the hours are very long and he can be quirky and demanding) but I increasingly find the day-to-day duties of clerking and litigation to be boring, stressful, and lonely. Am now starting to break into a sweat thinking about my post-clerkship plans. Up until now, I had always planned to return to my prior firm and didn't recruit elsewhere during this cycle but the thought of going back to biglaw after not loving the work I've done while clerking just makes me so sad. I have no prior full-time work experience between college and law school/grad school but I have lots of interesting more business-related things in my resume - all in a specific niche industry from outside passion projects. I've always loved working in teams and working on a variety of different things. I think consulting would provide more of that.

Thoughts? Has this been done before? I also wonder if my belated cold feet re. litigation might be more common than people think...

I was never in consulting, but I have friends from college and at my CCN that did/are doing MBB consulting. I'll echo the others in saying that your best opportunity for doing consulting was when you were still in law school. With a sufficient amount of prep,(i.e a lot), McKinsey is very attainable out of HYSCCN. That being said, I still think you could get a first round at McK or BCG,(forget about Bain). Both do post-grad recruiting and given that you went to HYS you'll have a lot of alumni at both places that can push your resume. But you'll probably need to perform flawlessly in the case interviews to get an offer as a post-grad with no applicable work experience. In the mean time, start casing with your SO over Skype and think about ways you can pitch your lit experience favorably.

[LBJ's Hair]

IMO people are focusing way too much on *how* to get the MBB job. OP's s/o was literally an MBB consultant. S/o can give way better advice than anyone on this board can about the interview prep and can intro OP to get him/her screeners.

The bigger question here is whether OP *should* actually try to get for MBB and in doing so, basically abandon law entirely 1.5 years. And I dunno, I kinda think MBB is a great first job out of college to get someone with a liberal arts background into an M7 MBA program. But I'm less convinced it's this like amazing opportunity for a JD making BigLaw money who may just hate litigation/hate the hours at his/her clerkship and V5? OP, as far as I can tell, is a K-JD--if you've never had a real job, this can be a tough transition period. Query whether it's "law" that's a problem, or "working a lot." And it's not like McKinsey is known for being a lifestyle gig.

Maybe OP would love it, IDK. Some people definitely do. If there are people who have done both BigLaw and consulting, would be helpful perspective.

[Anonymous User]

Color me confused as well. I know a lot of people who did MBB consulting, and the turn over rate was basically the same as biglaw and the complaints pretty similar (long hours, meaningless work, partner track/prestige obsession, etc.). Slightly lower salaries, a lot more travel (which gets old fast), probably better exit opportunities (MBA or executive track in house)-- but if you burned out of biglaw I see no reason why you wouldnt burn out of MBB.

". I've always loved working in teams and working on a variety of different things. I think consulting would provide more of that. "

Maybe you just need to change your firm or field of law, so instead of working on one litigation for years, you are in a field where you work on several things at once, or where things change rapidly (finish a deal, move onto another-- as opposed to lit that can last years??) . Or try to go in house for more teamwork, but then you will probably lose the "working on a variety of different things" aspect.

[Anonymous User]

I was in a similar position a few years ago. About 1-2 years out of LS (HYS), stuck in litigation and hating it. I tossed some online applications to 2/3 of MBB, no one on the inside to pass it along. Bain rejected me within hours, but I actually got a real interview at the other firm. I didn't have a screener or anything like that, it was just straight to the in-office case interviews. I ultimately didn't get past the final round, but would've taken it in a heartbeat if I did.

I think people here are way overemphasizing the need for a cogent answer to "why switch?" The question came up in some interviews, but only briefly. It wasn't at all like a lateral biglaw or in-house interview where some interviewers feel the need to cross examine interviewees on that topic for half of the interview. Make it a topic of a paragraph in your cover letter and be done with it.

I did get a chance to talk to the recruiting coordinator for the office for a few minutes, and they basically explained that the office was extremely busy and they needed new post-MBA level talent. I was interviewing along with people who were graduating in a few months time. Without that, I'm not sure I would've gotten the interview at all. One of my friends did just lateral from a post-advanced degree (non-JD) job to MBB, but he knew a partner on the inside who pushed for him to get an interview. I'd guess without either an internal advocate or an office-specific recruiting need, you'll be in a tough spot, but you never know until you apply.

[QContinuum]

I think people here are way overemphasizing the need for a cogent answer to "why switch?" The question came up in some interviews, but only briefly. It wasn't at all like a lateral biglaw or in-house interview where some interviewers feel the need to cross examine interviewees on that topic for half of the interview. Make it a topic of a paragraph in your cover letter and be done with it.

We aren't saying OP needs a great interview answer for MBB et al. for "why switch?"

We are saying OP needs to figure out if s/he actually has a good answer to that question for his/her own sake, because otherwise it may be a mistake to leave legal practice (it wouldn't be easy for OP to jump back to BigLaw after doing a stint in consulting).

[Yulilo]

IMO people are focusing way too much on *how* to get the MBB job. OP's s/o was literally an MBB consultant. S/o can give way better advice than anyone on this board can about the interview prep and can intro OP to get him/her screeners.

The bigger question here is whether OP *should* actually try to get for MBB and in doing so, basically abandon law entirely 1.5 years. And I dunno, I kinda think MBB is a great first job out of college to get someone with a liberal arts background into an M7 MBA program. But I'm less convinced it's this like amazing opportunity for a JD making BigLaw money who may just hate litigation/hate the hours at his/her clerkship and V5? OP, as far as I can tell, is a K-JD--if you've never had a real job, this can be a tough transition period. Query whether it's "law" that's a problem, or "working a lot." And it's not like McKinsey is known for being a lifestyle gig.

Maybe OP would love it, IDK. Some people definitely do. If there are people who have done both BigLaw and consulting, would be helpful perspective.

LBJ makes a great point here. I think many of us are guilty of putting business jobs on a pedestal vis-a-vis big law without considering the downsides and/or why someone wants to transition. Being a junior associate in big law sucks regardless of where you are and what you do, and one year in what amounts to OP's first real job out of school is probably not enough time to make a complete determination. And while the exit opps are more varied out of MBB compared to biglaw, I think the burn out rate is probably higher,(3/5 MBB friends didn't make it past three years because of the intensive travel schedule), and the exits for my friends all seemed to center around corporate strategy FWIW.