ITT restructuring associates mourn practice choice

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ITT restructuring associates mourn practice choice

Postby Anonymous User » Wed Feb 06, 2019 2:41 pm

So many regrets. Praying for brothers and sisters at Weil/Kirkland churning through all dem debtor cases.

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LaLiLuLeLo

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Re: ITT restructuring associates mourn practice choice

Postby LaLiLuLeLo » Wed Feb 06, 2019 2:58 pm

Serious question - what do y’all do?

Where I’m at, the litigation group gets pulled in for filings. We, the corporate group, do the actual deal (whether it’s an asset sale, equity sale, debt for equity deal, etc.) I’ve never been sure what the restructuring people do.

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Re: ITT restructuring associates mourn practice choice

Postby BrainsyK » Wed Feb 06, 2019 4:35 pm

Second serious question: is lender-side BK less brutal?

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Re: ITT restructuring associates mourn practice choice

Postby Anonymous User » Wed Feb 06, 2019 5:09 pm

What are you talking about dude. It is the best practice we have:

-Probably the most yellers out of any practice group. Bankruptcy partners are notorious assholes.
-Fire drills, fire drills, fire drills.
-Court approval and UST review of fees. Yes I have been yelled at over time entries.
-Dealing with horrible people on the creditor side.


I actually think it is better on the lender side. Some groups you are kind of a banking lawyer that sometimes does restructuring work.

I couldn't imagine working both on Sears and PG&E, and what ever other prestigious case Weil has right now. They also have a habit of ramping up the group body wise then stealth when the cases conclude.

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Re: ITT restructuring associates mourn practice choice

Postby Anonymous User » Wed Feb 06, 2019 5:19 pm

BrainsyK wrote:Second serious question: is lender-side BK less brutal?


From a lifestyle perspective yes. It takes us a lot longer to learn the Code and procedure though. I imagine we're more familiar with the debt/finance half of the practice, which may influence exit options to a degree. Not sure what one does after burning out as a pure debtor-side lawyer except maybe investment banking, which seems worse.

Anonymous User wrote:I couldn't imagine working both on Sears and PG&E, and what ever other prestigious case Weil has right now. They also have a habit of ramping up the group body wise then stealth when the cases conclude.


Love the random waves of recruiter emails pitching "CHAMBERS BAND 1 RANKED BFR GROUP". No idea how that group is fielding both those cases at once.

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Re: ITT restructuring associates mourn practice choice

Postby Anonymous User » Wed Feb 06, 2019 5:24 pm

LaLiLuLeLo wrote:Serious question - what do y’all do?

Where I’m at, the litigation group gets pulled in for filings. We, the corporate group, do the actual deal (whether it’s an asset sale, equity sale, debt for equity deal, etc.) I’ve never been sure what the restructuring people do.

I'm sure group dependent but at my firm, our litigators handle any serious trial/adversary proceeding work in addition to all the evidentiary stuff. Corporate group handles the formation of the reorganized company, any asset sales and exchange offers. I'm mostly creditor-side so we'll do the review of the debt docs before the thing files and then review/draft all the bankruptcy motions and documents. Debtor-side feels more M&A-ish in that they're holding the Company's hand throughout the whole process and just passing the ball to the relevant specialty groups. Also need to guide the Company through all the bankruptcy court shit


tl;dr - We are B- litigators and B- corporate lawyers

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Re: ITT restructuring associates mourn practice choice

Postby Anonymous User » Thu Feb 07, 2019 3:24 am

Anonymous User wrote:What are you talking about dude. It is the best practice we have:

-Probably the most yellers out of any practice group. Bankruptcy partners are notorious assholes.
-Fire drills, fire drills, fire drills.
-Court approval and UST review of fees. Yes I have been yelled at over time entries.
-Dealing with horrible people on the creditor side.


I actually think it is better on the lender side. Some groups you are kind of a banking lawyer that sometimes does restructuring work.

I couldn't imagine working both on Sears and PG&E, and what ever other prestigious case Weil has right now. They also have a habit of ramping up the group body wise then stealth when the cases conclude.


Yeah everyone in the group is complaining that the partners need to hire more laterals, not realizing that once we finish these cases heads will roll. There’s definitely a few stragglers you already know are on the chopping block

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Re: ITT restructuring associates mourn practice choice

Postby Anonymous User » Thu Feb 07, 2019 3:28 am

Anonymous User wrote:
LaLiLuLeLo wrote:Serious question - what do y’all do?

Where I’m at, the litigation group gets pulled in for filings. We, the corporate group, do the actual deal (whether it’s an asset sale, equity sale, debt for equity deal, etc.) I’ve never been sure what the restructuring people do.

I'm sure group dependent but at my firm, our litigators handle any serious trial/adversary proceeding work in addition to all the evidentiary stuff. Corporate group handles the formation of the reorganized company, any asset sales and exchange offers. I'm mostly creditor-side so we'll do the review of the debt docs before the thing files and then review/draft all the bankruptcy motions and documents. Debtor-side feels more M&A-ish in that they're holding the Company's hand throughout the whole process and just passing the ball to the relevant specialty groups. Also need to guide the Company through all the bankruptcy court shit


tl;dr - We are B- litigators and B- corporate lawyers


Essentially this from the debtor side too. We keep the company from shitting a lung, make sure every one of our time entries is exquisitely delumped and detailed, and boss the tax, banking, litigation, and m&a teams around

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Re: ITT restructuring associates mourn practice choice

Postby Anonymous User » Fri Feb 08, 2019 12:40 am

I am really curious how you rx lawyers work with rx bankers? I am in law school but will be joining an Rx EB. In M&As bankers take the lead, but I can imagine it will the opposite for restructuring right?

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Re: ITT restructuring associates mourn practice choice

Postby RedPurpleBlue » Fri Feb 08, 2019 12:48 am

What is BK litigation like? As someone interested in corporate, BK has a very real appeal to me. It sounds incredibly interesting, but the idea of traditional litigation was never my cup of tea.

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Re: ITT restructuring associates mourn practice choice

Postby Anonymous User » Fri Feb 08, 2019 11:26 am

Anonymous User wrote:I am really curious how you rx lawyers work with rx bankers? I am in law school but will be joining an Rx EB. In M&As bankers take the lead, but I can imagine it will the opposite for restructuring right?

Kind of depends on the workstream/phase. The bankers generally do a better job of tracking the industry and keeping tabs on certain names so they usually come into the situation with more background. Rx lawyers generally drive the process in the lead up to a filing and playing offense and defense in court. Bankers and corporate/finance lawyers do most of the heavy lifting as company prepares for exit (re-creating the new company, dealing with securities, setting up exit financing, related valuation issues and allocations etc..).

ETA: Coming from largely creditor side, relationship between the two might be different in debtor representations

RedPurpleBlue wrote:What is BK litigation like? As someone interested in corporate, BK has a very real appeal to me. It sounds incredibly interesting, but the idea of traditional litigation was never my cup of tea.

Main difference is that it's much faster and you have another set of procedural rules. Most bk litigation/adversary proceedings fall into well-known buckets so the scope of legal research/discovery isn't as broad. Most biglaw practices rely on their litigators to carry a lot of the water though if shit ever hits the fan.

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Re: ITT restructuring associates mourn practice choice

Postby RedPurpleBlue » Fri Feb 08, 2019 8:12 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
RedPurpleBlue wrote:What is BK litigation like? As someone interested in corporate, BK has a very real appeal to me. It sounds incredibly interesting, but the idea of traditional litigation was never my cup of tea.

Main difference is that it's much faster and you have another set of procedural rules. Most bk litigation/adversary proceedings fall into well-known buckets so the scope of legal research/discovery isn't as broad. Most biglaw practices rely on their litigators to carry a lot of the water though if shit ever hits the fan.


Could you point me to a good BK brief on Lexis/Westlaw/elsewhere that I could look up to see if the writing/issues generally interest me? I'm just trying to figure out if I really dislike litigation or just really was not remotely interested in the topics we had for legal writing briefs (employment issues, criminal law concepts, ICK) or in litigation in general. I don't mind the oral advocacy part at all, so that's good at least.

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Re: ITT restructuring associates mourn practice choice

Postby Anonymous User » Sat Feb 09, 2019 12:22 am

Another Weil BFR associate quit today, they are dropping like flies since bonuses got paid out at end of January

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Re: ITT restructuring associates mourn practice choice

Postby Anonymous User » Sat Feb 09, 2019 11:09 am

I am considering asking for a rotation in my firm's (a V5) Restructuring practice. I didn't get a chance to do any work with that group when I was there as a summer, but I enjoyed my bankruptcy law classes in law school. I just have trouble seeing what the actual, day-to-day work of a junior associate in that group will be.

People here use lots of metaphors like "playing offense and defense in court" and "keep the company from shitting a lung" and "passing the ball to the relevant specialty groups" and "need to guide the Company through all the bankruptcy court shit" -- but unless you already know what these phrases are glosses for, they're not actually helpful. I know it's kind of tedious to write up, but is anyone willing to write up a brief snapshot of your actual tasks, on a given day, as a junior associate in a Restructuring group (e.g., "research relevant provisions from the Bankruptcy Code and discuss with senior associate" or "file paperwork", or etc)?

thanks in advance!

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Re: ITT restructuring associates mourn practice choice

Postby Anonymous User » Sat Feb 09, 2019 12:57 pm

I'm a mid-level at one of the big debtor shops. What a junior does depends on what stage of the case we're in, and the below tasks can sometimes occur in a little as 4 months if we have a deal or up to a year if we file without one. Prior to a filing, this means diligence: reviewing every aspect of a company's operations/debt docs/capital structure/etc... So, for example, a junior might put together a corp/cap structure chart, research case law regarding potential issues later in the case and draft memos, coordinate conference calls among the company, advisors, and creditor groups, and respond to diligence requests from various parties. Basically, anything that needs to get done to prep the company.

As a potential petition date gets closer, juniors take the lead on drafting the various first-day motions: this entails drafting the doc, which includes getting diligence from the company and advisors on the ground necessary to request the relief. They might also take the lead drafting the various financing/sale motions. Depending on the size of the company, this could be a large undertaking or very large undertaking. These drafts then get passed up the chain for comments to more mid-level/senior associates before making their way to the partners. This process occurs in various iterations and doesn't stop until the motion is, quite literally, ready for filing. Juniors will also draft various board update presentations, and then ultimately a presentation authorizing the filing.

On the actual filing date, everyone is scrambling to make sure everything is in order to file the company: first day motions, board resolutions, petitions, financing, sale/bid procedures etc... Depending on the size of the company, this is either a very long night or an all-nighter. After everything is on file, juniors will make sure that the senior associates/partners are prepared for the first day hearing the following day, so drafting summaries of the key points in the first-days, researching a random provision in a case, whatever else needs to be done.

Immediately after the filing, there's a brief lull, but then we're back at it drafting second day motions, negotiating with the UCC if one's been formed, and, depending on whether we filed with a deal, either hammering out the details of the plan or negotiating with all the major constituencies on what a successful plan looks like. Juniors don't have much of a role on the deal side other than as support for what the mid-level/seniors/partners need, so again, this is anything from drafting presentations, researching case law, writing memos, etc... During the case, all sorts of random workstreams pop up that juniors take an active role in: in a retail case, they may be working directly with landlords, responding to various creditor inquiries, interacting with utility providers, and dealing with random contract issues (unless they're central to the case). We also work with the company to make sure they understand what they can/can't do or pay while in chapter 11. We'll also file other operational motions based on what the case requires (incentive plans, operational motions--365(d)(4), exclusivity--asset sales).

Once a case is filed, there are two major milestones: filing/obtaining approval of the disclosure statement, and confirmation. The lead up to these two events can be just as hectic as a filing, instead this time various stakeholders may not be on board, so we're dealing with live objections. Juniors will research the case law (e.g., does the DS satisfy 1125, is the plan patently unconfirmable, is there a disparate treatment issue) that may/not make it into the replys/briefs that we file. The major creditor constituencies (who are likely going to be the new owners) have significant consent rights over the DS and the plan, so part of a junior's task may be to manage the tsunami of comments that come in from all angles, then passing them up to mids/seniors who decide what gets in and what gets cut. Depending on what comment gets cut, this could spark major contention among the parties.

Commonly, things happen in bankruptcy that never make it into reported opinions, so we rely heavily on precedent (a common task for a junior may be to research the last X cases in [District] on what some random provisions said on a particular topic and put the results into a table/memo/other easily digestible format).

After confirmation, everyone's attentions turns to emergence, and the various specialty groups (corp/debt fin/tax) take a more active role. BK's role is to manage the process and make sure things are progressing toward emergence. A junior here will likely take the lead on drafting an emergence checklist, which outlines all the various tasks that need to be done in order to emerge. This, again, may get passed around to the various specialty groups and creditor constituencies for comments, but this isn't as painful. One other workstream a junior may take on is claims objections: basically, objecting to filed claims for various reasons (filed two claims, filed against the wrong debtor, no supporting docs), and this can last well past confirmation/emergence.

We'll also support the various specialty groups (mostly lit, especially if there's an adversary proceeding).

Oh, and time entry, the worst part. Every time a corp associate enters "Attention to deal," a junior is tasked with revising, otherwise, the U.S. Trustee/court/fee examiner will flag it and push for a write off.

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Re: ITT restructuring associates mourn practice choice

Postby jarofsoup » Sat Feb 09, 2019 1:21 pm

Anonymous User wrote:Another Weil BFR associate quit today, they are dropping like flies since bonuses got paid out at end of January


Where did they land? PM me.

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Re: ITT restructuring associates mourn practice choice

Postby LaLiLuLeLo » Sat Feb 09, 2019 1:31 pm

TIL the BK associates probably want to murder me for my time entries.

But I also hate billing in stupid .10 increments so there.

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Re: ITT restructuring associates mourn practice choice

Postby Anonymous User » Sat Feb 09, 2019 3:34 pm

jarofsoup wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:Another Weil BFR associate quit today, they are dropping like flies since bonuses got paid out at end of January


Where did they land? PM me.


One went to do consulting at BCG, one went to another firm.

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Re: ITT restructuring associates mourn practice choice

Postby Anonymous User » Sat Feb 09, 2019 5:45 pm

Anonymous User wrote:I'm a mid-level at one of the big debtor shops. What a junior does depends on what stage of the case we're in, and the below tasks can sometimes occur in a little as 4 months if we have a deal or up to a year if we file without one. Prior to a filing, this means diligence: reviewing every aspect of a company's operations/debt docs/capital structure/etc... So, for example, a junior might put together a corp/cap structure chart, research case law regarding potential issues later in the case and draft memos, coordinate conference calls among the company, advisors, and creditor groups, and respond to diligence requests from various parties. Basically, anything that needs to get done to prep the company.

As a potential petition date gets closer, juniors take the lead on drafting the various first-day motions: this entails drafting the doc, which includes getting diligence from the company and advisors on the ground necessary to request the relief. They might also take the lead drafting the various financing/sale motions. Depending on the size of the company, this could be a large undertaking or very large undertaking. These drafts then get passed up the chain for comments to more mid-level/senior associates before making their way to the partners. This process occurs in various iterations and doesn't stop until the motion is, quite literally, ready for filing. Juniors will also draft various board update presentations, and then ultimately a presentation authorizing the filing.

On the actual filing date, everyone is scrambling to make sure everything is in order to file the company: first day motions, board resolutions, petitions, financing, sale/bid procedures etc... Depending on the size of the company, this is either a very long night or an all-nighter. After everything is on file, juniors will make sure that the senior associates/partners are prepared for the first day hearing the following day, so drafting summaries of the key points in the first-days, researching a random provision in a case, whatever else needs to be done.

Immediately after the filing, there's a brief lull, but then we're back at it drafting second day motions, negotiating with the UCC if one's been formed, and, depending on whether we filed with a deal, either hammering out the details of the plan or negotiating with all the major constituencies on what a successful plan looks like. Juniors don't have much of a role on the deal side other than as support for what the mid-level/seniors/partners need, so again, this is anything from drafting presentations, researching case law, writing memos, etc... During the case, all sorts of random workstreams pop up that juniors take an active role in: in a retail case, they may be working directly with landlords, responding to various creditor inquiries, interacting with utility providers, and dealing with random contract issues (unless they're central to the case). We also work with the company to make sure they understand what they can/can't do or pay while in chapter 11. We'll also file other operational motions based on what the case requires (incentive plans, operational motions--365(d)(4), exclusivity--asset sales).

Once a case is filed, there are two major milestones: filing/obtaining approval of the disclosure statement, and confirmation. The lead up to these two events can be just as hectic as a filing, instead this time various stakeholders may not be on board, so we're dealing with live objections. Juniors will research the case law (e.g., does the DS satisfy 1125, is the plan patently unconfirmable, is there a disparate treatment issue) that may/not make it into the replys/briefs that we file. The major creditor constituencies (who are likely going to be the new owners) have significant consent rights over the DS and the plan, so part of a junior's task may be to manage the tsunami of comments that come in from all angles, then passing them up to mids/seniors who decide what gets in and what gets cut. Depending on what comment gets cut, this could spark major contention among the parties.

Commonly, things happen in bankruptcy that never make it into reported opinions, so we rely heavily on precedent (a common task for a junior may be to research the last X cases in [District] on what some random provisions said on a particular topic and put the results into a table/memo/other easily digestible format).

After confirmation, everyone's attentions turns to emergence, and the various specialty groups (corp/debt fin/tax) take a more active role. BK's role is to manage the process and make sure things are progressing toward emergence. A junior here will likely take the lead on drafting an emergence checklist, which outlines all the various tasks that need to be done in order to emerge. This, again, may get passed around to the various specialty groups and creditor constituencies for comments, but this isn't as painful. One other workstream a junior may take on is claims objections: basically, objecting to filed claims for various reasons (filed two claims, filed against the wrong debtor, no supporting docs), and this can last well past confirmation/emergence.

We'll also support the various specialty groups (mostly lit, especially if there's an adversary proceeding).

Oh, and time entry, the worst part. Every time a corp associate enters "Attention to deal," a junior is tasked with revising, otherwise, the U.S. Trustee/court/fee examiner will flag it and push for a write off.


Thank you! This is genuinely very helpful.

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Re: ITT restructuring associates mourn practice choice

Postby Anonymous User » Sat Feb 09, 2019 10:26 pm

Anonymous User wrote:I'm a mid-level at one of the big debtor shops. What a junior does depends on what stage of the case we're in, and the below tasks can sometimes occur in a little as 4 months if we have a deal or up to a year if we file without one. Prior to a filing, this means diligence: reviewing every aspect of a company's operations/debt docs/capital structure/etc... So, for example, a junior might put together a corp/cap structure chart, research case law regarding potential issues later in the case and draft memos, coordinate conference calls among the company, advisors, and creditor groups, and respond to diligence requests from various parties. Basically, anything that needs to get done to prep the company.

As a potential petition date gets closer, juniors take the lead on drafting the various first-day motions: this entails drafting the doc, which includes getting diligence from the company and advisors on the ground necessary to request the relief. They might also take the lead drafting the various financing/sale motions. Depending on the size of the company, this could be a large undertaking or very large undertaking. These drafts then get passed up the chain for comments to more mid-level/senior associates before making their way to the partners. This process occurs in various iterations and doesn't stop until the motion is, quite literally, ready for filing. Juniors will also draft various board update presentations, and then ultimately a presentation authorizing the filing.

On the actual filing date, everyone is scrambling to make sure everything is in order to file the company: first day motions, board resolutions, petitions, financing, sale/bid procedures etc... Depending on the size of the company, this is either a very long night or an all-nighter. After everything is on file, juniors will make sure that the senior associates/partners are prepared for the first day hearing the following day, so drafting summaries of the key points in the first-days, researching a random provision in a case, whatever else needs to be done.

Immediately after the filing, there's a brief lull, but then we're back at it drafting second day motions, negotiating with the UCC if one's been formed, and, depending on whether we filed with a deal, either hammering out the details of the plan or negotiating with all the major constituencies on what a successful plan looks like. Juniors don't have much of a role on the deal side other than as support for what the mid-level/seniors/partners need, so again, this is anything from drafting presentations, researching case law, writing memos, etc... During the case, all sorts of random workstreams pop up that juniors take an active role in: in a retail case, they may be working directly with landlords, responding to various creditor inquiries, interacting with utility providers, and dealing with random contract issues (unless they're central to the case). We also work with the company to make sure they understand what they can/can't do or pay while in chapter 11. We'll also file other operational motions based on what the case requires (incentive plans, operational motions--365(d)(4), exclusivity--asset sales).

Once a case is filed, there are two major milestones: filing/obtaining approval of the disclosure statement, and confirmation. The lead up to these two events can be just as hectic as a filing, instead this time various stakeholders may not be on board, so we're dealing with live objections. Juniors will research the case law (e.g., does the DS satisfy 1125, is the plan patently unconfirmable, is there a disparate treatment issue) that may/not make it into the replys/briefs that we file. The major creditor constituencies (who are likely going to be the new owners) have significant consent rights over the DS and the plan, so part of a junior's task may be to manage the tsunami of comments that come in from all angles, then passing them up to mids/seniors who decide what gets in and what gets cut. Depending on what comment gets cut, this could spark major contention among the parties.

Commonly, things happen in bankruptcy that never make it into reported opinions, so we rely heavily on precedent (a common task for a junior may be to research the last X cases in [District] on what some random provisions said on a particular topic and put the results into a table/memo/other easily digestible format).

After confirmation, everyone's attentions turns to emergence, and the various specialty groups (corp/debt fin/tax) take a more active role. BK's role is to manage the process and make sure things are progressing toward emergence. A junior here will likely take the lead on drafting an emergence checklist, which outlines all the various tasks that need to be done in order to emerge. This, again, may get passed around to the various specialty groups and creditor constituencies for comments, but this isn't as painful. One other workstream a junior may take on is claims objections: basically, objecting to filed claims for various reasons (filed two claims, filed against the wrong debtor, no supporting docs), and this can last well past confirmation/emergence.

We'll also support the various specialty groups (mostly lit, especially if there's an adversary proceeding).

Oh, and time entry, the worst part. Every time a corp associate enters "Attention to deal," a junior is tasked with revising, otherwise, the U.S. Trustee/court/fee examiner will flag it and push for a write off.


Truly awesome post, thank you!!!

On another note, where do you see associates from your big debtor shop go?

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Re: ITT restructuring associates mourn practice choice

Postby Anonymous User » Sun Feb 10, 2019 12:36 am

Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:I'm a mid-level at one of the big debtor shops. What a junior does depends on what stage of the case we're in, and the below tasks can sometimes occur in a little as 4 months if we have a deal or up to a year if we file without one. Prior to a filing, this means diligence: reviewing every aspect of a company's operations/debt docs/capital structure/etc... So, for example, a junior might put together a corp/cap structure chart, research case law regarding potential issues later in the case and draft memos, coordinate conference calls among the company, advisors, and creditor groups, and respond to diligence requests from various parties. Basically, anything that needs to get done to prep the company.

As a potential petition date gets closer, juniors take the lead on drafting the various first-day motions: this entails drafting the doc, which includes getting diligence from the company and advisors on the ground necessary to request the relief. They might also take the lead drafting the various financing/sale motions. Depending on the size of the company, this could be a large undertaking or very large undertaking. These drafts then get passed up the chain for comments to more mid-level/senior associates before making their way to the partners. This process occurs in various iterations and doesn't stop until the motion is, quite literally, ready for filing. Juniors will also draft various board update presentations, and then ultimately a presentation authorizing the filing.

On the actual filing date, everyone is scrambling to make sure everything is in order to file the company: first day motions, board resolutions, petitions, financing, sale/bid procedures etc... Depending on the size of the company, this is either a very long night or an all-nighter. After everything is on file, juniors will make sure that the senior associates/partners are prepared for the first day hearing the following day, so drafting summaries of the key points in the first-days, researching a random provision in a case, whatever else needs to be done.

Immediately after the filing, there's a brief lull, but then we're back at it drafting second day motions, negotiating with the UCC if one's been formed, and, depending on whether we filed with a deal, either hammering out the details of the plan or negotiating with all the major constituencies on what a successful plan looks like. Juniors don't have much of a role on the deal side other than as support for what the mid-level/seniors/partners need, so again, this is anything from drafting presentations, researching case law, writing memos, etc... During the case, all sorts of random workstreams pop up that juniors take an active role in: in a retail case, they may be working directly with landlords, responding to various creditor inquiries, interacting with utility providers, and dealing with random contract issues (unless they're central to the case). We also work with the company to make sure they understand what they can/can't do or pay while in chapter 11. We'll also file other operational motions based on what the case requires (incentive plans, operational motions--365(d)(4), exclusivity--asset sales).

Once a case is filed, there are two major milestones: filing/obtaining approval of the disclosure statement, and confirmation. The lead up to these two events can be just as hectic as a filing, instead this time various stakeholders may not be on board, so we're dealing with live objections. Juniors will research the case law (e.g., does the DS satisfy 1125, is the plan patently unconfirmable, is there a disparate treatment issue) that may/not make it into the replys/briefs that we file. The major creditor constituencies (who are likely going to be the new owners) have significant consent rights over the DS and the plan, so part of a junior's task may be to manage the tsunami of comments that come in from all angles, then passing them up to mids/seniors who decide what gets in and what gets cut. Depending on what comment gets cut, this could spark major contention among the parties.

Commonly, things happen in bankruptcy that never make it into reported opinions, so we rely heavily on precedent (a common task for a junior may be to research the last X cases in [District] on what some random provisions said on a particular topic and put the results into a table/memo/other easily digestible format).

After confirmation, everyone's attentions turns to emergence, and the various specialty groups (corp/debt fin/tax) take a more active role. BK's role is to manage the process and make sure things are progressing toward emergence. A junior here will likely take the lead on drafting an emergence checklist, which outlines all the various tasks that need to be done in order to emerge. This, again, may get passed around to the various specialty groups and creditor constituencies for comments, but this isn't as painful. One other workstream a junior may take on is claims objections: basically, objecting to filed claims for various reasons (filed two claims, filed against the wrong debtor, no supporting docs), and this can last well past confirmation/emergence.

We'll also support the various specialty groups (mostly lit, especially if there's an adversary proceeding).

Oh, and time entry, the worst part. Every time a corp associate enters "Attention to deal," a junior is tasked with revising, otherwise, the U.S. Trustee/court/fee examiner will flag it and push for a write off.


Truly awesome post, thank you!!!

On another note, where do you see associates from your big debtor shop go?


Not this poster, but typically to other large firms, sometimes to funds.

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Re: ITT restructuring associates mourn practice choice

Postby Anonymous User » Mon Feb 11, 2019 11:46 am

Anonymous User wrote:I am considering asking for a rotation in my firm's (a V5) Restructuring practice. I didn't get a chance to do any work with that group when I was there as a summer, but I enjoyed my bankruptcy law classes in law school. I just have trouble seeing what the actual, day-to-day work of a junior associate in that group will be.

People here use lots of metaphors like "playing offense and defense in court" and "keep the company from shitting a lung" and "passing the ball to the relevant specialty groups" and "need to guide the Company through all the bankruptcy court shit" -- but unless you already know what these phrases are glosses for, they're not actually helpful. I know it's kind of tedious to write up, but is anyone willing to write up a brief snapshot of your actual tasks, on a given day, as a junior associate in a Restructuring group (e.g., "research relevant provisions from the Bankruptcy Code and discuss with senior associate" or "file paperwork", or etc)?

thanks in advance!

My best attempt to break down how you'll spend a bankruptcy rotation at DPW, which is where I'm assuming you're at based on the description unless Latham is really V5 now:

30% turning comments and summarizing/circulating docket pleadings.
20% various legal research assignments
20% powerpoint/precedent review for business development decks based on whatever industry team they staff you on
10% collateral reviews that the credit group should be doing for you but won't because they've been drowning since forever
10% helping your midlevel put together a covenant review summary for a potential group/hedge fund matter
10% reviewing bills and putting together invoices
100% reason to remember the name

ETA: Roughly 10-40% being loaned out to the credit group if things are slow

Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:I'm a mid-level at one of the big debtor shops. What a junior does depends on what stage of the case we're in, and the below tasks can sometimes occur in a little as 4 months if we have a deal or up to a year if we file without one. Prior to a filing, this means diligence: reviewing every aspect of a company's operations/debt docs/capital structure/etc... So, for example, a junior might put together a corp/cap structure chart, research case law regarding potential issues later in the case and draft memos, coordinate conference calls among the company, advisors, and creditor groups, and respond to diligence requests from various parties. Basically, anything that needs to get done to prep the company.

As a potential petition date gets closer, juniors take the lead on drafting the various first-day motions: this entails drafting the doc, which includes getting diligence from the company and advisors on the ground necessary to request the relief. They might also take the lead drafting the various financing/sale motions. Depending on the size of the company, this could be a large undertaking or very large undertaking. These drafts then get passed up the chain for comments to more mid-level/senior associates before making their way to the partners. This process occurs in various iterations and doesn't stop until the motion is, quite literally, ready for filing. Juniors will also draft various board update presentations, and then ultimately a presentation authorizing the filing.

On the actual filing date, everyone is scrambling to make sure everything is in order to file the company: first day motions, board resolutions, petitions, financing, sale/bid procedures etc... Depending on the size of the company, this is either a very long night or an all-nighter. After everything is on file, juniors will make sure that the senior associates/partners are prepared for the first day hearing the following day, so drafting summaries of the key points in the first-days, researching a random provision in a case, whatever else needs to be done.

Immediately after the filing, there's a brief lull, but then we're back at it drafting second day motions, negotiating with the UCC if one's been formed, and, depending on whether we filed with a deal, either hammering out the details of the plan or negotiating with all the major constituencies on what a successful plan looks like. Juniors don't have much of a role on the deal side other than as support for what the mid-level/seniors/partners need, so again, this is anything from drafting presentations, researching case law, writing memos, etc... During the case, all sorts of random workstreams pop up that juniors take an active role in: in a retail case, they may be working directly with landlords, responding to various creditor inquiries, interacting with utility providers, and dealing with random contract issues (unless they're central to the case). We also work with the company to make sure they understand what they can/can't do or pay while in chapter 11. We'll also file other operational motions based on what the case requires (incentive plans, operational motions--365(d)(4), exclusivity--asset sales).

Once a case is filed, there are two major milestones: filing/obtaining approval of the disclosure statement, and confirmation. The lead up to these two events can be just as hectic as a filing, instead this time various stakeholders may not be on board, so we're dealing with live objections. Juniors will research the case law (e.g., does the DS satisfy 1125, is the plan patently unconfirmable, is there a disparate treatment issue) that may/not make it into the replys/briefs that we file. The major creditor constituencies (who are likely going to be the new owners) have significant consent rights over the DS and the plan, so part of a junior's task may be to manage the tsunami of comments that come in from all angles, then passing them up to mids/seniors who decide what gets in and what gets cut. Depending on what comment gets cut, this could spark major contention among the parties.

Commonly, things happen in bankruptcy that never make it into reported opinions, so we rely heavily on precedent (a common task for a junior may be to research the last X cases in [District] on what some random provisions said on a particular topic and put the results into a table/memo/other easily digestible format).

After confirmation, everyone's attentions turns to emergence, and the various specialty groups (corp/debt fin/tax) take a more active role. BK's role is to manage the process and make sure things are progressing toward emergence. A junior here will likely take the lead on drafting an emergence checklist, which outlines all the various tasks that need to be done in order to emerge. This, again, may get passed around to the various specialty groups and creditor constituencies for comments, but this isn't as painful. One other workstream a junior may take on is claims objections: basically, objecting to filed claims for various reasons (filed two claims, filed against the wrong debtor, no supporting docs), and this can last well past confirmation/emergence.

We'll also support the various specialty groups (mostly lit, especially if there's an adversary proceeding).

Oh, and time entry, the worst part. Every time a corp associate enters "Attention to deal," a junior is tasked with revising, otherwise, the U.S. Trustee/court/fee examiner will flag it and push for a write off.


Truly awesome post, thank you!!!

On another note, where do you see associates from your big debtor shop go?

will try to summarize from the creditor side

Phase 1: Usually a financial advisor/investment bank will alert the partner about a distressed name they're hearing about. Even better if an existing client is already in the credit. Associates spend time getting smart on what the debt docs permit the Company to do (e.g., move collateral/value out of the credit pool, layer in a new loan or series of notes, necessary consent thresholds for creditors to do various things). Partners make calls to other clients/creditors who may be in the credit to cobble together a group before a competitor does. Usually there are a 1-3 creditors who hold bigger positions that are leading the charge and they'll add on a few more funds (want at least 33% so you have a blocking position, 51% or 66% is best depending on what the consent threshold in the docs are). Clients want to add as few people as possible (i.e., add fewer funds holding bigger positions) so the group can move nimbly and minimize having to share the fees/economics they extract from the restructuring.

Phase 2: Once you have a group, approach Company's counsel/FA (usually Kirkland/Weil) and negotiate advisor and principal NDA's. These hedge funds always wait until the last minute to receive confi info since it restricts their ability to trade the debt. Usually the advisors will go under the tent first and advise clients as best they can without sharing any restricting info. Eventually clients will have to come under the tent to finalize the economic terms once advisors have agreed to the structure.

Phase 3: Lawyers/bankers go back and forth to negotiate a structure that makes sense depending on where your group sits in the capital structure. The most senior lenders generally just agree to amend/extend their facility and use the restructuring to clean up covenants. The middle-ish secured lenders (or more senior unsecured lenders) have a stronger claim to being the fulcrum creditors (i.e., where the value of the Company breaks such that they only recover a portion of what they're owed). As fulcrum creditors they'll agree to some combination of take-back debt and equity in the reorganized Company (take-back debt means they the Reorganized Company owes money even though the creditors haven't lent new money, it's a debt obligation on account of pre-existing debt). More junior unsecured creditors usually out of the money. Sponsors are usually given an equity tip and releases (i.e., no one can sue them for anything they did while owning the Company) in exchange for cooperating with the restructuring.

Phase 4: Once the "in" creditor group(s) and Company agree on the structure, they put together a restructuring support agreement that outlines the basic parameters of the deal and binds the parties to cooperating towards the chapter 11 plan. Usually DIP facilities (loan facility that funds the Company through the bankruptcy) is being negotiated in parallel. DIP is usually provided by creditors already in the capital structure but sometimes outside lenders can come in to provide. Company is also preparing for filing so you have to review the first day pleadings that the Debtor firm is sending over.

Phase 5: Company files. Everyone who was left out of the deal (or about to lose money, like landlords) files objections or tries to wiggle their way in. Unsecured creditors (or committee if one is appointed) who are out of the money typically file objections claiming that the deal was unfairly negotiated, sponsors did all these bad things so they should be forced to surrender money back to the estate, blah blah. Debtor and creditor group hold hands to respond and push back against these. Usually things are settled out of court. Companies usually want to exit as quickly as possible so the bankruptcy teams will be negotiating the disclosure statement, plan and confirmation order while all this is going on. In the background, Company is also preparing for exit. So corporate teams are stitching together the relevant governance, securities, shareholder documents (remember your clients now own the company going forward) and finance teams are negotiating the exit facilities

I'm glossing over a lot of stuff but that's generally the idea. Keep in mind that while all this is going on, other creditor groups are forming to try and derail your deal or offer better terms. Having a solid group that clears any voting/consent thresholds usually prevents that.

In my experience, each creditor deal involves way less paper than a debtor representation. So usually staffed on more of these at once (couldn't imagine doing more than 2 debtor cases at same time).

ETA: To clarify my point on offense/defense, remember that these are inherently situations where there's not enough money to go around. Everyone has to justify the value they're receiving (or should be receiving) so the bankruptcy court will sign off. Anyone whose wallets are about to get lighter (e.g., tort claimants, landlords, contract counterparties, vendors, unsecured creditors, old equity holders) are forced to attack the deal and argue that they're entitled to XYZ because of ABC. So the Company/management and "in" group of creditors and old equity sponsors need to fend off those attacks in court. The bankruptcy teams will generally draft/argue those pleadings and issues in bankruptcy court. The litigators are brought in if the dispute(s) get to the point where the camps move to build the record through testimony, depos, and discovery.

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Re: ITT restructuring associates mourn practice choice

Postby Anonymous User » Mon Feb 11, 2019 1:44 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
jarofsoup wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:Another Weil BFR associate quit today, they are dropping like flies since bonuses got paid out at end of January


Where did they land? PM me.


One went to do consulting at BCG, one went to another firm.


Really surprised by the BCG one. How could he/she manage to pull it off? I heard case interview is pretty difficult and it takes a lot time to prepare.

Anonymous User
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Joined: Tue Aug 11, 2009 9:32 am

Re: ITT restructuring associates mourn practice choice

Postby Anonymous User » Mon Feb 11, 2019 5:50 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:I'm a mid-level at one of the big debtor shops. What a junior does depends on what stage of the case we're in, and the below tasks can sometimes occur in a little as 4 months if we have a deal or up to a year if we file without one. Prior to a filing, this means diligence: reviewing every aspect of a company's operations/debt docs/capital structure/etc... So, for example, a junior might put together a corp/cap structure chart, research case law regarding potential issues later in the case and draft memos, coordinate conference calls among the company, advisors, and creditor groups, and respond to diligence requests from various parties. Basically, anything that needs to get done to prep the company.

As a potential petition date gets closer, juniors take the lead on drafting the various first-day motions: this entails drafting the doc, which includes getting diligence from the company and advisors on the ground necessary to request the relief. They might also take the lead drafting the various financing/sale motions. Depending on the size of the company, this could be a large undertaking or very large undertaking. These drafts then get passed up the chain for comments to more mid-level/senior associates before making their way to the partners. This process occurs in various iterations and doesn't stop until the motion is, quite literally, ready for filing. Juniors will also draft various board update presentations, and then ultimately a presentation authorizing the filing.

On the actual filing date, everyone is scrambling to make sure everything is in order to file the company: first day motions, board resolutions, petitions, financing, sale/bid procedures etc... Depending on the size of the company, this is either a very long night or an all-nighter. After everything is on file, juniors will make sure that the senior associates/partners are prepared for the first day hearing the following day, so drafting summaries of the key points in the first-days, researching a random provision in a case, whatever else needs to be done.

Immediately after the filing, there's a brief lull, but then we're back at it drafting second day motions, negotiating with the UCC if one's been formed, and, depending on whether we filed with a deal, either hammering out the details of the plan or negotiating with all the major constituencies on what a successful plan looks like. Juniors don't have much of a role on the deal side other than as support for what the mid-level/seniors/partners need, so again, this is anything from drafting presentations, researching case law, writing memos, etc... During the case, all sorts of random workstreams pop up that juniors take an active role in: in a retail case, they may be working directly with landlords, responding to various creditor inquiries, interacting with utility providers, and dealing with random contract issues (unless they're central to the case). We also work with the company to make sure they understand what they can/can't do or pay while in chapter 11. We'll also file other operational motions based on what the case requires (incentive plans, operational motions--365(d)(4), exclusivity--asset sales).

Once a case is filed, there are two major milestones: filing/obtaining approval of the disclosure statement, and confirmation. The lead up to these two events can be just as hectic as a filing, instead this time various stakeholders may not be on board, so we're dealing with live objections. Juniors will research the case law (e.g., does the DS satisfy 1125, is the plan patently unconfirmable, is there a disparate treatment issue) that may/not make it into the replys/briefs that we file. The major creditor constituencies (who are likely going to be the new owners) have significant consent rights over the DS and the plan, so part of a junior's task may be to manage the tsunami of comments that come in from all angles, then passing them up to mids/seniors who decide what gets in and what gets cut. Depending on what comment gets cut, this could spark major contention among the parties.

Commonly, things happen in bankruptcy that never make it into reported opinions, so we rely heavily on precedent (a common task for a junior may be to research the last X cases in [District] on what some random provisions said on a particular topic and put the results into a table/memo/other easily digestible format).

After confirmation, everyone's attentions turns to emergence, and the various specialty groups (corp/debt fin/tax) take a more active role. BK's role is to manage the process and make sure things are progressing toward emergence. A junior here will likely take the lead on drafting an emergence checklist, which outlines all the various tasks that need to be done in order to emerge. This, again, may get passed around to the various specialty groups and creditor constituencies for comments, but this isn't as painful. One other workstream a junior may take on is claims objections: basically, objecting to filed claims for various reasons (filed two claims, filed against the wrong debtor, no supporting docs), and this can last well past confirmation/emergence.

We'll also support the various specialty groups (mostly lit, especially if there's an adversary proceeding).

Oh, and time entry, the worst part. Every time a corp associate enters "Attention to deal," a junior is tasked with revising, otherwise, the U.S. Trustee/court/fee examiner will flag it and push for a write off.


Truly awesome post, thank you!!!

On another note, where do you see associates from your big debtor shop go?


Not this poster, but typically to other large firms, sometimes to funds.

Even for those coming from debtor firms? I'm concerned that Weil and Kirkland's control of debtor BK work will limit where those associates can go. Will a lender side firm hired a person who has mostly/exclusively done debtor work?

Anonymous User
Posts: 329317
Joined: Tue Aug 11, 2009 9:32 am

Re: ITT restructuring associates mourn practice choice

Postby Anonymous User » Mon Feb 11, 2019 6:01 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:Not this poster, but typically to other large firms, sometimes to funds.

Even for those coming from debtor firms? I'm concerned that Weil and Kirkland's control of debtor BK work will limit where those associates can go. Will a lender side firm hired a person who has mostly/exclusively done debtor work?

Creditor-side midlevel. Kind of depends on seniority and experience. Debtor-side work is more profitable so even most creditor-leaning firms like having a handful of debtor representations going at any time. But if you were one of those associates that failed to graduate to managing workstreams (e.g., associate #5 assigned to reviewing bill, only ever worked on assorted first days, etc..) then I imagine it's harder to pitch yourself to a firm that doesn't staff cases the same way. Not meant as a knock against either Weil/Kirkland. Having so many debtor matters going on at once forces the group to be very machine-like. Lends itself to associates sitting in discrete assignment silos.



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