Am I being pushed out? Forum

[Anonymous User]

Hi all,

Second year corporate associate here. I started at a new firm about five months back, and promptly managed to screw up badly on my first project, although not in a way that would have prevented the deal from closing. At first, it didn't seem to matter - I was still getting a lot of work, my hours were on a definite upward trend, and I also managed to get on a meaty project where a single other partner and myself closed a deal so difficult that every other lawyer in the deal expressed total disbelief about getting the deal actually done by the time it ended, and I was explicitly told I'd done a good job.

Since that deal and the other deal I was on closed (around mid-November), however, I have not managed to get any new lasting work, despite asking mid-level associates and partners. I know there's at least one other associate who's slow, and even midlevels looking out for more hours. I've also been trying to fill up my time by working pro bono and non-billable other items, so that I'm not just sitting around and doing nothing. I also know that there have been a lot of new joiners in our groups recently and there's been an effort to push work to them and help get them started on hours.

I have practically no billables thus far in December, though, and despite knocking on doors and letting people know I'm available to help, even small work has stopped coming my way, though there was definitely an effort at first to get me involved in things (which people seemed to have been thankful for and which I did not screw up on). I also know that it's that time of year where people very often get asked to leave. I'm trying to do the basics of starting to look out for opportunities and dust off my resume, which I believe is strong, but I just want to ask - does this look like the usual freeze-out associates get, and should I be more alarmed than I already am? It sure feels like it, but it's hard for me to know either way...

Thanks for hearing me out.

[Anonymous User]

No, you shouldn't be alarmed but keep your resume polished. Start worrying if February comes and you're still without hours.

[SFSpartan]

It sounds like other people are slow too, so I wouldn't worry that you, specifically, are being pushed out. The fact that multiple people are slow may be cause for concern though. I'd start looking if this continues through Q1 2019

[2013]

Agree with the above. I don’t think you’re getting pushed out, but I think you should be concerned about the amount of work v. Number of associates your team has.

[Anonymous User]

OP here - sorry for resurrecting this. February has indeed come, and I'm still without hours, despite knocking on practically everyone's door and all but begging for work. I know some other people are still slow, but I don't think any are as slow as I am, and at this point I'm genuinely terrified.

I think I'm in a precarious position here - I'm only a third year at this point, and I've only been at my current firm for half a year. How exactly should I address this in interviews, should I be lucky enough to get any?

[Npret]

Talk to the partner on the deal you did a good job on and see what’s up. If you badly screwed up your first deal at the firm, you are going to be at the bottom of people who get work. It’s very difficult to overcome if the firm isn’t busy.

You need some honest advice about your future at the firm.

[Bllljd115]

Is work still slow for the other juniors and midlevels too? It seems that your group/office is really slow generally. I'd be looking to test the market a bit. This is not uncommon and if work picks up in a month or two they'll need you again, but if it doesn't you may pushed out for economic reasons. Any reason you can think of why your group might be slow right now?

[Anonymous User]

OP here - sorry for resurrecting this. February has indeed come, and I'm still without hours, despite knocking on practically everyone's door and all but begging for work. I know some other people are still slow, but I don't think any are as slow as I am, and at this point I'm genuinely terrified.

I think I'm in a precarious position here - I'm only a third year at this point, and I've only been at my current firm for half a year. How exactly should I address this in interviews, should I be lucky enough to get any?

I’m in a very similar position. Fairly new to my firm and I’ve averaged 50 hours the last few months. I didn’t make any grave errors, but a partner did point out that I should pay better attention to detail once. I’ve received work from them after though.

I think my worry is a bit different because the other attorneys in my group are busier. I’ve decided to apply elsewhere. I think I’m at a firm where everyone above me is just barely hitting hours and I get whatever is leftover. People on my team have suggested looking for work in related practice groups to pick up hours. I don’t have any same-class associates in my group. I’m a third year and the next associate is a super senior associate (class of 08).

I’d think they’d reluctantly have to give me work if there was any. Anyway, you’re not alone in the “no work” pile. It is extremely stressful.

[Anonymous User]

I’ve been practicing for about 10 years - half at a firm and half in-house. First, everyone take a deep breath. Being a junior associate is stressful. Hours are erradixt erratic, your skills are still soft/imperfect and there’s a steep learning curve. You will make mistakes. We all do, even as you get more senior (you just tend to catch them earlier or be more aware). This isn’t to discourage you from exploring other opportunities. It never hurts to know the market but I encourage you to balance that view with the possibility that things are just slow. Deals are cyclical. My old firm valued me a great deal and I still went through slow periods like you’ve described for even longer periods of time. I similarly was panicked, so your reaction is understandable and I empathize. I write all of this to let you know that this is common and your gut feeling that you may be on the chopping block isn’t necessarily an accurate view. Firm life is stressful and high pressure, so it stokes anxiety which can bleed into life concerns (like losing your job). Talk to associates or partners you trust about your path, but don’t do it in a panicked, the sky is falling type of way. Tell them you want to continue to improve and learn (focus on positive, not the fact that you screwed up before) and that you’ve been light in work lately. If there’s a work coordinator that doles out work, talk to them. In particular, I’d recommend talking to a mid or senior associate that’s recently been through it. I wouldn’t be completely candid with them but you can express that you’re worried that you’re not getting enough work to support your development during a critical time in your career. With that said, I would not recommend having these conversations if you’ve only been slow for a few months unless everyone else is totally flat out busy. Partners spread work around, they don’t staff people on deals mid-deal, etc., so it’s not uncommon to be slow. Enjoy the free time as best you can! You will miss it when you’re crushed again. I was constantly worried about being fired for the first 3 years of practicing...it was stupid because it only stressed me out and wasted energy. I failed to realize how much I was valued. It all worked out but those years were more miserable than they should have been. Firms are a grind - no need to add more stress.

TL,DR: don’t panic. This is common and your feelings are common. If this isn’t 6 months of being slow or 3-4 months of being slow when everyone else is super busy, I wouldn’t worry. Be financially responsible and save your $ so you have a safety net if things suddenly turn. That will help you sleep better.

[Anonymous User]

I’ve been practicing for about 10 years - half at a firm and half in-house. First, everyone take a deep breath. Being a junior associate is stressful. Hours are erradixt erratic, your skills are still soft/imperfect and there’s a steep learning curve. You will make mistakes. We all do, even as you get more senior (you just tend to catch them earlier or be more aware). This isn’t to discourage you from exploring other opportunities. It never hurts to know the market but I encourage you to balance that view with the possibility that things are just slow. Deals are cyclical. My old firm valued me a great deal and I still went through slow periods like you’ve described for even longer periods of time. I similarly was panicked, so your reaction is understandable and I empathize. I write all of this to let you know that this is common and your gut feeling that you may be on the chopping block isn’t necessarily an accurate view. Firm life is stressful and high pressure, so it stokes anxiety which can bleed into life concerns (like losing your job). Talk to associates or partners you trust about your path, but don’t do it in a panicked, the sky is falling type of way. Tell them you want to continue to improve and learn (focus on positive, not the fact that you screwed up before) and that you’ve been light in work lately. If there’s a work coordinator that doles out work, talk to them. In particular, I’d recommend talking to a mid or senior associate that’s recently been through it. I wouldn’t be completely candid with them but you can express that you’re worried that you’re not getting enough work to support your development during a critical time in your career. With that said, I would not recommend having these conversations if you’ve only been slow for a few months unless everyone else is totally flat out busy. Partners spread work around, they don’t staff people on deals mid-deal, etc., so it’s not uncommon to be slow. Enjoy the free time as best you can! You will miss it when you’re crushed again. I was constantly worried about being fired for the first 3 years of practicing...it was stupid because it only stressed me out and wasted energy. I failed to realize how much I was valued. It all worked out but those years were more miserable than they should have been. Firms are a grind - no need to add more stress.

TL,DR: don’t panic. This is common and your feelings are common. If this isn’t 6 months of being slow or 3-4 months of being slow when everyone else is super busy, I wouldn’t worry. Be financially responsible and save your $ so you have a safety net if things suddenly turn. That will help you sleep better.

OP here - this is a great perspective, and just so helpful and relieving. Thank you so much for taking the time to write it.

[Anonymous User]

Talk to the partner on the deal you did a good job on and see what’s up. If you badly screwed up your first deal at the firm, you are going to be at the bottom of people who get work. It’s very difficult to overcome if the firm isn’t busy.

You need some honest advice about your future at the firm.

Yeah. I think you're right. I have had coffee with that partner, and he did provide me some very helpful advice.