I think I'm being pushed out of my firm

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Re: I think I'm being pushed out of my firm

Postby Anonymous User » Tue Oct 16, 2018 1:16 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
6333co wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:Well, our billable target is 1950 so 1800 wouldn’t be crazy and I think that’s what I’m pacing right now. Even though I still plan to leave, it’s nice to hear a less pessimistic/alarmist perspective.


You risk nothing by looking elsewhere because, even if this was all a misunderstanding and you're on the partner track, your firm will let you know and beg you to stay once you take this other offer to them. OTOH, if you take this other offer to them and they wish you well, then you know you dodged a bullet.


Is this true? I am in the lateral process now, and wondering if when I give notice (if I'm lucky enough to get an offer) anyone will do anything to try to keep me around.


From my experience, it is very unlikely even if you’re great.

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Re: I think I'm being pushed out of my firm

Postby Anonymous User » Tue Oct 16, 2018 1:40 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:
6333co wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:Well, our billable target is 1950 so 1800 wouldn’t be crazy and I think that’s what I’m pacing right now. Even though I still plan to leave, it’s nice to hear a less pessimistic/alarmist perspective.


You risk nothing by looking elsewhere because, even if this was all a misunderstanding and you're on the partner track, your firm will let you know and beg you to stay once you take this other offer to them. OTOH, if you take this other offer to them and they wish you well, then you know you dodged a bullet.


Is this true? I am in the lateral process now, and wondering if when I give notice (if I'm lucky enough to get an offer) anyone will do anything to try to keep me around.


From my experience, it is very unlikely even if you’re great.


Different anon who recently lateraled. FWIW, I had partners try to convince me to stay at my old firm, but my old firm was lower on the prestige totem pole and had been hemorrhaging people, due to things both within and outside of the firm's control. So YMMV.

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Re: I think I'm being pushed out of my firm

Postby Anonymous User » Tue Oct 16, 2018 2:16 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:
6333co wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:Well, our billable target is 1950 so 1800 wouldn’t be crazy and I think that’s what I’m pacing right now. Even though I still plan to leave, it’s nice to hear a less pessimistic/alarmist perspective.


You risk nothing by looking elsewhere because, even if this was all a misunderstanding and you're on the partner track, your firm will let you know and beg you to stay once you take this other offer to them. OTOH, if you take this other offer to them and they wish you well, then you know you dodged a bullet.


Is this true? I am in the lateral process now, and wondering if when I give notice (if I'm lucky enough to get an offer) anyone will do anything to try to keep me around.


From my experience, it is very unlikely even if you’re great.


Different anon who recently lateraled. FWIW, I had partners try to convince me to stay at my old firm, but my old firm was lower on the prestige totem pole and had been hemorrhaging people, due to things both within and outside of the firm's control. So YMMV.



Another anon who lateraled a year ago - I also had partners try to convince me to stay (they all really liked me and were kind of offended I was leaving). I honestly don't think it's worth "leveraging" a new offer to try and get something more out of your current firm - all the reasons I was trying to leave were still going to be true if I stayed (other than if, say, they had been able to match the finances). It was important to me to be very clear to the partners I worked for about what was happening: I was leaving, and I wasn't negotiating with them, so no one ended up frustrated and upset. I was told on my last day that people were impressed with how I handled the situation.

Of course, if you want to negotiate and try and stay, then fine, but why not have that type of honest conversation before you accept a job offer (i.e., how is my career progressing, how can I get more work, do you think I'm on track, what can I do to improve), rather than waiting until people are upset and may or may not promise you things that they have no intention of implementing once they've convinced you to stay. In 6 months they're going to be back to their old patterns, only they'll know you tried to leave. Don't put yourself in that position if you have the types of relationships where you can just sit down and check in on your career (and if you don't have those relationships...well, that's all you need to know).

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Monochromatic Oeuvre

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Re: I think I'm being pushed out of my firm

Postby Monochromatic Oeuvre » Tue Oct 16, 2018 9:04 pm

6333co wrote:
It varies by firm but, as a whole, the top 100 firms are stagnating in terms of revenue growth. It's been like this for a while. I can find the links if you need them.


Revenue is not stagnating and, Amlaw 100 taken as a whole, it never was. *Demand* was stagnating for years, but as you highlighted, rate increases were contributing to growth.

Many firms--maybe you could say more--did not grow by the pertinent metrics at the same rates they had it the past. But describing the biggest firms right now, as a whole, as anything but richer than they've ever been mischaracterizes the data.

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Re: I think I'm being pushed out of my firm

Postby 6333co » Tue Oct 16, 2018 10:17 pm

Monochromatic Oeuvre wrote:
6333co wrote:
It varies by firm but, as a whole, the top 100 firms are stagnating in terms of revenue growth. It's been like this for a while. I can find the links if you need them.


Revenue is not stagnating and, Amlaw 100 taken as a whole, it never was. *Demand* was stagnating for years, but as you highlighted, rate increases were contributing to growth.

Many firms--maybe you could say more--did not grow by the pertinent metrics at the same rates they had it the past. But describing the biggest firms right now, as a whole, as anything but richer than they've ever been mischaracterizes the data.


I posted the evidence a few replies down. Here it is again https://medium.com/@jaesunum/dataviz-an ... 4a23683685 . It shows revenue growth for every firm over the last ten years. Dark blue = healthy revenue growth, light blue = poor revenue growth, pink/red = revenue decline. The last ten years is all light blue and pink for 95% of firms, with firms like Quinn being the exception.

I have no idea what kind of person needlessly enters a thread and, either through ignorance or dishonesty, lies through their teeth. In your case laziness plays a role too because I posted the evidence just a few replies below the one your'e replying you. And your moniker is a psychopath.

You epitomize why the legal profession is so atrocious. It's literally the worst profession in existence, because of people like you. You're a liar or stupid, and you think a psychopath is cool. You're just a fucking cretin. Fuck you you low life despicable piece of shit on the bottom of my shoe. I'm so glad I'm not in the law anymore. And with that I'm out of this forum too. Fuck all of you lawyers. You really deserve your misery.

Moderator note: 6333co warned. Profanity-fueled personal attacks ("you're just a fucking cretin. Fuck you you low life despicable piece of shit on the bottom of my shoe.") are not permitted on TLS. -QContinuum

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Monochromatic Oeuvre

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Re: I think I'm being pushed out of my firm

Postby Monochromatic Oeuvre » Tue Oct 16, 2018 11:27 pm

I forgot how much I love the Internet.

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Re: I think I'm being pushed out of my firm

Postby mvp99 » Tue Oct 16, 2018 11:44 pm

Monochromatic Oeuvre wrote:I forgot how much I love the Internet.


Image

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BaiAilian2013

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Re: I think I'm being pushed out of my firm

Postby BaiAilian2013 » Wed Oct 17, 2018 9:05 am

Anonymous User wrote:
6333co wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:Well, our billable target is 1950 so 1800 wouldn’t be crazy and I think that’s what I’m pacing right now. Even though I still plan to leave, it’s nice to hear a less pessimistic/alarmist perspective.


You risk nothing by looking elsewhere because, even if this was all a misunderstanding and you're on the partner track, your firm will let you know and beg you to stay once you take this other offer to them. OTOH, if you take this other offer to them and they wish you well, then you know you dodged a bullet.


Is this true? I am in the lateral process now, and wondering if when I give notice (if I'm lucky enough to get an offer) anyone will do anything to try to keep me around.

I've seen two midlevels get asked to stay after giving notice. Both did stay, interestingly. One was made a bunch of promises, absolutely none of which came true, but not offered a raise or bonus or anything. The other I suspect got an official counteroffer, but I wasn't close enough to the situation to know for sure.

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Re: I think I'm being pushed out of my firm

Postby LBJ's Hair » Wed Oct 17, 2018 1:59 pm

6333co wrote:
Monochromatic Oeuvre wrote:
6333co wrote:
It varies by firm but, as a whole, the top 100 firms are stagnating in terms of revenue growth. It's been like this for a while. I can find the links if you need them.


Revenue is not stagnating and, Amlaw 100 taken as a whole, it never was. *Demand* was stagnating for years, but as you highlighted, rate increases were contributing to growth.

Many firms--maybe you could say more--did not grow by the pertinent metrics at the same rates they had it the past. But describing the biggest firms right now, as a whole, as anything but richer than they've ever been mischaracterizes the data.


I posted the evidence a few replies down. Here it is again https://medium.com/@jaesunum/dataviz-an ... 4a23683685 . It shows revenue growth for every firm over the last ten years. Dark blue = healthy revenue growth, light blue = poor revenue growth, pink/red = revenue decline. The last ten years is all light blue and pink for 95% of firms, with firms like Quinn being the exception.

I have no idea what kind of person needlessly enters a thread and, either through ignorance or dishonesty, lies through their teeth. In your case laziness plays a role too because I posted the evidence just a few replies below the one your'e replying you. And your moniker is a psychopath.

You epitomize why the legal profession is so atrocious. It's literally the worst profession in existence, because of people like you. You're a liar or stupid, and you think a psychopath is cool. You're just a fucking cretin. Fuck you you low life despicable piece of shit on the bottom of my shoe. I'm so glad I'm not in the law anymore. And with that I'm out of this forum too. Fuck all of you lawyers. You really deserve your misery.

Moderator note: 6333co warned. Profanity-fueled personal attacks ("you're just a fucking cretin. Fuck you you low life despicable piece of shit on the bottom of my shoe.") are not permitted on TLS. -QContinuum


What lol. I looked at this page - dark blue is "20%+ revenue growth." It is *impossible* to grow *revenue* 20% in perpetuity. I don't care if you're Google, law of large numbers says growth will slow down. It's like the fable about getting one grain of rice the first day, two the next day...eventually the entire planet would be 200 feet deep.

Like, if Skadden today is growing low-single-digits revenue on a basis that's many multiples of what it was in 1999, that's fine. Still healthy hiring for new associates. To illustrate: Growing 2% on $1,000 is equivalent to growing 20% on $100 on a dollar basis.
Last edited by QContinuum on Wed Oct 17, 2018 2:02 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Reason: Outed for anon abuse.

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Re: I think I'm being pushed out of my firm

Postby Anonymous User » Mon Oct 22, 2018 12:31 am

Different anon. Same situation as OP but worse, it started out earlier in the year the same way it looks for OP now-- very little billable work coming my way. We recently had "the talk" and they gave me three months lead time to find something while still being employed, admitting that it wasn't my fault, it was just a result of the lack of billable work in my practice area. Get started on the job search ASAP, even if you're not being pushed out at least you'll have a few leads lined up as backup.

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Re: I think I'm being pushed out of my firm

Postby QContinuum » Mon Oct 22, 2018 1:00 am

Anonymous User wrote:Different anon. Same situation as OP but worse, it started out earlier in the year the same way it looks for OP now-- very little billable work coming my way. We recently had "the talk" and they gave me three months lead time to find something while still being employed, admitting that it wasn't my fault, it was just a result of the lack of billable work in my practice area. Get started on the job search ASAP, even if you're not being pushed out at least you'll have a few leads lined up as backup.


Very sorry to hear that. Hope you can get them to extend your website time beyond the 3 months. Best of luck finding something - fingers crossed for you!

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Re: I think I'm being pushed out of my firm

Postby Anonymous User » Mon Oct 22, 2018 8:03 am

Anonymous User wrote:Different anon. Same situation as OP but worse, it started out earlier in the year the same way it looks for OP now-- very little billable work coming my way. We recently had "the talk" and they gave me three months lead time to find something while still being employed, admitting that it wasn't my fault, it was just a result of the lack of billable work in my practice area. Get started on the job search ASAP, even if you're not being pushed out at least you'll have a few leads lined up as backup.


So sorry to hear this. Were you looking to leave? How long into your 3 months are you? Do you feel like you'll land on your feet?

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Re: I think I'm being pushed out of my firm

Postby Anonymous User » Mon Oct 22, 2018 9:11 am

Checking in -- rising second year with only ~1300 hours YTD. I believe I am in the bottom of my class in terms of billable hours -- not sure if I was frozen out or I just didn't hustle enough in the free market system we have. Everyone keeps saying I'm fine and that my reviews are good, but words don't really match actions from my perspective, especially when everyone else is busy. I think I will begin looking and hopefully be able to get a signing bonus if I lateral to make me hole for missing a bonus this year. What do you think?

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Re: I think I'm being pushed out of my firm

Postby Anonymous User » Mon Oct 22, 2018 9:17 am

Anonymous User wrote:Checking in -- rising second year with only ~1300 hours YTD. I believe I am in the bottom of my class in terms of billable hours -- not sure if I was frozen out or I just didn't hustle enough in the free market system we have. Everyone keeps saying I'm fine and that my reviews are good, but words don't really match actions from my perspective, especially when everyone else is busy. I think I will begin looking and hopefully be able to get a signing bonus if I lateral to make me hole for missing a bonus this year. What do you think?


I’m not sure I’d be that concerned given you’re only a year in. If people say you’re performing well and you don’t have any reason to doubt that, I’d say that it doesn’t hurt to look but I wouldn’t jump ship out of fear for something that doesn’t actually appeal to you.

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Re: I think I'm being pushed out of my firm

Postby Anonymous User » Mon Oct 22, 2018 11:07 am

Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:Different anon. Same situation as OP but worse, it started out earlier in the year the same way it looks for OP now-- very little billable work coming my way. We recently had "the talk" and they gave me three months lead time to find something while still being employed, admitting that it wasn't my fault, it was just a result of the lack of billable work in my practice area. Get started on the job search ASAP, even if you're not being pushed out at least you'll have a few leads lined up as backup.


So sorry to hear this. Were you looking to leave? How long into your 3 months are you? Do you feel like you'll land on your feet?


Thanks. Almost a full month now. I've had a few interviews but no offers yet. Hoping that there will be more availability once people start leaving their jobs after getting year-end bonuses. :cry:



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