Boies v. Cravath Forum

[Anonymous User]

Will probably go for second looks. At law school in cA, looking for general reputation in litigation, substantive work, exit options, etc. Thanks

[gaddockteeg]

I'm at a USAO. We consider ourselves less prestige snobby than other USAOs but there's something Wachtell and Cravath, NY offices only, on incoming resumes that gets people here to take a second look. FWIW.

[Anonymous User]

This is a bit of a no-brainer if you know you are interested in lit. Boies is known to offer among the most substantive experiences of any lit shop, offers potentially significantly greater compensation, and is well know enough in New York especially that the exit options in lit will be terrific. Working at Cravath in lit does not hold more weight than most other firms (Paul Weiss, DPW, Debevoise etc.) and the fact that you will have opportunities to be involved in trials early on at Boies will be valuable if you want to be an AUSA or go to a more boutique-y lit shop. Also, because Boies is more selective than Cravath due to size, compensation etc, you have the potential to build amazing connections and to develop closer relationships with partners that are former AUSAs or have held other desirable positions. Full disclosure: I am going to Paul Weiss over Cravath and I did not get an offer from Boies, but would have definitely chosen them had I been given one.

[ParisHilton]

http://www.top-law-schools.com/forums/v ... 3&t=193512

[Anonymous User]

Boies will pay you more and you will get better trial experience, 100000%. Found the associates at Boies very impressive. My main concern (offered at both, chose a different firm) with Boies is...what happens when David dies? Doubt anyone on this forum can answer that question, but he like *is* Boies Schiller. How much in $ per year is he worth to their bottom line, like $30M? $50M? More?

[jbagelboy]

I'm at a USAO. We consider ourselves less prestige snobby than other USAOs but there's something Wachtell and Cravath, NY offices only, on incoming resumes that gets people here to take a second look. FWIW.

This is wrong for every USAO I’ve interacted with. Wachtell gets a nod, especially at SDNY, but Cravath is treated no differently from any other top corporate firm. Boies associates tend to be better qualified.

[Anonymous User]

Boies will pay you more and you will get better trial experience, 100000%. Found the associates at Boies very impressive. My main concern (offered at both, chose a different firm) with Boies is...what happens when David dies? Doubt anyone on this forum can answer that question, but he like *is* Boies Schiller. How much in $ per year is he worth to their bottom line, like $30M? $50M? More?

BSF is not David Boies. His share of the firm’s clients and revenue has dwindled over the past few years to less than 10%, and as of February, the firm’s management structure shifted power away from David and towards Schiller and DC. At this point someone like Bill Isaacson is as important if not more than David Boies to the firm’s future.

[TheProsecutor]

I'm at a USAO. We consider ourselves less prestige snobby than other USAOs but there's something Wachtell and Cravath, NY offices only, on incoming resumes that gets people here to take a second look. FWIW.

This is wrong for every USAO I’ve interacted with. Wachtell gets a nod, especially at SDNY, but Cravath is treated no differently from any other top corporate firm. Boies associates tend to be better qualified.

Same. The things that stand out as prestige markers for USAOs

Supreme Court clerkships
Main Justice high profile cases
Wachtell Lipton Rosen & Katz - Litigation
Williams & Connolly
Yale Law School.


Things that are very helpful:

Interning at USAO during law school
Federal clerkship (in my experience, I see no preference for appellate v. District court)
Working in White Collar/Investigations in Biglaw
Strong letters of rec from former AUSAs
Strong grades from a good law school

As for Boies v. Cravath, I would honestly choose Cravath. Cravath is a better name. Cravath's partners are all superstars. If you can start there and make it to partner, your name is golden in legal circles. You can always lateral to Boies later if it doesn't work out at Cravath. You're not going to lateral to Cravath.

[Anonymous User]

I am not sure why it is a given that one can easily lateral from Cravath to Boies. At my HYS school Boies is considered far more desirable for litigation and is certainly significantly more grade-selective than Cravath. And in terms of one day becoming an AUSA, one (BSF) is going to give you early trial experience and the other is not.

[Shaggier1]

If you are getting offers from both these places, you are likely a solid clerkship candidate. You should plan for the possibility that you will clerk after law school and then look to go somewhere other than where you summered.

If I was going to be in that position I would really want a Cravath SA position on my resume.

[jbagelboy]

If you are getting offers from both these places, you are likely a solid clerkship candidate. You should plan for the possibility that you will clerk after law school and then look to go somewhere other than where you summered.

If I was going to be in that position I would really want a Cravath SA position on my resume.

For what possible reason? Bsf is certainly a more desirable firm to go back to after clerking. (Which might explain why a substantially higher % of it’s lawyers have clerked.).

As far as credentials are concerned, be assured that once you’re at the level of prestigious federal clerkship, no one gives a shit about your SA firm, esp if it’s one with a ginormous 100+ person summer class

[plurilingue]

Boies is really overrated. Plenty of mediocre credentials there (e.g., GW, UCLA, etc.). I don't consider one better than the other.

[QContinuum]

Boies is really overrated. Plenty of mediocre credentials there (e.g., GW, UCLA, etc.). I don't consider one better than the other.

But how do you know these lawyers are "mediocre"? A hypothetical top 5% UCLA student with CoA clerkship would certainly look more prestigious to my eyes (and, I suspect, to many partners/associates) than a median T13 student with generic D. Ct. clerkship. There are very few firms that categorically refuse to hire outside the T13; even the most selective are generally willing to take the tip-top students from lower-ranked schools, which is a position that makes a lot of logical sense. I can think of only one exception off the top of my head, and even that is only a specific office within the firm, not a firmwide policy.

[nealric]

I'm at a USAO. We consider ourselves less prestige snobby than other USAOs but there's something Wachtell and Cravath, NY offices only, on incoming resumes that gets people here to take a second look. FWIW.

I'm sure you get tons of resumes from the Cravath London office

[FLSstdnt2021]

This is a bit of a no-brainer if you know you are interested in lit. Boies is known to offer among the most substantive experiences of any lit shop, offers potentially significantly greater compensation, and is well know enough in New York especially that the exit options in lit will be terrific. Working at Cravath in lit does not hold more weight than most other firms (Paul Weiss, DPW, Debevoise etc.) and the fact that you will have opportunities to be involved in trials early on at Boies will be valuable if you want to be an AUSA or go to a more boutique-y lit shop. Also, because Boies is more selective than Cravath due to size, compensation etc, you have the potential to build amazing connections and to develop closer relationships with partners that are former AUSAs or have held other desirable positions. Full disclosure: I am going to Paul Weiss over Cravath and I did not get an offer from Boies, but would have definitely chosen them had I been given one.

Can I ask why you choSE PW?

[Anonymous User]

Any further thoughts on this? (2L going through same choice).

[Anonymous User]

Any further thoughts on this? (2L going through same choice).

Both firms have been discussed a lot on these boards, but I myself am curious if there's further thoughts, especially because as far as I recall, there was discussion here that BSF was changing its bonus formula at some point soon and then we didn't hear if it did.

I went through a similar process (hence the anon post) and made a decision based, in the end, on my best guess of where I'd want to be 2-3 years from now: in a rock-solid, reliable, but also (professionally) conservative and predictable workplace, or someplace more dynamic but also more risky and volatile?

[BlackAndOrange84]

Any further thoughts on this? (2L going through same choice).

Both firms have been discussed a lot on these boards, but I myself am curious if there's further thoughts, especially because as far as I recall, there was discussion here that BSF was changing its bonus formula at some point soon and then we didn't hear if it did.

I went through a similar process (hence the anon post) and made a decision based, in the end, on my best guess of where I'd want to be 2-3 years from now: in a rock-solid, reliable, but also (professionally) conservative and predictable workplace, or someplace more dynamic but also more risky and volatile?

There have been one or two threads recently on Boies. Use the search function. Long story short, I and some others think the perceived "risk" and "volatility" of Boies is way overstated. What is not overstated is that as a junior you will get better experience at BSF and are highly likely to have well above Cravath compensation. You will also work harder.

[RedGiant]

I'm at a USAO. We consider ourselves less prestige snobby than other USAOs but there's something Wachtell and Cravath, NY offices only, on incoming resumes that gets people here to take a second look. FWIW.

I'm sure you get tons of resumes from the Cravath London office

I lolz'd at this too. At least when I was at CSM London (MANY years ago), there was no lit whatsoever, unless you were an unfortunate NY associate working on a case/depos in London for a few months.