Notre Dame has had a terrible OCI season. Has OCI been a bloodbath at any other schools this year? Forum

(On Campus Interviews, Summer Associate positions, Firm Reviews, Tips, ...)
Forum rules
Anonymous Posting

Anonymous posting is only appropriate when you are revealing sensitive employment related information about a firm, job, etc. You may anonymously respond on topic to these threads. Unacceptable uses include: harassing another user, joking around, testing the feature, or other things that are more appropriate in the lounge.

Failure to follow these rules will get you outed, warned, or banned.
Anonymous User
Posts: 427953
Joined: Tue Aug 11, 2009 9:32 am

Re: Notre Dame has had a terrible OCI season. Has OCI been a bloodbath at any other schools this year?

Post by Anonymous User » Sat Aug 25, 2018 10:41 pm

Anonymous User wrote:lol Notre Dame 3L here. I will echo what most other people have said: I think our 2Ls are doing fine at OCI but some of the top performers in their class are just weird AS FUCK and that's why they can't get jobs.

As far as the cheating scandal, I think the issue most people had with it was how fucking dumb the cheating was. First, it's cheating on legal research, an easy one-credit class. Second, they literally made a google doc and shared it will a bunch of people using their notre dame accounts. If you're going to cheat, don't be a fucking dumbass about it.

The Title IX complaint is more worrying. The fact that a 2L has bragged about bringing guns to school and keeps threatening to shoot people, including girls who are rightfully creeped out by his behavior, is most concerning to me. Considering that this kid has already been kicked out of Northwestern, idk why the administration didn't kick him out right away.
What is going on in Notre Dame

Anonymous User
Posts: 427953
Joined: Tue Aug 11, 2009 9:32 am

Re: Notre Dame has had a terrible OCI season. Has OCI been a bloodbath at any other schools this year?

Post by Anonymous User » Sat Aug 25, 2018 10:43 pm

We are all scurrying aboard a sinking ship. The SS Biglaw. Come get your slop while it's hot.

Anonymous User
Posts: 427953
Joined: Tue Aug 11, 2009 9:32 am

Re: Notre Dame has had a terrible OCI season. Has OCI been a bloodbath at any other schools this year?

Post by Anonymous User » Sat Aug 25, 2018 10:49 pm

It’s still funny to me that some ND students think ND places like Vandy or Wash U when it’s closer to Fordham.

Realistically, chances of getting a biglaw job from OCI at ND aren’t that great. Probably 20-30% in a given year. So, most people will strike out. I went to a school that places better than ND and it felt like no one got a job at oci. It’s a normal feeling. Plus no one wants to talk about it because it’s awkward.

If what some people mentioned is true (socially awkward top students), then that will probably closer to 20% instead of 30%.

Thanks for telling us all about your cheating scandals and psychopaths, though.

Anonymous User
Posts: 427953
Joined: Tue Aug 11, 2009 9:32 am

Re: Notre Dame has had a terrible OCI season. Has OCI been a bloodbath at any other schools this year?

Post by Anonymous User » Sat Aug 25, 2018 11:17 pm

Anonymous User wrote:It’s still funny to me that some ND students think ND places like Vandy or Wash U when it’s closer to Fordham.

Realistically, chances of getting a biglaw job from OCI at ND aren’t that great. Probably 20-30% in a given year. So, most people will strike out. I went to a school that places better than ND and it felt like no one got a job at oci. It’s a normal feeling. Plus no one wants to talk about it because it’s awkward.

If what some people mentioned is true (socially awkward top students), then that will probably closer to 20% instead of 30%.

Thanks for telling us all about your cheating scandals and psychopaths, though.
NDLS alum and this post is credited. The Notre Dame Law School brand does not carry that far outside of Chicago in legal circles especially Biglaw, unlike its undergrad counterpart which carries nationally. Most Notre Dame alums I interviewed with at the Callback stage were alums of the undergrad, but went to higher ranked law schools.

I think a lot of incoming students conflate the national brand (undergrad) with the law school when they put down their seat deposits as 1l. The ones who did the best at OCI had strong STRONG midwest ties....and seeing as 1/2 the class is from the coasts you get a lot of instant dings from Chicago interviewers.

Want to continue reading?

Register now to search topics and post comments!

Absolutely FREE!


Anonymous User
Posts: 427953
Joined: Tue Aug 11, 2009 9:32 am

Re: Notre Dame has had a terrible OCI season. Has OCI been a bloodbath at any other schools this year?

Post by Anonymous User » Sun Aug 26, 2018 12:22 am

Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:It’s still funny to me that some ND students think ND places like Vandy or Wash U when it’s closer to Fordham.

Realistically, chances of getting a biglaw job from OCI at ND aren’t that great. Probably 20-30% in a given year. So, most people will strike out. I went to a school that places better than ND and it felt like no one got a job at oci. It’s a normal feeling. Plus no one wants to talk about it because it’s awkward.

If what some people mentioned is true (socially awkward top students), then that will probably closer to 20% instead of 30%.

Thanks for telling us all about your cheating scandals and psychopaths, though.
NDLS alum and this post is credited. The Notre Dame Law School brand does not carry that far outside of Chicago in legal circles especially Biglaw, unlike its undergrad counterpart which carries nationally. Most Notre Dame alums I interviewed with at the Callback stage were alums of the undergrad, but went to higher ranked law schools.

I think a lot of incoming students conflate the national brand (undergrad) with the law school when they put down their seat deposits as 1l. The ones who did the best at OCI had strong STRONG midwest ties....and seeing as 1/2 the class is from the coasts you get a lot of instant dings from Chicago interviewers.
I mean, I'm not entirely sure about this. ND did place about 45% in FedClerkships/Biglaw - those numbers are in between WUSTL and Fordham. Though I would say some of the Biglaw hires fall outside of OCI and also follow that 100-200 lawyer definition rather than the 501+ definition. I think the law school's brand is solid but it still benefits from the undergrad brand. When I was networking over the summer, the ND undergrads were every bit as helpful and excited to meet/network as the law grads. You get access to the undergrad network and the law network, so I didn't feel like I was missing out.

Completely agree that it's really a Chicago school though. If you want NY here you can get NY but you really have to take your own initiative and network in rather than rely on the OCI and OCIP process. Admissions does market California too which I think is outright wrong - that market is completely closed to anyone but the top 15% folks.

Anonymous User
Posts: 427953
Joined: Tue Aug 11, 2009 9:32 am

Re: Notre Dame has had a terrible OCI season. Has OCI been a bloodbath at any other schools this year?

Post by Anonymous User » Sun Aug 26, 2018 1:11 am

Not all jobs come through OCI. At UCLA, ~40% go into big law, and only about 20% of those jobs come out of OCI. The other half are through mass mailing, networking, 1L and 3L hires, etc. OCI is not the end all, be all, so if you're worried OCI isn't going to pan out, talk to your career services and start a game plan.

Anonymous User
Posts: 427953
Joined: Tue Aug 11, 2009 9:32 am

Re: Notre Dame has had a terrible OCI season. Has OCI been a bloodbath at any other schools this year?

Post by Anonymous User » Sun Aug 26, 2018 1:42 am

LA definitely feels like a bloodbath this year. I'm Top 10% at USC/UCLA and couldn't even land a single LA callback. If it wasn't for applying to NorCal/Orange County I'd have struck out completely at OCI.
Anonymous User wrote:I know that at least one of them considered transferring but they felt pretty betrayed by the school. Luckily Gurule and Robinson were apparently allstars w/ that but all in all this is a great class with great people - every school deals with this stuff.
LOL I'm gonna call BS that other similarly situated schools are dealing with cheating scandals and Title IX stuff. NDLS 2020 sounds wretched as a student body.

Anonymous User
Posts: 427953
Joined: Tue Aug 11, 2009 9:32 am

Re: Notre Dame has had a terrible OCI season. Has OCI been a bloodbath at any other schools this year?

Post by Anonymous User » Sun Aug 26, 2018 2:05 am

Anonymous User wrote: The Title IX complaint is more worrying. The fact that a 2L has bragged about bringing guns to school and keeps threatening to shoot people, including girls who are rightfully creeped out by his behavior, is most concerning to me. Considering that this kid has already been kicked out of Northwestern, idk why the administration didn't kick him out right away.
.
Last edited by Anonymous User on Sun Aug 26, 2018 12:57 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Want to continue reading?

Register for access!

Did I mention it was FREE ?


Anonymous User
Posts: 427953
Joined: Tue Aug 11, 2009 9:32 am

Re: Notre Dame has had a terrible OCI season. Has OCI been a bloodbath at any other schools this year?

Post by Anonymous User » Sun Aug 26, 2018 10:49 am

Graduated ND in 2018. I think our class and the 19 class did a pretty good job securing BL employment (esp those who wanted it).

Most students from the Midwest had great outcomes. IMO ND is a great school if you want to work in IN, OH, WI, MI, KY and probably a few other midwestern states. Oddly enough, I also saw a lot of kids have success in FL. I did notice some people struggle wanting to go back to the west coast. Not many people try NYC from ND from my observations.

I would assume that about 30% get their jobs through OCI and the remaining maybe 18% of the biglaw folks get them through mass mail etc... (don’t quote me in the exact biglaw/fedclerk %) For reference, I’m working in the biggest office/law firm in my midwestern city but I don’t think by numbers it qualifies as big Law.

Never heard about the threatening 2020 class member while I was there. Has anybody taken it outside of NDLS admin?

Anonymous User
Posts: 427953
Joined: Tue Aug 11, 2009 9:32 am

Re: Notre Dame has had a terrible OCI season. Has OCI been a bloodbath at any other schools this year?

Post by Anonymous User » Sun Aug 26, 2018 10:53 am

Anonymous User wrote:It’s still funny to me that some ND students think ND places like Vandy or Wash U when it’s closer to Fordham.

Realistically, chances of getting a biglaw job from OCI at ND aren’t that great. Probably 20-30% in a given year. So, most people will strike out. I went to a school that places better than ND and it felt like no one got a job at oci. It’s a normal feeling. Plus no one wants to talk about it because it’s awkward.

If what some people mentioned is true (socially awkward top students), then that will probably closer to 20% instead of 30%.

Thanks for telling us all about your cheating scandals and psychopaths, though.
For what it's worth Fordham has actually bested WUSTL in big law placement for 3 of the past 5 years. I do agree with you though that Vandy is a step above the rest in that respect.

Anonymous User
Posts: 427953
Joined: Tue Aug 11, 2009 9:32 am

Re: Notre Dame has had a terrible OCI season. Has OCI been a bloodbath at any other schools this year?

Post by Anonymous User » Sun Aug 26, 2018 10:58 am

Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:It’s still funny to me that some ND students think ND places like Vandy or Wash U when it’s closer to Fordham.

Realistically, chances of getting a biglaw job from OCI at ND aren’t that great. Probably 20-30% in a given year. So, most people will strike out. I went to a school that places better than ND and it felt like no one got a job at oci. It’s a normal feeling. Plus no one wants to talk about it because it’s awkward.

If what some people mentioned is true (socially awkward top students), then that will probably closer to 20% instead of 30%.

Thanks for telling us all about your cheating scandals and psychopaths, though.
For what it's worth Fordham has actually bested WUSTL in big law placement for 3 of the past 5 years. I do agree with you though that Vandy is a step above the rest in that respect.
I’d argue that NDLS comparably places near WUSTL FWIW. I don’t know the exact numbers. Vandy clearly beats both though.

Anonymous User
Posts: 427953
Joined: Tue Aug 11, 2009 9:32 am

Re: Notre Dame has had a terrible OCI season. Has OCI been a bloodbath at any other schools this year?

Post by Anonymous User » Sun Aug 26, 2018 11:30 am

Since when is 100-200 considered "biglaw"? Maybe 200+, but the question should be how many students are being placed into AmLaw, market paying large firms. Working at an 800 lawyer shop for $60,000/y isn't exactly the outcome people want.

Register now!

Resources to assist law school applicants, students & graduates.

It's still FREE!


Anonymous User
Posts: 427953
Joined: Tue Aug 11, 2009 9:32 am

Re: Notre Dame has had a terrible OCI season. Has OCI been a bloodbath at any other schools this year?

Post by Anonymous User » Sun Aug 26, 2018 11:32 am

Anonymous User wrote:It’s still funny to me that some ND students think ND places like Vandy or Wash U when it’s closer to Fordham.

Realistically, chances of getting a biglaw job from OCI at ND aren’t that great. Probably 20-30% in a given year. So, most people will strike out. I went to a school that places better than ND and it felt like no one got a job at oci. It’s a normal feeling. Plus no one wants to talk about it because it’s awkward.

If what some people mentioned is true (socially awkward top students), then that will probably closer to 20% instead of 30%.

Thanks for telling us all about your cheating scandals and psychopaths, though.
According to LST -

WUSTL fed clerk+biglaw: 49.2%
Vandy: 67%
Fordham: 41.8%
ND: 44.9%

It’s funny to me that some WUSTL students think it places like Vandy when it’s closer to Fordham.

Anonymous User
Posts: 427953
Joined: Tue Aug 11, 2009 9:32 am

Re: Notre Dame has had a terrible OCI season. Has OCI been a bloodbath at any other schools this year?

Post by Anonymous User » Sun Aug 26, 2018 11:50 am

Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:It’s still funny to me that some ND students think ND places like Vandy or Wash U when it’s closer to Fordham.

Realistically, chances of getting a biglaw job from OCI at ND aren’t that great. Probably 20-30% in a given year. So, most people will strike out. I went to a school that places better than ND and it felt like no one got a job at oci. It’s a normal feeling. Plus no one wants to talk about it because it’s awkward.

If what some people mentioned is true (socially awkward top students), then that will probably closer to 20% instead of 30%.

Thanks for telling us all about your cheating scandals and psychopaths, though.
According to LST -

WUSTL fed clerk+biglaw: 49.2%
Vandy: 67%
Fordham: 41.8%
ND: 44.9%

It’s funny to me that some WUSTL students think it places like Vandy when it’s closer to Fordham.
I’m the anon that keeps getting quoted. The year I graduated from law school, ND’a biglaw + Fed clerkship % was 36%. Vandy was around 57%. It’s clearly gotten better in recent years, but my comment stands regarding Vandy. I accept that including Wash U was a bit of a stretch.

ND normally places around BU/BC/Fordham (mostly because they benefit from being in cities). This year it is above. My graduating year, it was below.

But for placement purposes, it isn’t in the same echelon as Vandy.

Edit: was 36% and not 33% for ND and 57% and not 45% for Vandy (was remembering 2015’s 47%). Also, for those curious, class of 2016

hoos89

Gold
Posts: 2166
Joined: Sun Jan 08, 2012 11:09 pm

Re: Notre Dame has had a terrible OCI season. Has OCI been a bloodbath at any other schools this year?

Post by hoos89 » Sun Aug 26, 2018 1:01 pm

Anonymous User wrote:Since when is 100-200 considered "biglaw"? Maybe 200+, but the question should be how many students are being placed into AmLaw, market paying large firms. Working at an 800 lawyer shop for $60,000/y isn't exactly the outcome people want.
Firms of 100+ tend to pay pretty well, and we simply don't have better data. The ABA doesn't require a breakdown by salary. 100+ attorneys and fed clerkship is an imperfect proxy for good outcomes, but it is both under and overinclusive.

Anonymous User
Posts: 427953
Joined: Tue Aug 11, 2009 9:32 am

Re: Notre Dame has had a terrible OCI season. Has OCI been a bloodbath at any other schools this year?

Post by Anonymous User » Sun Aug 26, 2018 2:07 pm

3L at ND going to NY V50. I know of several people at ND, including some not on law review, who are going to V50s in NY. There are also several in my class who placed into V20s in Chicago. ND is by no means close to the job security of a T14, but for a non-T14 school, it feels like a very safe one to be at. You definitely have to be above median and be a decent interviewer to be competitive, but I (like a lot of my friends) had a few offers from V100s in either NY or Chicago. I think ND is getting a slightly worse rep than it deserves from some of these anecdotes. As mentioned above, the 2019 class is just an exceptionally odd class in that a lot of their high achievers are socially off (the kid that keeps getting brought up is on law review). That being said, other classes have placed exceptionally well in biglaw and I'm sure other classes will continue to do so.

Get unlimited access to all forums and topics

Register now!

I'm pretty sure I told you it's FREE...


User avatar
Pomeranian

Bronze
Posts: 306
Joined: Thu May 05, 2016 10:23 pm

Re: Notre Dame has had a terrible OCI season. Has OCI been a bloodbath at any other schools this year?

Post by Pomeranian » Sun Aug 26, 2018 2:36 pm

Lol at the cheating scandal. Is this what the ND admissions office meant by "educating a different type of lawyer" :shock:

nixy

Gold
Posts: 4445
Joined: Fri Feb 16, 2018 8:58 am

Re: Notre Dame has had a terrible OCI season. Has OCI been a bloodbath at any other schools this year?

Post by nixy » Sun Aug 26, 2018 2:43 pm

Pomeranian wrote:Lol at the cheating scandal. Is this what the ND admissions office meant by "educating a different type of lawyer" :shock:
Frankly I think cheating pales compared to someone raising concerns with a gun, sheesh.

Anonymous User
Posts: 427953
Joined: Tue Aug 11, 2009 9:32 am

Re: Notre Dame has had a terrible OCI season. Has OCI been a bloodbath at any other schools this year?

Post by Anonymous User » Sun Aug 26, 2018 3:01 pm

Anonymous User wrote:3L at ND going to NY V50. I know of several people at ND, including some not on law review, who are going to V50s in NY. There are also several in my class who placed into V20s in Chicago. ND is by no means close to the job security of a T14, but for a non-T14 school, it feels like a very safe one to be at. You definitely have to be above median and be a decent interviewer to be competitive, but I (like a lot of my friends) had a few offers from V100s in either NY or Chicago. I think ND is getting a slightly worse rep than it deserves from some of these anecdotes. As mentioned above, the 2019 class is just an exceptionally odd class in that a lot of their high achievers are socially off (the kid that keeps getting brought up is on law review). That being said, other classes have placed exceptionally well in biglaw and I'm sure other classes will continue to do so.
Anon who posted this. Meant 2020 class.

Anonymous User
Posts: 427953
Joined: Tue Aug 11, 2009 9:32 am

Re: Notre Dame has had a terrible OCI season. Has OCI been a bloodbath at any other schools this year?

Post by Anonymous User » Sun Aug 26, 2018 3:46 pm

Call it northern elitism or w/e but I honestly think Duke and Vandy only do so well in employment because no one wants to live and work in the South.

Communicate now with those who not only know what a legal education is, but can offer you worthy advice and commentary as you complete the three most educational, yet challenging years of your law related post graduate life.

Register now, it's still FREE!


Anonymous User
Posts: 427953
Joined: Tue Aug 11, 2009 9:32 am

Re: Notre Dame has had a terrible OCI season. Has OCI been a bloodbath at any other schools this year?

Post by Anonymous User » Sun Aug 26, 2018 3:50 pm

Anonymous User wrote:Call it northern elitism or w/e but I honestly think Duke and Vandy only do so well in employment because no one wants to live and work in the South.
This is a dumbass hot take.

Anonymous User
Posts: 427953
Joined: Tue Aug 11, 2009 9:32 am

Re: Notre Dame has had a terrible OCI season. Has OCI been a bloodbath at any other schools this year?

Post by Anonymous User » Sun Aug 26, 2018 4:01 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:Call it northern elitism or w/e but I honestly think Duke and Vandy only do so well in employment because no one wants to live and work in the South.
This is a dumbass hot take.
It's too strong of a take, but a lot of the schools mentioned in this thread (Fordham, ND, etc.) place primarily in some of the most competitive markets (NY, Chi, Cal to a lesser extent) rather than in the south.

Anonymous User
Posts: 427953
Joined: Tue Aug 11, 2009 9:32 am

Re: Notre Dame has had a terrible OCI season. Has OCI been a bloodbath at any other schools this year?

Post by Anonymous User » Sun Aug 26, 2018 4:06 pm

ND places pretty well in big law. It’s ranked top 25 in big law placements. The more substantial issue it seems is that many NDLS gravitate towards Chicago and overestimate their ability to secure a big law firm offer in this market.

I always encourage students (from ND and other schools) to apply to secondary markets and also apply to NYC (more summer associate positions). Illinois will be UBE soon..you can still make similar compensation and lateral after 1-3 years. You lose nothing by applying and receiving an offer. You can always turn it down.

lavarman84

Platinum
Posts: 8500
Joined: Thu May 28, 2015 5:01 pm

Re: Notre Dame has had a terrible OCI season. Has OCI been a bloodbath at any other schools this year?

Post by lavarman84 » Sun Aug 26, 2018 4:20 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:Call it northern elitism or w/e but I honestly think Duke and Vandy only do so well in employment because no one wants to live and work in the South.
This is a dumbass hot take.
It's too strong of a take, but a lot of the schools mentioned in this thread (Fordham, ND, etc.) place primarily in some of the most competitive markets (NY, Chi, Cal to a lesser extent) rather than in the south.
Dumbass accurately sums up the take. Why are all you people posting as anons?

Seriously? What are you waiting for?

Now there's a charge.
Just kidding ... it's still FREE!


Post Reply Post Anonymous Reply  

Return to “Legal Employment”