Notre Dame has had a terrible OCI season. Has OCI been a bloodbath at any other schools this year? Forum

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Re: Notre Dame has had a terrible OCI season. Has OCI been a bloodbath at any other schools this year?

Post by Anonymous User » Thu Aug 23, 2018 8:06 am

Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:
OP here. Not projecting in the slightest. I accepted an offer from a V10 in one of the markets you mentioned (with a GPA above median and strong ties to the market). You know very well that there are plenty of people in our class who have either already struck out or are in danger of doing so - and the replies to this thread show that NDLS is far from alone.

EDIT: Missed a word
Congratulations on your result, and please forgive the snarkiness. Is this not the nature of the beast, though? Coming to NDLS, one ought to know ahead of time that our combined fed clerk + big law placement vacillates between 45-50%. That big law callbacks/offers (thus far, that is - it's still relatively early) might have been somewhat redistributed away from the high GPAs of the class to students with relevant work experience, good interview skills, good networking, etc. isn't something I think is cause for alarm.

Coming to NDLS, I knew I had a shot at big law. A shot. But I also knew (if anything, from lurking on this forum) that people at higher ranked schools also struggle for the same jobs in the same markets. Bidding on secondary markets is a must here, imo.
45-50% is being generous, too. 2017 wasn’t 48.9%, it was 44.9%. And the prior years hovered around 40% including clerkships. ND always places in the mid-to-high 30% for 9/10 months out, so it shouldn’t be surprising that only a 1/3 or less get biglaw through oci.

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Re: Notre Dame has had a terrible OCI season. Has OCI been a bloodbath at any other schools this year?

Post by Anonymous User » Thu Aug 23, 2018 9:53 am

NDLS class of 2019 (3L) here. I saw this post and wanted to make a couple points:

Whether or not OCI hiring across the board is going through a dip this year, the class of 2020 at ND has had several issues:

1. There was a cheating scandal in your legal research classes that left several students accused of cheating on an exam.

2. There was a Title IX violation in the first couple weeks of class.

3. Two students transferred out (for those here not familiar with ND, my class and the class above me had zero transfers out. Transferring out of ND isn't very common for whatever reason). So you lost some of the best quality that would've been very competitive in OCI.

Again, it may be true that the only issue with your class' OCI results is the across-the-board dip in hiring, but it's worth noting that your class has had an exceptional number of issues that most ND classes (and most law school classes across the board) don't have.

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Re: Notre Dame has had a terrible OCI season. Has OCI been a bloodbath at any other schools this year?

Post by Anonymous User » Thu Aug 23, 2018 10:35 am

People said the same thing about my lower t-14 when I went through OCI (mvpb). Literally the same things (bloodbath, interviewing skills, work experience, etc). At the end of the day almost everyone who did OCI got something through OCI, and almost everyone who didn’t get something through OCI did get something equivalent by mass mailing. A few didn’t get anything at the end of the day.

The biggest predictor of how easy someone had It at OCI was grades for sure. Above median, people had tons of offers, below median people generally had 1-3 offers. It wasn’t a bloodbath. it just wasn’t the automatic handing out of highly elite jobs like candy that some people for some reason thought it would be. And yes, interviewing skills and work experience can help, particularly if the work experience is relevant (think consulting, ibanking, big4 accounting).

Wait for the end of the process to judge it. Better yet, wait for your school to release statistics from this class before you judge it. I bet It will be similar to past years.

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Re: Notre Dame has had a terrible OCI season. Has OCI been a bloodbath at any other schools this year?

Post by Anonymous User » Thu Aug 23, 2018 12:06 pm

Anonymous User wrote:NDLS class of 2019 (3L) here. I saw this post and wanted to make a couple points:

Whether or not OCI hiring across the board is going through a dip this year, the class of 2020 at ND has had several issues:

1. There was a cheating scandal in your legal research classes that left several students accused of cheating on an exam.

2. There was a Title IX violation in the first couple weeks of class.

3. Two students transferred out (for those here not familiar with ND, my class and the class above me had zero transfers out. Transferring out of ND isn't very common for whatever reason). So you lost some of the best quality that would've been very competitive in OCI.

Again, it may be true that the only issue with your class' OCI results is the across-the-board dip in hiring, but it's worth noting that your class has had an exceptional number of issues that most ND classes (and most law school classes across the board) don't have.
NDLS 2020 here - we actually had at least 4 people that I know of transfer out

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Re: Notre Dame has had a terrible OCI season. Has OCI been a bloodbath at any other schools this year?

Post by Effingham » Thu Aug 23, 2018 12:42 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:NDLS class of 2019 (3L) here. I saw this post and wanted to make a couple points:

Whether or not OCI hiring across the board is going through a dip this year, the class of 2020 at ND has had several issues:

1. There was a cheating scandal in your legal research classes that left several students accused of cheating on an exam.

2. There was a Title IX violation in the first couple weeks of class.

3. Two students transferred out (for those here not familiar with ND, my class and the class above me had zero transfers out. Transferring out of ND isn't very common for whatever reason). So you lost some of the best quality that would've been very competitive in OCI.

Again, it may be true that the only issue with your class' OCI results is the across-the-board dip in hiring, but it's worth noting that your class has had an exceptional number of issues that most ND classes (and most law school classes across the board) don't have.
NDLS 2020 here - we actually had at least 4 people that I know of transfer out
2017 lost a few too - pretty sure transfers out have nothing to do with this...or any of the other comments by the way, which almost certainly shouldn’t be posted to this forum.

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Re: Notre Dame has had a terrible OCI season. Has OCI been a bloodbath at any other schools this year?

Post by Anonymous User » Thu Aug 23, 2018 1:04 pm

Why all the secrecy around your dirty laundry? Stifling people from saying things here probably won't stop the news from spreading one way or another anyways. Besides, it's not like people from other schools are saying that they're doing amazing either.

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Re: Notre Dame has had a terrible OCI season. Has OCI been a bloodbath at any other schools this year?

Post by Anonymous User » Thu Aug 23, 2018 1:15 pm

Anonymous User wrote:Why all the secrecy around your dirty laundry? Stifling people from saying things here probably won't stop the news from spreading one way or another anyways. Besides, it's not like people from other schools are saying that they're doing amazing either.
Also NDLS 2020 here - since we're airing it all out, the Title IX complaint was withdrawn almost as quickly as it was filed. And since we're casting moral aspersions, let's not forget that members of the 2019 class also made the conscious decision to invite implicated students from that same cheating scandal onto law review and moot court.

The previous poster's comment about transfers is irrelevant. NDLS will place roughly 40% in big law and federal clerkships like it always has.

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Re: Notre Dame has had a terrible OCI season. Has OCI been a bloodbath at any other schools this year?

Post by Anonymous User » Thu Aug 23, 2018 2:21 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:Why all the secrecy around your dirty laundry? Stifling people from saying things here probably won't stop the news from spreading one way or another anyways. Besides, it's not like people from other schools are saying that they're doing amazing either.
Also NDLS 2020 here - since we're airing it all out, the Title IX complaint was withdrawn almost as quickly as it was filed. And since we're casting moral aspersions, let's not forget that members of the 2019 class also made the conscious decision to invite implicated students from that same cheating scandal onto law review and moot court.

The previous poster's comment about transfers is irrelevant. NDLS will place roughly 40% in big law and federal clerkships like it always has.
NDLS 17 here. Please continue, the whole world should know how toxic the culture is and the amount of drama that occurs at NDLS. I enjoy reading about this.

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Re: Notre Dame has had a terrible OCI season. Has OCI been a bloodbath at any other schools this year?

Post by kyle010723 » Thu Aug 23, 2018 3:34 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:Why all the secrecy around your dirty laundry? Stifling people from saying things here probably won't stop the news from spreading one way or another anyways. Besides, it's not like people from other schools are saying that they're doing amazing either.
Also NDLS 2020 here - since we're airing it all out, the Title IX complaint was withdrawn almost as quickly as it was filed. And since we're casting moral aspersions, let's not forget that members of the 2019 class also made the conscious decision to invite implicated students from that same cheating scandal onto law review and moot court.

The previous poster's comment about transfers is irrelevant. NDLS will place roughly 40% in big law and federal clerkships like it always has.
NDLS 17 here. Please continue, the whole world should know how toxic the culture is and the amount of drama that occurs at NDLS. I enjoy reading about this.
For real, lets keep dragging the name of our good school through mud why don't we.

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Anonymous User
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Re: Notre Dame has had a terrible OCI season. Has OCI been a bloodbath at any other schools this year?

Post by Anonymous User » Thu Aug 23, 2018 3:42 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:Why all the secrecy around your dirty laundry? Stifling people from saying things here probably won't stop the news from spreading one way or another anyways. Besides, it's not like people from other schools are saying that they're doing amazing either.
Also NDLS 2020 here - since we're airing it all out, the Title IX complaint was withdrawn almost as quickly as it was filed. And since we're casting moral aspersions, let's not forget that members of the 2019 class also made the conscious decision to invite implicated students from that same cheating scandal onto law review and moot court.

The previous poster's comment about transfers is irrelevant. NDLS will place roughly 40% in big law and federal clerkships like it always has.
NDLS 17 here. Please continue, the whole world should know how toxic the culture is and the amount of drama that occurs at NDLS. I enjoy reading about this.
Did it occur in a NORTH QUAD MEN'S RESIDENCE HALL?

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Re: Notre Dame has had a terrible OCI season. Has OCI been a bloodbath at any other schools this year?

Post by Grazzhoppa » Thu Aug 23, 2018 3:44 pm

woops not sure why my poast above re NORTH QUAD was anonymous

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Re: Notre Dame has had a terrible OCI season. Has OCI been a bloodbath at any other schools this year?

Post by Anonymous User » Thu Aug 23, 2018 5:49 pm

Word from a MVP school is that median has been a strong break point, above has been doing well in all markets, below not as much

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Re: Notre Dame has had a terrible OCI season. Has OCI been a bloodbath at any other schools this year?

Post by Anonymous User » Thu Aug 23, 2018 6:11 pm

Median at MVP and have been doing exceptionally well with callbacks and offers. Some friends even below median have snagged one or two. Market looks fine to me, but maybe tougher at lower schools.

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Re: Notre Dame has had a terrible OCI season. Has OCI been a bloodbath at any other schools this year?

Post by Anonymous User » Thu Aug 23, 2018 6:16 pm

Median at MVP. 6 CBs in NY out of 18 screeners. 3 offers so far, waiting on news from the other 3. Nothing in v20, but also far from a strike out.

Also did 15 CA screeners though and received rejections from every single one despite being from CA. Take it for what you will.

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Re: Notre Dame has had a terrible OCI season. Has OCI been a bloodbath at any other schools this year?

Post by Anonymous User » Thu Aug 23, 2018 7:32 pm

Top 10% at HYS, and on the road to striking out.

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Re: Notre Dame has had a terrible OCI season. Has OCI been a bloodbath at any other schools this year?

Post by Anonymous User » Thu Aug 23, 2018 7:39 pm

Anonymous User wrote:Top 10% at HYS, and on the road to striking out.
Sorry to hear that. Which market(s) did you target? If not NYC, I'd imagine that there are still NY firms left that would love to snag a HYS top 10% if you massmail.

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Re: Notre Dame has had a terrible OCI season. Has OCI been a bloodbath at any other schools this year?

Post by Anonymous User » Thu Aug 23, 2018 7:46 pm

California (HYS top 10% poster above)

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Re: Notre Dame has had a terrible OCI season. Has OCI been a bloodbath at any other schools this year?

Post by Anonymous User » Thu Aug 23, 2018 7:49 pm

Anonymous User wrote:California (HYS top 10% poster above)
Seems like CA is very tough this year. I would start massmailing NYC asap if you haven't already done so.

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Re: Notre Dame has had a terrible OCI season. Has OCI been a bloodbath at any other schools this year?

Post by Anonymous User » Fri Aug 24, 2018 9:05 am

HLS and on law review. I got 5 CBs and so far radio silence from all but one firm. :lol:

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Re: Notre Dame has had a terrible OCI season. Has OCI been a bloodbath at any other schools this year?

Post by Anonymous User » Fri Aug 24, 2018 9:16 am

Anonymous User wrote:HLS and on law review. I got 5 CBs and so far radio silence from all but one firm. :lol:
Did you mainly target only DC and/or CA?

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Re: Notre Dame has had a terrible OCI season. Has OCI been a bloodbath at any other schools this year?

Post by Anonymous User » Fri Aug 24, 2018 9:20 am

Anonymous User wrote:California (HYS top 10% poster above)
Appreciably worse stats but still: MVD, well inside top quarter, law review, targeting a secondary market with ties and seems like I am going to strike out.

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Re: Notre Dame has had a terrible OCI season. Has OCI been a bloodbath at any other schools this year?

Post by Anonymous User » Fri Aug 24, 2018 9:27 am

semi-counterpoint: way below median at T6 with 4 pre oci cbs —> 2 offers, 1 rejection, and am still waiting on one in Palo Alto. I have tech WE and strong ties to CA as well as what has been described to me as a “great and amicable personality” :roll:

HOWEVER the LA market was an utter bloodbath for me... did 11 screeners and got 0 cbs. Also got only 1 Bay Area cb our of about 5 screeners at oci (cut many screeners due to aforementioned offers). By contrast got 2/3 cbs and offers in NYC.

CA: do pre-oci or [figuratively] die (or have better grades than me maybe). Or be prepared to start in NYC.

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Re: Notre Dame has had a terrible OCI season. Has OCI been a bloodbath at any other schools this year?

Post by Anonymous User » Fri Aug 24, 2018 11:49 am

Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:HLS and on law review. I got 5 CBs and so far radio silence from all but one firm. :lol:
Did you mainly target only DC and/or CA?
Mainly targeted Boston

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Re: Notre Dame has had a terrible OCI season. Has OCI been a bloodbath at any other schools this year?

Post by Anonymous User » Sat Aug 25, 2018 7:03 pm

ND 2L here. Targeted Chicago exclusively and had double digit callbacks with a GPA roughly top 35-40%. I'd take the OP's words with a grain of salt. I'm aware of a lot of students with a solid amount of callbacks while I also know some top performers in our class that are barely capable of holding a conversation. Let's just let this pan out instead of matching anecdotes to anecdotes.

FWIW I do think that the common theme of "interviewing skills and experience" over just grades has some truth to it. I do consider myself a solid interviewer but am a K-JD with merely above average grades - I genuinely didn't expect to have as many callbacks as I did - it's an unpredictable season, I think there's a lot of factors firms are looking at that we just don't know about.

Edit: also read through the comments on cheating scandal etc. That stuff did happen, and it made our class VERY paranoid and salty. We had some other classmates get falsely accused of cheating after the LR scandal. I say falsely because they took it to a hearing and got acquitted - I know that at least one of them considered transferring but they felt pretty betrayed by the school. Luckily Gurule and Robinson were apparently allstars w/ that but all in all this is a great class with great people - every school deals with this stuff.

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Re: Notre Dame has had a terrible OCI season. Has OCI been a bloodbath at any other schools this year?

Post by Anonymous User » Sat Aug 25, 2018 10:33 pm

lol Notre Dame 3L here. I will echo what most other people have said: I think our 2Ls are doing fine at OCI but some of the top performers in their class are just weird AS FUCK and that's why they can't get jobs.

As far as the cheating scandal, I think the issue most people had with it was how fucking dumb the cheating was. First, it's cheating on legal research, an easy one-credit class. Second, they literally made a google doc and shared it will a bunch of people using their notre dame accounts. If you're going to cheat, don't be a fucking dumbass about it.

The Title IX complaint is more worrying. The fact that a 2L has bragged about bringing guns to school and keeps threatening to shoot people, including girls who are rightfully creeped out by his behavior, is most concerning to me. Considering that this kid has already been kicked out of Northwestern, idk why the administration didn't kick him out right away.

Seriously? What are you waiting for?

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