Fried Frank (NY) v. Milbank (NY) v. Paul Hastings (NY) Forum

[Anonymous User]

Enjoyed meeting people at all three firms. Undecided between litigation and transactional work. Does anyone have any experience with any of these firms? Which firm will give me the best exit options? How real are the "associate satisfaction" survey results?

[Anonymous User]

I’d be really wary of associate satisfaction survey results. Just based on rep in the NY market, I’d choose between Fried Frank and Milbank. Do you have any interest in RE or bankruptcy work? Here are their chambers rankings.

Fried Frank:

Corporate/M&A: The Elite (Band 4)
Employee Benefits & Executive Compensation (Band 3)
Litigation: General Commercial: Highly Regarded (Band 2)
Litigation: White-Collar Crime & Government Investigations (Band 3)
Real Estate: Mainly Corporate & Finance (Band 3)
Real Estate: Mainly Dirt (Band 1)
Tax (Band 3)

Milbank:

Bankruptcy/Restructuring (Band 1)
Corporate/M&A: Highly Regarded (Band 3)
Latin American Investment (Band 1)
Litigation: General Commercial: The Elite (Band 4)
Litigation: Securities (Band 3)
Litigation: White-Collar Crime & Government Investigations (Band 3)
Real Estate: Mainly Corporate & Finance (Band 3)
Tax (Band 3)

Paul Hastings:

Corporate/M&A: Highly Regarded (Band 3)
Intellectual Property: Patent (Band 2)
Labor & Employment (Band 3)
Latin American Investment (Band 2)
Litigation: General Commercial: Highly Regarded (Band 2)
Real Estate: Mainly Dirt (Band 3)
Tax Recognised Practitioner

[Anonymous User]

Former FF associate here. If you're undecided between litigation and corporate, go Milbank (with the caveat that I have no idea how their system for group assignment works). FF will force you to choose between litigation and corporate after your SA and it is very difficult to switch once you start as an associate.

If you are leaning more towards corporate, it's a toss-up. Both great firms in that regard. I don't have a bad thing to say about the people at FF.

Edit: I think PH is clearly out here. Have not heard good things from people who work there,

[Anonymous User]

I’d be really wary of associate satisfaction survey results. Just based on rep in the NY market, I’d choose between Fried Frank and Milbank. Do you have any interest in RE or bankruptcy work? Here are their chambers rankings.

Fried Frank:

Corporate/M&A: The Elite (Band 4)
Employee Benefits & Executive Compensation (Band 3)
Litigation: General Commercial: Highly Regarded (Band 2)
Litigation: White-Collar Crime & Government Investigations (Band 3)
Real Estate: Mainly Corporate & Finance (Band 3)
Real Estate: Mainly Dirt (Band 1)
Tax (Band 3)

Milbank:

Bankruptcy/Restructuring (Band 1)
Corporate/M&A: Highly Regarded (Band 3)
Latin American Investment (Band 1)
Litigation: General Commercial: The Elite (Band 4)
Litigation: Securities (Band 3)
Litigation: White-Collar Crime & Government Investigations (Band 3)
Real Estate: Mainly Corporate & Finance (Band 3)
Tax (Band 3)

Paul Hastings:

Corporate/M&A: Highly Regarded (Band 3)
Intellectual Property: Patent (Band 2)
Labor & Employment (Band 3)
Latin American Investment (Band 2)
Litigation: General Commercial: Highly Regarded (Band 2)
Real Estate: Mainly Dirt (Band 3)
Tax Recognised Practitioner

Thanks! This is helpful. No interest in RE or Bankruptcy. Really only considering Corporate/M&A or Litigation.

[Anonymous User]

Former FF associate here. If you're undecided between litigation and corporate, go Milbank (with the caveat that I have no idea how their system for group assignment works). FF will force you to choose between litigation and corporate after your SA and it is very difficult to switch once you start as an associate.

If you are leaning more towards corporate, it's a toss-up. Both great firms in that regard. I don't have a bad thing to say about the people at FF.

Edit: I think PH is clearly out here. Have not heard good things from people who work there,

Thanks for the feedback. As a former FF associate, what were your hours like? Was there pressure to stay late even when you weren't busy? Were you allowed to work from home? Also, do first year associates share offices?

As to your point about PH: what kinds of things have you heard? Any specifics?

[Anonymous User]

Former FF associate here. If you're undecided between litigation and corporate, go Milbank (with the caveat that I have no idea how their system for group assignment works). FF will force you to choose between litigation and corporate after your SA and it is very difficult to switch once you start as an associate.

If you are leaning more towards corporate, it's a toss-up. Both great firms in that regard. I don't have a bad thing to say about the people at FF.

Edit: I think PH is clearly out here. Have not heard good things from people who work there,

Thanks for the feedback. As a former FF associate, what were your hours like? Was there pressure to stay late even when you weren't busy? Were you allowed to work from home? Also, do first year associates share offices?

As to your point about PH: what kinds of things have you heard? Any specifics?

Quoted anon. My hours weren't awful but weren't great. I was in a non-M&A corporate group. Typically worked from 10-8 at the office, went to the gym for an hour, and then logged back in from 9-11 most nights to turn comments or something like that. Had weekend work maybe once a month and never pulled an all-nighter. I got cracks from people in my group when I left before 8:00 but I had a good relationship with most of them so it was mostly just ribbing. On working from home - totally group/partner specific. I had partners in my group who didn't care where I was and actively encouraged remote work, and I had others who walked the halls and wanted to know where you were. First years and second years share offices. Supposed to get your own as a third year but they were running out of space when I left.

[Anonymous User]

Former FF associate here. If you're undecided between litigation and corporate, go Milbank (with the caveat that I have no idea how their system for group assignment works). FF will force you to choose between litigation and corporate after your SA and it is very difficult to switch once you start as an associate.

If you are leaning more towards corporate, it's a toss-up. Both great firms in that regard. I don't have a bad thing to say about the people at FF.

Edit: I think PH is clearly out here. Have not heard good things from people who work there,

Thanks for the feedback. As a former FF associate, what were your hours like? Was there pressure to stay late even when you weren't busy? Were you allowed to work from home? Also, do first year associates share offices?

As to your point about PH: what kinds of things have you heard? Any specifics?

Quoted anon. My hours weren't awful but weren't great. I was in a non-M&A corporate group. Typically worked from 10-8 at the office, went to the gym for an hour, and then logged back in from 9-11 most nights to turn comments or something like that. Had weekend work maybe once a month and never pulled an all-nighter. I got cracks from people in my group when I left before 8:00 but I had a good relationship with most of them so it was mostly just ribbing. On working from home - totally group/partner specific. I had partners in my group who didn't care where I was and actively encouraged remote work, and I had others who walked the halls and wanted to know where you were. First years and second years share offices. Supposed to get your own as a third year but they were running out of space when I left.

You poor New Yorkers. Viewing that regular schedule as anything other than awful is a very skewed perception, especially with the other aspects you highlighted.

Also, to the OP: Avoid PH at all costs, especially if you're leaning corporate. Completely toxic culture (mostly driven by negative partner-associate interactions) and there has been inconsistent work flow for quite some time now.

[Anonymous User]

Is the above true re: PH? I've heard of only one bad partner but generally, from what I can tell and have heard from associates there, the culture and partners/associates seem to be pretty great. The comment about workflow might be true though.

[Anonymous User]

Former FF associate here. If you're undecided between litigation and corporate, go Milbank (with the caveat that I have no idea how their system for group assignment works). FF will force you to choose between litigation and corporate after your SA and it is very difficult to switch once you start as an associate.

If you are leaning more towards corporate, it's a toss-up. Both great firms in that regard. I don't have a bad thing to say about the people at FF.

Edit: I think PH is clearly out here. Have not heard good things from people who work there,

Thanks for the feedback. As a former FF associate, what were your hours like? Was there pressure to stay late even when you weren't busy? Were you allowed to work from home? Also, do first year associates share offices?

As to your point about PH: what kinds of things have you heard? Any specifics?

Quoted anon. My hours weren't awful but weren't great. I was in a non-M&A corporate group. Typically worked from 10-8 at the office, went to the gym for an hour, and then logged back in from 9-11 most nights to turn comments or something like that. Had weekend work maybe once a month and never pulled an all-nighter. I got cracks from people in my group when I left before 8:00 but I had a good relationship with most of them so it was mostly just ribbing. On working from home - totally group/partner specific. I had partners in my group who didn't care where I was and actively encouraged remote work, and I had others who walked the halls and wanted to know where you were. First years and second years share offices. Supposed to get your own as a third year but they were running out of space when I left.

You poor New Yorkers. Viewing that regular schedule as anything other than awful is a very skewed perception, especially with the other aspects you highlighted.

Also, to the OP: Avoid PH at all costs, especially if you're leaning corporate. Completely toxic culture (mostly driven by negative partner-associate interactions) and there has been inconsistent work flow for quite some time now.

I've heard that this is what the culture at PH used to be like. I've also heard a lot about how they've been trying very hard to improve the culture over the last few years. Is this not true?

[Anonymous User]

Former FF associate here. If you're undecided between litigation and corporate, go Milbank (with the caveat that I have no idea how their system for group assignment works). FF will force you to choose between litigation and corporate after your SA and it is very difficult to switch once you start as an associate.

If you are leaning more towards corporate, it's a toss-up. Both great firms in that regard. I don't have a bad thing to say about the people at FF.

Edit: I think PH is clearly out here. Have not heard good things from people who work there,

Thanks for the feedback. As a former FF associate, what were your hours like? Was there pressure to stay late even when you weren't busy? Were you allowed to work from home? Also, do first year associates share offices?

As to your point about PH: what kinds of things have you heard? Any specifics?

Quoted anon. My hours weren't awful but weren't great. I was in a non-M&A corporate group. Typically worked from 10-8 at the office, went to the gym for an hour, and then logged back in from 9-11 most nights to turn comments or something like that. Had weekend work maybe once a month and never pulled an all-nighter. I got cracks from people in my group when I left before 8:00 but I had a good relationship with most of them so it was mostly just ribbing. On working from home - totally group/partner specific. I had partners in my group who didn't care where I was and actively encouraged remote work, and I had others who walked the halls and wanted to know where you were. First years and second years share offices. Supposed to get your own as a third year but they were running out of space when I left.

You poor New Yorkers. Viewing that regular schedule as anything other than awful is a very skewed perception, especially with the other aspects you highlighted.

Also, to the OP: Avoid PH at all costs, especially if you're leaning corporate. Completely toxic culture (mostly driven by negative partner-associate interactions) and there has been inconsistent work flow for quite some time now.

Quoted anon again. Let me provide some color on hours. By logging back in from 9-11 I meant that, generally, you were expected to be within an hour of a computer on weeknights to do work. Weeks went by when I didn't actually do any work after 8. Trying to get the point across that it wasn't as if you could shut down at 7 or 8 and go home and be left alone for the night (which is comparable to every NY law firm and almost every corporate group in any major market). My other point was that the work was steady in the non-M&A groups with rarely any fire drills. I billed those hours from 10-8 almost every day so it was easy to hit bonus without sacrificing weekends.

On pressure to stay late/facetime requirement - again, this is going to be 100% group and partner specific. I wasn't bothered by the aspects you highlighted because, as I said, I had a good relationship with everyone I worked with and I let it roll off my back. Never affected a review, etc. And my summer program friends in different groups reported totally different experiences when it came to this. You can't generalize this stuff.

[Anonymous User]

Former FF associate here. If you're undecided between litigation and corporate, go Milbank (with the caveat that I have no idea how their system for group assignment works). FF will force you to choose between litigation and corporate after your SA and it is very difficult to switch once you start as an associate.

If you are leaning more towards corporate, it's a toss-up. Both great firms in that regard. I don't have a bad thing to say about the people at FF.

Edit: I think PH is clearly out here. Have not heard good things from people who work there,

Thanks for the feedback. As a former FF associate, what were your hours like? Was there pressure to stay late even when you weren't busy? Were you allowed to work from home? Also, do first year associates share offices?

As to your point about PH: what kinds of things have you heard? Any specifics?

Quoted anon. My hours weren't awful but weren't great. I was in a non-M&A corporate group. Typically worked from 10-8 at the office, went to the gym for an hour, and then logged back in from 9-11 most nights to turn comments or something like that. Had weekend work maybe once a month and never pulled an all-nighter. I got cracks from people in my group when I left before 8:00 but I had a good relationship with most of them so it was mostly just ribbing. On working from home - totally group/partner specific. I had partners in my group who didn't care where I was and actively encouraged remote work, and I had others who walked the halls and wanted to know where you were. First years and second years share offices. Supposed to get your own as a third year but they were running out of space when I left.

You poor New Yorkers. Viewing that regular schedule as anything other than awful is a very skewed perception, especially with the other aspects you highlighted.

Also, to the OP: Avoid PH at all costs, especially if you're leaning corporate. Completely toxic culture (mostly driven by negative partner-associate interactions) and there has been inconsistent work flow for quite some time now.

Quoted anon again. Let me provide some color on hours. By logging back in from 9-11 I meant that, generally, you were expected to be within an hour of a computer on weeknights to do work. Weeks went by when I didn't actually do any work after 8. Trying to get the point across that it wasn't as if you could shut down at 7 or 8 and go home and be left alone for the night (which is comparable to every NY law firm and almost every corporate group in any major market). My other point was that the work was steady in the non-M&A groups with rarely any fire drills. I billed those hours from 10-8 almost every day so it was easy to hit bonus without sacrificing weekends.

On pressure to stay late/facetime requirement - again, this is going to be 100% group and partner specific. I wasn't bothered by the aspects you highlighted because, as I said, I had a good relationship with everyone I worked with and I let it roll off my back. Never affected a review, etc. And my summer program friends in different groups reported totally different experiences when it came to this. You can't generalize this stuff.

When you say "without sacrificing weekends", does that mean you didn't have to respond to emails or calls or just that you didn't have to do any actual work? Just curious as to how free your weekends actually were.