International Students Beware

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Windjammer

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Re: International Students Beware

Postby Windjammer » Sat Aug 18, 2018 8:47 am

I think there's a lot of justified concern here. I noted how some legal job ads now require that you're a citizen. There's a shift in the legal culture.

I also think, however, that applicant reactions to that shift exacerbate outcomes, so here's a different perspective.

Anonymous User wrote:I'm an American-born Asian who did fine at OCI a few cycles ago, and it never crossed my mind that things such as firms specifically targeting only Asian students with sponsorship questions were taking place at big-name firms. When I interviewed, I filled out this questions on what seemed to be standard forms. Had it been made clear to me that only Asian students were being given these forms, that would have been very demoralizing. Experiences like these are incredibly hurtful to Asian-Americans.

I get that career services can't stop firms from doing what they will with sponsorship decisions, but I'm surprised they can't stop firms from behavior that is frankly a textbook example of racism.


I'm not Asian, but I don't know how many voluntary self-ID forms I was asked to complete the past weeks on disability/veteran/race questions, and a good subset of those forms asked whether I'd need to be work-sponsored. From what I understand, these forms go out to candidates irrespective of their background. That's just the paper work.

Then there's the interview. People want to know your life story. Why you went to law school. If you've lived or were born abroad, how you ended up here. How in the hell is that discrimination? I have an accent, I'm obviously not a citizen, I have a story to tell. Many times this summer, I was opposite an interviewer who found that story compelling. Who often times had a crazier story than myself. Where we'd connect because as cultural outsiders to corporate America we pride ourselves in who we are, and are grateful to the receptivity and generosity of this industry and nation.

CBs and offers left and right. Attitude and tone drive outcomes in this industry. You walk in and take offense at people inquiring about your background, you've just put a wall between them and you.

I see the same b/s with gender and marital status. It used to be that when people ask about family life, you'd peep over their shoulders, see photos of their children, and connect over that. But it's 2018 where my T14's school materials instruct me--literally--to tell the interviewer off and say that those questions are off limits. Because, discrimination.

Yeah, right. Because taking offense at innocuous social questions is a big selling point in this industry. It's how you win clients!

Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:It isn't racism or anything on purpose. People like people who are similar to them. This is natural.
I think it is definitely, without an iota of doubt, discrimination. It's hilarious when you compare biglaw to other professions. Compare it to the world's top IT companies where there are a material number of non-whites in all positions, including executive. Compare it to medicine, which is also diverse.


Absolutely, let's compare law to two professions where interpersonal skills are the absolute key to professional success and technical smarts are just a distant second. Sorry for the sarcasm, but aside from very justified grievances in this thread I see also a great amount of misunderstanding as to corporate etiquette, hiring patterns, and industry values in US big law.

Law firms are risk adverse, and between the mediocre, non-stand out candidate who played football in high school and a foreigner who's not adjusted to US social etiquette, will choose the former every single time. But there's a second factor. Biglaw is a service industry where firms hire based on putting people in front of clients. If a healthy subset of those clients is based in the EMEA or Asian markets, guess what? You'll have a leg up with firms because they know they can put you, and not some yokel from the deep South, in front of their clients without alienating those clients.

And in either case, it will have nothing to do with race and ethnicity, and all with culture, language, and upbringing.
And in either case, it will have to do with whether or not you know how to leverage all that positively--or view it as a chip on your shoulder.
Last edited by Windjammer on Sat Aug 18, 2018 8:52 am, edited 2 times in total.

Anonymous User
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Re: International Students Beware

Postby Anonymous User » Sat Aug 18, 2018 8:48 am

Anonymous User wrote:
rk42 wrote:Have any Canadians been having issues?


Not even close. In fact, after reading this thread, I'm glad that my Canadian UG was prominently displayed on my resume, and I always identified myself as Canadian (just because I really do feel that I'm Canadian). All the firms that offered me were basically white male paradise.


Canadian and Mexican qualify for TN status, so they don’t have to deal with the whole H1B nonsense.

Itwasascam

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Re: International Students Beware

Postby Itwasascam » Sat Aug 18, 2018 11:32 am

Don’t worry OP, Crazy Rich Asians will make all of this go away

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Re: International Students Beware

Postby Anonymous User » Sat Aug 18, 2018 2:33 pm

Itwasascam wrote:Don’t worry OP, Crazy Rich Asians will make all of this go away


8) 8) 8)

to116

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Re: International Students Beware

Postby to116 » Sat Aug 18, 2018 3:07 pm

rk42 wrote:Have any Canadians been having issues?


I am Canadian and just graduated from a t6. When i went through OCI 2 years ago, some firms at the call back stage had a standard questionnaire that asked about work sponsorship but I dont think it affected me (a lot of the big firms recruit out of UofT and McGill too). I did notice though that my firm automatically goes for an h1b for all canadians and not the TN. I dont know if that is a shift in policy because of trump and NAFTA or it was always like this.

Anonymous User
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Re: International Students Beware

Postby Anonymous User » Sat Aug 18, 2018 3:15 pm

I'm surprised that Ropes is doing this. Ropes hired a bunch of Asian Americans from my T-6 a few years ago during EIP. I thought they were one of the better places for Asian Americans to bid.

Anonymous User
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Re: International Students Beware

Postby Anonymous User » Sat Aug 18, 2018 4:45 pm

So, firms trying to get H1Bs through have been getting hammered by the Fed. I know one law firm, which is an AMLaw 100, which has had 4 associates be denied their H1B evwn though the people met all statutory requirements.

Npret

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Re: International Students Beware

Postby Npret » Sat Aug 18, 2018 6:00 pm

Anonymous User wrote:So, firms trying to get H1Bs through have been getting hammered by the Fed. I know one law firm, which is an AMLaw 100, which has had 4 associates be denied their H1B evwn though the people met all statutory requirements.

They were denied after winning the lottery? Do you know on what grounds?

Anonymous User
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Re: International Students Beware

Postby Anonymous User » Sat Aug 18, 2018 10:05 pm

Npret wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:So, firms trying to get H1Bs through have been getting hammered by the Fed. I know one law firm, which is an AMLaw 100, which has had 4 associates be denied their H1B evwn though the people met all statutory requirements.

They were denied after winning the lottery? Do you know on what grounds?



Yeah, what? This years crop of H1Bs picked in the lottery will only just have begun to start receiving approvals or requests for further evidence.

If you are referring to 4 people who didn’t get h1Bs in the lottery, this is a completely random process and this year has been better than many recent years for biglaw, due to the decrease in overall applicants.

Don’t fear monger.



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