Seeking Advice and Providing a Cautionary Tale Forum

[UnfortunateResult]

First time poster and 4+ year lurker. I've been having a really rough time lately and need some insight into my problems so I thought I should seek some advice.

I'm about a thread away from striking out at OCI. Here's the backstory: 3.74 GPA and 176 LSAT and I go to a T6 in NYC on Scholarship (the only thing that's kept me from dropping out at this point). Worked very hard in 1L but seemed to always miss the mark on exams. Got feedback and it seems like I wrote good exams but they were only good and not good enough. Finished 1L with a 3.18 and felt pretty shitty about it but got over it after a good night's sleep because I thought the chances of getting big law were good and I had several friends with lower grades than mine and I figured 1L grades don't make a career.

I networked like a madman (3-4 firm receptions a week for 6 weeks) and bid appropriately for fall OCI and ended up getting 28/30 bids. 26 of those firms were non-grade selective and 16 of those firms were large class size new york firms (the others were large class size firms in Texas or New York firms with class sizes under about 30 associates). I did one pre-OCI callback and picked up another 10 firms through add/drop, and one contacted me from mass mailing during the week of EIP for a total of 38 screeners and 1 callback interview.

Since OCI ended I've gotten 2 callbacks. I really don't know what to say. I thought I was interviewing well and seemed to have a good rapport with my interviewers. For example, I went to a reception the night before an interview and ended up speaking with my screener interviewer for about 30 minutes and the person said "we really want people like you to come to our firm and I hope I'm your interviewer tomorrow." I did the interview and thought it went well and never heard from the person or the firm (pretty sure I got dinged). I went to OCS the day before OCI finished and they told me not to worry because I was likely to hear. I mentioned I did 6 practice interviews 2 with OCI, 3 with working attorneys in NYC and 1 with a 3L at a V10 who got lots of offers and they all said I'm easy to talk to, I'm articulate in my answers, I had good body language, my attire was fine, and I asked good questions. After 6 practice interviews and a few hours of combined feedback, I thought I would be good for EIP.

The week after EIP I got no callbacks and did one with a firm I really like but focuses most of its hiring on laterals and isn't biglaw so, statistically speaking I'm doubtful if I'll get an offer. I've reflected on my interviews and I do think there are things I could have done better in hindsight. Apparently, I can be pedantic at times, and be too headstrong in interviews. I'm trying to be more passive but it's something I have to learn and not natural to me. Even when I am being myself I was told by OCS and after all my practice interviews that I'm a polite thoughtful person so it doesn't make sense to me how that one defect in my interview character could explain 37 rejections. Moreover, I interviewed with a former recruiter for a V10 today who now works at the place where I've interned and he said he thought I interviewed very well. It was frustrating to hear because I feel like I'm on the verge of striking out and I feel like so much of this is out of my control. I know I can be less headstrong in interviews (for example I got rejected by my pre-EIP callback and the attorney said after exchanging pleasantries I shouldn't have asked him about his work because I was too much too fast). I get that, but I thought it was natural because the person who brought me into his office interrupted him in the middle of his work and I was trying to show interest so I didn't think about it.

I've started mass mailing and I'm sending out applications to any firm that will look at me that can service my debt so I'm not picky (and there are a lot of good firms out there) but I've yet to hear anything. I'm hoping some of them will get back to me (although I'm often applying to multiple offices so I hope that doesn't work against me). In any case, besides mass mailing and signing up for fall OCI what else should I be doing? I really need a solid job (below market is fine) and I don't want to work public interest but not much is going my way. I do have a callback with a firm next week that I'm super stoked (it was the firm that contacted me through mass mailing) about and I'm preparing like hell for it but that's the only iron I have in the fire and with the way things are going I'm not holding my breath.

Any advice at all is welcome.

Also if you're a 0L and reading this I would advise you to think very carefully about going to law school. I did very well GPA and LSAT wise and got into a "good" school and I'm still struggling, so think long and hard if you wouldn't mind being in my position before you decide to go to law school.

[Anonymous User]

I think the position you're in is hardly as bad as you might think it is. Striking out at OCI might mean that you end up somewhere that isn't biglaw (although this is not NECESSARILY the case if you continue to hustle) but so what? You're on a scholarship and will have less debt than most. You probably don't NEED to get a biglaw job to survive or even do well.

I'd be more concerned about the person who went to law school because they had this idea in their head that biglaw is the dream and that's what they're gunning for. My biggest news flash was realizing I did all of this for a job I don't want, don't like, and can't wait to get far far away from (BIGLAW!!!).

I know it sucks to feel like you did everything "right" and things are going well but you WILL get through it and when you do you'll probably laugh at just how bent out of shape you got over this. I probably sound like a jackass but I truly don't mean to. I was quite like you,the sun rose and set on my accomplishments and whatever my perception of success was at the time. Of course, in the law school setting, success is getting all the callbacks and all the offers but in the real world it probably doesn't matter all that much because more likely than not you won't want the jobs you're not getting once you actually have one (this is based on the fact that MOST people WANT to leave at some point and the only thing that keeps them in biglaw is the paycheck).

[Anonymous User]

Op, sorry to hear this. OCI season can certainly feel like the make-it or break-it moment. As the poster above stated, you will likely be employed and perhaps even in a great job that would've never been on your radar had you secured an OCI biglaw offer. I do have observation about your post and situation though. You focus a lot on your interviewing and how you come off and whether you are giving the right answers. That's all well and good, but you are having a poor outcome at OCI because of your 1L grades. You are likely bottom third or quarter, which puts you squarely at risk for striking out at CLS and NYU. I guess what I am saying is that you have an easily-identifiable issue with your application and can move forward knowing what you have to fix (i.e., exams). There is no mystery here and no reason to fear that you messed up your interviews. Moving forward, bring your grades up, apply to clerkships, network hard, and keep your eyes open for opportunities.

[jhett]

I agree with the above poster - your 1L grades is the main factor sinking your chances. Note that the person(s) deciding whether you get a callback interview are not usually the ones that conduct the screener interviews. Those interviewers merely fill out an evaluation that goes to the hiring committee. So even if you knock it out of the park with the interviewer, the hiring committee won't necessarily know that and focus mainly on your grades.

Remember that OCI is the exception to normal job searching. Just because OCI isn't working out for you doesn't mean that you will be jobless. You just have to start job searching the old fashioned way - mass mailing, networking, working personal connections, looking at non-OCI employers, etc.

Lastly, breathe. It's so easy to doubt yourself, your abilities, and your life decisions at this point in law school because everyone around you is competing for the same jobs and having a prestige-pissing contest. Take a mental break (e.g., go exercise, hang out with non-LS friends, go on a day trip) to regroup yourself and get a better perspective.

[Anonymous User]

I go to a T6 in NYC and to my surprise, there has been a variety of outcomes from our summer interviewing program. I know people who have shitty grades, myself included, who are doing quite well. I also know people who have stellar grades who are not doing as well. You've only given us background on your grades, but haven't said much about any other factors that seem to resonate with firms. If you're a white male with below median grades, especially if you have no prior work experience or if your prior work experience wasn't particularly substantive, and you're not on LR, then you're going to have a hard time. That's been my takeaway. I'm not especially sold on the grades above all else mentality. But if you have nothing else to distinguish yourself from your peers except your grades, then obviously they matter a great deal.

I've also found that preparing a lot for interviews has not been particularly helpful. It's not like you go into a callback and they quiz you on the firm or your interviewers. I focused on high-level background of my interviewers (partner/associate, practice area, undergrad/law school), and generally some idea of how the summer program is structured (free market/assignment vs. rotation). This has generally worked for me. I think students sometimes focus too much on learning about the firm and their interviewer when they should instead be focused on looking introspectively at themselves, what drives them, why they're in law school, how they want to start their careers, what areas of law interest them, etc. Just speaking to my experience and hopefully there's something helpful there. Lastly, don't give up. You're clearly an intelligent and thoughtful person.

[Anonymous User]

I have about your same grades at a worse school in a worse market. No surprise that I've pretty much struck out. Yeah I'm bummed that I'll have to hustle a little bit more than half of my class - trust me, I feel your pain. But its building resilience and helping me reevaluate what I really want in my life. You're at a great school and I'm fairly certain that in 10 years you'll be happy and not living in a box.

The problem with being at an upper tier school is that you start to think that your career path should be the path that everyone else is taking. Then, when you see your friends getting jobs at massive firms, you think you're a loser. I was lucky to work in a great government job this summer where I truly learned a lot. Most importantly, my summer job taught me that I will enjoy being a lawyer. Honestly, I think some people have yet to come to this realization. But, if you know you want to practice law, it makes things easier. You can look for a job you know you will enjoy and thrive in. Yes, money is awesome. But it can only take you so far in life (I'm an older student and I've been in well paying jobs that suck). Furthermore,

The problem with these forums is that they often attract people who are at key, stressful periods in their lives (myself included). So you tend to get snippets of fear and loathing. But I'm sure, if you zoom out, you'll find that it works out in the long run. No matter what, you've accomplished a lot just getting into a T6 in NYC. Just go talk to your older alumni who likely don't frequent this forum. What are they doing? Are they all partners at biglaw? I don't know about your school but definitely not mine.

[glitched]

What practice areas are you expressing interest in? Even if the interviewer loves you, if that PA at that firm doesn't need anybody, you're not getting a callback/offer.

[Anonymous User]

I’m sorry you’re going through this, but I wouldn’t pit much stock in “bonding” with your interviewer. I’m sure you’re making a great connection with each, but you have to realize that 75% of the time, your interviewers are bonding with every applicant they meet. The interview process goes two ways: you are trying to sell yourself to the firm, but the firm is also trying to sell itself to you. So naturally, most firms — if they are serious about attracting top talent — are selecting interviewers who are going to bond with everyone. It’s a numbers game; they bond with far more applicants than they have spaces for. Don’t take it personally.

It reminds of my awkward teen years where I was convinced that every female in high school was flirting with me. I finally realized, oh wait, I’m an idiot. She’s just nice to everyone.

My advice would be to focus on markets/firms that are less grade-dependent. As previous posters have indicated, unfortunately, your experience is likely explained by 1L grades. Honestly, though, that should be easier to swallow. Exams are learnable, grades can be improved. It’d be much more disheartening if it were a personality issue. Don’t give up.

[Anonymous User]

I know exactly what you're going through. I'm bottom 30% at a T-7 school and haven't gotten one callback after 22 screeners (have yet to hear back from 11, the rest are dings).

I did plenty of mock interviews over the summer and always got good feedback. Also was employed by a consulting firm and had to go through a much harder interview process. So I don't think it's my interviewing at all.

I agree with the above poster who said it's grades. I thought my school name would carry me, but quickly realized that's not the case at all. Just seeing a 3.18 on your resume gives the screener a reason to reject you outright, and so you're just playing catch-up. You can't really play it safe because other candidates from your school with higher GPA's will beat you out. You also can't look desperate/overenthusiastic. So it's a very fine line and I'm still trying to figure out the best way to handle this in case I get some callbacks later on in the process.

I'm also a white male and not the greatest looking guy. Looks are huge as well. This is anecdotal but I have a friend who's extremely good looking with a similar GPA. Got a ton of callbacks and already has 2 offers.

There's not much more I could've done 1L--just took me a bit longer to figure things out. Being in this position absolutely sucks. I remember Aaron Rodgers waiting in the draft room and ESPN analysts saying how hard it is for him to be sitting there like that with all those teams passing on him. I couldn't help but think: C'mon, how can this guy be pissed? He'll be getting drafted and will soon make millions. But, when other people around you are all succeeding, getting a ton of callbacks and offers, and you're just sitting there with nothing, it's a terrible feeling. Friends and family are calling me up everyday asking me how things are going and whether I've heard back. During OCI, people were answering calls in the hallway and celebrating. And I have a friend who was upset because he didn't get a callback from White & Case when he has 7 callbacks from V-50 firms. I'm honestly happy for them. They worked extremely hard for all of that and deserve all the success. But sitting here with absolutely nothing really stings.

It's nice to know though that other, very qualified people are in the same position. I also have enough confidence in myself to know that even if I don't get BigLaw, I'll find a way to make it work.

Really hope it works out for all of us in the end. Like a previous poster mentioned, I heard that firms are being more conservative this year with their callbacks. So I'm hoping for movement later in the process.

[BeeTeeZ]

You haven't struck out until every firm affirmatively dinged you. Others may be getting callbacks and offers, many of whom will get multiple offers, but they can only accept one. See where I'm going with this.

Maybe you aren't in the first cut, but once the students with multiple offers pick a firm, those firms that weren't picked will be calling candidates like you: those they haven't dinged yet. Give it some time.

[Anonymous User]

I'm in a similar position as you, OP. T6, 3.25 GPA, on a secondary journal. Only bid on NYC firms within my grade range. 23 interviews, no callbacks, and 15 rejections.

I've been mass mailing for a few days, and I'm hoping something comes out of that. But it's hard not to despair.

[Npret]

I think the position you're in is hardly as bad as you might think it is. Striking out at OCI might mean that you end up somewhere that isn't biglaw (although this is not NECESSARILY the case if you continue to hustle) but so what? You're on a scholarship and will have less debt than most. You probably don't NEED to get a biglaw job to survive or even do well.

I'd be more concerned about the person who went to law school because they had this idea in their head that biglaw is the dream and that's what they're gunning for. My biggest news flash was realizing I did all of this for a job I don't want, don't like, and can't wait to get far far away from (BIGLAW!!!).

I know it sucks to feel like you did everything "right" and things are going well but you WILL get through it and when you do you'll probably laugh at just how bent out of shape you got over this. I probably sound like a jackass but I truly don't mean to. I was quite like you,the sun rose and set on my accomplishments and whatever my perception of success was at the time. Of course, in the law school setting, success is getting all the callbacks and all the offers but in the real world it probably doesn't matter all that much because more likely than not you won't want the jobs you're not getting once you actually have one (this is based on the fact that MOST people WANT to leave at some point and the only thing that keeps them in biglaw is the paycheck).

What are you talking about?
OP went to law school with the expectation of biglaw and has been working hard to get a job. OP understands how crucial this job is in making their career path easier, at least the first few years.

OP - find out what is wrong with your interviewing, it may not just be grades.
Don’t take it personally.
Keep working hard, it’s still not too late to find something.

[Anonymous User]

I think the position you're in is hardly as bad as you might think it is. Striking out at OCI might mean that you end up somewhere that isn't biglaw (although this is not NECESSARILY the case if you continue to hustle) but so what? You're on a scholarship and will have less debt than most. You probably don't NEED to get a biglaw job to survive or even do well.

I'd be more concerned about the person who went to law school because they had this idea in their head that biglaw is the dream and that's what they're gunning for. My biggest news flash was realizing I did all of this for a job I don't want, don't like, and can't wait to get far far away from (BIGLAW!!!).

I know it sucks to feel like you did everything "right" and things are going well but you WILL get through it and when you do you'll probably laugh at just how bent out of shape you got over this. I probably sound like a jackass but I truly don't mean to. I was quite like you,the sun rose and set on my accomplishments and whatever my perception of success was at the time. Of course, in the law school setting, success is getting all the callbacks and all the offers but in the real world it probably doesn't matter all that much because more likely than not you won't want the jobs you're not getting once you actually have one (this is based on the fact that MOST people WANT to leave at some point and the only thing that keeps them in biglaw is the paycheck).

What are you talking about?
OP went to law school with the expectation of biglaw and has been working hard to get a job. OP understands how crucial this job is in making their career path easier, at least the first few years.

OP - find out what is wrong with your interviewing, it may not just be grades.
Don’t take it personally.
Keep working hard, it’s still not too late to find something.

All I'm saying is that lots of people think they want biglaw when they quickly learn, after getting exactly what they "wanted," that they don't actually want that at all. So OP's "cautionary tale" to people who "want biglaw" is not all that helpful. The better cautionary tale would be don't go to law school if you THINK you want biglaw until you've actually taken some time to understand exactly what that entails.

[Anonymous User]

No advice, just commiserating in your pain. School had always been my "thing." Graduated with honors from an Ivy League, did a prestigious postgrad fellowship, and then accepted a significant scholarship at UT/GT/Vandy over higher ranked schools. First semester I finished in the bottom 20% of the class. I had worked my tail off and was just absolutely crushed. Second semester I managed to get my act together and finished right at the top 20% mark. Because of the way the credits were distributed I finished the year about .02 below median. Had 18 screeners and (it looks like) only 2 callbacks. I suppose I am lucky that my debt is minimal because of the scholarship and my family helping with COL, but I just feel crushed. Given that I had a strong educational background and had received a big scholarship, I never thought I would be in this position. I spoke with some contacts at some firms that have dinged me (mainly family friends and parents of friends) and almost universally they said they have a hard 50% cut off for my school and even though I had a significant improvement and interviewed well, there was no way to get around the cut off. Sometimes that is just the case. Sucks.

[UnfortunateResult]

OP here. Finished a good number of apps for the day and I'm taking a coffee break. Thanks to everyone who contributed to the thread and I empathize with those of you for whom this process is a shit sandwich at the end of very hard expensive year. I'm pulling for all of us, and while its of little present value, I think most of you will make great lawyers or other professionals.

In response to why I'm concerned about getting biglaw I'll say the following. I'm not worried about getting some legal job but I'm primarily want a biglaw job (or biglaw-esque job) because (1) I want to work on sophisticated legal matters and learn the craft of layering from the best in their field. In my brief experience, there are lots of excellent attorney's in biglaw and DOJ/other high level government work, but as you go town the totem pole attorney quality drops off, dramatically in some cases. The following example is just one instance but I think it's telling. I was in Federal District Court a few weeks ago with an attorney from a local law firm who was borderline incompetent. I think I could say that I, a 20 something that knows absolutely nothing about the practice of law and who really only knows how to read and look up shit on westlaw/lexis, could have written a better brief and done a better job in front of the judge than this local attorney with 12 years+ of private practice experience. When we passed around the oppositions brief the evening before our court hearing attorney's in our office genuinely thought it was drafted pro se before we told them that wasn't the case. For sure that's a particularly egregious example but it scares the shit out of me if I work with a practitioner who only knows 90% of what their doing. A medical student wouldn't want a residency with group of surgeons who know about 90% of the relevant medical techniques and information to do surgery would they? So why should training in the beginning of a lawyers career be any different?

For those of who said TLDR on the above, basically, I really need to learn how to be a good lawyer and I don't want to get stuck with some law firm full of hacks. I've seen lawyers in my own office who were trained well and those who aren't and the difference in the quality of their work product is night and day.

(2) I want to make a lot of money because I grew up lower middle class and I want want to leave that lifestyle. Furthermore, my parents worked very hard to give me what I needed growing up and now I'd like to help provide for them and my younger siblings. I've got more than just myself to worry about and money is really big deal for me when selecting a job. I don't need to make 190K annually per se but even with scholarship I'll still have 200K+ of debt and NYC cost of living is exorbitant so to ever pay down my debt and start saving for my own retirement, let alone providing for other's, I need a sizeable income. That's a big component of why I chose law and to attend a T6 in the first place. I mentioned my working class background in one screener and the partner I interviewed with didnt' seem to like it. Did not get a callback there and never mentioned it, nor money, finances or any other concerns for why people actually get up in the morning and go to work ever again, in any of my interviews. So don't think my lack of callbacks is related to that.

About Grades:

I'm not sure how much of my lack of success is due to grades. Grades are undoubtedly the most important qualification an applicant can have, but having spoken with career services and candidly asked them about grades I actually don't think mine are thatbad. Depending on the year and how professor chose to allot the distribution my grades are 2-3 percentage points within the 40th percentile. 40th percentile ain't great. But It's the middle and going to a T6 I would think gives you some credibility vis-a-vis your competence. I'm sure as hell not working at Boies but except for Cleary, Debevoise, and perhaps Weil every firm I applied to took the vast majority (80% or more) of it's summers with grades like mine. I'm talking about large-non grade selective firms like Milbank, Fried Frank, Sherman, Willkie, Schulte etc. I've been rejected from every single one of these firms and others like them. Reasoning tells me when X, Y, & Z gives approx. 40 offers 34 of which were to people with my grades from my school and I get rejected from all of them it's not my grades that are keeping me out. As a quick aside, students are prohibited from putting GPA's on their resumes at my school and employers just see a bunch of letters on a transcript they don't have a number and nobody broke out the calculator in my screeners (I doubt if you can know the difference on the top of your head between B,B,A-,B+,B+,B- and B,B+,B+,B+,B+,B,B+; the latter is actually a better GPA if all marks represent the same number of credits). For what's it worth I had an interviewer who was near top of our class 25+ years ago and on law review tell me while not fantastic, my grades are good. Sample size of 1 counts for nearly nothing but that interviewer's firm was typical of nearly all the firms I screened with.
For what's it worth I think TLS consistently over-inflates medians at some T14 schools. I've seen commentary for my school and I often see 3.3+ thrown around for median but considering that more than half of all grades have to be Bs and there are usually some B-s median has to be lowerthan a 3.3. I'm not exactly sure what it is and I'm sure the administration keeps it a closely guarded secret but it's very likely in the mid to low 3.2s I can't speak to other schools but I think TLSers overestimate the grades being received by the median student and the standard distribution of the curve.

I think getting better grades in 2L is my number one priority. Though I'm realistic that I'm working against a mediocre 1L GPA and while the curve is looser everyone benefits from that. And it's not like people who had a 3.7 are suddenly going to slack off, roll over, and die. I say all that to remind myself, and everyone else here that grades can't always be earned. There is some degree of luck in it (for example, my GPA would have been .08 higher if my better marks were given to me in my 4 credit hours classes instead of my 3 credit hour classes), and the math says that 70% of people have to graduate in the bottom 70% of their class. That's as true at Stanford as it is at Cooley. I think people often forget that. (Imagine all the Olympians out there who finished last or second to last in their event). They're still great athletes but nobody gives a shit about them--IMHO the feeling I'm having of attending a top law school and the atmospherics around it, is a lot like finishing at the back of the pack in the 500M, only difference is I had to pay my left nut to attend the race.

I do think waiting to hear back from where I haven't been dinged yet and being proactive while trying not to lose my mind or go hollow is good advice. I'll take that to heart. Otherwise, I'm gonna try and use my alumni contacts and keep an open mind. But I empathize with all of you who are smart, honest, hard working people, who are struggling right now. As a general statement, I'd bet most people in a T50 work harder than 70-80% of the general population and most of them can't catch a break. I feel for all of us.

One last comment, if you're a 0L and ever read this and decide to go to law school anyways let me impart one piece of advice in choosing a school. Location matters even for top schools. Any market that isn't NY or DC will rigorously question why you want to work in that market and many of them won't believe you if you honesty would tell them the truth because your pedigree signals to them that you'll probably end up working in NY or one of DC, or Chi anyways. Moreover, if you're between schools of roughly equal prestige on the top end of the totem pole, strongly consider choosing the school with fewer graduates in the class. Firms seem to care very much about school variety in their summer classes and it's much easier for them to chose you if there are fewer of your school's JDs to go around. I'm not sure to what degree this advantage is offset by firms allotting more slots for candidates of top ranked larger schools but my sense so far is that practice is mitigating at best. From what I've gathered, most employers prefer to say "we have summers from top ranked schools such as R,S,T, U, V" rather than say "we have summers from R and S which are two of the best schools in the country".

Stay Strong All

[UnfortunateResult]

OP here, again.

I just realized I didn't respond to a well made previous point. While I don't feel comfortable revealing my race or gender, I do have some work experience. I was a middle manager for a moderately successful regional company for 18 months. I did well in that job and could have been promoted and have excellent recommenders. It wasn't sexy and it wasn't glamorous and it wasn't prestigious but I enjoyed the experience and it gave me something to talk about in interviews. I had good work experience in college too. So all in all,I did have something besides just being a law student at Joe 6-pack T6 law school.
I also have a secondary journal and a few leadership positions within law school organizations. I think that counts for nothing but I have it.

[Anonymous User]

3.0 at a T14 and I feel I made a terrible gamble. I never imagined I would be near the bottom of the class and struggling to find employment. I've sent out my resume to over 400+ law offices and have only recieved 1 screener.

[Anonymous User]

No advice, just commiserating in your pain. School had always been my "thing." Graduated with honors from an Ivy League, did a prestigious postgrad fellowship, and then accepted a significant scholarship at UT/GT/Vandy over higher ranked schools. First semester I finished in the bottom 20% of the class. I had worked my tail off and was just absolutely crushed. Second semester I managed to get my act together and finished right at the top 20% mark. Because of the way the credits were distributed I finished the year about .02 below median. Had 18 screeners and (it looks like) only 2 callbacks. I suppose I am lucky that my debt is minimal because of the scholarship and my family helping with COL, but I just feel crushed. Given that I had a strong educational background and had received a big scholarship, I never thought I would be in this position. I spoke with some contacts at some firms that have dinged me (mainly family friends and parents of friends) and almost universally they said they have a hard 50% cut off for my school and even though I had a significant improvement and interviewed well, there was no way to get around the cut off. Sometimes that is just the case. Sucks.

Others may disagree, but given your situation it may be worth it to consider a JD/MBA, if your school allows it. Taking the extra year of grades and getting a second shot at OCI (if things don't work out this year, which they might). This is considering your minimal debt, connections, and significant improvement second semester.

[Anonymous User]

It might be a good idea to find out if your school’s career services can reach out to the firms to see exactly what went wrong. At mine, I heard of someone with great grades & interviews but then struck out because of a terrible social media presence and firms were actually checking. So it could be something completely unrelated to grades or your interviews.

[Anonymous User]

What would constitute terrible social media presence?

Just googled my name and for some reason my political affiliation (republican) comes up in one of the search results. I've always been apolitical at school and in the workplace, and it bothers me that this stuff is showing up. Would this be something you suggest I try and get rid of? Don't want people make any sort of decisions based on that, but with today's political climate you never know.

[Anonymous User]

OP, I was in a very similar situation a few years ago. T6 with a GPA of 3.19. The slight difference was that I managed to secure a decent number of callbacks (around 10 total), but for some reason, I couldn’t convert any of my callbacks into an offer. I was still offer-less at this point (mid-August), with my dings piling up. In fact, I was still offer-less during Labor Day Weekend - I clearly remember, because I had to go to a family friend’s BBQ, and I was so effing miserable the whole time. It seemed like everyone around me was snagging multiple offers. The number of callbacks I secured actually didn’t help because that meant I wasn’t a terrible interviewer, and I had no idea what I was doing wrong. I sent out hundreds of mass mail applications, which led to a couple interviews, but those too led to nowhere.

Just when I thought all hope was lost, I saw a posting here on TLS, saying that a firm was still looking. I quickly applied and was immediately invited for a callback. Long story short, I converted my last callback into an offer toward the end of September.

Some things to take away:

1. There is still time. I know it sucks to keep plugging away when you feel extremely discouraged, but try to keep your head up.

2. I knew a good number of my classmates who struck out (yes it happens at a T6), and a few years after graduation, they are all on their feet. Their jobs range from big Law to government to compliance. I know more than one person who did not summer at a big law firm but ended up with full time offers their 3L year. No one I know is living on the street or is still unemployed. They are practicing lawyers at respectable jobs.

3. This process involves a lot of luck, even for someone from a top law school. Being on the other side of big Law recruiting now, I see how so many of these hiring decisions can be pretty random. That probably doesn’t help to hear but please please please don’t make this process feel like you are objectively unqualified for anything. I also hate how grades can be such a determining factor, especially when I’ve witnessed firsthand how they have little bearing on how competent you are as an associate, but unfortunately in an imperfect system, they serve as one of the few determining factors.

Good luck OP and vent here if necessary.

[Anonymous User]

To OP’s comment about taking down their republican affiliation—yes, take it down. You know what the deal is...being “enlightened” is a plus and a republican doesn’t fit that mold. The silent majority stays silent and is real for a reason.

[nixy]

There are plenty of Republican lawyers, though.

[Bubbles1012]

OP keep at it. It only takes one offer.

My story- I went to a T1 school that is not highly ranked (think on the edge of tier 1). I chose the school because it was in my home market and offered me a full ride, turning down much higher ranked schools, some in the T14. I thought I would have no problem finishing top of the class 1L year given my admission stats and LSAT scores but finished barely in the top quarter after 1L year. Most firms at a screener cut off at my GPA (all preselected school), so I got a lot of screeners and very few callbacks. I eventually got an offer from a government honors program and was going to accept, but at the last minute (end of October) a firm I networked with called me up, invited me to interview and I then got a call back and offer. It was my only big law offer. I took it, and then ended up getting cold offered at the end of the summer (found out this was the modus operandi for the firm later, to hire two summers and usually cold offer one).

I was devastated and hit the drawing board again, hustling my tail off. I ended up getting an offer the following November from a higher ranked big law firm in my home market through mass mailing. Additionally, the old firm was below market in a high COL area while this was a firm that paid at the top of the market in my hometown (came out to more money after COL adjustment). I don’t think I would have gotten the offer without my big law summer, and I’m better off at the new firm, although I despaired when it looked like I had struck out at OCI and then again when I got cold offered.

Something will click for you eventually, just keep your chin up.

[QContinuum]

There are plenty of Republican lawyers, though.

Right. If the only hint of politics is OP's party affiliation, I can't imagine that's been hurting him. (Obviously it'd be different if, say, his FB listed a "who's who" of political groups/causes - firms generally shy away from hiring people with very strong opinions on either side of the spectrum.)