I hate litigation. What now?

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I hate litigation. What now?

Postby Anonymous User » Fri Jul 13, 2018 7:09 pm

Midlevel at a reputable firm, HYS grad, and I have decided that I hate litigation. Okay, maybe I don't HATE it but I greatly dislike it and can't imagine doing it for the rest of my life. What do I do from here? How do I go about landing a non-litigation job? Help!

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Re: I hate litigation. What now?

Postby Anonymous User » Fri Jul 13, 2018 7:28 pm

You won’t. Just deal with it. Or find a new career path.

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Re: I hate litigation. What now?

Postby Anonymous User » Fri Jul 13, 2018 9:20 pm

It's not that hard to change path. As long as you do good work for the partners you work for, even if litigation, you can ask ask them about helping you transition to corporate side of things and offer to start as a first year again. If you do ok work, but your firm operates on a free market system, you can email or approach partners in the corporate department that you feel comfortable with/went to your alma mator, and ask if you can work for them as a first-year. Last scenario - if you do bad work, you can try to lateral to a small boutique that does both litigation and corporate work, because small boutiques like that will need manpower in both inevitably. There was an associate at my big law firm who left for an entertainment law boutique that did both litigation and transactional work, became a transactional lawyer at that firm, and when that firm crashed, came back to our firm, but this time as a transactional attorney. She then went in-house. Keep in mind that recruiters will likely be useless if you tell them up front that you'll be happy to work as a junior because firms don't need first/second years and so they are probably not going to tell the firms about your offer. Your best bet would be emailing those smaller firms directly and express your interest.

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Re: I hate litigation. What now?

Postby Anonymous User » Fri Jul 13, 2018 11:06 pm

Anonymous User wrote:It's not that hard to change path. As long as you do good work for the partners you work for, even if litigation, you can ask ask them about helping you transition to corporate side of things and offer to start as a first year again. If you do ok work, but your firm operates on a free market system, you can email or approach partners in the corporate department that you feel comfortable with/went to your alma mator, and ask if you can work for them as a first-year. Last scenario - if you do bad work, you can try to lateral to a small boutique that does both litigation and corporate work, because small boutiques like that will need manpower in both inevitably. There was an associate at my big law firm who left for an entertainment law boutique that did both litigation and transactional work, became a transactional lawyer at that firm, and when that firm crashed, came back to our firm, but this time as a transactional attorney. She then went in-house. Keep in mind that recruiters will likely be useless if you tell them up front that you'll be happy to work as a junior because firms don't need first/second years and so they are probably not going to tell the firms about your offer. Your best bet would be emailing those smaller firms directly and express your interest.


With the way my firm works it’s not really a viable option to switch to corporate. I asked when I was more junior and was told that I would be behind my peers and, therefore, couldn’t make the switch. And I’d venture to say my reputation was better then than it is now. You’re stuck in your department once you commit and literally no one switches.

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Re: I hate litigation. What now?

Postby Anonymous User » Sat Jul 14, 2018 12:38 am

Be careful not to display your dissatisfaction or you could get fired.

coramnonjudice

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Re: I hate litigation. What now?

Postby coramnonjudice » Mon Jul 16, 2018 9:04 am

Look into going big fed.

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Re: I hate litigation. What now?

Postby Anonymous User » Mon Jul 16, 2018 10:22 am

coramnonjudice wrote:Look into going big fed.

Those are usually litigation jobs though.

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Re: I hate litigation. What now?

Postby Anonymous User » Mon Jul 16, 2018 10:52 am

Anonymous User wrote:
coramnonjudice wrote:Look into going big fed.

Those are usually litigation jobs though.


Probably easier to transition to something like a regulatory/admin law role from litigation, which there is plenty of in bigfed, than to transition to being a corporate lawyer.

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Re: I hate litigation. What now?

Postby tyroneslothrop1 » Mon Jul 16, 2018 2:49 pm

Go to a mid-sized or small firm. Explain that you do not want litigate. Many firms will jump at the opportunity to have someone as well-credentialed as you, even if they have to train you to be a corporate lawyer. I certainly think this route is feasible tho you will have take an enormous pay cut.

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trebekismyhero

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Re: I hate litigation. What now?

Postby trebekismyhero » Mon Jul 16, 2018 4:41 pm

Another option is trying to go in-house to a place that has a large legal department. I know litigators who went in-house at Fortune 500 companies and within a year were doing mostly corporate work because that is they need more of.

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Re: I hate litigation. What now?

Postby Anonymous User » Sun Jul 22, 2018 10:09 pm

trebekismyhero wrote:Another option is trying to go in-house to a place that has a large legal department. I know litigators who went in-house at Fortune 500 companies and within a year were doing mostly corporate work because that is they need more of.


This is such a good idea. I think I’ll start just searching job postings of huge companies.

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Re: I hate litigation. What now?

Postby MaxMcMann » Mon Jul 23, 2018 10:08 am

Anonymous User wrote:
trebekismyhero wrote:Another option is trying to go in-house to a place that has a large legal department. I know litigators who went in-house at Fortune 500 companies and within a year were doing mostly corporate work because that is they need more of.


This is such a good idea. I think I’ll start just searching job postings of huge companies.

If you don't mind me asking, why do you hate litigation? Do you think you would be happier doing corporate work?

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Re: I hate litigation. What now?

Postby Anonymous User » Mon Jul 23, 2018 10:56 am

MaxMcMann wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:
trebekismyhero wrote:Another option is trying to go in-house to a place that has a large legal department. I know litigators who went in-house at Fortune 500 companies and within a year were doing mostly corporate work because that is they need more of.


This is such a good idea. I think I’ll start just searching job postings of huge companies.

If you don't mind me asking, why do you hate litigation? Do you think you would be happier doing corporate work?


Probably not, given how many corporate associates hate their jobs, including me. Grass is always greener. Me and my classmates all wish we switched to litigation for the better life style.

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Re: I hate litigation. What now?

Postby Anonymous User » Mon Jul 23, 2018 11:06 am

MaxMcMann wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:
trebekismyhero wrote:Another option is trying to go in-house to a place that has a large legal department. I know litigators who went in-house at Fortune 500 companies and within a year were doing mostly corporate work because that is they need more of.


This is such a good idea. I think I’ll start just searching job postings of huge companies.

If you don't mind me asking, why do you hate litigation? Do you think you would be happier doing corporate work?

I hate making nonsensical arguments that done higher-up demands of me. I also get writing anxiety and it’s just extremely stressful for me. I’m not bad at it but it causes me tremendous anxiety every time I have to write a brief. I feel like litigation is “harder” and I know I’ll probably get reamed for saying that. When you couple the panic with the lack of in-house opportunities, I just feel like it was a bad decision. I also didn’t clerk and I feel like that was a mistake because I think the writing anxiety would likely be less severe if I had.

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Re: I hate litigation. What now?

Postby Anonymous User » Mon Jul 23, 2018 11:07 am

Anonymous User wrote:
MaxMcMann wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:
trebekismyhero wrote:Another option is trying to go in-house to a place that has a large legal department. I know litigators who went in-house at Fortune 500 companies and within a year were doing mostly corporate work because that is they need more of.


This is such a good idea. I think I’ll start just searching job postings of huge companies.

If you don't mind me asking, why do you hate litigation? Do you think you would be happier doing corporate work?


Probably not, given how many corporate associates hate their jobs, including me. Grass is always greener. Me and my classmates all wish we switched to litigation for the better life style.


What do you hate about corporate?

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Re: I hate litigation. What now?

Postby Anonymous User » Mon Jul 23, 2018 4:18 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:
MaxMcMann wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:
trebekismyhero wrote:Another option is trying to go in-house to a place that has a large legal department. I know litigators who went in-house at Fortune 500 companies and within a year were doing mostly corporate work because that is they need more of.


This is such a good idea. I think I’ll start just searching job postings of huge companies.

If you don't mind me asking, why do you hate litigation? Do you think you would be happier doing corporate work?


Probably not, given how many corporate associates hate their jobs, including me. Grass is always greener. Me and my classmates all wish we switched to litigation for the better life style.


What do you hate about corporate?


Everything? Have you ever had to sign a contract? Or accept some sort of "terms of service" on a website or product? Did you actually read it? Of course you didn't, who would? They're awful. Well, want to write them instead!? That's corporate. But, not only is the substance mind-numbing, you also have to churn out a bunch of them at the same time, all with insane (and unnecessary) deadlines to meet. Sounds fun and interesting, right?

I sometimes wonder if all us corporate lawyers are just lying to ourselves or if there are actually some psychos out there who enjoy this job. I wish I tried harder in law school so maybe I could have had a shot at doing some interesting litigation work with my life.

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Re: I hate litigation. What now?

Postby Anonymous User » Mon Jul 23, 2018 4:45 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:
MaxMcMann wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:
trebekismyhero wrote:Another option is trying to go in-house to a place that has a large legal department. I know litigators who went in-house at Fortune 500 companies and within a year were doing mostly corporate work because that is they need more of.


This is such a good idea. I think I’ll start just searching job postings of huge companies.

If you don't mind me asking, why do you hate litigation? Do you think you would be happier doing corporate work?


Probably not, given how many corporate associates hate their jobs, including me. Grass is always greener. Me and my classmates all wish we switched to litigation for the better life style.


What do you hate about corporate?


Everything? Have you ever had to sign a contract? Or accept some sort of "terms of service" on a website or product? Did you actually read it? Of course you didn't, who would? They're awful. Well, want to write them instead!? That's corporate. But, not only is the substance mind-numbing, you also have to churn out a bunch of them at the same time, all with insane (and unnecessary) deadlines to meet. Sounds fun and interesting, right?

I sometimes wonder if all us corporate lawyers are just lying to ourselves or if there are actually some psychos out there who enjoy this job. I wish I tried harder in law school so maybe I could have had a shot at doing some interesting litigation work with my life.


That does sound pretty awful. I’m sorry. :-/

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Re: I hate litigation. What now?

Postby johndhi » Tue Jul 24, 2018 5:11 pm

I recommend:
-looking into corporate/transactional law and seeing if that interests you. if it does, talk to a recruiter; they are often able to get you a job as a corporate attorney if you drop down a class-level in salary. often you can bargain your way back to your original class year if you do a good job for a while. I have several friends who made this switch from lit to corporate in their 2nd, 3rd, and 4th years.

-look at in-house jobs that like to hire litigators for non-litigation roles. these include: product counsel in the bay area, compliance counsel anywhere, regulatory counsel anywhere, employment counsel if you have employment experience, or many hybrid roles, particularly if the company is dealing with a difficult litigation and they'd like you to work on that part time.

-take a short vacation and/or talking to a mentor of yours at the firm if you have one. expressing yourself will be helpful. I'd add that the firm is probably willing to provide you with a training course on writing if you express this anxiety to them -- assuming it's a reasonable firm, you'd be surprised how much they'll offer.

-if you still want to clerk, look at clerkship opportunities now. it isn't too late.

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Re: I hate litigation. What now?

Postby Anonymous User » Tue Jul 24, 2018 7:11 pm

johndhi wrote:I recommend:
-looking into corporate/transactional law and seeing if that interests you. if it does, talk to a recruiter; they are often able to get you a job as a corporate attorney if you drop down a class-level in salary. often you can bargain your way back to your original class year if you do a good job for a while. I have several friends who made this switch from lit to corporate in their 2nd, 3rd, and 4th years.

-look at in-house jobs that like to hire litigators for non-litigation roles. these include: product counsel in the bay area, compliance counsel anywhere, regulatory counsel anywhere, employment counsel if you have employment experience, or many hybrid roles, particularly if the company is dealing with a difficult litigation and they'd like you to work on that part time.

-take a short vacation and/or talking to a mentor of yours at the firm if you have one. expressing yourself will be helpful. I'd add that the firm is probably willing to provide you with a training course on writing if you express this anxiety to them -- assuming it's a reasonable firm, you'd be surprised how much they'll offer.

-if you still want to clerk, look at clerkship opportunities now. it isn't too late.


Thank you!! I’m not a bad writer; it’s just always been anxiety inducing for me. I even tutored writing as an undergrad and even then writing gave me anxiety. I’m going to try the in-house route and see if I can find anything,

Bla Bla Bla Blah

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Re: I hate litigation. What now?

Postby Bla Bla Bla Blah » Wed Jul 25, 2018 5:40 am

Anonymous User wrote:
johndhi wrote:I recommend:
-looking into corporate/transactional law and seeing if that interests you. if it does, talk to a recruiter; they are often able to get you a job as a corporate attorney if you drop down a class-level in salary. often you can bargain your way back to your original class year if you do a good job for a while. I have several friends who made this switch from lit to corporate in their 2nd, 3rd, and 4th years.

-look at in-house jobs that like to hire litigators for non-litigation roles. these include: product counsel in the bay area, compliance counsel anywhere, regulatory counsel anywhere, employment counsel if you have employment experience, or many hybrid roles, particularly if the company is dealing with a difficult litigation and they'd like you to work on that part time.

-take a short vacation and/or talking to a mentor of yours at the firm if you have one. expressing yourself will be helpful. I'd add that the firm is probably willing to provide you with a training course on writing if you express this anxiety to them -- assuming it's a reasonable firm, you'd be surprised how much they'll offer.

-if you still want to clerk, look at clerkship opportunities now. it isn't too late.



Thank you!! I’m not a bad writer; it’s just always been anxiety inducing for me. I even tutored writing as an undergrad and even then writing gave me anxiety. I’m going to try the in-house route and see if I can find anything,


I feel the same way. But what the corporate lawyer said is probably correct. At least the BS arguments I have to write are somewhat interesting and/or creative--even with all the anxiety I have to get over to step out on a limb, with some of my arguments, write them, and hope that I nailed it. Writing contracts sounds worse than writing discovery requests, and those are pretty mind numbing too.

In house is always what gets mentioned as the pot at the end of the rainbow, but is it really? I would also really like to know. Asking for a friend :)

sunyplatt

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Re: I hate litigation. What now?

Postby sunyplatt » Wed Jul 25, 2018 9:25 am

Set up your own boutique shop focusing in an area of law you like. Find an area with a legal shortage such as a smaller community (This will take some research). You could probably accomplish this and setup shop within an hour of a major city though if you do need to be close to urban life/amenities.



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