Does location of USAO externship matter? Forum

[Anonymous User]

Hi all,

First off, I hope you all will be nice, as some of us are mere mortals within the legal world and don't have the infinite knowledge that the typical TLS user has (although my confidence is up from my first Fortnite win last night).

I have two externship offers this coming Fall: one from the USAO in NDCA and one from the USAO in Colorado. Both are in the criminal division and both will offer the same hours. I obviously want to make the best decision for my future, so here are my questions:

1) Are different offices perceived differently by employers? (employers = firms, government agencies, private companies, etc.)
2) what is important to look for as a student in an externship with a USAO?
3) If you have worked for/externed for either of these offices, can you speak to the work that goes on there, how they treat externs, culture, etc?
4) If you have been to either of these cities, I would love your opinion on them as well. I've never been to either.
5) If you think NDCA looks better on a resume (for whatever reason that you may have), does that justify picking NDCA and overcoming all the hurdles that come with that decision (cost of living being the biggest hurdle in my mind)?
6) For people who know securities law: is it as important to do these externships where you want to practice?

Here is some info that I think may be helpful in you formulating some advice:
- I don't care where I end up after law school or where I take the bar. I'll go where I can get the best job and get the best experience.
- I have experience in the securities world, and both USAOs have said that I'll get to work on securities-related cases. I want to work in the securities industry after law school.
- I am a rising 3L at a T2 school. Well-respected in California and in the northwest. I'm top 1/2 of my class, on law review, and have two great summer gigs under my belt in the securities industry.
- I am still a law student that will graduate May 2019. My university gives 3Ls academic credit for "experiential learning" opportunities, AKA externships, clerkships, etc.
- I am court certified.
- My tuition is pretty cheap, so I can semi-afford to do this type of thing without hurting the bank too much. I can make either city work financially, though obviously San Fran will stretch me much thinner.
- I am married but don't have kids yet, so factor my spouse into your equation.

[Anonymous User]

I interned at the USAO in Denver and it was good, the people were nice and did their best to give you interesting things to do. I can’t compare it to NDCA though.

But really I think you need to start thinking seriously about what you plan to do after graduation if you’re a rising 3L. When you say work in the securities industry, what do you mean and where do you want to do that? How are you going to be applying and when will you decide where to take the bar?

I ask because deciding which of these internships is “better” requires deciding what they’re better *for.* I’m inclined to say that being in NDCA is going to be more helpful for finding a job, but that will largely be for jobs in Northern California. If you wanted to work in Denver, Colorado would be better. Except I don’t think there’s a lot of securities work in Denver, so that wouldn’t be such a good move based on your chosen field of work.

So it’s hard to give you much feedback at this point, I’m afraid.

[Anonymous User]

OP here, thanks for the reply. Ideally I want to work for a governmental agency that is in the financial sector somehow. I like agencies that deal with regulatory and compliance matters like the OCC or the CFTC. I have worked for the SEC as an extern, and would like to work there as well, though I know these are all challenging to get. If I can't manage that then I would like to do a clerkship or at last resort work for a firm. Ultimately I dream of being a prosecutor working on white-collar fraud cases.

When I say "better" I mean better for finding the best possible employment post-law school within the parameters I set above. It doesn't matter where it is geographically. I know that lots of securities work is located in the big cities, particularly on the east coast, but there is a decent amount on the west coast as well.

[Anonymous User]

Barring input from others with specific knowledge about either office (like one is notoriously good/awful to intern in), there isn’t really going to be a significant difference.

I kinda feel like you need to be working on applications NOW though. You’re probably too late for a clerkship post grad, and you should start mailing firms or you are likely to miss that as well. There are so few entry level government jobs that you cannot count on getting one of those - I’ve never seen entry level positions for the CFTC for instance and I’ve heard the SEC isn’t hiring.

[Anonymous User]

I would do NDCA solely because it will make interviewing in the San Francisco Bay Area -- a large-ish legal market, easier -- you'll be available to interview in person on short notice and point to your internship as a evidence of your desire to live there post-graduation. In terms of "prestige," I guess NDCA is better, but it doesn't really matter: you're just an extern.

As others have said, absolute #1 priority is securing a full-time job offer. Not to freak you out, but were I in your shoes, I would be panicking. Many law firms primarily fill their classes with their 2L summer associates. Start mailing, and good luck.

[Emersonman]

Matters big time, IMO. Pick the one that will get you the most networking opportunities.

[OneShot2009]

Have you looked to see if either district gets white collar cases? I'm going into securities lit post-grad, and externed at a USAO. The district I was working in did not really get securities/white collar cases. Their caseload was predominantly drugs and child pornography.

You can try looking at the federal criminal cases in the district on Lexis or WestLaw and see what comes up. Even if neither does its incredibly valuable, but if one gets a ton more white collar cases and thats what you want to do it might help you decide.

[RasheedJello]

Have you looked to see if either district gets white collar cases? I'm going into securities lit post-grad, and externed at a USAO. The district I was working in did not really get securities/white collar cases. Their caseload was predominantly drugs and child pornography.

You can try looking at the federal criminal cases in the district on Lexis or WestLaw and see what comes up. Even if neither does its incredibly valuable, but if one gets a ton more white collar cases and thats what you want to do it might help you decide.

Hey OneShot, do you mind if I PM you? I also want to do securities lit post-law school and am curious about your path.

[Anonymous User]

Yeah, prestige won't really matter. It's all about the experiences you'll get at your externship, which really varies by office.

[OneShot2009]

Have you looked to see if either district gets white collar cases? I'm going into securities lit post-grad, and externed at a USAO. The district I was working in did not really get securities/white collar cases. Their caseload was predominantly drugs and child pornography.

You can try looking at the federal criminal cases in the district on Lexis or WestLaw and see what comes up. Even if neither does its incredibly valuable, but if one gets a ton more white collar cases and thats what you want to do it might help you decide.

Hey OneShot, do you mind if I PM you? I also want to do securities lit post-law school and am curious about your path.

Sure, go for it.

[Wild Card]

Yeah, prestige won't really matter. It's all about the experiences you'll get at your externship, which really varies by office.

Well, EDNY and EDVA are both extremely prestigious and both give you lots of fun stuff to do.

SDNY is supremely prestigious but just sucks.

[RasheedJello]

Have you looked to see if either district gets white collar cases? I'm going into securities lit post-grad, and externed at a USAO. The district I was working in did not really get securities/white collar cases. Their caseload was predominantly drugs and child pornography.

You can try looking at the federal criminal cases in the district on Lexis or WestLaw and see what comes up. Even if neither does its incredibly valuable, but if one gets a ton more white collar cases and thats what you want to do it might help you decide.

Hey OneShot, do you mind if I PM you? I also want to do securities lit post-law school and am curious about your path.

Sure, go for it.

OneShot, I am unable to PM you. Any way that you could enable messaging?

[carsondalywashere]

Yeah, prestige won't really matter. It's all about the experiences you'll get at your externship, which really varies by office.

Well, EDNY and EDVA are both extremely prestigious and both give you lots of fun stuff to do.

SDNY is supremely prestigious but just sucks.

Out of curiosity, why does SDNY suck?

[Anonymous User]

Not Wild Card, but I’ve heard it’s super busy and interns don’t get a lot of attention/interesting work. But I have no idea if that’s accurate now.

[Anonymous User]

I'm interning at one of these "prestigious" USAOs. It's like cool and fine, but I don't think it's gonna give me a "bump" OCI vs any other summer job, outside of the whole XYZ Partner Was an AUSA and Reminisces Fondly About It During Interview, which is true of any USAO. Examples: 2L SA friend summering at [elite lit boutique] who worked for a random federal judge in a flyover state, GF did habeas petitions (not sexy) at Main Justice and is going to [another elite lit boutique]. Got friends who had 1L shitty grades in SEC Summer Honors Program ...

Like, it seriously does not matter where you summer. No one cares. Grades and school (sorry) matter infinitely more. You just need *a job*.