Bad partners to work for at each biglaw firm

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Bad partners to work for at each biglaw firm

Postby Anonymous User » Fri Jun 22, 2018 8:35 am

Today I got an email from HR asking for feedback on the work of a summer associate. I have worked with other summer associates bt have not received similar requests, so I was a little puzzled. Then I look down the list of people he has worked with and saw the name of this junior partner who is horrible to work with and known for giving associates bad reviews and firing them, then I realized that this partner probably instigated this whole thing and HR is basically hoping for negative feedbacks they can gather from us as grounds for no offering him.

Obviously, I’m not going to out this partner. But is there some sort of upwards review website, similar to rateyourprofessor.com for biglaw? If not, someone will make a lot of money making something like this I’m sure. It occurred to me that there are horrible people to work for at every law firm, so instead of assessing the firm it’s really the partner that should get called out. But there is no anonymous website solely for this purpose.

I just feel really bad for this dude. He did good work but had the bad luck of working for this partner and will probably get no offered this summer. I’ve worked with this partner before and never have I ever seen a draft come back worse than the first draft, so I don’t understand how he became a partner in the first place. In any case, I sure hope there is such a thing as karma and that he gets what he deserves.

MOD EDIT: Site marketing removed

Let the ratings begin...
Last edited by Anonymous User on Sat Jun 23, 2018 11:03 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Bad partners to work for at each biglaw firm

Postby Anonymous User » Fri Jun 22, 2018 8:42 am

Anonymous User wrote:then I realized that this partner probably instigated this whole thing and HR is basically hoping for negative feedbacks they can gather from us as grounds for no offering him.


It's probably the opposite. Firms don't want to no offer people; they're probably looking for positive reviews to justify giving him an offer. If you think he deserves it, you should give him a positive review.

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Re: Bad partners to work for at each biglaw firm

Postby Anonymous User » Fri Jun 22, 2018 11:19 am

Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:then I realized that this partner probably instigated this whole thing and HR is basically hoping for negative feedbacks they can gather from us as grounds for no offering him.


It's probably the opposite. Firms don't want to no offer people; they're probably looking for positive reviews to justify giving him an offer. If you think he deserves it, you should give him a positive review.


That’s really naive. The normal route for summer associate evaluations is through a special firm-wide evaluation flatform and such requests are generated for every summer. When HR emails us about a specific summer without using this system, and does not do so for all summer associates, it is only because HR is looking for negative reviews. Of course I would not give him a negative review, but my review won’t matter as long as this partner dislikes him. HR is not going to say that it’s looking for bad reviews specifically for liability reasons.

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LaLiLuLeLo

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Re: Bad partners to work for at each biglaw firm

Postby LaLiLuLeLo » Fri Jun 22, 2018 11:37 am

Unfortunately, if bad partners are making that cheddar, then nothing really happens to them (absent sexual harassment or something. And even then...). I’ve seen partners that are so awful their associates have 100% turnover in a 12 month period. Doesn’t matter, though.

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Re: Bad partners to work for at each biglaw firm

Postby Anonymous User » Fri Jun 22, 2018 11:42 am

I think you should at least the the summer know what happened, and maybe then he can try to get in front of it by talking to other powerful partners that like him and might be willing to advocate for him?

At a bare minimum, give the guy this courtesy so he can make sure he's registered for 3L OCI and can start mass mailing now to be safe.

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Re: Bad partners to work for at each biglaw firm

Postby malibustacy » Fri Jun 22, 2018 5:54 pm

Anonymous User wrote:I think you should at least the the summer know what happened, and maybe then he can try to get in front of it by talking to other powerful partners that like him and might be willing to advocate for him?

At a bare minimum, give the guy this courtesy so he can make sure he's registered for 3L OCI and can start mass mailing now to be safe.


Absolutely fucking not. Can you imagine the personal liability and shitstorm OP will come under if that summer raises a stink and starts whining? Threatens to sue? Tells HR, partners and stuff that "Associate X" told me this and this about how he's going to get no offered?

Frankly its not OP's problem. Shit happens, and the world sucks. If the firm is so TTT that they no offer summers, especially knowing that the partner is a total dick who has written unreasonably bad reviews of many people he's worked with in the past, then that firm is retarded.

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Re: Bad partners to work for at each biglaw firm

Postby worklifewhat » Fri Jun 22, 2018 6:11 pm

malibustacy wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:I think you should at least the the summer know what happened, and maybe then he can try to get in front of it by talking to other powerful partners that like him and might be willing to advocate for him?

At a bare minimum, give the guy this courtesy so he can make sure he's registered for 3L OCI and can start mass mailing now to be safe.


Absolutely fucking not. Can you imagine the personal liability and shitstorm OP will come under if that summer raises a stink and starts whining? Threatens to sue? Tells HR, partners and stuff that "Associate X" told me this and this about how he's going to get no offered?

Frankly its not OP's problem. Shit happens, and the world sucks. If the firm is so TTT that they no offer summers, especially knowing that the partner is a total dick who has written unreasonably bad reviews of many people he's worked with in the past, then that firm is retarded.


It's probably a blessing in disguise to get no-offered at a place that would do that anyway. I would just write an accurate review and let whatever happens happen.

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Re: Bad partners to work for at each biglaw firm

Postby Anonymous User » Fri Jun 22, 2018 6:17 pm

HR and the assigning partners screwed up here- they never should have assigned a summer to work for this person.

Just leave the summer a stellar review. IME with these types of situations the review of the terrible partner is treated with a huge grain of salt by the professional development folks unless it is corroborated by reviews from other people. That was my experience with a horrible partner, anyway.

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Re: Bad partners to work for at each biglaw firm

Postby Wild Card » Fri Jun 22, 2018 7:48 pm

Incidentally, what's the best way to find out who the terrible partners are? Asking current or former associates?

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Re: Bad partners to work for at each biglaw firm

Postby Dahl » Fri Jun 22, 2018 8:35 pm

I would have loved a review site for partners when I was at a firm but there would have been no way to give details of why they were awful without outing yourself.

OP just give a positive review and hope for the best for the kid.

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Re: Bad partners to work for at each biglaw firm

Postby RaceJudicata » Fri Jun 22, 2018 9:17 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:then I realized that this partner probably instigated this whole thing and HR is basically hoping for negative feedbacks they can gather from us as grounds for no offering him.


It's probably the opposite. Firms don't want to no offer people; they're probably looking for positive reviews to justify giving him an offer. If you think he deserves it, you should give him a positive review.


That’s really naive. The normal route for summer associate evaluations is through a special firm-wide evaluation flatform and such requests are generated for every summer. When HR emails us about a specific summer without using this system, and does not do so for all summer associates, it is only because HR is looking for negative reviews. Of course I would not give him a negative review, but my review won’t matter as long as this partner dislikes him. HR is not going to say that it’s looking for bad reviews specifically for liability reasons.



Why is that "really naive"? All firms have different Summer Associate review protocols. For instance, at my firm, the partner is supposed to review the SA's work. However, if the summer doesn't have much interaction with the partner and the associate is the one actually handling the assignment, then the HR folks send that associate a separate request to provide a review. Not necessarily looking for "good" review or "bad" review -- just a review from someone that worked closely with the SA.

How it works (at my firm, and in my office - no clue what other offices do) is they send the review to partner X and s/he says "I didn't really work closely with the SA on this assignment; please reach out to associate Y to provide a review."

Of course, your firm's system may be different -- but its certainly not "naive" to make the point above. I digress.

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Re: Bad partners to work for at each biglaw firm

Postby Omerta » Fri Jun 22, 2018 10:00 pm

Firms are not that stupid about this (at least mine isn’t). There’s one partner who is a pain to work with and always gives terrible reviews. The other partners just disregard the bad review because it has no bearing on whether the person is actually good. Same way the other direction. There’s one guy who will basically say that any summer or associate is clearly partnership material. His review doesn’t mean anything either.

If that’s not how your review system works, it could be that not many partners responded and they want to have more substantive feedback.

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Re: Bad partners to work for at each biglaw firm

Postby worklifewhat » Fri Jun 22, 2018 10:56 pm

Wild Card wrote:Incidentally, what's the best way to find out who the terrible partners are? Asking current or former associates?


Make friends with someone who’s a bit senior to you and will give you the inside scoop.

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Re: Bad partners to work for at each biglaw firm

Postby oblig.lawl.ref » Sat Jun 23, 2018 12:56 am

RaceJudicata wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:then I realized that this partner probably instigated this whole thing and HR is basically hoping for negative feedbacks they can gather from us as grounds for no offering him.


It's probably the opposite. Firms don't want to no offer people; they're probably looking for positive reviews to justify giving him an offer. If you think he deserves it, you should give him a positive review.


That’s really naive. The normal route for summer associate evaluations is through a special firm-wide evaluation flatform and such requests are generated for every summer. When HR emails us about a specific summer without using this system, and does not do so for all summer associates, it is only because HR is looking for negative reviews. Of course I would not give him a negative review, but my review won’t matter as long as this partner dislikes him. HR is not going to say that it’s looking for bad reviews specifically for liability reasons.



Why is that "really naive"? All firms have different Summer Associate review protocols. For instance, at my firm, the partner is supposed to review the SA's work. However, if the summer doesn't have much interaction with the partner and the associate is the one actually handling the assignment, then the HR folks send that associate a separate request to provide a review. Not necessarily looking for "good" review or "bad" review -- just a review from someone that worked closely with the SA.

How it works (at my firm, and in my office - no clue what other offices do) is they send the review to partner X and s/he says "I didn't really work closely with the SA on this assignment; please reach out to associate Y to provide a review."

Of course, your firm's system may be different -- but its certainly not "naive" to make the point above. I digress.


Yeah pretty aggressive IMO to say that's "really naive." At my firm, at least, HR (and similar professional development people) absolutely get second opinions if there's an isolated bad review. Starting to seem like your firm may just be a hellhole. Does it give market shattering bonuses by any chance? Or set the market for prorated summer bonuses, perhaps?

Your whole sordid story is starting to leave a bad taste in my mouth. I must go now.

(But you should try to give that SA a good review and not tell them and hope that bails them out. Getting no offered is no bueno.)

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Re: Bad partners to work for at each biglaw firm

Postby Anonymous User » Sat Jun 23, 2018 10:33 am

Anonymous User wrote:Today I got an email from HR asking for feedback on the work of a summer associate. I have worked with other summer associates bt have not received similar requests, so I was a little puzzled. Then I look down the list of people he has worked with and saw the name of this junior partner who is horrible to work with and known for giving associates bad reviews and firing them, then I realized that this partner probably instigated this whole thing and HR is basically hoping for negative feedbacks they can gather from us as grounds for no offering him.

Obviously, I’m not going to out this partner. But is there some sort of upwards review website, similar to rateyourprofessor.com for biglaw? If not, someone will make a lot of money making something like this I’m sure. It occurred to me that there are horrible people to work for at every law firm, so instead of assessing the firm it’s really the partner that should get called out. But there is no anonymous website solely for this purpose.

I just feel really bad for this dude. He did good work but had the bad luck of working for this partner and will probably get no offered this summer. I’ve worked with this partner before and never have I ever seen a draft come back worse than the first draft, so I don’t understand how he became a partner in the first place. In any case, I sure hope there is such a thing as karma and that he gets what he deserves.


Ratemyprofessor.com wouldn't work here as partners work with too few Associates, so they could out the Associate who wrote the review. Of course you could do what that former O'Melveny Associate did lol http://brian-boyle-omelveny-torture-att ... gspot.com/

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Re: Bad partners to work for at each biglaw firm

Postby Anonymous User » Sat Jun 23, 2018 2:39 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:Today I got an email from HR asking for feedback on the work of a summer associate. I have worked with other summer associates bt have not received similar requests, so I was a little puzzled. Then I look down the list of people he has worked with and saw the name of this junior partner who is horrible to work with and known for giving associates bad reviews and firing them, then I realized that this partner probably instigated this whole thing and HR is basically hoping for negative feedbacks they can gather from us as grounds for no offering him.

Obviously, I’m not going to out this partner. But is there some sort of upwards review website, similar to rateyourprofessor.com for biglaw? If not, someone will make a lot of money making something like this I’m sure. It occurred to me that there are horrible people to work for at every law firm, so instead of assessing the firm it’s really the partner that should get called out. But there is no anonymous website solely for this purpose.

I just feel really bad for this dude. He did good work but had the bad luck of working for this partner and will probably get no offered this summer. I’ve worked with this partner before and never have I ever seen a draft come back worse than the first draft, so I don’t understand how he became a partner in the first place. In any case, I sure hope there is such a thing as karma and that he gets what he deserves.


Ratemyprofessor.com wouldn't work here as partners work with too few Associates, so they could out the Associate who wrote the review. Of course you could do what that former O'Melveny Associate did lol http://brian-boyle-omelveny-torture-att ... gspot.com/



It can work if if you rate the partners based on a metric of vote rather than providing individual comments. That way, you only vote on things like intellect, collegiality, etc. on a 1-10 scale based as an anonymous voter, rather than providing comments that could easily reveal your identity.

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Re: Bad partners to work for at each biglaw firm

Postby Anonymous User » Sat Jun 23, 2018 2:42 pm

oblig.lawl.ref wrote:
RaceJudicata wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:then I realized that this partner probably instigated this whole thing and HR is basically hoping for negative feedbacks they can gather from us as grounds for no offering him.


It's probably the opposite. Firms don't want to no offer people; they're probably looking for positive reviews to justify giving him an offer. If you think he deserves it, you should give him a positive review.


That’s really naive. The normal route for summer associate evaluations is through a special firm-wide evaluation flatform and such requests are generated for every summer. When HR emails us about a specific summer without using this system, and does not do so for all summer associates, it is only because HR is looking for negative reviews. Of course I would not give him a negative review, but my review won’t matter as long as this partner dislikes him. HR is not going to say that it’s looking for bad reviews specifically for liability reasons.



Why is that "really naive"? All firms have different Summer Associate review protocols. For instance, at my firm, the partner is supposed to review the SA's work. However, if the summer doesn't have much interaction with the partner and the associate is the one actually handling the assignment, then the HR folks send that associate a separate request to provide a review. Not necessarily looking for "good" review or "bad" review -- just a review from someone that worked closely with the SA.

How it works (at my firm, and in my office - no clue what other offices do) is they send the review to partner X and s/he says "I didn't really work closely with the SA on this assignment; please reach out to associate Y to provide a review."

Of course, your firm's system may be different -- but its certainly not "naive" to make the point above. I digress.


Yeah pretty aggressive IMO to say that's "really naive." At my firm, at least, HR (and similar professional development people) absolutely get second opinions if there's an isolated bad review. Starting to seem like your firm may just be a hellhole. Does it give market shattering bonuses by any chance? Or set the market for prorated summer bonuses, perhaps?

Your whole sordid story is starting to leave a bad taste in my mouth. I must go now.

(But you should try to give that SA a good review and not tell them and hope that bails them out. Getting no offered is no bueno.)


We do indeed on both fronts, and we are slow, so I have a feeling a few summers will be no-offered this year.

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Re: Bad partners to work for at each biglaw firm

Postby Anonymous User » Sat Jun 23, 2018 3:02 pm

If bad partner writes bad reviews for everyone then the firm likely knows that by now and takes bad reviews from that partner with a grain of salt. As for why they became partner, maybe they bring in business or maybe a rainmaker really liked working with them. Tough to say. A lot of people who are terrible to those under them are great for people above them. Don’t give the summer a heads up or anything. That’d be dumb and just exposes yourself to some risk.

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Re: Bad partners to work for at each biglaw firm

Postby Anonymous User » Sat Jun 23, 2018 3:07 pm

worklifewhat wrote:
Wild Card wrote:Incidentally, what's the best way to find out who the terrible partners are? Asking current or former associates?


Make friends with someone who’s a bit senior to you and will give you the inside scoop.

At happy hour type things and after party type summer things, once the liquor starts flowing people will give good insights.

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Re: Bad partners to work for at each biglaw firm

Postby JusticeJackson » Sat Jun 23, 2018 3:18 pm

I’ve seen summers no offered even though everyone knew the bad review came from that one partner that gives everyone bad reviews. It was usually an issue where the summer got stuck doing a lot of work for the guy, and where no more powerful partners felt compelled to stand up and say “nah I liked that one.” Was shitty because I gave the no offered summers super good reviews and no one seemed to give a shit.

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Re: Bad partners to work for at each biglaw firm

Postby Anonymous User » Sat Jun 23, 2018 6:19 pm

JusticeJackson wrote:I’ve seen summers no offered even though everyone knew the bad review came from that one partner that gives everyone bad reviews. It was usually an issue where the summer got stuck doing a lot of work for the guy, and where no more powerful partners felt compelled to stand up and say “nah I liked that one.” Was shitty because I gave the no offered summers super good reviews and no one seemed to give a shit.


This + 100. Unfortunately, this partner has only worked for this horrible partner and no other partners.

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Re: Bad partners to work for at each biglaw firm

Postby Anonymous User » Sat Jun 23, 2018 6:21 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
worklifewhat wrote:
Wild Card wrote:Incidentally, what's the best way to find out who the terrible partners are? Asking current or former associates?


Make friends with someone who’s a bit senior to you and will give you the inside scoop.

At happy hour type things and after party type summer things, once the liquor starts flowing people will give good insights.


This + identifying people who click with you and seem to like to give advice (rare in biglaw) at social events, and constantly following up to offer to do work for them, then do a really good job for them so you gain their trust.

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Re: Bad partners to work for at each biglaw firm

Postby Anonymous User » Sat Jun 23, 2018 6:25 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
JusticeJackson wrote:I’ve seen summers no offered even though everyone knew the bad review came from that one partner that gives everyone bad reviews. It was usually an issue where the summer got stuck doing a lot of work for the guy, and where no more powerful partners felt compelled to stand up and say “nah I liked that one.” Was shitty because I gave the no offered summers super good reviews and no one seemed to give a shit.


This + 100. Unfortunately, this partner has only worked for this horrible partner and no other partners.


Guess if I have any advice for future summers/associates from this story, it is to make sure you work for two or three partners rather than just one partner. That way even if you are assigned to a horrible partner, there is at least a chance another partner might take pity on you. If you are only assigned to this horrible partner, try emailing or dropping by the office of partners who went to your alma mater and ask to grab lunch/coffee with them. If they seem nice,offer to do work for them, and do a good job so there’s a greater chance they might be able to save you.

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Re: Bad partners to work for at each biglaw firm

Postby Anonymous User » Sat Jun 23, 2018 11:14 pm

Anonymous User wrote:Today I got an email from HR asking for feedback on the work of a summer associate. I have worked with other summer associates bt have not received similar requests, so I was a little puzzled. Then I look down the list of people he has worked with and saw the name of this junior partner who is horrible to work with and known for giving associates bad reviews and firing them, then I realized that this partner probably instigated this whole thing and HR is basically hoping for negative feedbacks they can gather from us as grounds for no offering him.

Obviously, I’m not going to out this partner. But is there some sort of upwards review website, similar to rateyourprofessor.com for biglaw? If not, someone will make a lot of money making something like this I’m sure. It occurred to me that there are horrible people to work for at every law firm, so instead of assessing the firm it’s really the partner that should get called out. But there is no anonymous website solely for this purpose.

I just feel really bad for this dude. He did good work but had the bad luck of working for this partner and will probably get no offered this summer. I’ve worked with this partner before and never have I ever seen a draft come back worse than the first draft, so I don’t understand how he became a partner in the first place. In any case, I sure hope there is such a thing as karma and that he gets what he deserves.

Update: it has come to my attention that a website for this purpose indeed exists for biglaw and it seems to have been created by an anonymous current/ex biglaw attorney: https://upwardrevs.com/

Let the ratings begin...

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Re: Bad partners to work for at each biglaw firm

Postby Anonymous User » Wed Jun 27, 2018 12:24 pm

I checked out the upward reviews website but don't see any actual ratings. It's only empty listings of every firm's partners.



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