1) it's a sign of the financial stability of the firm (i.e. job security) and 2) higher PPP/RPL means the firm is more likely to match future raises. also a sign that the firm gets high level work and is likely to correlate with exit options.DougEvans789 wrote:I’ve heard this but always found it kinda curious. As an associate, you’re not an owner of the firm, so why would your first concern be its revenue or profitability? I can’t imagine a non-lawyer would ever pick his company based on its earnings per share or whatever. Especially not if (for some reason) he knew he’d probably never own its stock.Anonymous User wrote:PPP and RPL are the best metrics. Law firms exist to make money. Nothing else matters.Anonymous User wrote:Are the Above the Law rankings more accurate?
2019 Vault 100 Rankings Released Forum
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Re: 2019 Vault 100 Rankings Released
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Re: 2019 Vault 100 Rankings Released
They all pay the same and do the same stuff. Quality of life is going to be group/partner specific more than any firmwide generalizations. You can do the chambers bands but if the firm isn’t overall profitable you could get screwed anyways on comp and the stability of leaving when you want as opposed to getting canned early.DougEvans789 wrote:I’ve heard this but always found it kinda curious. As an associate, you’re not an owner of the firm, so why would your first concern be its revenue or profitability? I can’t imagine a non-lawyer would ever pick his company based on its earnings per share or whatever. Especially not if (for some reason) he knew he’d probably never own its stock.Anonymous User wrote:PPP and RPL are the best metrics. Law firms exist to make money. Nothing else matters.Anonymous User wrote:Are the Above the Law rankings more accurate?
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Re: 2019 Vault 100 Rankings Released
LaTTTham in the V5 is the silliest thing I've ever heard of
This profession has the shortest term memory in the world
Although DPW definitely deserves the ousting
This profession has the shortest term memory in the world
Although DPW definitely deserves the ousting
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Re: 2019 Vault 100 Rankings Released
Well, only stupid people put any weight into these rankings that place Cravath ahead of Wachtell. As someone who's working in biglaw, I would say the more specific Vault rankings (region, practice area, etc) could be helpful to law students. I participated in the Vault survey as well and I can say the overall rankings are just completely useless.Anonymous User wrote:Well, shit, what are these rankings even good for? They trick people into making poor decisions.Anonymous User wrote:consensus seems to be noAnonymous User wrote:Okay, Paul Hastings. I see you. Is PH actually a good place to work (not talking about prestige, I’m talking about the culture, hours, and overall work/life balance)?
- nealric
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Re: 2019 Vault 100 Rankings Released
It's kind of like USNWR putting Harvard in front of Yale from time to time. The larger institution tends to occupy more mind space.Anonymous User wrote:Well, only stupid people put any weight into these rankings that place Cravath ahead of Wachtell. As someone who's working in biglaw, I would say the more specific Vault rankings (region, practice area, etc) could be helpful to law students. I participated in the Vault survey as well and I can say the overall rankings are just completely useless.Anonymous User wrote:Well, shit, what are these rankings even good for? They trick people into making poor decisions.Anonymous User wrote:consensus seems to be noAnonymous User wrote:Okay, Paul Hastings. I see you. Is PH actually a good place to work (not talking about prestige, I’m talking about the culture, hours, and overall work/life balance)?
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Re: 2019 Vault 100 Rankings Released
Noob. V10 doesn't mean shit in the first place.Anonymous User wrote:So confused by you. V10 means Vault 10 and we are talking about vault rankings. So either the list is idiotic and you shouldn’t refer to a firm by their vault ranking or it isn’t idiotic and their vault ranking matters.Anonymous User wrote:Milbank is a V10, this list is idiotic
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Re: 2019 Vault 100 Rankings Released
The difference is USNWR never put Harvard in front of Yale. When the rankings first came out in 1987 (or 1988 I'm not sure), they tied.nealric wrote:It's kind of like USNWR putting Harvard in front of Yale from time to time. The larger institution tends to occupy more mind space.Anonymous User wrote:Well, only stupid people put any weight into these rankings that place Cravath ahead of Wachtell. As someone who's working in biglaw, I would say the more specific Vault rankings (region, practice area, etc) could be helpful to law students. I participated in the Vault survey as well and I can say the overall rankings are just completely useless.Anonymous User wrote:Well, shit, what are these rankings even good for? They trick people into making poor decisions.Anonymous User wrote:consensus seems to be noAnonymous User wrote:Okay, Paul Hastings. I see you. Is PH actually a good place to work (not talking about prestige, I’m talking about the culture, hours, and overall work/life balance)?
Also, USNWR is based clearly on selectivity. On the other hand, Vault overall rankings are not based on selectivity either. Vault has a separate selectivity rankings and that's based on selectivity.
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Re: 2019 Vault 100 Rankings Released
Whether a firm would match the market bonus or salary is tied closely to those PPP and RPL metrics.DougEvans789 wrote:I’ve heard this but always found it kinda curious. As an associate, you’re not an owner of the firm, so why would your first concern be its revenue or profitability? I can’t imagine a non-lawyer would ever pick his company based on its earnings per share or whatever. Especially not if (for some reason) he knew he’d probably never own its stock.Anonymous User wrote:PPP and RPL are the best metrics. Law firms exist to make money. Nothing else matters.Anonymous User wrote:Are the Above the Law rankings more accurate?
- jbagelboy
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Re: 2019 Vault 100 Rankings Released
except this has literally never happenednealric wrote:It's kind of like USNWR putting Harvard in front of Yale from time to time. The larger institution tends to occupy more mind space.Anonymous User wrote:Well, only stupid people put any weight into these rankings that place Cravath ahead of Wachtell. As someone who's working in biglaw, I would say the more specific Vault rankings (region, practice area, etc) could be helpful to law students. I participated in the Vault survey as well and I can say the overall rankings are just completely useless.Anonymous User wrote:Well, shit, what are these rankings even good for? They trick people into making poor decisions.Anonymous User wrote:consensus seems to be noAnonymous User wrote:Okay, Paul Hastings. I see you. Is PH actually a good place to work (not talking about prestige, I’m talking about the culture, hours, and overall work/life balance)?
- nealric
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Re: 2019 Vault 100 Rankings Released
I'm probably thinking of Stanford USNWR is largely selectivity, but there's also survey score involved.Anonymous User wrote:The difference is USNWR never put Harvard in front of Yale. When the rankings first came out in 1987 (or 1988 I'm not sure), they tied.nealric wrote:It's kind of like USNWR putting Harvard in front of Yale from time to time. The larger institution tends to occupy more mind space.Anonymous User wrote:Well, only stupid people put any weight into these rankings that place Cravath ahead of Wachtell. As someone who's working in biglaw, I would say the more specific Vault rankings (region, practice area, etc) could be helpful to law students. I participated in the Vault survey as well and I can say the overall rankings are just completely useless.Anonymous User wrote:Well, shit, what are these rankings even good for? They trick people into making poor decisions.Anonymous User wrote:consensus seems to be noAnonymous User wrote:Okay, Paul Hastings. I see you. Is PH actually a good place to work (not talking about prestige, I’m talking about the culture, hours, and overall work/life balance)?
Also, USNWR is based clearly on selectivity. On the other hand, Vault overall rankings are not based on selectivity either. Vault has a separate selectivity rankings and that's based on selectivity.
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Re: 2019 Vault 100 Rankings Released
I know this is all silly and trivial stuff. But just to point out, Stanford has never been number 1. TLS has a thread containing historical rankings which I looked at years ago. USNWR have been remarkably stable, especially the top 6.nealric wrote:I'm probably thinking of Stanford USNWR is largely selectivity, but there's also survey score involved.Anonymous User wrote:The difference is USNWR never put Harvard in front of Yale. When the rankings first came out in 1987 (or 1988 I'm not sure), they tied.nealric wrote:It's kind of like USNWR putting Harvard in front of Yale from time to time. The larger institution tends to occupy more mind space.Anonymous User wrote:Well, only stupid people put any weight into these rankings that place Cravath ahead of Wachtell. As someone who's working in biglaw, I would say the more specific Vault rankings (region, practice area, etc) could be helpful to law students. I participated in the Vault survey as well and I can say the overall rankings are just completely useless.Anonymous User wrote:Well, shit, what are these rankings even good for? They trick people into making poor decisions.Anonymous User wrote:consensus seems to be noAnonymous User wrote:Okay, Paul Hastings. I see you. Is PH actually a good place to work (not talking about prestige, I’m talking about the culture, hours, and overall work/life balance)?
Also, USNWR is based clearly on selectivity. On the other hand, Vault overall rankings are not based on selectivity either. Vault has a separate selectivity rankings and that's based on selectivity.
- smokeylarue
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Re: 2019 Vault 100 Rankings Released
I assume he is talking about the infinitely more famous and important USNews rankings for top colleges. The top schools swap spots all the time.Anonymous User wrote: I know this is all silly and trivial stuff. But just to point out, Stanford has never been number 1. TLS has a thread containing historical rankings which I looked at years ago. USNWR have been remarkably stable, especially the top 6.
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Re: 2019 Vault 100 Rankings Released
Within the same professional industry, usually we value those companies with higher revenues/profits as likely better. Think people mentioning I work at a Fortune 100 or whatever.DougEvans789 wrote:I’ve heard this but always found it kinda curious. As an associate, you’re not an owner of the firm, so why would your first concern be its revenue or profitability? I can’t imagine a non-lawyer would ever pick his company based on its earnings per share or whatever. Especially not if (for some reason) he knew he’d probably never own its stock.Anonymous User wrote:PPP and RPL are the best metrics. Law firms exist to make money. Nothing else matters.Anonymous User wrote:Are the Above the Law rankings more accurate?
I think the only distinction in law is higher aggregate revenue or aggregate profit matter less as there is less added benefit/synergy to being one firm so the per person metrics matter significantly more.
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- nealric
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Re: 2019 Vault 100 Rankings Released
That may be it. Have to admit I don't follow USNWR very closely.smokeylarue wrote:I assume he is talking about the infinitely more famous and important USNews rankings for top colleges. The top schools swap spots all the time.Anonymous User wrote: I know this is all silly and trivial stuff. But just to point out, Stanford has never been number 1. TLS has a thread containing historical rankings which I looked at years ago. USNWR have been remarkably stable, especially the top 6.
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Re: 2019 Vault 100 Rankings Released
The Real Top 5 Most Prestigious Law Firms: (firms with over 100 lawyers)
1. wachtell lipton rosen and katz
2. Williams & Connolly
3. Susman Godfrey
4. Cravath
5. Kirkland
(based on a combination of associate pay, partnership prospects, brand recognition, viable exit options)
1. wachtell lipton rosen and katz
2. Williams & Connolly
3. Susman Godfrey
4. Cravath
5. Kirkland
(based on a combination of associate pay, partnership prospects, brand recognition, viable exit options)
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Re: 2019 Vault 100 Rankings Released
Kirkland associate detectedAnonymous User wrote:The Real Top 5 Most Prestigious Law Firms: (firms with over 100 lawyers)
1. Wachtell Lipton Rosen and Katz
2. Williams & Connolly
3. Susman Godfrey
4. Cravath
5. Kirkland
(based on a combination of associate pay, partnership prospects, brand recognition, viable exit options)
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Re: 2019 Vault 100 Rankings Released
Except it's truedabigchina wrote:Kirkland associate detectedAnonymous User wrote:The Real Top 5 Most Prestigious Law Firms: (firms with over 100 lawyers)
1. Wachtell Lipton Rosen and Katz
2. Williams & Connolly
3. Susman Godfrey
4. Cravath
5. Kirkland
(based on a combination of associate pay, partnership prospects, brand recognition, viable exit options)
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Re: 2019 Vault 100 Rankings Released
dabigchina wrote:Kirkland associate detectedAnonymous User wrote:The Real Top 5 Most Prestigious Law Firms: (firms with over 100 lawyers)
1. Wachtell Lipton Rosen and Katz
2. Williams & Connolly
3. Susman Godfrey
4. Cravath
5. Kirkland
(based on a combination of associate pay, partnership prospects, brand recognition, viable exit options)
I'm the anon who posted this ranking. I don't work at Kirkland.
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Re: 2019 Vault 100 Rankings Released
Lol. Equity Partnership prospects are not good at Kirkland or Cravath.Anonymous User wrote:Except it's truedabigchina wrote:Kirkland associate detectedAnonymous User wrote:The Real Top 5 Most Prestigious Law Firms: (firms with over 100 lawyers)
1. Wachtell Lipton Rosen and Katz
2. Williams & Connolly
3. Susman Godfrey
4. Cravath
5. Kirkland
(based on a combination of associate pay, partnership prospects, brand recognition, viable exit options)
I’d also put Boies above Kirkland. And also Kellog, Keker and Kobre & Kim (since they’re all practically at 100 attorneys)
Last edited by Anonymous User on Wed Jun 20, 2018 2:39 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: 2019 Vault 100 Rankings Released
MTOAnonymous User wrote:Except it's truedabigchina wrote:Kirkland associate detectedAnonymous User wrote:The Real Top 5 Most Prestigious Law Firms: (firms with over 100 lawyers)
1. Wachtell Lipton Rosen and Katz
2. Williams & Connolly
3. Susman Godfrey
4. Cravath
5. Kirkland
(based on a combination of associate pay, partnership prospects, brand recognition, viable exit options)
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Re: 2019 Vault 100 Rankings Released
People have more of an issue with Kirkland than below-market W&C?
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Re: 2019 Vault 100 Rankings Released
.
Last edited by Anonymous User on Wed Jun 20, 2018 2:44 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: 2019 Vault 100 Rankings Released
Equity partnership prospects are not *good* at anywhere that is prestigious enough to be considered here. Prestige comes from working for prestigious clients. Building a book when your clients are institutions like Goldman, KKR, Blackstone, etc etc is extremely difficult.Anonymous User wrote:Lol. Equity Partnership prospects are not good at Kirkland or Cravath.Anonymous User wrote:Except it's truedabigchina wrote:Kirkland associate detectedAnonymous User wrote:The Real Top 5 Most Prestigious Law Firms: (firms with over 100 lawyers)
1. Wachtell Lipton Rosen and Katz
2. Williams & Connolly
3. Susman Godfrey
4. Cravath
5. Kirkland
(based on a combination of associate pay, partnership prospects, brand recognition, viable exit options)
I’d also put Boies above Kirkland.
However, if you are a senior associate at Cravath or a non-share at Kirkland, you will be able to get shares at a slightly lesser firm, or go in-house somewhere excellent - that is the point of prestige, and if you don't see that, you're missing the forest for the trees.
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Re: 2019 Vault 100 Rankings Released
Yeah, sorry Kirkland. Proposed revised:Anonymous User wrote:Equity partnership prospects are not *good* at anywhere that is prestigious enough to be considered here. Prestige comes from working for prestigious clients. Building a book when your clients are institutions like Goldman, KKR, Blackstone, etc etc is extremely difficult.Anonymous User wrote:Lol. Equity Partnership prospects are not good at Kirkland or Cravath.Anonymous User wrote:Except it's truedabigchina wrote:Kirkland associate detectedAnonymous User wrote:The Real Top 5 Most Prestigious Law Firms: (firms with over 100 lawyers)
1. Wachtell Lipton Rosen and Katz
2. Williams & Connolly
3. Susman Godfrey
4. Cravath
5. Kirkland
(based on a combination of associate pay, partnership prospects, brand recognition, viable exit options)
I’d also put Boies above Kirkland.
However, if you are a senior associate at Cravath or a non-share at Kirkland, you will be able to get shares at a slightly lesser firm, or go in-house somewhere excellent - that is the point of prestige, and if you don't see that, you're missing the forest for the trees.
1. wachtell lipton rosen and katz
2. Williams & Connolly
3. Susman Godfrey
4. Kellog Hansen
5. Boies Schiller
6. Cravath
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Re: 2019 Vault 100 Rankings Released
nopeAnonymous User wrote:Yeah, sorry Kirkland. Proposed revised:Anonymous User wrote:Equity partnership prospects are not *good* at anywhere that is prestigious enough to be considered here. Prestige comes from working for prestigious clients. Building a book when your clients are institutions like Goldman, KKR, Blackstone, etc etc is extremely difficult.Anonymous User wrote:Lol. Equity Partnership prospects are not good at Kirkland or Cravath.Anonymous User wrote:Except it's truedabigchina wrote:Kirkland associate detectedAnonymous User wrote:The Real Top 5 Most Prestigious Law Firms: (firms with over 100 lawyers)
1. Wachtell Lipton Rosen and Katz
2. Williams & Connolly
3. Susman Godfrey
4. Cravath
5. Kirkland
(based on a combination of associate pay, partnership prospects, brand recognition, viable exit options)
I’d also put Boies above Kirkland.
However, if you are a senior associate at Cravath or a non-share at Kirkland, you will be able to get shares at a slightly lesser firm, or go in-house somewhere excellent - that is the point of prestige, and if you don't see that, you're missing the forest for the trees.
1. Wachtell Lipton Rosen and Katz
2. Williams & Connolly
3. Susman Godfrey
4. Kellog Hansen
5. Boies Schiller
6. Cravath
1. Paul Hastings
2. Dechert
3. Cadwalader
4. Troutman Sanders
5. Cadwalader
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