DOJ Honors Program 2018-2019

(On Campus Interviews, Summer Associate positions, Firm Reviews, Tips, ...)
Forum rules
Anonymous Posting

Anonymous posting is only appropriate when you are revealing sensitive employment related information about a firm, job, etc. You may anonymously respond on topic to these threads. Unacceptable uses include: harassing another user, joking around, testing the feature, or other things that are more appropriate in the lounge.

Failure to follow these rules will get you outed, warned, or banned.
Anonymous User
Posts: 334269
Joined: Tue Aug 11, 2009 9:32 am

Re: DOJ Honors Program 2018-2019

Postby Anonymous User » Wed Dec 12, 2018 6:29 pm

Anonymous User wrote:Sorry don’t know how to reply to a particular post. I’m the person who got an ocij offer from San Antonio. The other offer wasn’t from the honors program.


Too bad... we could have been coworkers!

Anonymous User
Posts: 334269
Joined: Tue Aug 11, 2009 9:32 am

Re: DOJ Honors Program 2018-2019

Postby Anonymous User » Thu Dec 13, 2018 6:49 pm

Anyone heard anything OCIJ?

Anonymous User
Posts: 334269
Joined: Tue Aug 11, 2009 9:32 am

Re: DOJ Honors Program 2018-2019

Postby Anonymous User » Fri Dec 14, 2018 11:54 am

Anyone hear anything out of 26 Federal Plaza?

Anonymous User
Posts: 334269
Joined: Tue Aug 11, 2009 9:32 am

Re: DOJ Honors Program 2018-2019

Postby Anonymous User » Mon Dec 17, 2018 12:07 pm

Anonymous User wrote:Anyone heard anything OCIJ?


I received an offer via email from OCIJ in Falls Church last week. I only selected Arlington and Falls Church. However, I turned it down for another Honor's offer.

kb93

New
Posts: 1
Joined: Thu Nov 15, 2018 2:15 pm

Re: DOJ Honors Program 2018-2019

Postby kb93 » Tue Dec 18, 2018 12:39 pm

Has anybody that had to stay overnight for their interview(s) received reimbursement yet?

Anonymous User
Posts: 334269
Joined: Tue Aug 11, 2009 9:32 am

Re: DOJ Honors Program 2018-2019

Postby Anonymous User » Tue Dec 18, 2018 12:43 pm

Received OCIJ offer for the paradise of LaSalle detention center last week (if you're unfamiliar, give it a Google). Wasn't in my 15 listed destinations, but my mistake was then checking the "send me anywhere" box. As I see people declining OCIJ offers, I realize I probably should have listed all destinations except the worst two or three, not checked the "send me anywhere" box, and possibly settled with an alternate position instead of a first round offer to LaSalle.

Anonymous User
Posts: 334269
Joined: Tue Aug 11, 2009 9:32 am

Re: DOJ Honors Program 2018-2019

Postby Anonymous User » Tue Dec 18, 2018 6:07 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:Anyone heard anything OCIJ?


I received an offer via email from OCIJ in Falls Church last week. I only selected Arlington and Falls Church. However, I turned it down for another Honor's offer.


Was the other Honors offer from another agency?

Anonymous User
Posts: 334269
Joined: Tue Aug 11, 2009 9:32 am

Re: DOJ Honors Program 2018-2019

Postby Anonymous User » Tue Dec 18, 2018 11:08 pm

I am awaiting results from OCIJ, but is anyone else facing a moral dilemma whether to accept an offer. I find this administration's attitude and policies regarding immigration to be horrible, plain and simple. Would I be complicit in enforcing an immoral agenda? Will I hate my job and myself? Perhaps no offer would work out best for someone like me.

Anonymous User
Posts: 334269
Joined: Tue Aug 11, 2009 9:32 am

Re: DOJ Honors Program 2018-2019

Postby Anonymous User » Wed Dec 19, 2018 9:23 am

Anonymous User wrote:I am awaiting results from OCIJ, but is anyone else facing a moral dilemma whether to accept an offer. I find this administration's attitude and policies regarding immigration to be horrible, plain and simple. Would I be complicit in enforcing an immoral agenda? Will I hate my job and myself? Perhaps no offer would work out best for someone like me.



A couple things, first of all you’d we working for a judge not a prosecutor, so you wouldn’t be enforcing anyone’s agenda (theoretically, at least).

Second, personally I think it can be a really valuable experience to engage with “the other side.” You may think you know all there is to know based on what you’ve heard and read but most likely it’s way way way more complex and sensitive than you think it is.

I also have similar concerns, and I think this is a valid question, and i’ve accepted an offer and gotten heat about it from friends and family. But, this is actually precisely why i’m looking forward to this job. It’s not gonna be easy, it’s not gonna bore, it’s gonna make me think and feel a lot about burning questions, and interact with policies and people I *think* I disagree with. All in all, I think it’s really a fantastic opportunity.

Anonymous User
Posts: 334269
Joined: Tue Aug 11, 2009 9:32 am

Re: DOJ Honors Program 2018-2019

Postby Anonymous User » Wed Dec 19, 2018 11:30 am

Thanks for your thoughts. It's good to hear that others have similar concerns. I certainly understand the distinction between being enforcement and being the neutral arbiter (That distinction is why I did not apply to DHS honors). Plus I understand immigration law is very nuanced and not black or white. Perhaps it is good for people like us to be part of the EOIR. I am certainly not one of those who think immigration courts are evil period and don't serve an important purpose.

At the same time, immigration judges, as executive branch judges, appear more like line cooks (at least compared to federal judges), simply applying the law with very little discretion---and that "law" at this level looks very much like policy. For example, Trump has tried to cancel TPS for Haiti, El Salvador, Nicaragua and Sudan (which was blocked by federal courts) and change the law on how one applies for asylum (also challenged in court). Judges apply the law, but this administration continues to "move the goalposts" and judges have to conform. In my opinion, anyone who thinks critically about it should conclude that the policy is driven by xenophobia and a desire to decrease immigration from places they consider undesirable. Hence, my fear of "enforcing an immoral agenda." My two cents.

Anonymous User
Posts: 334269
Joined: Tue Aug 11, 2009 9:32 am

Re: DOJ Honors Program 2018-2019

Postby Anonymous User » Wed Dec 19, 2018 1:36 pm

Anonymous User wrote:Thanks for your thoughts. It's good to hear that others have similar concerns. I certainly understand the distinction between being enforcement and being the neutral arbiter (That distinction is why I did not apply to DHS honors). Plus I understand immigration law is very nuanced and not black or white. Perhaps it is good for people like us to be part of the EOIR. I am certainly not one of those who think immigration courts are evil period and don't serve an important purpose.

At the same time, immigration judges, as executive branch judges, appear more like line cooks (at least compared to federal judges), simply applying the law with very little discretion---and that "law" at this level looks very much like policy. For example, Trump has tried to cancel TPS for Haiti, El Salvador, Nicaragua and Sudan (which was blocked by federal courts) and change the law on how one applies for asylum (also challenged in court). Judges apply the law, but this administration continues to "move the goalposts" and judges have to conform. In my opinion, anyone who thinks critically about it should conclude that the policy is driven by xenophobia and a desire to decrease immigration from places they consider undesirable. Hence, my fear of "enforcing an immoral agenda." My two cents.


Figured I can clarify some information here:

Immigration judges do not conform to the administration policies. Although they are under the wing of the DOJ, they are judges and must execute their duties to seek justice and separate, not expand, the powers of other branches within the federal government. Also, a lot of it depends on the courthouse that you are in. For example, most asylum claims in more liberal courthouses will be granted while most asylum claims in more conservative courthouses will not. That is why forum shopping, as it is coined, plays a significant role in immigration proceedings. Again, it all comes back to the discretion that immigration judges are granted in most cases, and whether they want to act on it or not.

Also, the DHS attorneys that represent the government in removal proceedings are by in large doing the same jobs that they have been doing for many years, including under the Obama administration where more immigrants were deported than under any other administration in the past. Some of their strategies and policies have changed, but their main goal of enforcing the immigration laws remains stagnant. Most people simply have limited or zero experience with immigration courts and base their opinions on what they see in the media/on the news, (be it pro- or anti- government).

I am not taking a standpoint here one way or the other. Rather, I believe that it is crucial to really understand both sides of the aisle, as most people are generally only exposed to one. Having any opportunity to do so after graduating law school will only benefit you and everyone else you seek to help/protect in the future, be it for the government or for the defense.

Best of luck hearing back and with your ultimate decision.

Anonymous User
Posts: 334269
Joined: Tue Aug 11, 2009 9:32 am

Re: DOJ Honors Program 2018-2019

Postby Anonymous User » Wed Dec 19, 2018 1:42 pm

Speaking of DHS, anyone happen to know if any DHS finalists have heard back?

Anonymous User
Posts: 334269
Joined: Tue Aug 11, 2009 9:32 am

Re: DOJ Honors Program 2018-2019

Postby Anonymous User » Wed Dec 19, 2018 2:34 pm

Anyone else heard back from Civil Tax?

Anonymous User
Posts: 334269
Joined: Tue Aug 11, 2009 9:32 am

Re: DOJ Honors Program 2018-2019

Postby Anonymous User » Thu Dec 20, 2018 4:47 pm

Anonymous User wrote:I am awaiting results from OCIJ, but is anyone else facing a moral dilemma whether to accept an offer. I find this administration's attitude and policies regarding immigration to be horrible, plain and simple. Would I be complicit in enforcing an immoral agenda? Will I hate my job and myself? Perhaps no offer would work out best for someone like me.


I interned for OCIJ as a Volunteer Legal Intern during the Obama Administration, after working at a nonprofit legal aid that focused on immigration defense. I wanted to expand my knowledge and broaden my perspective on immigration, I had no intention of seeking continued employment with OCIJ and had no plans to even apply for the Honors Program.

I ended up loving every minute of my internship. Don’t get me wrong, I had to draft removal orders that I didn’t always agree with, research legal issues and draft memos that were not favorable to the Respondents, and observed heart wrenching merits hearings that concluded with a denial, but my experience in totality was nothing but positive.

I went on to be a SLIP for OCIJ at a different court during the Trump Administration and shared the same concerns that you have now. However, I ended up enjoying my experience just as much. The rhetoric on the media and in public towards immigration is rough right now, but you’ll quickly pick up that inside the Court’s its all “business as usual.”

All of the Law Clerks/Attorney Advisors who were my mentors/supervisors (at both Courts I interned at) were all generally liberal leaning and sympathetic towards Respondents and all expressed to me how much they “loved their job.” I never felt a sense of “immorality” within the Court or in the office. The ability to speak to Judges, after they issued removal orders, to understand their rational and decision is something that no one else is able to do - it’s also extremely useful to have this insight if you ever decided to become a private practitioner. Ultimately, an offer from OCIJ/the Honors Program isn’t an end-all-be-all, its a two year commitment that opens a lot of doors for you if you decide to stay within the Federal Govrenment or if you decide to be a private practitioner.

I hope this helps! Good luck in your decision.

Tulawimm

New
Posts: 2
Joined: Wed Nov 21, 2018 6:48 pm

Re: DOJ Honors Program 2018-2019

Postby Tulawimm » Thu Dec 20, 2018 8:02 pm

I received an offer today for EOIR-OCIJ Fort Worth court. I was interviewed first day of interviews and had at least one reference checked in really November. A little about me. I'm from a bottom 100 law school, top 15%, journal, some judicial experience and extensive immigration experience. Good luck everyone. Don't give up hope! I had, and here I am!

Anonymous User
Posts: 334269
Joined: Tue Aug 11, 2009 9:32 am

Re: DOJ Honors Program 2018-2019

Postby Anonymous User » Thu Dec 20, 2018 8:55 pm

The fact that people are still waiting on reimbursements from interviews gives me LITTLE BIT of hope that they are severely lagging/still sending out first round offers. I wonder if offers will be affected by this allegedly looming “partial government shutdown.”

Anonymous User
Posts: 334269
Joined: Tue Aug 11, 2009 9:32 am

Re: DOJ Honors Program 2018-2019

Postby Anonymous User » Fri Dec 21, 2018 12:38 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:I am awaiting results from OCIJ, but is anyone else facing a moral dilemma whether to accept an offer. I find this administration's attitude and policies regarding immigration to be horrible, plain and simple. Would I be complicit in enforcing an immoral agenda? Will I hate my job and myself? Perhaps no offer would work out best for someone like me.


I interned for OCIJ as a Volunteer Legal Intern during the Obama Administration, after working at a nonprofit legal aid that focused on immigration defense. I wanted to expand my knowledge and broaden my perspective on immigration, I had no intention of seeking continued employment with OCIJ and had no plans to even apply for the Honors Program.

I ended up loving every minute of my internship. Don’t get me wrong, I had to draft removal orders that I didn’t always agree with, research legal issues and draft memos that were not favorable to the Respondents, and observed heart wrenching merits hearings that concluded with a denial, but my experience in totality was nothing but positive.

I went on to be a SLIP for OCIJ at a different court during the Trump Administration and shared the same concerns that you have now. However, I ended up enjoying my experience just as much. The rhetoric on the media and in public towards immigration is rough right now, but you’ll quickly pick up that inside the Court’s its all “business as usual.”

All of the Law Clerks/Attorney Advisors who were my mentors/supervisors (at both Courts I interned at) were all generally liberal leaning and sympathetic towards Respondents and all expressed to me how much they “loved their job.” I never felt a sense of “immorality” within the Court or in the office. The ability to speak to Judges, after they issued removal orders, to understand their rational and decision is something that no one else is able to do - it’s also extremely useful to have this insight if you ever decided to become a private practitioner. Ultimately, an offer from OCIJ/the Honors Program isn’t an end-all-be-all, its a two year commitment that opens a lot of doors for you if you decide to stay within the Federal Govrenment or if you decide to be a private practitioner.

I hope this helps! Good luck in your decision.



This is so incredibly comforting and also confirming of what I was believing/hoping. Thank you so much for sharing this!

Anonymous User
Posts: 334269
Joined: Tue Aug 11, 2009 9:32 am

Re: DOJ Honors Program 2018-2019

Postby Anonymous User » Mon Dec 31, 2018 5:02 pm

Soooo anyone have any sense of how the shutdown will delay written offers etc.?

Also happy almost 2019 TLS!

Anonymous User
Posts: 334269
Joined: Tue Aug 11, 2009 9:32 am

Re: DOJ Honors Program 2018-2019

Postby Anonymous User » Mon Dec 31, 2018 7:32 pm

Pretty sure you’re not getting anything in writing until after the shutdown. Too many people are furloughed and people who aren’t are doing more immediately pressing matters.

Tulawimm

New
Posts: 2
Joined: Wed Nov 21, 2018 6:48 pm

Re: DOJ Honors Program 2018-2019

Postby Tulawimm » Wed Jan 02, 2019 11:48 am

I definitely think no offers will be extended until after the shut down. I emailed the person who extended me my offer to accept my offer and I received an automatic response saying that he is out of the office until funds are appropriated.

Anonymous User
Posts: 334269
Joined: Tue Aug 11, 2009 9:32 am

Re: DOJ Honors Program 2018-2019

Postby Anonymous User » Fri Jan 11, 2019 6:30 pm

Tulawimm wrote:I definitely think no offers will be extended until after the shut down. I emailed the person who extended me my offer to accept my offer and I received an automatic response saying that he is out of the office until funds are appropriated.


I’m actually starting to get a little nervous now. If getting our offers and starting security background stuff is delayed, wouldn’t that mean our start date is delayed as well?

Anonymous User
Posts: 334269
Joined: Tue Aug 11, 2009 9:32 am

Re: DOJ Honors Program 2018-2019

Postby Anonymous User » Fri Jan 11, 2019 6:41 pm

It shouldn’t take until next fall (when an honors hire would start) to complete the background check and required paperwork etc.

Anonymous User
Posts: 334269
Joined: Tue Aug 11, 2009 9:32 am

Re: DOJ Honors Program 2018-2019

Postby Anonymous User » Tue Jan 15, 2019 10:45 am

Anonymous User wrote:It shouldn’t take until next fall (when an honors hire would start) to complete the background check and required paperwork etc.


I’m not so sure. I was planning on starting in August, and the background check takes several months for main Justice. I am getting a bit worried.

Anonymous User
Posts: 334269
Joined: Tue Aug 11, 2009 9:32 am

Re: DOJ Honors Program 2018-2019

Postby Anonymous User » Tue Jan 15, 2019 5:56 pm

Did anyone start a facebook group for new hires?

Anonymous User
Posts: 334269
Joined: Tue Aug 11, 2009 9:32 am

Re: DOJ Honors Program 2018-2019

Postby Anonymous User » Tue Jan 15, 2019 6:25 pm

Anonymous User wrote:Did anyone start a facebook group for new hires?

also interested in this



Return to “Legal Employment?

Who is online

The online users are hidden on this forum.