2L Florida Big Law Help!

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Re: 2L Florida Big Law Help!

Postby Anonymous User » Tue Jun 12, 2018 4:07 pm

sflyr2016 wrote:It seems a lot depends on whether OP is at UF or FSU. According to the LST report, about 5% of last year’s UFL class ended up in DC/NY, which I guarantee you were mostly kids in the top 5%. And overall, 18.5% of students were hired by large firms. So if OP’s at UF, then, like i said, it’ll be tough but he/she has a fairly decent shot. https://www.lstreports.com/schools/flor ... /location/

On the other hand, no reported FSU student landed in NY and only 2% landed in DC. Worse still, only 5.6% landed a big-firm job—given OP’s rank, however, he/she would presumably be one of those handful of FSU students that had a shot.

To be honsest, I’m surprised there’s that big a difference between UF and FSU’s job placement. But, for whatever reason, there is. And my guess is you went to FSU, which would explain why you had such a hard time with those large firms.

All that said, I like OPs odds either way.


From personal experience: some of those UF biglaw numbers are misleading. You are not considering the tax people in those numbers. I know for a certainty some of those hires were people who focused hardcore on tax at UF and were able to pull biglaw in a specialized tax group. Unless OP is focused on hardcore tax classes at UF, I don't think those numbers are completely reflective of what is going on there.

Npret

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Re: 2L Florida Big Law Help!

Postby Npret » Tue Jun 12, 2018 4:07 pm

sflyr2016 wrote:It seems a lot depends on whether OP is at UF or FSU. According to the LST report, about 5% of last year’s UFL class ended up in DC/NY, which I guarantee you were mostly kids in the top 5%. And overall, 18.5% of students were hired by large firms. So if OP’s at UF, then, like i said, it’ll be tough but he/she has a fairly decent shot. https://www.lstreports.com/schools/flor ... /location/

On the other hand, no reported FSU student landed in NY and only 2% landed in DC. Worse still, only 5.6% landed a big-firm job—given OP’s rank, however, he/she would presumably be one of those handful of FSU students that had a shot.

To be honsest, I’m surprised there’s that big a difference between UF and FSU’s job placement. But, for whatever reason, there is. And my guess is you went to FSU, which would explain why you had such a hard time with those large firms.

All that said, I like OPs odds either way.

You don’t think OP should lower his expectations and then quote these tiny numbers of people who get the job he says he wants.
I don’t think OP should count on anything and should be working hard to find a job.

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Re: 2L Florida Big Law Help!

Postby Anonymous User » Tue Jun 12, 2018 4:26 pm

Op here. Thank you for everyone's response. Just to clear things up I go to UF. I have begun mass mailing NY. I was wondering what is the normal time to get a response (if I even get one)?

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Re: 2L Florida Big Law Help!

Postby Anonymous User » Tue Jun 12, 2018 5:43 pm

Anonymous User wrote:Op here. Thank you for everyone's response. Just to clear things up I go to UF. I have begun mass mailing NY. I was wondering what is the normal time to get a response (if I even get one)?


top 6 at FSU/UF here. FWIW, it was FSU top 6. Good luck OP.

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Re: 2L Florida Big Law Help!

Postby Anonymous User » Wed Jun 13, 2018 9:58 am

Any advice on decisions for those of us likely getting jobs? I need to decide between major market (NY) vs. miami biglaw (ideally W&C/HK/GT) vs. Miami midlaw (Akerman/Bilzin).

Super vague question, I know, but would appreciate if anyone could outline the pros/cons or offer personal experience. Having a midlife crisis.

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Re: 2L Florida Big Law Help!

Postby Anonymous User » Wed Jun 13, 2018 12:40 pm

+1

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Re: 2L Florida Big Law Help!

Postby Anonymous User » Wed Jun 13, 2018 3:57 pm

Anonymous User wrote:Any advice on decisions for those of us likely getting jobs? I need to decide between major market (NY) vs. miami biglaw (ideally W&C/HK/GT) vs. Miami midlaw (Akerman/Bilzin).

Super vague question, I know, but would appreciate if anyone could outline the pros/cons or offer personal experience. Having a midlife crisis.

Would also really appreciate any advice on this.

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Re: 2L Florida Big Law Help!

Postby Npret » Wed Jun 13, 2018 4:12 pm

Can you @ people now? Cicero is the poster you might want to hear from on Florida.

sflyr2016

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Re: 2L Florida Big Law Help!

Postby sflyr2016 » Wed Jun 13, 2018 7:41 pm

(I responded to this in the Miami forum, but figure it’s relevant to this thread too.)

Can’t speak to NY vs Miami; that depends on what your preferences are. But if you want Miami, a lot will depend on what you want to do.

I don’t recommend Akerman or Bilzin for corporate, but they, along with GT, should be at the top of your list if you’re interested in real estate or land use. And to be honest, Fl firms don’t really do real corporate work, so id aim for JD, W&C, or MWE which get a sizable amount of work from other offices. As for lit, W&C has a good group down here, but GT, HK, Bilzin and Akerman are probably better options if you want to be here long term as they have good lit groups and are heavily involved locally. Which is important.

Stearns should be in the running too, at least for real estate and lit, but they’re a notch below the firms I just mentioned. There’s also something to be said about cashing in at Weil, Boies, or other NY-market-paying satellites and lateralling to an HK or wherever down the road.

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Re: 2L Florida Big Law Help!

Postby wwwcol » Wed Jun 13, 2018 10:45 pm

Surprised to see Akerman mentioned favorably. Every time I’ve seen them recently, they’re litigating a trash case (often poorly and often plaintiff’s side, oddly enough). Some of the same causes of action that Morgan and Morgan targets.

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Re: 2L Florida Big Law Help!

Postby lavarman84 » Wed Jun 13, 2018 11:12 pm

sflyr2016 wrote:There’s a misunderstanding here. As I posted above, I’m talking about Florida Big/Mid Law. Not just the three V20 firms that happen to have a Miami satellite. I’m including all the the firms in, for example, Vault’s regional ranking for Miami. Those firms pay 160 or more and have summer classes ranging from 3-8 people. Every summer. That’s significantly more than 10-15 spots. More like 40 to 50 in Miami alone. And that would exclude below-Miami-market-paying firms, like Shutts and Gunster. And those are good options too.

Trust me, as someone who went through the OCI process at a Fl school and worked at and was involved in recruiting at one of those market-paying firms, I promise those spots mainly go to top-ranked students at Fl schools. And while HYS grads get the nod over everyone else, there aren’t enough of them coming down here to fill the open spots. So next in line are candidates like OP and Fl-raised t14ers who want to come back.


Finally, someone is giving correct information and advice. Thank you.

Anonymous User wrote:To clarify my point, I am considering "biglaw" to mean the Vault 100 firms that pay market. There is no question there are a bunch of strong "midlaw" shops in Miami and South Fl that pay a lot. But they are not "biglaw" by this definition used by the legal market.

In my previous statements, I was trying to be clear there is a tiny number of "biglaw" summer gigs in South Fl. These Vault 100 firms in my direct experience hire almost exclusively t13 kids, usually HYS, that have ties to the area. I cannot speak to "midlaw", other than almost everyone out of my group from Duke/UVA who interviewed with those relevant "midlaw" firms got offers. I was speaking to the V100 firms more exclusively.


Anon, respectfully what you consider "biglaw" and what actually is biglaw are two very different things. The Vault 100 firms are not the only biglaw firms. Your definition is not the one commonly used.

Anonymous User wrote:To OP:

Went to law school at FSU/UF. Did well... Had no chance at DC/NY market. This is with family friends in DC trying to help me out.

Have family friend (associate) at Covingon in DC. Have another family friend (associate) at Sidley in DC. They lobbied intensely on my behalf. Nothing happened. If you strike out at Florida, please do not expect to use DC and NY as backups. Your resume (sans connection/family friend (hiring partner) who will vouch for you and who has (LEGITIMATE pull ie hiring partner) will be thrown into the trash even if you are top 3 UF/FSU.

DC/NYU has the entire t14 filling everything out. In Florida, FSU/UF are respected. Go to DC/NYU and we are seen as football schools and nothing more.

At UF/FSU, if you strike out Florida Big Law (as small as it is), please do not expect to use DC/NY as back-ups. This will only lead to disappointment. I know. I experienced it.

longlivewho wrote:Previous poster here.

OP is top 5%. Off the top of my head, FSU usually has 200 1Ls UF usually has 250 1Ls. Top 5% at FSU is 10/200. Top 10% at UF is 25.

I'd be willing to estimate he's not top 1% at either UF or FSU or he/she would have posted top 1%.

I was 6th overall in my class at UF/FSU. These people in the DC don't care. End of the day I still went to FSU/UF. You have to understand that the Florida legal market is BAD.

The PD/SAO pay is terrible (40k) starting and the agencies are all up in North Florida where no-one wants to live. Every year there are new graduates and who knows how many hiring partners at these top law firms have kids that go to Barry/Nova/Coastal/Stetson and will just hire them anyway.


I'm sorry to hear about your struggles. It would make some sense if you went to FSU. For whatever reason, FSU struggles with biglaw. However, speaking as someone who was ranked right around where you were (but at UF), I can say that I did not have the same experience. I had interviews in both DC and NY (including a handful of V10 firms). I ended up accepting an offer with a FL biglaw firm. I know of classmates/friends who also had interviews in DC and NY, and some are currently working there.

It's not easy, though. OP needs to massmail broadly because there aren't plenty that won't give you a shot. And if OP isn't one of the top handful of students in his/her class, he/she might not get any DC or NY interviews.

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Re: 2L Florida Big Law Help!

Postby Anonymous User » Thu Jun 14, 2018 9:11 am

wwwcol wrote:Surprised to see Akerman mentioned favorably. Every time I’ve seen them recently, they’re litigating a trash case (often poorly and often plaintiff’s side, oddly enough). Some of the same causes of action that Morgan and Morgan targets.


The firm is different from most. It has a team called “consumer financial services,” which is the work you mentioned above. It’s glorified shitlaw. But the other parts of the firm are like any typical regional biglaw firm.

I’m not trying to defend the firm, but you clearly are only focusing on the bad cases. It has had very large, complex cases (dealt by the actual litigation team).

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Re: 2L Florida Big Law Help!

Postby Anonymous User » Thu Jun 14, 2018 9:26 am

So if I'm top 10-15 people at UF is it a waste of time to apply to NY/DC if I don't have any connections. I have some pretty decent softs (TA, RA, and other leadership stuff).

lavarman84

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Re: 2L Florida Big Law Help!

Postby lavarman84 » Thu Jun 14, 2018 11:09 pm

Anonymous User wrote:So if I'm top 10-15 people at UF is it a waste of time to apply to NY/DC if I don't have any connections. I have some pretty decent softs (TA, RA, and other leadership stuff).


No. You may not get anything, but what's the harm in applying?



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