Duke OCI 2018

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Re: Duke OCI 2018

Postby Anonymous User » Thu Jul 19, 2018 9:11 am

Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:I got 19. Crap I thought I made such a good bid list. :(

In part, I think my selection is due to my GPA limitations. I had less freedom and avoided mega GPA firms.

19 is really good. I think most people get around 15.


Oh - thanks!


I would HIGHLY recommend picking up more interviews if you are at 20 or less, especially if you bid some markets outside of big NYC firms. Take it from an alum who saw plenty of people strike out thinking above median and 15 slots are sufficient.

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Re: Duke OCI 2018

Postby Anonymous User » Thu Jul 19, 2018 9:28 am

being above median and striking out with 15 screeners? something tells me that a) they bid like a dumbass; b) they’re a garbage interviewer; or c) this was in a worse economy

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Re: Duke OCI 2018

Postby Anonymous User » Thu Jul 19, 2018 9:44 am

Anonymous User wrote:being above median and striking out with 15 screeners? something tells me that a) they bid like a dumbass; b) they’re a garbage interviewer; or c) this was in a worse economy


Above alum. This was in the past few years, before summer classes have been shrinking significantly recently. My oci was before the last year or two where summer classes are down 25% across the board in size. So it was a better economy.

You don’t need to listen, I’m just telling you direct experience that 15 is not enough unless you only bid big nyc firms and are top 25%. For most people, they probably have 10 nyc and 5-10 dc or insert other market here. Those people need to pick up interviews.

In my totally acedontal experience in a better economy, the sweet spot was probably 25 to make sure you had at least 1 offer. If you were bidding dc, you needed 30+ and most people still struck out. If I was in your shoes as a general matter with 15-20 interviews, I would maximize and pick up as many nyc slots you can and round it out with some more from another market you have ties too. Take it for what you will.

Edit: and I’ll add that at the end of the day, offers will be concentrated. During my oci, about 40% of the people participating had like 75% of the offers. Aka you will have a group of people with 15 offers and you will have a larger portion of people who get 1-2 offers or strike out. The people with 15 offers are in the minority but they will be the most vocal. It happens every year. But the majority of the class will be working hard to secure 1-2. So don’t freat if you aren’t a person with 10 callbacks in the first few days. That’s why I suggest picking up more interviews because the callbacks and offers tend to get really concentrated amongst the same smaller group of people.

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Re: Duke OCI 2018

Postby Anonymous User » Thu Jul 19, 2018 10:05 am

Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:being above median and striking out with 15 screeners? something tells me that a) they bid like a dumbass; b) they’re a garbage interviewer; or c) this was in a worse economy


Above alum. This was in the past few years, before summer classes have been shrinking significantly recently. My oci was before the last year or two where summer classes are down 25% across the board in size. So it was a better economy.

You don’t need to listen, I’m just telling you direct experience that 15 is not enough unless you only bid big nyc firms and are top 25%. For most people, they probably have 10 nyc and 5-10 dc or insert other market here. Those people need to pick up interviews.

In my totally acedontal experience in a better economy, the sweet spot was probably 25 to make sure you had at least 1 offer. If you were bidding dc, you needed 30+ and most people still struck out. If I was in your shoes as a general matter with 15-20 interviews, I would maximize and pick up as many nyc slots you can and round it out with some more from another market you have ties too. Take it for what you will.

Edit: and I’ll add that at the end of the day, offers will be concentrated. During my oci, about 40% of the people participating had like 75% of the offers. Aka you will have a group of people with 15 offers and you will have a larger portion of people who get 1-2 offers or strike out. The people with 15 offers are in the minority but they will be the most vocal. It happens every year. But the majority of the class will be working hard to secure 1-2. So don’t freat if you aren’t a person with 10 callbacks in the first few days. That’s why I suggest picking up more interviews because the callbacks and offers tend to get really concentrated amongst the same smaller group of people.


This is way overblown. Duke has the best BL + FC numbers for a reason. 60% of people are NOT striking out or with 1-2 offers. At MOST it's 30% (that's even far too high) - and even a third of those people will wind up getting Biglaw. The difference is that a lot of people just have to be safe and go to NY. And that's just how it is.

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Re: Duke OCI 2018

Postby Anonymous User » Thu Jul 19, 2018 10:15 am

Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:being above median and striking out with 15 screeners? something tells me that a) they bid like a dumbass; b) they’re a garbage interviewer; or c) this was in a worse economy


Above alum. This was in the past few years, before summer classes have been shrinking significantly recently. My oci was before the last year or two where summer classes are down 25% across the board in size. So it was a better economy.

You don’t need to listen, I’m just telling you direct experience that 15 is not enough unless you only bid big nyc firms and are top 25%. For most people, they probably have 10 nyc and 5-10 dc or insert other market here. Those people need to pick up interviews.

In my totally acedontal experience in a better economy, the sweet spot was probably 25 to make sure you had at least 1 offer. If you were bidding dc, you needed 30+ and most people still struck out. If I was in your shoes as a general matter with 15-20 interviews, I would maximize and pick up as many nyc slots you can and round it out with some more from another market you have ties too. Take it for what you will.

Edit: and I’ll add that at the end of the day, offers will be concentrated. During my oci, about 40% of the people participating had like 75% of the offers. Aka you will have a group of people with 15 offers and you will have a larger portion of people who get 1-2 offers or strike out. The people with 15 offers are in the minority but they will be the most vocal. It happens every year. But the majority of the class will be working hard to secure 1-2. So don’t freat if you aren’t a person with 10 callbacks in the first few days. That’s why I suggest picking up more interviews because the callbacks and offers tend to get really concentrated amongst the same smaller group of people.


This is way overblown. Duke has the best BL + FC numbers for a reason. 60% of people are NOT striking out or with 1-2 offers. At MOST it's 30% (that's even far too high) - and even a third of those people will wind up getting Biglaw. The difference is that a lot of people just have to be safe and go to NY. And that's just how it is.


Listen, I was just giving fair warning as an alum and now OCI interviewer.

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Re: Duke OCI 2018

Postby Anonymous User » Thu Jul 19, 2018 11:34 am

Duke Alum. I basically failed OCI but did really well in my local market (south). Just don't limit yourself, sometimes all you need is one good yes! :D

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Re: Duke OCI 2018

Postby Anonymous User » Fri Jul 20, 2018 11:04 am

Anonymous User wrote:This is way overblown. Duke has the best BL + FC numbers for a reason. 60% of people are NOT striking out or with 1-2 offers. At MOST it's 30% (that's even far too high) - and even a third of those people will wind up getting Biglaw. The difference is that a lot of people just have to be safe and go to NY. And that's just how it is.


I think you would be surprised how many people end up getting biglaw because they took the only offer they got (or chose between just two offers). The number of people who are choosing between four or more offers is not that big, especially outside of New York. Part of that is people cancelling callbacks when they get offers that are better than the CB firm but part of it is it's more of a needle thread than you might expect unless you are sitting on a 3.8 GPA.

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Re: Duke OCI 2018

Postby Anonymous User » Fri Jul 20, 2018 6:20 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:being above median and striking out with 15 screeners? something tells me that a) they bid like a dumbass; b) they’re a garbage interviewer; or c) this was in a worse economy


Above alum. This was in the past few years, before summer classes have been shrinking significantly recently. My oci was before the last year or two where summer classes are down 25% across the board in size. So it was a better economy.

You don’t need to listen, I’m just telling you direct experience that 15 is not enough unless you only bid big nyc firms and are top 25%. For most people, they probably have 10 nyc and 5-10 dc or insert other market here. Those people need to pick up interviews.

In my totally acedontal experience in a better economy, the sweet spot was probably 25 to make sure you had at least 1 offer. If you were bidding dc, you needed 30+ and most people still struck out. If I was in your shoes as a general matter with 15-20 interviews, I would maximize and pick up as many nyc slots you can and round it out with some more from another market you have ties too. Take it for what you will.

Edit: and I’ll add that at the end of the day, offers will be concentrated. During my oci, about 40% of the people participating had like 75% of the offers. Aka you will have a group of people with 15 offers and you will have a larger portion of people who get 1-2 offers or strike out. The people with 15 offers are in the minority but they will be the most vocal. It happens every year. But the majority of the class will be working hard to secure 1-2. So don’t freat if you aren’t a person with 10 callbacks in the first few days. That’s why I suggest picking up more interviews because the callbacks and offers tend to get really concentrated amongst the same smaller group of people.


This is way overblown. Duke has the best BL + FC numbers for a reason. 60% of people are NOT striking out or with 1-2 offers. At MOST it's 30% (that's even far too high) - and even a third of those people will wind up getting Biglaw. The difference is that a lot of people just have to be safe and go to NY. And that's just how it is.


3L here. Offers last year went down 20%. You can be at median, bid only New York, strike out, and find yourself fighting from behind the rest of law school. Mass mail now and do not put yourself in that situation because New York is by no means a guarantee. Take as many screeners as possible.

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Re: Duke OCI 2018

Postby Anonymous User » Fri Jul 20, 2018 6:32 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:being above median and striking out with 15 screeners? something tells me that a) they bid like a dumbass; b) they’re a garbage interviewer; or c) this was in a worse economy


Above alum. This was in the past few years, before summer classes have been shrinking significantly recently. My oci was before the last year or two where summer classes are down 25% across the board in size. So it was a better economy.

You don’t need to listen, I’m just telling you direct experience that 15 is not enough unless you only bid big nyc firms and are top 25%. For most people, they probably have 10 nyc and 5-10 dc or insert other market here. Those people need to pick up interviews.

In my totally acedontal experience in a better economy, the sweet spot was probably 25 to make sure you had at least 1 offer. If you were bidding dc, you needed 30+ and most people still struck out. If I was in your shoes as a general matter with 15-20 interviews, I would maximize and pick up as many nyc slots you can and round it out with some more from another market you have ties too. Take it for what you will.

Edit: and I’ll add that at the end of the day, offers will be concentrated. During my oci, about 40% of the people participating had like 75% of the offers. Aka you will have a group of people with 15 offers and you will have a larger portion of people who get 1-2 offers or strike out. The people with 15 offers are in the minority but they will be the most vocal. It happens every year. But the majority of the class will be working hard to secure 1-2. So don’t freat if you aren’t a person with 10 callbacks in the first few days. That’s why I suggest picking up more interviews because the callbacks and offers tend to get really concentrated amongst the same smaller group of people.


This is way overblown. Duke has the best BL + FC numbers for a reason. 60% of people are NOT striking out or with 1-2 offers. At MOST it's 30% (that's even far too high) - and even a third of those people will wind up getting Biglaw. The difference is that a lot of people just have to be safe and go to NY. And that's just how it is.


3L here. Offers last year went down 20%. You can be at median, bid only New York, strike out, and find yourself fighting from behind the rest of law school. Mass mail now and do not put yourself in that situation because New York is by no means a guarantee. Take as many screeners as possible.


Former alum now interviewer here. This proves my point. Summer classes are down 25% across the board. Go look at the ABA data. My firm is much more selective now because we have cut summer class sizes significantly. Take that plus the fact that a significant chunk of the offers will be held by a slim minority of the class, you ought to pick up as many interviews as possible. 30 is a good benchmark.

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Re: Duke OCI 2018

Postby Anonymous User » Fri Jul 20, 2018 6:50 pm

As someone below median, I am now depressed, especially since the attorneys I hang out with this summer at my government internship cheer me on (if only they knew my grades).

:(

So much for non-NYC. So much for any job at all in any city.

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Re: Duke OCI 2018

Postby Anonymous User » Fri Jul 20, 2018 6:55 pm

Anonymous User wrote:As someone below median, I am now depressed, especially since the attorneys I hang out with this summer at my government internship cheer me on (if only they knew my grades).

:(

So much for non-NYC. So much for any job at all in any city.


Interviewer here. Lets be real for a second- you weren't getting a non-NYC job with those grades. But you can still get a NYC job. You need to mass mail and then interview until your voice gives out. Make sure you have literally as many interviews at OCI as possible. Mass mail all the firms you didn't get an interview with. But those things need to be done now.

You need to hustle. The people at/below median who get biglaw are the ones that hustle. If you think by going to oci with 21 interviews that you will magically pull an offer out of your hat, you are mistaken. You might do really well, but its just as likely you will strike out. So change the attitude, realize you are in a tough spot, and get to work.

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Re: Duke OCI 2018

Postby Anonymous User » Fri Jul 20, 2018 7:01 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:As someone below median, I am now depressed, especially since the attorneys I hang out with this summer at my government internship cheer me on (if only they knew my grades).

:(

So much for non-NYC. So much for any job at all in any city.


Interviewer here. Lets be real for a second- you weren't getting a non-NYC job with those grades. But you can still get a NYC job. You need to mass mail and then interview until your voice gives out. Make sure you have literally as many interviews at OCI as possible. Mass mail all the firms you didn't get an interview with. But those things need to be done now.

You need to hustle. The people at/below median who get biglaw are the ones that hustle. If you think by going to oci with 21 interviews that you will magically pull an offer out of your hat, you are mistaken. You might do really well, but its just as likely you will strike out. So change the attitude, realize you are in a tough spot, and get to work.


I worked my butt off to get into a top school, and I got a good internship. My family is rooting for me. I was rooting for me.

Now I realize I suck. Well I guess I'll just keep mass-mailing and see what happens.

I have (currently being scheduled) pre-OCI interview new week with a second big firm in DC. This was after getting coffee with a partner. I guess that's something.

Anyway thanks for responding.

I am a disappointment to myself and my family. I went to law school for the opportunity to be a miserable suit at a big firm. Without that, I have a fancy degree and no "in" to the market.

The worst part of all of this is students with high grades walking around firms like they own the place, or at least don't understand my struggle. I don't even care about prestige. I just want a big firm job somewhere okay that pays close to market. I feel like an imposter.

*commence banging head against a wall*

xtremenite

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Re: Duke OCI 2018

Postby xtremenite » Fri Jul 20, 2018 7:06 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:As someone below median, I am now depressed, especially since the attorneys I hang out with this summer at my government internship cheer me on (if only they knew my grades).

:(

So much for non-NYC. So much for any job at all in any city.


Interviewer here. Lets be real for a second- you weren't getting a non-NYC job with those grades. But you can still get a NYC job. You need to mass mail and then interview until your voice gives out. Make sure you have literally as many interviews at OCI as possible. Mass mail all the firms you didn't get an interview with. But those things need to be done now.

You need to hustle. The people at/below median who get biglaw are the ones that hustle. If you think by going to oci with 21 interviews that you will magically pull an offer out of your hat, you are mistaken. You might do really well, but its just as likely you will strike out. So change the attitude, realize you are in a tough spot, and get to work.


I worked my butt off to get into a top school, and I got a good internship. My family is rooting for me. I was rooting for me.

Now I realize I suck. Well I guess I'll just keep mass-mailing and see what happens.

I have (currently being scheduled) pre-OCI interview new week with a second big firm in DC. This was after getting coffee with a partner. I guess that's something.

Anyway thanks for responding.

I am a disappointment to myself and my family. I went to law school for the opportunity to be a miserable suit at a big firm. Without that, I have a fancy degree and no "in" to the market.

The worst part of all of this is students with high grades walking around firms like they own the place, or at least don't understand my struggle. I don't even care about prestige. I just want a big firm job somewhere okay that pays close to market. I feel like an imposter.

*commence banging head against a wall*


PM me. I'm also in DC this Summer - let's talk about strategy.

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Re: Duke OCI 2018

Postby Anonymous User » Fri Jul 20, 2018 7:27 pm

Anonymous User wrote:Where's everyone bidding/hoping for?

I'm split on TX/DC/NY


I'm hoping for anywhere, but if I had to choose, DC/GA. My grades suck, so whatever everything sucks for me now.

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Re: Duke OCI 2018

Postby Anonymous User » Fri Jul 20, 2018 7:58 pm

so Duke had their best employment numbers while summer class sizes were shrinking?

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Re: Duke OCI 2018

Postby Anonymous User » Sat Jul 21, 2018 1:26 pm

Anonymous User wrote:so Duke had their best employment numbers while summer class sizes were shrinking?


This doom and gloom is baffling to me (2017 grad). Everything I've heard from last year's OCI is that it was easy as shit to get a job. 2019 people with 3.2s got V10 firms that would have never considered them during OCI my year. The economy is doing really well -- please don't scare 2Ls with this. Yeah, you might not get D.C., but not terrible grades at Duke will get you New York big law if you're not super awkward. It's not 2011 anymore.

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Re: Duke OCI 2018

Postby Anonymous User » Sat Jul 21, 2018 1:43 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:so Duke had their best employment numbers while summer class sizes were shrinking?


This doom and gloom is baffling to me (2017 grad). Everything I've heard from last year's OCI is that it was easy as shit to get a job. 2019 people with 3.2s got V10 firms that would have never considered them during OCI my year. The economy is doing really well -- please don't scare 2Ls with this. Yeah, you might not get D.C., but not terrible grades at Duke will get you New York big law if you're not super awkward. It's not 2011 anymore.


Well 2017 grad, I'm sure you have seen the ABA data that shows over 1/4th of the total summer associate jobs that were available to you no longer exist. It started last year. My firm directly cut over 50% of the summer class last summer and reduced it further this year. All of which was not happening when you were doing OCI back in 2015.

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Re: Duke OCI 2018

Postby Anonymous User » Sat Jul 21, 2018 4:45 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:so Duke had their best employment numbers while summer class sizes were shrinking?


This doom and gloom is baffling to me (2017 grad). Everything I've heard from last year's OCI is that it was easy as shit to get a job. 2019 people with 3.2s got V10 firms that would have never considered them during OCI my year. The economy is doing really well -- please don't scare 2Ls with this. Yeah, you might not get D.C., but not terrible grades at Duke will get you New York big law if you're not super awkward. It's not 2011 anymore.


Well 2017 grad, I'm sure you have seen the ABA data that shows over 1/4th of the total summer associate jobs that were available to you no longer exist. It started last year. My firm directly cut over 50% of the summer class last summer and reduced it further this year. All of which was not happening when you were doing OCI back in 2015.


Can you link?

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Re: Duke OCI 2018

Postby Anonymous User » Sat Jul 21, 2018 6:08 pm

kinda surprised at how nonselective Kirkland is at Duke. I’ve had friends at peer schools tell me they’re much more selective there.

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Re: Duke OCI 2018

Postby Anonymous User » Sat Jul 21, 2018 6:59 pm

To my knowledge, NALP (not the ABA) is the entity that conducts research into entry-level law firm hiring. Their takeaway on the 2017 recruiting cycle is that it did not materially differ from the ‘15 and ‘16 cycles. The report below shows virtually identical numbers of SAs and offer conversion rates, with what they identify as generally flat numbers year over year.

https://www.nalp.org/uploads/Perspectiv ... elease.pdf

It is solid advice not to rely exclusively on OCI, but to act like recruiting has been a bloodbath is plainly incorrect.

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Re: Duke OCI 2018

Postby Anonymous User » Sat Jul 21, 2018 7:31 pm

Anonymous User wrote:kinda surprised at how nonselective Kirkland is at Duke. I’ve had friends at peer schools tell me they’re much more selective there.


Well, it differs by city a lot. Compare NY and DC.

I agree NY is oddly low GPA.

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Re: Duke OCI 2018

Postby Anonymous User » Sat Jul 21, 2018 8:08 pm

Anonymous User wrote:kinda surprised at how nonselective Kirkland is at Duke. I’ve had friends at peer schools tell me they’re much more selective there.

We're peers?! :P

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Re: Duke OCI 2018

Postby Anonymous User » Sun Jul 22, 2018 1:27 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:so Duke had their best employment numbers while summer class sizes were shrinking?


This doom and gloom is baffling to me (2017 grad). Everything I've heard from last year's OCI is that it was easy as shit to get a job. 2019 people with 3.2s got V10 firms that would have never considered them during OCI my year. The economy is doing really well -- please don't scare 2Ls with this. Yeah, you might not get D.C., but not terrible grades at Duke will get you New York big law if you're not super awkward. It's not 2011 anymore.


3L who went through OCI last year. As someone who has been told by career services that I am a good interviewer, bid exclusively New York, and was around the grade range you described, I struck out. I know a number of classmates that likewise struck out with better grades who are all very outgoing, social people. You don't think it's going to happen to you until it does. So just limiting that pool to people who are "super awkward" is incredibly ignorant and honestly kind of insulting.

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Re: Duke OCI 2018

Postby Anonymous User » Sun Jul 22, 2018 1:51 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:so Duke had their best employment numbers while summer class sizes were shrinking?


This doom and gloom is baffling to me (2017 grad). Everything I've heard from last year's OCI is that it was easy as shit to get a job. 2019 people with 3.2s got V10 firms that would have never considered them during OCI my year. The economy is doing really well -- please don't scare 2Ls with this. Yeah, you might not get D.C., but not terrible grades at Duke will get you New York big law if you're not super awkward. It's not 2011 anymore.


3L who went through OCI last year. As someone who has been told by career services that I am a good interviewer, bid exclusively New York, and was around the grade range you described, I struck out. I know a number of classmates that likewise struck out with better grades who are all very outgoing, social people. You don't think it's going to happen to you until it does. So just limiting that pool to people who are "super awkward" is incredibly ignorant and honestly kind of insulting.

“bid exclusively NYC” — this could mean you bid 1 NYC firm. how many did you interview with?

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Re: Duke OCI 2018

Postby Anonymous User » Sun Jul 22, 2018 3:28 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:so Duke had their best employment numbers while summer class sizes were shrinking?


This doom and gloom is baffling to me (2017 grad). Everything I've heard from last year's OCI is that it was easy as shit to get a job. 2019 people with 3.2s got V10 firms that would have never considered them during OCI my year. The economy is doing really well -- please don't scare 2Ls with this. Yeah, you might not get D.C., but not terrible grades at Duke will get you New York big law if you're not super awkward. It's not 2011 anymore.


3L who went through OCI last year. As someone who has been told by career services that I am a good interviewer, bid exclusively New York, and was around the grade range you described, I struck out. I know a number of classmates that likewise struck out with better grades who are all very outgoing, social people. You don't think it's going to happen to you until it does. So just limiting that pool to people who are "super awkward" is incredibly ignorant and honestly kind of insulting.

“bid exclusively NYC” — this could mean you bid 1 NYC firm. how many did you interview with?


obviously he means he used all of his bid slots on NYC firms. is there a single big law-seeking student who bids 1 firm? "how many did you interview with?" is a separate question.



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